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Is it time to move on From Pete?

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Should this be Pete's last year?

Yes
93
60%
No
63
40%
 
Total votes : 156

Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:27 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Also, the comparison of Coughlin to Pete is funny.

    They are literally polar opposites. Not just because he beat the Patriots and Pete didn't.

    On almost every level. Coughlin is as close to the anti-Pete as I can think of. They both liked Defense so they share that.


    It was not about the characteristics of either man but the view of the fan base that was similar. Same things said about Couglhlin in New York are being said about Pete in Seattle. And I very much can see the same crappy outcome if Pete is bum rushed out the door.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:50 pm
  • The longer we keep Pete, the less time we have to figure out if Wilson is worth going all in on.

    Pete seems to have no value as a coach anymore.

    Coughlin was starting to stumble all over the place. Are you implying you think that Coughlin would have produced if the Giants kept him? Did you watch those last years of Giants games?

    Coughlin is helping the Jaguars succeed by advising them. But he would be a trainwreck if they brought him in as the coach.

    So I am not sure what point you are making on Pete vs Coughlin.

    I loved Coughlin as a coach. I admired his work at Boston College and noticed how did more with less (instead of Pete doing less with more), beating teams from bigger schools with deeper talent regularly. Then he made the Jags a playoff contender in essentially their first go round. And we all know what he did with the Giants.

    But he was all over the place at the end and the Giants were not going to get better. He is fantastic as a football executive. If Pete wants that role, by all means - just don't let him call plays or influence the offense.

    We will know what the Seahawks look like at the end of year but that buzzsaw at the end of the schedule says the easy games are right now and they are putting together some of the worst football we have seen as Seahawk fans (at least on the offensive end). It isn't just bad. It is terrible.

    If the games look like that near end of year, he has to go. If we even have a QB that hasn't been killed by sack overdose by then.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:59 pm
  • There talent evaluation on offense is there biggest flaw and Penny hasn't looked great at any time yet. Pete and John have systematically destroyed a great roster and replaced it with lesser talent. If they can't find star plyers in the draft then nothing else this franchise does will matter. This is a game decided by star players and we don't have any.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:00 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:The longer we keep Pete, the less time we have to figure out if Wilson is worth going all in on.

    Pete seems to have no value as a coach anymore.

    Coughlin was starting to stumble all over the place. Are you implying you think that Coughlin would have produced if the Giants kept him? Did you watch those last years of Giants games?

    Coughlin is helping the Jaguars succeed by advising them. But he would be a trainwreck if they brought him in as the coach.

    So I am not sure what point you are making on Pete vs Coughlin.

    I loved Coughlin as a coach. I admired his work at Boston College and noticed how did more with less (instead of Pete doing less with more), beating teams from bigger schools with deeper talent regularly. Then he made the Jags a playoff contender in essentially their first go round. And we all know what he did with the Giants.

    But he was all over the place at the end and the Giants were not going to get better. He is fantastic as a football executive. If Pete wants that role, by all means - just don't let him call plays or influence the offense.

    We will know what the Seahawks look like at the end of year but that buzzsaw at the end of the schedule says the easy games are right now and they are putting together some of the worst football we have seen as Seahawk fans (at least on the offensive end). It isn't just bad. It is terrible.

    If the games look like that near end of year, he has to go. If we even have a QB that hasn't been killed by sack overdose by then.


    Pete the exec would be interesting to see but I think his ego would not allow him to not interfere with whoever the coach is of that team and constantly be looming over them like a shadow.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:42 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:the real power struggle might be between john and pete

    I haven't heard, or seen anything yet to come to that conclusion. It will definitely be something to monitor if the team continues to lose. The wheels will have really come off at that point.


    Its just my intuition, I know Schneider loves Wilson. I'm not sure Pete does, he loves physical freaks. Maybe thats why he's never let the training wheels off?
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:17 pm
  • IrishNW wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:the real power struggle might be between john and pete

    I haven't heard, or seen anything yet to come to that conclusion. It will definitely be something to monitor if the team continues to lose. The wheels will have really come off at that point.


