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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:47 am
  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    ImTheScientist wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Interesting world you live in where 19.1 is faster than 19.9. :roll:


    That’s week by week. Weeks 1-6 listed. I would imagine playing surface/conditions have an impact on speed.... Cool that Penny was the fastest this week on what was an extremely slow track.


    When it comes to RB position, the runner would need to break a run into open field to hit full speed, and that doesn't happen every game for all RB's getting touches. Evidence of that can be seen in week 2 and 4.


    If you feel he wasn’t the fastest ball carrier week 6 let me know and I can help explain via PM.


    Keep up the pretentious dick comments like that and I'm sure you'll gain even more support for your agenda here.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:51 am
  • Penny, I think, has a knack for being a real screen weapon. That's how a lot of his yards have come. He strikes me as a guy who really needs a full head of steam to get going, at least for now. Too much dancing behind the line at the moment, and that's a legit knock regardless of his YPC. He's boom-or-bust.

    Now, you want that on your team, still, and you also want insurance for when one of your RB's has an injury history and the other is Mike Davis.

    Whether a first-round pick is too steep a price for what I just described - that's a legitimate question. I personally am not worried about it. But I can understand that a few people are.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:29 am


  • Any candidate for "best RB" needs to be able to break tackles. You can't just run him on stretches and avoid up-the-gut the entire game. Penny is the clear #3 in that regard...at the moment.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:47 am
  • Is the orange RBc mean yards after contact?

    If so that proves what myself and a few others have noticed. Penny not fighting through tackles much at all.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:28 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:

    Any candidate for "best RB" needs to be able to break tackles. You can't just run him on stretches and avoid up-the-gut the entire game. Penny is the clear #3 in that regard...at the moment.


    Agreed. That graph corresponds with the eye test as well. Thanks for that Montana.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:30 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:I see a fast, quick twitch guy who can change directions with slight jukes. Also has really great hands. He’s a guy who’s going to get 120 yards a game and you’d never notice

    His main flaw is that the game is too fast for him. Unfortunately, we live in a microscopic, over reactionary hot take media culture that writes players off early and then eats crow when no one listens to them. Many times on this forum and elsewhere I’ve seen people flat out give up on players only to play dumb later. Stop with the Hot Take bullshit and just give a young player time to grow
    .

    You're exactly right; With Carson & Davis kicking ass right now, no one should expect a less experienced Rookie RB to be taking plays away from them.
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Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:14 pm
  • He missed the last three preseason games of his rookie year. As a result, the first three real games essentially were his preseason, except the other team was now playing for real.

    He wasn’t very good those three games. Our o-line was also pretty bad in the first two games. In the two games since then (in which he’s had carries), he’s averaged 5.4 and 4.8 yards a carry.

    Can we just be happy that we very well may have a three-headed monster at the RB position?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:19 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:Can we just be happy that we very well may have a three-headed monster at the RB position?

    Some of us are. :mrgreen:
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:18 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:He missed the last three preseason games of his rookie year. As a result, the first three real games essentially were his preseason, except the other team was now playing for real.

    He wasn’t very good those three games. Our o-line was also pretty bad in the first two games. In the two games since then (in which he’s had carries), he’s averaged 5.4 and 4.8 yards a carry.

    Can we just be happy that we very well may have a three-headed monster at the RB position?

    I don't understand why people keep using this argument to defend him. BUT HE MISSED PRESEASON GAMES! It's a bad argument. Running back is one of the most instinctual positions in the NFL. You can still study the playbook, and run basic drills with a broken finger in training camp. You also are able to study the playbook, and get a good idea of what you're supposed to do even while injured. When we traded for Marshawn Lynch in 2010 the moment he got on the field he was a clear upgrade from what we had. He didn't have any time to learn the playbook, he just jumped in and produced. He turned clear losses into short gains, and even though stats may not show it he was a difference maker and everyone here could see it.

    Penny is just not that great of a running back. For a back lauded for having great vision he shows a ton of hesitation, and seems to have a hard time finding creases. He is able to run through gaping holes, but even Trent Richardson could find those from time to time. He doesn't really offer much as far as creating yards. Has a hard time making the first tackler miss, and goes down very easily, too easily. His only real value right now are his soft hands, and the fact that he is coming along as a pass blocker. Essentially a third down back. That is all fine and good, but you don't take third down backs and role players with first round picks. I think that is all Penny is ever going to be, and amount to. He just doesn't have the instincts or chops to be a top tier NFL running back. You can criticize me now, but I'm confident time will prove me to be correct on this matter.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:51 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:He missed the last three preseason games of his rookie year. As a result, the first three real games essentially were his preseason, except the other team was now playing for real.

    He wasn’t very good those three games. Our o-line was also pretty bad in the first two games. In the two games since then (in which he’s had carries), he’s averaged 5.4 and 4.8 yards a carry.

    Can we just be happy that we very well may have a three-headed monster at the RB position?

    I don't understand why people keep using this argument to defend him. BUT HE MISSED PRESEASON GAMES! It's a bad argument. Running back is one of the most instinctual positions in the NFL. You can still study the playbook, and run basic drills with a broken finger in training camp. You also are able to study the playbook, and get a good idea of what you're supposed to do even while injured. When we traded for Marshawn Lynch in 2010 the moment he got on the field he was a clear upgrade from what we had. He didn't have any time to learn the playbook, he just jumped in and produced. He turned clear losses into short gains, and even though stats may not show it he was a difference maker and everyone here could see it.

