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Wilson hasn't progressed as I had anticipated

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  • He seems to have plateaued. It's the same old shat over and over. Play like trash for two or three quarters, switch it up to the two minute offense at some point giving us a chance to win with no margin for error, and either pull off an amazing win, or go down in flames.....

    It's odd. Now at nearly 30 he doesn't have the wheels like he did at one time to get out of trouble. I'm really disappointed he hasn't taken steps to become a dynamic pocket passer.

    Looked real bad against a mediocre Bears team. I hope we don't pay him Rodgers money.
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  • What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?
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  • What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?
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    Fade
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  • Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?
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  • King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I want your opinion.
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  • I want yours
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  • King Dog wrote:He seems to have plateaued. It's the same old shat over and over. Play like trash for two or three quarters, switch it up to the two minute offense at some point giving us a chance to win with no margin for error, and either pull off an amazing win, or go down in flames.....

    It's odd. Now at nearly 30 he doesn't have the wheels like he did at one time to get out of trouble. I'm really disappointed he hasn't taken steps to become a dynamic pocket passer.

    Looked real bad against a mediocre Bears team. I hope we don't pay him Rodgers money.


    Who says the Bears are "mediocre"? They had the Packers beat at Lambeau in Week 1. They are much improved.

    Defense is legit.
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  • I do
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  • King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I’m not a coach so my opinion might be stupid, but I think the coaching staff is holding him back.

    When we’re behind, this is when I believe that in the 4th he goes off script and plays with urgency.

    Why don’t we play with urgency all the time? I don’t get it. Let Russ run the offense, what the hell do we have to lose anyways.

    We’re 0-2. Either the coaching staff gets their head out of their ass or you need to let Russ do his thing.
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  • King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    Wilson thrives in hurry up. He does great in chaos.

    The two most successful drives he had last night was in hurry up.
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  • Decimation wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I’m not a coach so my opinion might be stupid, but I think the coaching staff is holding him back.

    When we’re behind, this is when I believe that in the 4th he goes off script and plays with urgency.

    Why don’t we play with urgency all the time? I don’t get it. Let Russ run the offense, what the hell do we have to lose anyways.

    We’re 0-2. Either the coaching staff gets their head out of their ass or you need to let Russ do his thing.


    You are spot on. We are 0-2 because of stubbornness on our play calling. I don't know if Norton told Pete to piss off and let me call my game but the stunts and blitzes he was running was stuff I hadn't seen since Quinn. Maybe our OC needs to grow a pair and step up to PC because it isn't like he will fire you if you succeed. Schotty needs to be agressive and Pete needs to BTFO.
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  • seahawkfreak wrote:
    Decimation wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I’m not a coach so my opinion might be stupid, but I think the coaching staff is holding him back.

    When we’re behind, this is when I believe that in the 4th he goes off script and plays with urgency.

    Why don’t we play with urgency all the time? I don’t get it. Let Russ run the offense, what the hell do we have to lose anyways.

    We’re 0-2. Either the coaching staff gets their head out of their ass or you need to let Russ do his thing.


    You are spot on. We are 0-2 because of stubbornness on our play calling. I don't know if Norton told Pete to piss off and let me call my game but the stunts and blitzes he was running was stuff I hadn't seen since Quinn. Maybe our OC needs to grow a pair and step up to PC because it isn't like he will fire you if you succeed. Schotty needs to be agressive and Pete needs to BTFO.

    From what I understood Pete Carroll was going to handle most of the defensive play calls this year. Carroll is actually very good when it comes to the defensive side of the ball, his problem is he doesn't know anything about the offensive side of things.
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  • Pete Carroll hasn't progressed as I had anticipated. I thought he would've learned after the last 3 seasons how the offense has been run, but sadly nope.

    It has been a tale of two offenses, for a long time.

    1) The Pete Carroll "philosophy" offense. They run this at the start of games, and as long as they have the lead. A stagnant, condensed, antiquated 1970's Offense that gets your QB killed. Pete never got the memo that Bill Walsh came along and killed that style 30 years ago.

    2) The Russell Wilson offense. AKA the 2 min offense. They run this when they go 2min at the end of the 1st half. And then again when they have no choice, but to abandon "Pete" ball because they have to score points, usually in the 4th qtr.

    They spread the field, go single back, and more importantly Russell Wilson gets to make the majority of the calls.

    2017 STATS

    PETE BALL 1st QTR: 4 TDS, 3 INTS, 58%, 74.6 Passer Rating, Sacked 14 Times.