    Its just my intuition, I know Schneider loves Wilson. I'm not sure Pete does, he loves physical freaks. Maybe thats why he's never let the training wheels off?


    If I recall John wanted Wilson in the 2nd and Pete held him back till the third, so yeah he was Johns guy.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:34 pm
  • Over the next decade, we need to consistently put more points on the board than McVay and Shanahan. It's not enough to play great defense and keep points off the board (because they can hire great DCs and do the same). I just don't think the current formula--albeit being responsible for the best of times--will work any more. Particularly if you get desperate and sabotage your own formula...
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:38 pm
  • Jac wrote:Over the next decade, we need to consistently put more points on the board than McVay and Shanahan. It's not enough to play great defense and keep points off the board (because they can hire great DCs and do the same). I just don't think the current formula--albeit being responsible for the best of times--will work any more. Particularly if you get desperate and sabotage your own formula...


    Formula works fine when your not doing three and outs and take time off the clock and can score with that time of possession. Last couple of years too many three and outs and defense on the field too much, no return on when we do hold the ball unless it was a field goal and stalling in red zone being shut out of touchdowns, that's what has been the issue.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:48 pm
  • IrishNW wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:the real power struggle might be between john and pete

    I haven't heard, or seen anything yet to come to that conclusion. It will definitely be something to monitor if the team continues to lose. The wheels will have really come off at that point.


    Its just my intuition, I know Schneider loves Wilson. I'm not sure Pete does, he loves physical freaks. Maybe thats why he's never let the training wheels off?


    Yes, JS loves Wilson and coveted him greatly. Pete also loves Wilson, he just loves his "philosophy". The training wheels you're referring to, isn't training wheels, just a super outdated simple scheme that the league moved on from a long time ago. If Pete didn't love Wilson he would not have extended Wilson.

    Schneider & Pete are too slick when it comes to handling the media, so it will be very difficult to to gauge how their relationship is holding up, but all it will take is one finger pointing moment and everyone will know.

    Pete has been slippin' lately so we'll see.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:50 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    IrishNW wrote:the real power struggle might be between john and pete

    I haven't heard, or seen anything yet to come to that conclusion. It will definitely be something to monitor if the team continues to lose. The wheels will have really come off at that point.


    Its just my intuition, I know Schneider loves Wilson. I'm not sure Pete does, he loves physical freaks. Maybe thats why he's never let the training wheels off?


    Yes, JS loves Wilson and coveted him greatly. Pete also loves Wilson, he just loves his "philosophy". The training wheels you're referring to, isn't training wheels, just a super outdated simple scheme that the league moved on from a long time ago. If Pete didn't love Wilson he would not have extended Wilson.

    Schneider & Pete are too slick when it comes to handling the media, so it will be very difficult to to gauge how their relationship is holding up, but all it will take is one finger pointing moment and everyone will know.

    Pete has been slippin' lately so we'll see.


    Would it be absurd to think that Pete loves things about Wilson that are not wholly related to football but more related to attitude and approach?
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:52 pm
  • seahawkfreak wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:Underproduced with one of the best defenses? He got to two superbowls. How many SB's did the Mid 80's Bears get to? The early 2000's Bucaneers?

    Methinks thou doth protest too much.

    Expectations of multiple Superbowls in the current NFL parity at all costs system are pretty ridiculous. There is exactly one franchise that can boast that sort of consistency. That's a high bar.

    Pete got us to the playoffs 6 straight seasons. No one else in the NFC has done that this decade.

    Pete deserves to coach here until he wishes to retire and I'm certainly afraid that his leaving will throw us into another 10 year abyss of bad Seahawk football. Everyone wanted Holmgren gone and Knox gone and their successors were worse. You don't can good coaches. You let them rebuild. Everyone needs to rebuild every 6 years or so. Peak performance of players only lasts a few years.


    I know it is feels good to be a contrarian but the offense has gotten progressively worse and the arrow is pointing right at PC now. Probably why he held onto Bevelle so long, he knew Bevelle wasn't the whole problem.