    Penny is just not that great of a running back. For a back lauded for having great vision he shows a ton of hesitation, and seems to have a hard time finding creases. He is able to run through gaping holes, but even Trent Richardson could find those from time to time. He doesn't really offer much as far as creating yards. Has a hard time making the first tackler miss, and goes down very easily, too easily. His only real value right now are his soft hands, and the fact that he is coming along as a pass blocker. Essentially a third down back. That is all fine and good, but you don't take third down backs and role players with first round picks. I think that is all Penny is ever going to be, and amount to. He just doesn't have the instincts or chops to be a top tier NFL running back. You can criticize me now, but I'm confident time will prove me to be correct on this matter.


    Alexander could not make his own holes, I would argue Dickerson the same way, both had great lines and had huge gaps to run thru most times, Shaun had a great ability to follow a block and slide to a open crease on the goal line however.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:44 pm
  • Rookies need preseason to adjust to blocking schemes and the speed of the NFL. I don’t care what position they play, there’s an adjustment.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:58 pm
  • Ok what do RBC & OLC stand for in the chart?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:50 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:He missed the last three preseason games of his rookie year. As a result, the first three real games essentially were his preseason, except the other team was now playing for real.

    He wasn’t very good those three games. Our o-line was also pretty bad in the first two games. In the two games since then (in which he’s had carries), he’s averaged 5.4 and 4.8 yards a carry.

    Can we just be happy that we very well may have a three-headed monster at the RB position?

    I don't understand why people keep using this argument to defend him. BUT HE MISSED PRESEASON GAMES! It's a bad argument. Running back is one of the most instinctual positions in the NFL. You can still study the playbook, and run basic drills with a broken finger in training camp. You also are able to study the playbook, and get a good idea of what you're supposed to do even while injured. When we traded for Marshawn Lynch in 2010 the moment he got on the field he was a clear upgrade from what we had. He didn't have any time to learn the playbook, he just jumped in and produced. He turned clear losses into short gains, and even though stats may not show it he was a difference maker and everyone here could see it.

    Penny is just not that great of a running back. For a back lauded for having great vision he shows a ton of hesitation, and seems to have a hard time finding creases. He is able to run through gaping holes, but even Trent Richardson could find those from time to time. He doesn't really offer much as far as creating yards. Has a hard time making the first tackler miss, and goes down very easily, too easily. His only real value right now are his soft hands, and the fact that he is coming along as a pass blocker. Essentially a third down back. That is all fine and good, but you don't take third down backs and role players with first round picks. I think that is all Penny is ever going to be, and amount to. He just doesn't have the instincts or chops to be a top tier NFL running back. You can criticize me now, but I'm confident time will prove me to be correct on this matter.


    Alexander could not make his own holes, I would argue Dickerson the same way, both had great lines and had huge gaps to run thru most times, Shaun had a great ability to follow a block and slide to a open crease on the goal line however.

    Alexander could not make his own holes, I would argue Dickerson the same way, both had great lines and had huge gaps to run thru most times, Shaun had a great ability to follow a block and slide to a open crease on the goal line however.[/quote]
    I'm not talking about "making your own holes". I'm talking about being able to take a crease and go for it. Alexander was able to do that. Alexander was also very hard to tackle. He made business decisions, but he was near impossible to get a hand on at the LOS in his prime. When he needed to be he could run tough as well. Short yardage situations, and at the goal line he was money. He also had impeccable balance, and he was a patient runner, but never indecisive. I don't see Penny as being the same type of guy as Alexander or Dickerson.

    Penny's issues are one, he doesn't have the same kind of football speed, and subtle acceleration as Alexander. I think he can get there, but I think he needs to be playing at his combine weight. Right now he is significantly heavier than he was at the combine and the NFL Senior Bowl. That part he can fix with some good ol' fashion sweat. He has the potential in this regard.

    The bigger issue with Penny is he needs to commit faster. There is a subtle line between being a patient runner, and being a indecisive runner. That one second delay is what determines whether you go for 20 or 2 yards. Some runners get this, others never adjust to the speed of the NFL. This is what separated Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson in the NFL. Ingram struggled for his first few years, some up some down. After year two something finally clicked and he started getting it. Trent Richardson never was able to adjust to the speed of the NFL. He was lost since day one. This is an example of a running back being tentative, and never getting the pace and tempo of the NFL. Some guys never get this, and ultimately I think this will be Penny.

    The next problem with Penny is he lacks the ability to make the first defender miss. Shaun Alexander was very good at doing this. He was surprisingly elusive, especially in traffic. In the NFL a running back either needs to be able to make the first guy miss, or run through contact. Penny has not shown a knack for either. This is right here can be the difference between a loss and four yards, 10 yards or 20 yards, etc. This is the skill that separates the pretenders from the elite. Shaun sure as hell wouldn't run through people but he could almost always make the first defender miss. He was also very good at setting his blockers up. What Shaun Alexander was able to do at the LOS defined him as a runner. If Penny wants success with his style this is the runner to watch.

    The last thing with Penny that I want to touch on his balance. He struggle with this, and it is part of the reason why he gets taken down so easily. He doesn't seem to have good balance when he runs. If he doesn't correct this he will always be taken down by really simple things.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:57 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:He missed the last three preseason games of his rookie year. As a result, the first three real games essentially were his preseason, except the other team was now playing for real.

    He wasn’t very good those three games. Our o-line was also pretty bad in the first two games. In the two games since then (in which he’s had carries), he’s averaged 5.4 and 4.8 yards a carry.

    Can we just be happy that we very well may have a three-headed monster at the RB position?
    i sure am,


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