    RUSS BALL 4th QTR: 18 TDS, 1 INT, 68%, 134.1 Passer Rating, Sacked 3 Times. THREE TIMES, that is it.

    The Sacks really expose the situation. Russ should be getting sacked more in the 4th qtr, not less. The Seahawks are trailing most of the time in the 4th, and everyone know they are throwing it. The run game is abandoned, yet only sacked
    3 times.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-seahawks-bears-brian-schottenheimer-pete-carroll-russell-wilson

    The lack of creativity was startling, especially when juxtaposed with a Bears offense that has infused a bunch of college-inspired concepts into its scheme in order to take advantage of Mitch Trubisky’s mobility. The Seahawks, meanwhile, treated Wilson like a late-career John Elway.

    "Read Option, Sprint Right Option, Speed Option….TE Screen, Gap Screen, Slot Screen, Bubble Screen, RB Screen….Draw, Sprint Draw, Play Action Off Draw…No Huddle, Muddle Huddle, Quick Break Huddle…Many ways to use Bears aggressiveness against them. Seen almost none of this"

    — Brock Huard (@BrockESPN) September 18, 2018

    Pete has failed.
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  • @Fade you can't leave this message board. You know that don't you?
    Always a pleasure to read your posts..whether I agree with them or not.
    (I agree 100 here)
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  • King Dog wrote:He seems to have plateaued. It's the same old shat over and over. Play like trash for two or three quarters, switch it up to the two minute offense at some point giving us a chance to win with no margin for error, and either pull off an amazing win, or go down in flames.....

    It's odd. Now at nearly 30 he doesn't have the wheels like he did at one time to get out of trouble. I'm really disappointed he hasn't taken steps to become a dynamic pocket passer.

    Looked real bad against a mediocre Bears team. I hope we don't pay him Rodgers money.

    I have mixed feelings about Wilson. I don't think he is a good pure pocket passer. Not the best at throwing slant passes, and isn't exactly to keen on throwing timing patterns. He hasn't seemed to master the art of looking off players on short passes, and seems to have spotty accuracy when he tries to play the traditional QB game. All of that being said I think that lays at the hand of our head coach, Pete Carroll.

    Pete Carroll has drilled in Russell Wilson's head the two words "toxic differential". Essentially that means don't turn the football over. Carroll has a point, the toxic differential is important. Unfortunately building the offense around minimizing the toxic differential teaches some very bad habits. Most of our plays are safe, low risk throws that have a low chance of being intercepted, but on the same hand are low percentage plays that take a long time to develop. This type of offense is great when you have a strong defense behind you, and a strong running game to go with it.

    Another downside is it instilled some bad habits in Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll controls what Wilson can, and can't do at the LOS very carefully. Plays consistently come in late, leaving Wilson little time for making adjustments. Wilson also has never had to learn the finer details of passing because of this offensive style. We have handicapped our QB and gimped him as a player. Russell Wilson has hit a wall due to what he's been taught in the NFL, and the style of offense we have been running since 2012.
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  • As Wilson becomes slower with age he needs to look more like Drew Breese. A ruthless QB you gets first down after first down. The pass rush looks so good because the Seahawks can't get first downs to burn out the pass rushers.
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  • hgwellz12 wrote:@Fade you can't leave this message board. You know that don't you?
    Always a pleasure to read your posts..whether I agree with them or not.
    (I agree 100 here)


    I am glad you enjoy them.
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  • All ..that could be true but russ seems to turn something on with his back against the wall. The Touchdown to Tyler he had a free blitzing corner running at him but he was deliberate hit his back foot and got the ball out quick. All the Pete is the anti QB guru ...getting in there head about never throwing an interception ..Holmgren is on record saying he just wants him to cut it loose and Mike would know.

    Maybe that is it ... when the chips are down throw all the careful ...it's all about the ball offense out the window and as Holmgren says ...cut it lose. When he was getting drafted an N.C. state fan did say they loved him but he does at least one thing a game that makes you go wtf ...so there is that.

    I don't know but John and his guys talk too ...and they are smarter than us ... somebody should have an idea on how to fix it... because right now Russ is proving that it is not all about the ball.... if you go three and out all day.