    There is nothing wrong with having high expectations. No corporation or business owner says "well everyone has a couple years of losing money (once established)". No, they say this is unacceptable and try to fix the problem. The past 2 games has been some of the worst offensive play calling I have ever seen. I don't want Pete gone but I want him to keep his damn hands off the offense. At least during game time.



    So what makes you think Pete isn’t trying to fix the problem? He fired 3 coaches. He jettisoned some aging players to get younger on D. He worked on improving the run game that was non-existent last year. I don’t see much evidence of lack of trying. So far things aren’t working out. But it’s not for lack of effort if you ask me. Were we all expecting this turnaround to come off without a hitch?

    Yes you can set the bar at the Patriots. But if you don’t achieve Patriots is that a failure? Your comparison to business is flawed. It’s more like the second rank Fortune 500 company complaining that despite record profits they are still number 2 and everyone should be fired.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:52 pm
  • No. But it would be nice for him to scheme more for the other teams instead of the idea of "we do what we do so try to beat us". It worked great when we had one of the best defenses of all time but when you are rebuilding it is not the same.

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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:54 pm
  • Pete likes to keep things simple so that great athletes can make plays.

    We don't generally do complex things on offense or defense.

    He wants them to play on instinct and react, using their amazing gifts to out-athlete the competition.

    He does have an amazing mind for strategy (strategy, not tactics, he sucks at tactics) and can put systems in place that maximize the value of his players' strengths in working together.

    The problem with simplifying offense should be pretty evident though.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:57 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Pete likes to keep things simple so that great athletes can make plays.

    We don't generally do complex things on offense or defense.

    He wants them to play on instinct and react, using their amazing gifts to out-athlete the competition.

    He does have an amazing mind for strategy (strategy, not tactics, he sucks at tactics) and can put systems in place that maximize the value of his players' strengths in working together.

    The problem with simplifying offense should be pretty evident though.


    This is a great philosophy when your players are bigger, faster and stronger than your opponents........which is what we did for a solid 4-5 years, intimidated and pushed the other team around pounding them into submission, on both sides of the ball.

    But that simplified philosophy doesn't work very well when you don't have the athletes anymore.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:06 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Jac wrote:Over the next decade, we need to consistently put more points on the board than McVay and Shanahan. It's not enough to play great defense and keep points off the board (because they can hire great DCs and do the same). I just don't think the current formula--albeit being responsible for the best of times--will work any more. Particularly if you get desperate and sabotage your own formula...


    Formula works fine when your not doing three and outs and take time off the clock and can score with that time of possession. Last couple of years too many three and outs and defense on the field too much, no return on when we do hold the ball unless it was a field goal and stalling in red zone being shut out of touchdowns, that's what has been the issue.


    It's a boom or bust type of offense, 3 and outs will always be a problem.

    It's a scheme league, talent is negligible (parity). Pete had a unique run of talent acquisition (2010-2012) that will never be duplicated by him ever again. So he bucked the trend there for a while, but it isn't working anymore, and hasn't for a long time.

    Jac is 100% correct of what needs to happen. The biggest upgrade to the Seahawks would be a talented offensive mind massively improving the Seahawks very antiquated, stale, easy to defend offense.

    You have to be able to score more points in a division with McVay & Shanahan. 2 of the 5 best offensive minds in the game. They might even be top 2. They are that good.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:22 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Pete likes to keep things simple so that great athletes can make plays.

    We don't generally do complex things on offense or defense.

    He wants them to play on instinct and react, using their amazing gifts to out-athlete the competition.

    He does have an amazing mind for strategy (strategy, not tactics, he sucks at tactics) and can put systems in place that maximize the value of his players' strengths in working together.

    The problem with simplifying offense should be pretty evident though.


    This is a great philosophy when your players are bigger, faster and stronger than your opponents........which is what we did for a solid 4-5 years, intimidated and pushed the other team around pounding them into submission, on both sides of the ball.

    But that simplified philosophy doesn't work very well when you don't have the athletes anymore.


    And in theory, a simplified tactical approach should lessen the learning curve of what you need to do so that you can let that athleticism shine and get players to the level you want them faster, but...