    Why not let Russ call his own plays like peyton ...and just get sugestions from the side lines ...anything at this point is woth trying.
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  • RW is holding the ball to long. He looks better in hurry up. Aaron Rodgers is amazing because he doesnt hold the ball very long. Its as simple as that. Russell looked better in the preseason because......he was releasing the ball faster. Thus the preseason hope with the oline and .........I dont know. Iff they cant fix it lets start over??? This is suddenly a completely bad football team. We have had 5 picks already. We should have two wins. This is about RW for sure.
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  • But I'm sure is has NOTHING to do with a pathetic O Line and ridiculous play calling at all. Everything is his fault. :?
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  • A lot of players progress in unanticipated ways. It's not like we on the outside develop a day to day working repertoire with any of them.

    Resorting to blaming this and that is not a vehicle to sail thru the process of development and understanding. Blame is more like the act of dropping an anchor.
    Last edited by Jville on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Fade wrote:Pete Carroll hasn't progressed as I had anticipated. I thought he would've learned after the last 3 seasons how the offense has been run, but sadly nope.

    It has been a tale of two offenses, for a long time.

    1) The Pete Carroll "philosophy" offense. They run this at the start of games, and as long as they have the lead. A stagnant, condensed, antiquated 1970's Offense that gets your QB killed. Pete never got the memo that Bill Walsh came along and killed that style 30 years ago.

    2) The Russell Wilson offense. AKA the 2 min offense. They run this when they go 2min at the end of the 1st half. And then again when they have no choice, but to abandon "Pete" ball because they have to score points, usually in the 4th qtr.

    They spread the field, go single back, and more importantly Russell Wilson gets to make the majority of the calls.

    2017 STATS

    PETE BALL 1st QTR: 4 TDS, 3 INTS, 58%, 74.6 Passer Rating, Sacked 14 Times.

    RUSS BALL 4th QTR: 18 TDS, 1 INT, 68%, 134.1 Passer Rating, Sacked 3 Times. THREE TIMES, that is it.

    The Sacks really expose the situation. Russ should be getting sacked more in the 4th qtr, not less. The Seahawks are trailing most of the time in the 4th, and everyone know they are throwing it. The run game is abandoned, yet only sacked
    3 times.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-seahawks-bears-brian-schottenheimer-pete-carroll-russell-wilson

    The lack of creativity was startling, especially when juxtaposed with a Bears offense that has infused a bunch of college-inspired concepts into its scheme in order to take advantage of Mitch Trubisky’s mobility. The Seahawks, meanwhile, treated Wilson like a late-career John Elway.

    "Read Option, Sprint Right Option, Speed Option….TE Screen, Gap Screen, Slot Screen, Bubble Screen, RB Screen….Draw, Sprint Draw, Play Action Off Draw…No Huddle, Muddle Huddle, Quick Break Huddle…Many ways to use Bears aggressiveness against them. Seen almost none of this"

    — Brock Huard (@BrockESPN) September 18, 2018

    Pete has failed.


    Great read. Good stuff man.
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  • King Dog wrote:I do


    You would be wrong. Bears are much improved and have one of the best defenses in the league.
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  • Fade wrote:Pete Carroll hasn't progressed as I had anticipated. I thought he would've learned after the last 3 seasons how the offense has been run, but sadly nope.

    It has been a tale of two offenses, for a long time.

    1) The Pete Carroll "philosophy" offense. They run this at the start of games, and as long as they have the lead. A stagnant, condensed, antiquated 1970's Offense that gets your QB killed. Pete never got the memo that Bill Walsh came along and killed that style 30 years ago.

    2) The Russell Wilson offense. AKA the 2 min offense. They run this when they go 2min at the end of the 1st half. And then again when they have no choice, but to abandon "Pete" ball because they have to score points, usually in the 4th qtr.

    They spread the field, go single back, and more importantly Russell Wilson gets to make the majority of the calls.

    2017 STATS

    PETE BALL 1st QTR: 4 TDS, 3 INTS, 58%, 74.6 Passer Rating, Sacked 14 Times.

    RUSS BALL 4th QTR: 18 TDS, 1 INT, 68%, 134.1 Passer Rating, Sacked 3 Times. THREE TIMES, that is it.

    The Sacks really expose the situation. Russ should be getting sacked more in the 4th qtr, not less. The Seahawks are trailing most of the time in the 4th, and everyone know they are throwing it. The run game is abandoned, yet only sacked
    3 times.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-seahawks-bears-brian-schottenheimer-pete-carroll-russell-wilson

    The lack of creativity was startling, especially when juxtaposed with a Bears offense that has infused a bunch of college-inspired concepts into its scheme in order to take advantage of Mitch Trubisky’s mobility. The Seahawks, meanwhile, treated Wilson like a late-career John Elway.