    This is an adversarial game. You can stack the deck in your favor but you still need to play the hand right. Stacking the deck in your favor is a method and even a skill if you can do it over and over and not get caught but so is playing every hand you get as best you can to the point it seems like you're stacking the deck.

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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:33 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Jac wrote:Over the next decade, we need to consistently put more points on the board than McVay and Shanahan. It's not enough to play great defense and keep points off the board (because they can hire great DCs and do the same). I just don't think the current formula--albeit being responsible for the best of times--will work any more. Particularly if you get desperate and sabotage your own formula...


    Formula works fine when your not doing three and outs and take time off the clock and can score with that time of possession. Last couple of years too many three and outs and defense on the field too much, no return on when we do hold the ball unless it was a field goal and stalling in red zone being shut out of touchdowns, that's what has been the issue.


    It's a boom or bust type of offense, 3 and outs will always be a problem.

    It's a scheme league, talent is negligible (parity). Pete had a unique run of talent acquisition (2010-2012) that will never be duplicated by him ever again. So he bucked the trend there for a while, but it isn't working anymore, and hasn't for a long time.

    Jac is 100% correct of what needs to happen. The biggest upgrade to the Seahawks would be a talented offensive mind massively improving the Seahawks very antiquated, stale, easy to defend offense.

    You have to be able to score more points in a division with McVay & Shanahan. 2 of the 5 best offensive minds in the game. They might even be top 2. They are that good.


    I would say that in the long run talent is negligible as it changes, is injured, is whisked away for more money, gets into ATV accidents, etc etc. In the short term, as the 2012-2015 Hawks showed, talent isn't negligible, its the juice that makes the machine run smoother.

    Imagine for a moment if you will two completely overlapping circles spinning in opposite directions with a pin hole in the exact same spot at the start. One circle is talent. Another circle is scheme. Eventually those pinholes will overlap but the question is how fast each circle is spinning so that the overlap in pinholes allows a beam of light to go through. To me, it seems like for that brief period of time the talent pinhole was aligned almost perfectly with the scheme pinhole. Or somehow the talent hole got really large so that a lot of light shone through it even thought the scheme hole was tiny and not perfectly aligned with the talent hole.

    And then as the talent circle spun some more and more the scheme didn't move much if at all. So now we're at the point where the talent pinhole is somehow tiny and seemingly diametrically opposed to the scheme hole.

    This all makes more sense if you did a science fair project on light particles.
    Last edited by mrt144 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:42 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Jac wrote:Over the next decade, we need to consistently put more points on the board than McVay and Shanahan. It's not enough to play great defense and keep points off the board (because they can hire great DCs and do the same). I just don't think the current formula--albeit being responsible for the best of times--will work any more. Particularly if you get desperate and sabotage your own formula...


    Formula works fine when your not doing three and outs and take time off the clock and can score with that time of possession. Last couple of years too many three and outs and defense on the field too much, no return on when we do hold the ball unless it was a field goal and stalling in red zone being shut out of touchdowns, that's what has been the issue.

    The talent has changed but the approach hasn't. Pete Carroll is the type of coach that will continue to do the same thing, even as the circumstances change around him. Even when in the Seahawks heyday of 2012-2014 the offense was a largely a question mark that was carried by two remarkable talents.
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Is it time to move on From Pete?
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:56 pm
  • No, it’s not time to move on from Pete:

    1. There aren’t any successor ready to take over internally.
    2. There aren’t any must have candidates externally.
    3. Our past three seasons left a bit to desire, but owners of 3/4 of the league will take that record and declared success.
    4. This season so far is bad, but only on the offense side of the ball. We lost two games, both very very winnable. Our defense over achieved over the period.

    I was one of the silly boys that asked for Bill Walsh’s head, other silly boys asked for Harbaugh’s too. I ain’t asking again. Sorry.


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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:12 am
  • Holy smokes. People will always make it what they want. Pete should stay. The season is still young. If Pete is not TELLING you what you want to hear, then don't listen to him. But tell me you aren't impressed with the defense so far considering all of the changes and injuries. Pete's a defensive guy - always has been always will be.

    The offense, that's a different story. Russ should own that ship by now. Blaming Pete is wrong.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:37 am
  • Sherman was correct. Pete has lost the team. The reason the team is in disarray is to the mishandling of the team since 2015. I appreciate what Pete has done for the Seahawks by taking them to 2 SBs and winning a championship. But he has gotten stale and the team is suffering because of it.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:44 am
  • There are 2 reasons why the defense has looked decent. 1. Keenum. 2. Trubisky
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:47 am
  • It's time to move on from Carroll when the rest of the league has figured him out and he has no counterpunch.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:56 am
  • nwHawk wrote:The offense, that's a different story. Russ should own that ship by now. Blaming Pete is wrong.


    Pete is ultimately responsible for the continued abysmal failures of this offense. It starts at the top with his 1975 Bud Grant offensive scheme and his refusal to alter...anything. To simply absolve the head coach/Exec VP of Ops of all offensive woes and blame it entirely on the OL, the OC, Russ, injuries, the WRs, JS, etc, etc is foolhardy.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:12 pm
  • Fair enough, but you only need to outscore the other team by 1 point to win. You don't get style points for putting up 30 points each game. How many Sooper Bowls has Brees, Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan played in the past 5 or 6 years? Yup, none. Even Peyton Manning's 2015 Super Bowl winning year they got there and won because of the defense. In that time Pete's been to two SBs. New England's Belichick is the only other coach to lead a team to 2 or more SBs in the last 9 years. I understand we want the sexy and easy blowout wins, but in today's NFL a wins a win.

    Who know's how last year would have gone if Blair Walsh never played for us. A good kicker goes along way. If I had to fault him on one of my biggest complaints it's not demanding the best kicker possible - but that can be a crap shoot. I fault John more than Pete for the last 3 years because I think John really got caught up with freak athletes and SPARQ for a while hoping Pete would make home runs out of every player.And, lately he's scaled back to slightly above Tim Ruskell's level, but with a much cooler vibe to me. Even John's still trying to find the sweet spot. As the old saying goes, "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t."
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Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:59 pm
  • Yes. It’s time for him to leave. We all love the past, obviously. He won us our first Super Bowl and that was the most amazing feeling I had the pleasure to witness. Could have been two, but let’s not go into it.

    Ever since 49 our teams has went through a downward spiral. We have all witnessed it first hand.

    Our defense? Completely different. Not the worst, but not the best. Middle of the pack maybe? They’re better than our bottom 5 offense. That needs to be worked on or we’re going to be lucky to win 3-5 wins this year.

    Again, I’m not a pessimist by any means, but this team doesn’t have an identity and we’ve been awful on offense.

    On the bright side, our punter is hands down the best in the league. No question. We lucked out with him for sure. Also, Dissley has been fantastic too! I have a feeling he will help this team for sure. I love his explosiveness!

    We’re a good team that has had to endure a lot of change. I hope this team turns it around and kicks some ass.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:00 pm
  • nwHawk wrote:Fair enough, but you only need to outscore the other team by 1 point to win. You don't get style points for putting up 30 points each game. How many Sooper Bowls has Brees, Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan played in the past 5 or 6 years? Yup, none. Even Peyton Manning's 2015 Super Bowl winning year they got there and won because of the defense. In that time Pete's been to two SBs. New England's Belichick is the only other coach to lead a team to 2 or more SBs in the last 9 years. I understand we want the sexy and easy blowout wins, but in today's NFL a wins a win.

    Who know's how last year would have gone if Blair Walsh never played for us. A good kicker goes along way. If I had to fault him on one of my biggest complaints it's not demanding the best kicker possible - but that can be a crap shoot. I fault John more than Pete for the last 3 years because I think John really got caught up with freak athletes and SPARQ for a while hoping Pete would make home runs out of every player.And, lately he's scaled back to slightly above Tim Ruskell's level, but with a much cooler vibe to me. Even John's still trying to find the sweet spot. As the old saying goes, "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t."