    "Read Option, Sprint Right Option, Speed Option….TE Screen, Gap Screen, Slot Screen, Bubble Screen, RB Screen….Draw, Sprint Draw, Play Action Off Draw…No Huddle, Muddle Huddle, Quick Break Huddle…Many ways to use Bears aggressiveness against them. Seen almost none of this"

    — Brock Huard (@BrockESPN) September 18, 2018

    Pete has failed.


    Good stuff. Keep in mind when we are running two-minute, that's usually against a prevent type defense as well.
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  • Pete's failed ...... Wilson's failed ..... and the call to fire the latest OC has already dropped anchor ... LOL



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  • Fade wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I want your opinion.


    Well, nobody wants my opinion, but I'll jump in and give it. :lol:

    There's nothing special going on in the Seahawks' two minute offense, what changes is the defense.

    So, let's not talk about two minute offense, let's talk about the Bears and two minute defense.

    BEFORE HALFTIME:

    If you're up by 10 and going into 2 minute defense, holding the offense to a 56 yard field goal attempt is essentially a stalemate. A TD or a 30-40 yard field goal would be a win for the offense, and no FG attempt would be a win for the defense. In a two minute defense your trading yards for the clock draining down.

    END OF GAME:

    If you're up by 14 with 3 minutes left, and can grind the clock so that you're up by 1 touchdown with 15 seconds left, that's a win for the defense. At the end of the game you're trading yards and even points for the clock draining down.

    Basically, a team running their two minute defense is an invitation to an offense to pad their stats in exchange for the clock running out. It's why defenses leave the 5-7 yard pass to the RB over the middle entirely open -- if the RB doesn't break a tackle and gain more than 10 yards that is a win for the defense. It's a weird thing in which a RB dropping that pass is actually less favorable for the defense (it stops the clock) than the RB catching the pass and getting tackled under 10 yards.

    Put another way, the Seahawks, like every other team, are more successful moving the ball in a two minute offense not because of them, but because the situation causes defenses to INVITE THEM to move the ball in exchange for clock time.
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  • The 2 minute offense works because they play sandlot football . That is what Wilson is good at . He plays by instinct and plays faster. He doesn't have time to think which gets him in trouble. He can't be coached like a conventional NFL QB.
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  • Wilson looks great when the opposing defense plays prevent. That's about it.
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  • :roll:
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  • Wilson has regressed because the rest of the roster and coaching staff has regressed. Imagine that. It's like people are expecting him to replicate last year's Houston game every week.
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  • It's September.

    The NFL is still a learn and adapt league. It's back and forth. Adjust and readjust.
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  • Fade wrote:Pete Carroll hasn't progressed as I had anticipated. I thought he would've learned after the last 3 seasons how the offense has been run, but sadly nope.

    It has been a tale of two offenses, for a long time.

    1) The Pete Carroll "philosophy" offense. They run this at the start of games, and as long as they have the lead. A stagnant, condensed, antiquated 1970's Offense that gets your QB killed. Pete never got the memo that Bill Walsh came along and killed that style 30 years ago.

    2) The Russell Wilson offense. AKA the 2 min offense. They run this when they go 2min at the end of the 1st half. And then again when they have no choice, but to abandon "Pete" ball because they have to score points, usually in the 4th qtr.

    They spread the field, go single back, and more importantly Russell Wilson gets to make the majority of the calls.

    2017 STATS

    PETE BALL 1st QTR: 4 TDS, 3 INTS, 58%, 74.6 Passer Rating, Sacked 14 Times.

    RUSS BALL 4th QTR: 18 TDS, 1 INT, 68%, 134.1 Passer Rating, Sacked 3 Times. THREE TIMES, that is it.

    The Sacks really expose the situation. Russ should be getting sacked more in the 4th qtr, not less. The Seahawks are trailing most of the time in the 4th, and everyone know they are throwing it. The run game is abandoned, yet only sacked
    3 times.

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-seahawks-bears-brian-schottenheimer-pete-carroll-russell-wilson

    The lack of creativity was startling, especially when juxtaposed with a Bears offense that has infused a bunch of college-inspired concepts into its scheme in order to take advantage of Mitch Trubisky’s mobility. The Seahawks, meanwhile, treated Wilson like a late-career John Elway.