    Nobody is asking for blowout wins, those are rare unless you're playing really bad teams on a regular basis. What needs to be addressed is the TOP and consistency on offense. The "win in the 4th quarter" mentality has cost the Seahawks a ton of games that we should have won. It has caused teams that should have been closed out linger. We were put in the situations that involved Blair Walsh due to Pete's offensive philosophy. Not doing anything until the 4th quarter is untenable, it contains a bunch of variables where if one thing goes wrong, the entire game is thrown. Sexy blowout wins are nice, but what we really need is consistency, and a ball control offense that sucks the life out of other teams. This is the style of offense that Peyton Manning won his last SuperBowl with, it's how the Raven's, Bucs, and early Steelers won. l.

    The issue with Pete Carroll's offense is he constantly chasing the big play. People described him as being conservative, when in reality it is quite the opposite. Greg Knapp was conservative, Pete is the exact opposite of that. He has a Mike Martz streak in him where low percentage plays are called in odd situations, expecting to catch teams off guard and getting a big play. This leads to stalled drives, and three and outs. We've abandoned the run when we should be running it, and we're throwing deep balls with no set up. This has been a trend with Pete Carroll, and it is absolutely killing our teams, and putting the Seahawks in bad positions with a lot of variables at the end of games. Yes, we could have won many of those games last season, you want to know why that didn't happen? Poor offensive strategy, and a broken system that places emphasis on low percentage plays above all else.

    In the next paragraph you talk about John Schneider being the problem. That is 100 percent BS. Pete Carroll makes all of the calls. He has the power to override anything Schneider does. Anything Schneider does must first go through Pete Carroll. It is how our system is set up. Blair Walsh is just a symptom of something much more sinister; a series of poor moves that have compounded on top of one another. It has been a trend since even back in 2013. At this point the Carroll regime has had more bad drafts than good. It is a valid question to ask "should we keep this guy around?".
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 pm
  • Let's say Pete is terminated. Would y'all be in favor of bringing back Holmgren? What about John Harbaugh if indeed he gets fired in Baltimore?
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 pm
  • Which is why Pete got back involved with the '17 draft and tweaked the evaluation criteria. The last two drafts have certainly been different than the previous ones after our 1st Sooper Bowl.

    Yes, Pete can over rule John but ask yourself this does Pete have the time to investigate everything. Nope, that's why you delegate tasks to employees and have the report back to you so you can make an informed decision.

    If getting rid of Pete is the best way to reach another Sooper Bowl, then I'm on board. But I don't want to relive the early 90s just because Pete's not perfect.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:25 pm
  • Hawker8989 wrote:Let's say Pete is terminated. Would y'all be in favor of bringing back Holmgren? What about John Harbaugh if indeed he gets fired in Baltimore?

    Holmgren is done coaching, he even said so himself. If it's Paul Allen that is doing the hiring (which it probably will be) I expect a big name with championship experience either at the NCAA, or at the NFL level. I always thought Urban Meyer would be called if Pete was shown the door or retired, but I don't know if that would still be the case after his latest scandal.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:34 pm
  • nwHawk wrote:Which is why Pete got back involved with the '17 draft and tweaked the evaluation criteria. The last two drafts have certainly been different than the previous ones after our 1st Sooper Bowl.

    Yes, Pete can over rule John but ask yourself this does Pete have the time to investigate everything. Nope, that's why you delegate tasks to employees and have the report back to you so you can make an informed decision.

    If getting rid of Pete is the best way to reach another Sooper Bowl, then I'm on board. But I don't want to relive the early 90s just because Pete's not perfect.

    Again, everything starts with Pete, and everything ends with Pete. He can overrule, and he has the ultimate power to decide whether guys are taken. He spends the whole off season scouting, and going over tape, he is very involved in the draft process. McDowell was a Pete pick. Hell, Pete Carroll even got the power to chose his own GM.

    Pete has peaked, he will never reach another Super Bowl again. I will tell you that much. Sticking with Pete is being mired in mediocrity, which is all we've been since 2015. What about Pete tells you that he can right this ship? Is it his long list of draft failures dating from 2013-2018? Is it the offensive system that is clearly broken that he refuses to fix? Perhaps its the trading away of all of our draft capital for players that either don't fit our scheme, or are just one year rent a players?

    This team has been managed very poorly for quite awhile now.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:51 pm
  • Hawker8989 wrote:Let's say Pete is terminated. Would y'all be in favor of bringing back Holmgren? What about John Harbaugh if indeed he gets fired in Baltimore?


    Hell no. We need to get some new blood and not rely on the past. It’s 2018 and this team needs someone who can shake it up and take us all the way.

    We’re not a bad team, but it’s inexcusable how we’ve performed overall.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:28 am
  • Hawker8989 wrote:Let's say Pete is terminated. Would y'all be in favor of bringing back Holmgren? What about John Harbaugh if indeed he gets fired in Baltimore?


    There’s a guy in town that’s coaching a team that’s ranked ... he could do it
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:57 am
  • hawksincebirth wrote:
    Hawker8989 wrote:Let's say Pete is terminated. Would y'all be in favor of bringing back Holmgren? What about John Harbaugh if indeed he gets fired in Baltimore?


    There’s a guy in town that’s coaching a team that’s ranked ... he could do it


    Would rather have Jim in Michigan but Chris if enticed would be interesting also. John had a team built by Ozzy and has not done a whole lot since Flacco got paid. Jim took a team in S.F. that under performed and almost made them a Champion.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:25 pm
  • nwHawk wrote: How many Sooper Bowls has Brees, Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan played in the past 5 or 6 years? Yup, none.


    Ryan was just in one 2 years ago.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:05 pm
  • The haters on the board certainly have a ‘Fire Pete’ agenda.

    Clearly he has a few blind spots and is not Bellichek, but he is a good defensive focused coach. He needs to delegate the O more and butt out more in making decisions for the O.

    The team under his leadership has done better than it has ever done before during it’s whole existence. Yes, perhaps the message from him needs updating a bit and maybe he recently has been more obtuse than normal but the point is he still has his team and his true message when it is followed by Pete himself is one which resonates and in fact works. Frankly I think he and John can rebuild the team. Some hard decisions may need to be made but I believe they can do it if Pete delegates some more authority.

    The O has perpetually underperformed the D during his regime, and that needs to change and Pete perhaps will find that to be a challenge. However, most of those Jonesing for a change have no legitimate suggestions to replace him, and the negativity seems based on numerous suspect premises.

    Count me clearly in the No! column.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:58 pm
  • Well said Jammer.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:23 pm
  • jammerhawk wrote:The haters on the board certainly have a ‘Fire Pete’ agenda.

    Clearly he has a few blind spots and is not Bellichek, but he is a good defensive focused coach. He needs to delegate the O more and butt out more in making decisions for the O.

    The team under his leadership has done better than it has ever done before during it’s whole existence. Yes, perhaps the message from him needs updating a bit and maybe he recently has been more obtuse than normal but the point is he still has his team and his true message when it is followed by Pete himself is one which resonates and in fact works. Frankly I think he and John can rebuild the team. Some hard decisions may need to be made but I believe they can do it if Pete delegates some more authority.

    The O has perpetually underperformed the D during his regime, and that needs to change and Pete perhaps will find that to be a challenge. However, most of those Jonesing for a change have no legitimate suggestions to replace him, and the negativity seems based on numerous suspect premises.

    Count me clearly in the No! column.

    Yes we beat a non playoff team ... lil late to the party jammer
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:21 pm
  • jammerhawk wrote:The haters on the board certainly have a ‘Fire Pete’ agenda.

    Clearly he has a few blind spots and is not Bellichek, but he is a good defensive focused coach. He needs to delegate the O more and butt out more in making decisions for the O.


    Yes.

    That is where the "hate" (It's not hate, it's truth.) lies. Level headed fans can acknowledge Pete is outstanding on Defense. Level headed fans also to should be able to acknowledge Pete is pretty damned bad on offense, both in personnel decisions, and schematically. It drags down the team, and keeps them from being their best.