    "Read Option, Sprint Right Option, Speed Option….TE Screen, Gap Screen, Slot Screen, Bubble Screen, RB Screen….Draw, Sprint Draw, Play Action Off Draw…No Huddle, Muddle Huddle, Quick Break Huddle…Many ways to use Bears aggressiveness against them. Seen almost none of this"

    — Brock Huard (@BrockESPN) September 18, 2018

    Pete has failed.


    :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

    Pay this man!!

    Great post and brings facts to the table to support the common sense, passes the eye test evaluation.
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  • Wilson is great in the pocket...when he has one! Remember 2015, I still believe Wilson and not Cam should of been MVP that year.

    Look back at his TDs this year and I feel like the majority are standing in the pocket. I saw someone say Rodgers is great because he doesnt hold the ball too long, but that also helps he has the choice. Look at his 2 TDs against the Bears last week, he had 6 seconds in the pocket without moving on one and 8 on the last one to Cobb. That's the kind of stuff Russ dreams of.

    The play calling is boring and plain and looks the same as last year, people aren't getting open to release the ball quicky, you watch the Chiefs, Eagles under foles etc and someone is open straight away off the snap.

    Wilson does do things wrong, but there is a witch hunt brewing against the wrong person, its everyone else who should be getting outed before Russ
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  • I thought Wilson had a chance to be an all time great early on, especially after 2015.... :(
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  • The title should be

    Pete has not allowed Wilson to progress as I had anticipated

    Pete seems to not trust anyone to make decisions.
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  • King Dog wrote:He seems to have plateaued. It's the same old shat over and over. Play like trash for two or three quarters, switch it up to the two minute offense at some point giving us a chance to win with no margin for error, and either pull off an amazing win, or go down in flames.....

    It's odd. Now at nearly 30 he doesn't have the wheels like he did at one time to get out of trouble. I'm really disappointed he hasn't taken steps to become a dynamic pocket passer.

    Looked real bad against a mediocre Bears team. I hope we don't pay him Rodgers money.


    I don't think 'sink or swim' is the best technique to get the best out of people. And that is seemingly what they're doing at the moment.

    It's almost like Pete believes 'if we can master this super obvious thing that has a higher learning curve to do well, we'll be unstoppable' never considering that his platonic ideal is less efficient and in fact a lot harder to master.

    "If we can survive getting our faces getting ripped off by a leopard, we can survive anything!" is all well and good until you're down 3 or 4 faces.
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  • Decimation wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I’m not a coach so my opinion might be stupid, but I think the coaching staff is holding him back.

    When we’re behind, this is when I believe that in the 4th he goes off script and plays with urgency.

    Why don’t we play with urgency all the time? I don’t get it. Let Russ run the offense, what the hell do we have to lose anyways.

    We’re 0-2. Either the coaching staff gets their head out of their ass or you need to let Russ do his thing.


    ^ I made this exact point 2+ years ago saying that RW should just disregard the coaches and call his own plays in the huddle and/or audible at the line when needed. I was called out by some on this board that he can't ignore the coaches decisions. That's not how it works.

    Well, nothing has changed. We still have a crappy offense with only a modest change when he goes off script.

    The issue is now PC and his value to this team today and long term.
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  • kf3339 wrote:
    Decimation wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I’m not a coach so my opinion might be stupid, but I think the coaching staff is holding him back.

    When we’re behind, this is when I believe that in the 4th he goes off script and plays with urgency.

    Why don’t we play with urgency all the time? I don’t get it. Let Russ run the offense, what the hell do we have to lose anyways.

    We’re 0-2. Either the coaching staff gets their head out of their ass or you need to let Russ do his thing.


    ^ I made this exact point 2+ years ago saying that RW should just disregard the coaches and call his own plays in the huddle and/or audible at the line when needed. I was called out by some on this board that he can't ignore the coaches decisions. That's not how it works.

    Well, nothing has changed. We still have a crappy offense with only a modest change when he goes off script.

    The issue is now PC and his value to this team today and long term.


    Disregarding coaches is generally a bad thing where so much coordination is needed. But if it happens, especially with RW doing so, that should be enough impetus to question where they went wrong - that RW, the pluckiest and most loyal puppy has turned on them. And at least they wouldn't be at a loss as to what's wrong with him, they'd know that he doesn't trust them anymore and the ball is in their court on how to deal with it.
    mrt144
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I want your opinion.


    Well, nobody wants my opinion, but I'll jump in and give it. :lol:

    There's nothing special going on in the Seahawks' two minute offense, what changes is the defense.

    So, let's not talk about two minute offense, let's talk about the Bears and two minute defense.

    BEFORE HALFTIME:

    If you're up by 10 and going into 2 minute defense, holding the offense to a 56 yard field goal attempt is essentially a stalemate. A TD or a 30-40 yard field goal would be a win for the offense, and no FG attempt would be a win for the defense. In a two minute defense your trading yards for the clock draining down.

    END OF GAME:

    If you're up by 14 with 3 minutes left, and can grind the clock so that you're up by 1 touchdown with 15 seconds left, that's a win for the defense. At the end of the game you're trading yards and even points for the clock draining down.

    Basically, a team running their two minute defense is an invitation to an offense to pad their stats in exchange for the clock running out. It's why defenses leave the 5-7 yard pass to the RB over the middle entirely open -- if the RB doesn't break a tackle and gain more than 10 yards that is a win for the defense. It's a weird thing in which a RB dropping that pass is actually less favorable for the defense (it stops the clock) than the RB catching the pass and getting tackled under 10 yards.

    Put another way, the Seahawks, like every other team, are more successful moving the ball in a two minute offense not because of them, but because the situation causes defenses to INVITE THEM to move the ball in exchange for clock time.

    Yes, this is the correct answer, not the "Wilson is freed from the shackles of his OC during the 2 minute drill" nonsense.

    Think of how much time is run off the clock when a team completes a 12-yard-pass over the middle of the field. It takes a lot of time for the next play to happen -- the official has to re-set the ball, everyone has to get up to the line of scrimmage, they've got to snap the ball... it's not uncommon to see an intermediate pass over the middle suck up like 20 seconds of valuable clock time.

    Also, to add to this, it's a "bend, don't break" mentality. Blitzing is a gamble -- it makes the defense susceptible to big plays. The last thing you want in a late-game situation is a long touchdown. Instead, you want to play vanilla coverage, and do everything you can to milk the clock. You protect against deep passes, and you protect against sideline throws. You play lax coverage over the middle of the field.

    Look at the last drive of the game on Monday. The Hawks went 99 yards... but they used up 2:28 of the 2:42 remaining in the game. For the Bears, that's a win. Even in the event of a successful onside kick, you're basically talking about 10 seconds remaining on the clock. For all intents and purposes the game is over.
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    JimmyG
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I want your opinion.


    Well, nobody wants my opinion, but I'll jump in and give it. :lol:

    There's nothing special going on in the Seahawks' two minute offense, what changes is the defense.

    So, let's not talk about two minute offense, let's talk about the Bears and two minute defense.

    BEFORE HALFTIME:

    If you're up by 10 and going into 2 minute defense, holding the offense to a 56 yard field goal attempt is essentially a stalemate. A TD or a 30-40 yard field goal would be a win for the offense, and no FG attempt would be a win for the defense. In a two minute defense your trading yards for the clock draining down.

    END OF GAME:

    If you're up by 14 with 3 minutes left, and can grind the clock so that you're up by 1 touchdown with 15 seconds left, that's a win for the defense. At the end of the game you're trading yards and even points for the clock draining down.

    Basically, a team running their two minute defense is an invitation to an offense to pad their stats in exchange for the clock running out. It's why defenses leave the 5-7 yard pass to the RB over the middle entirely open -- if the RB doesn't break a tackle and gain more than 10 yards that is a win for the defense. It's a weird thing in which a RB dropping that pass is actually less favorable for the defense (it stops the clock) than the RB catching the pass and getting tackled under 10 yards.

    Put another way, the Seahawks, like every other team, are more successful moving the ball in a two minute offense not because of them, but because the situation causes defenses to INVITE THEM to move the ball in exchange for clock time.


    Good theory, but if you watched last season, they only consistently saw prevent against Tennessee, Jax, at home against the Rams (which he ended up doing nothing in.) They were in every game save for those 3 which he padded his stats in 2 of them verses prevent. Please account for the other 13 games, bearing in mind the Rams game actually hurt his stats.

    Now account for the sacks. Why is he getting sacked far more in the 1st qtr than the 4th qtr?
    4th qtr sacked only 3 times ? When everyone knows you're throwing it? In 13 games he wasn't consistently seeing prevent, they either had the lead, or were right there within a score, or two.



    Just look at the Bears game.

    17 points scored during "Russ Ball", sacked 1 time. Yes a garbage time TD at the end. still makes it.

    10 points, 1 sack

    vs.

    0 points during "Pete Ball" sacked 5 times.

    Read the article I linked. Wilson is being square pegged, round holed by a dated scheme.

    My final thought is this. If you were any other team in the NFL. The Chiefs, The Patriots, The Browns, The Bills, it doesn't matter. Would you want to run Pete Carroll's Offensive Scheme? Put yourself in their shoes. The answer will quickly be HELL NO!
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    Fade
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  • Fade wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    What do you think is happening?


    I want your opinion.


    Well, nobody wants my opinion, but I'll jump in and give it. :lol:

    There's nothing special going on in the Seahawks' two minute offense, what changes is the defense.

    So, let's not talk about two minute offense, let's talk about the Bears and two minute defense.

    BEFORE HALFTIME:

    If you're up by 10 and going into 2 minute defense, holding the offense to a 56 yard field goal attempt is essentially a stalemate. A TD or a 30-40 yard field goal would be a win for the offense, and no FG attempt would be a win for the defense. In a two minute defense your trading yards for the clock draining down.

    END OF GAME:

    If you're up by 14 with 3 minutes left, and can grind the clock so that you're up by 1 touchdown with 15 seconds left, that's a win for the defense. At the end of the game you're trading yards and even points for the clock draining down.

    Basically, a team running their two minute defense is an invitation to an offense to pad their stats in exchange for the clock running out. It's why defenses leave the 5-7 yard pass to the RB over the middle entirely open -- if the RB doesn't break a tackle and gain more than 10 yards that is a win for the defense. It's a weird thing in which a RB dropping that pass is actually less favorable for the defense (it stops the clock) than the RB catching the pass and getting tackled under 10 yards.

    Put another way, the Seahawks, like every other team, are more successful moving the ball in a two minute offense not because of them, but because the situation causes defenses to INVITE THEM to move the ball in exchange for clock time.


    Good theory, but if you watched last season, they only consistently saw prevent against Tennessee, Jax, at home against the Rams (which he ended up doing nothing in.) They were in every game save for those 3 which he padded his stats in 2 of them verses prevent. Please account for the other 13 games, bearing in mind the Rams game actually hurt his stats.

    Now account for the sacks. Why is he getting sacked far more in the 1st qtr than the 4th qtr?
    4th qtr sacked only 3 times ? When everyone knows you're throwing it? In 13 games he wasn't consistently seeing prevent, they either had the lead, or were right there within a score, or two.



    Just look at the Bears game.

    17 points scored during "Russ Ball", sacked 1 time. Yes a garbage time TD at the end. still makes it.

    10 points, 1 sack

    vs.

    0 points during "Pete Ball" sacked 5 times.

    Read the article I linked. Wilson is being square pegged, round holed by a dated scheme.

    My final thought is this. If you were any other team in the NFL. The Chiefs, The Patriots, The Browns, The Bills, it doesn't matter. Would you want to run Pete Carroll's Offensive Scheme? Put yourself in their shoes. The answer will quickly be HELL NO!


    I've discussed Carroll's preferred offense with my coworker day in and day out! Analyzed why the "West Coast Offense" would help and keep coming back to is it Carroll's fault or is Wilson himself unable to run a more traditional WCO. The shorter quick pass game seems it would definitely alleviate some stalls and benefit the run game but I also think Carroll's pedigree would make using this offense almost automatic so what gives? Who's offense it really? Is it Carroll's or have they thought about using this offense but Wilson is unable to run it (for whatever reason) proficiently?

    I wanna say it's the former but this would mean, the only way the Seahawks make any "real changes" to their offense is letting Carroll go.

    Eventually Carroll's time will be up as HC but I'm not sure if Paul Allen believes it to be this year.

    And then the billion dollar question would be who is the successor to Carroll?!?!?
    "Awww, you so weak!" Richard Sherman to Joe Webb

    "Uh, huh, you suck!" Richard Sherman to Pierre Garçon

    "Don't f***** try me--I'm the best!" Richard Sherman

    Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
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    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • King Dog wrote:It's odd. Now at nearly 30 he doesn't have the wheels like he did at one time to get out of trouble. I'm really disappointed he hasn't taken steps to become a dynamic pocket passer.


    He seemed fast enough to catch up with prince amukamara a DB who by his position is supposed to be one of the faster guys on the field.

    Why is it sooooo important that he become a traditional "pocket passer"? Is it because everybody says that's what GOOD QB's do? IMO, most pocket passers are pocket passers because they can't run faster than a 5 flat 40.
    TreeRon
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  • Anyone who think RW has hit the wall is an idiot. QB's aren't baseball players, they don't just fall off. Name a great QB who just fell off in his prime? His struggles are a product of the team around him. Give him the line he had as a rookie and he'd be one of the best players in the league. You can't expect him to play well right now, he has no line and his #1 WR is more of a #3 WR. Put Lockett on any team and he isn't playing in two WR sets. Also, he is in the first year with a new offensive coordinator, he needs time to learn.
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    Hawk-Lock
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Eventually Carroll's time will be up as HC but I'm not sure if Paul Allen believes it to be this year.

    And then the billion dollar question would be who is the successor to Carroll?!?!?


    Pete needs to be extended at the end of the year. If it's the same old song & dance post 49, I do not see Paul Allen extending him.

    I only see if by miracle Pete accepts to only focus on being the HC, and focus on defense. (strip him of his power.) You even think about signing him to an extension. Not very likely Pete would ever accept such terms.

    Taking the keys away from grandpa is the only scenario I see being successful for the Seahawks going forward. Or he is going to keep crashing the car, over & over again.
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    Fade
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  • Not without fault. But seriously blame the one guy that has single handily done and won more with less is asinine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    DJ_CJ
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  • I’m not trying to be a pessimist by any means, but Pete has to go.

    I love that he brought us a Super Bowl win, almost TWO, but the NFL consists of “what have you done lately?”

    It’s not a good situation by any means. Pete needs to change things up and get our offense rolling so we can win some games. What he’s working with isn’t working. Let Russ take the ropes and see if he’s worth the $30 million/year contract.

    Does this suck? Yup. Pete has done amazing things for this franchise. But it’s time to move on to younger blood that can turn us around. We could be 2-0 easily, but dumb decisions on offense have costed us games.

    Improve the o-line... somehow. Find ways to utilize RW and maximize his potential. The offense has been horrid to watch since Marshawn left.
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    Decimation
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    King Dog wrote:
    Fade wrote:What do you think is happening when they go to their 2 min offense?


    What do you think is happening?


    I want your opinion.


    Well, nobody wants my opinion, but I'll jump in and give it. :lol:

    There's nothing special going on in the Seahawks' two minute offense, what changes is the defense.

    So, let's not talk about two minute offense, let's talk about the Bears and two minute defense.

    BEFORE HALFTIME:

    If you're up by 10 and going into 2 minute defense, holding the offense to a 56 yard field goal attempt is essentially a stalemate. A TD or a 30-40 yard field goal would be a win for the offense, and no FG attempt would be a win for the defense. In a two minute defense your trading yards for the clock draining down.

    END OF GAME:

    If you're up by 14 with 3 minutes left, and can grind the clock so that you're up by 1 touchdown with 15 seconds left, that's a win for the defense. At the end of the game you're trading yards and even points for the clock draining down.

    Basically, a team running their two minute defense is an invitation to an offense to pad their stats in exchange for the clock running out. It's why defenses leave the 5-7 yard pass to the RB over the middle entirely open -- if the RB doesn't break a tackle and gain more than 10 yards that is a win for the defense. It's a weird thing in which a RB dropping that pass is actually less favorable for the defense (it stops the clock) than the RB catching the pass and getting tackled under 10 yards.

    Put another way, the Seahawks, like every other team, are more successful moving the ball in a two minute offense not because of them, but because the situation causes defenses to INVITE THEM to move the ball in exchange for clock time.


    ^ Very true statement!
    kf3339
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  • Seattle's problems are simple . A very poor offensive line and no star players on offense other than Wilson who is doing what he can but so far it hasn't been enough. An OC that's trying to make Wilson a pocket passer foolish given our lack of talent up front and at the skill positions on offense. Defensively they have been good so far. Seattle really needs a win this Sunday. Apparently Penny will share carries with Carson that's what Pete and Brian said was going to be the case against Dallas we'll see how that plays out.
    Northwest Seahawk
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  • Trade for Leveon Bell.

    Problem solved.
    NINEster
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  • NINEster wrote:Trade for Leveon Bell.

    Problem solved.


    And pay for another player who’s focused on maximizing their bank account?

    No thanks. Great player, but we need players who are motivated to kick ass.
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    Decimation
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