    Beating Jason Garrett and the Cowboys at home, and trying to use it as an "I told you so" moment proves how bad things have gotten. "Pete" Ball won this week, and good job by him for tweaking some things, (feeding Carson, and more quick passes) but we aren't out of the woods yet.

    I want the team to continue to run the ball, and continue to win games. But I call it like it is. Don't confuse truth with hate.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:25 pm
  • Pete keeping his nose out of the offense was the key, over managing the team hurts, letting the guys do their jobs and just working with them on game plans is the key, game day let them do their jobs.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:29 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Pete keeping his nose out of the offense was the key, over managing the team hurts, letting the guys do their jobs and just working with them on game plans is the key, game day let them do their jobs.

    Ahhhhhhhh good old common ground
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:30 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:The haters on the board certainly have a ‘Fire Pete’ agenda.

    Clearly he has a few blind spots and is not Bellichek, but he is a good defensive focused coach. He needs to delegate the O more and butt out more in making decisions for the O.


    Yes.

    That is where the "hate" (It's not hate, it's truth.) lies. Level headed fans can acknowledge Pete is outstanding on Defense. Level headed fans also to should be able to acknowledge Pete is pretty damned bad on offense, both in personnel decisions, and schematically. It drags down the team, and keeps them from being their best.

    Beating Jason Garrett and the Cowboys at home, and trying to use it as an "I told you so" moment proves how bad things have gotten. "Pete" Ball won this week, and good job by him for tweaking some things, (feeding Carson, and more quick passes) but we aren't out of the woods yet.

    I want the team to continue to run the ball, and continue to win games. But I call it like it is. Don't confuse truth with hate.

    And I want people to give the new coordinators and position coaches more than 2 weeks before condemning them. We can't always get what we want.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:37 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:The haters on the board certainly have a ‘Fire Pete’ agenda.

    Clearly he has a few blind spots and is not Bellichek, but he is a good defensive focused coach. He needs to delegate the O more and butt out more in making decisions for the O.


    Yes.

    That is where the "hate" (It's not hate, it's truth.) lies. Level headed fans can acknowledge Pete is outstanding on Defense. Level headed fans also to should be able to acknowledge Pete is pretty damned bad on offense, both in personnel decisions, and schematically. It drags down the team, and keeps them from being their best.

    Beating Jason Garrett and the Cowboys at home, and trying to use it as an "I told you so" moment proves how bad things have gotten. "Pete" Ball won this week, and good job by him for tweaking some things, (feeding Carson, and more quick passes) but we aren't out of the woods yet.

    I want the team to continue to run the ball, and continue to win games. But I call it like it is. Don't confuse truth with hate.

    And I want people to give the new coordinators and position coaches more than 2 weeks before condemning them. We can't always get what we want.


    Normally I would to. But immediately after firing Bevell. Pete said the offense is staying the same, and it has looked as such.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:50 pm
  • Fade wrote:Normally I would to. But immediately after firing Bevell. Pete said the offense is staying the same, and it has looked as such.

    The offensive philosophy is staying the same: Run the ball and then take the top off the defense. How that vision is executed is where the differences come in between the coordinators and assistants.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:52 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:Normally I would to. But immediately after firing Bevell. Pete said the offense is staying the same, and it has looked as such.

    The offensive philosophy is staying the same: Run the ball and then take the top off the defense. How that vision is executed is where the differences come in between the coordinators and assistants.



    Agreed the TE is used much more in release routes as well as the running back getting the 5 to 8 yds or more when before it was complete or 3 and out. We just have to get more consistent at it.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:28 pm
  • What I fail to understand or get my head around is how I could think it's time to move on at all, yet I'm clearly in the minority on this.

    Pete's rebuilding this team, he will never admit it because that would go against his entire philosophy of always competing. Over half the forum would rather be rebuilding with someone else? You realize how often that fails right? You'd rather entrust some other random hire vs. the guy we've witnessed churn a horrible roster, within a couple years, into a dominant Superb Owl winning team?

    I know in todays day and age we expect instant gratification, but it rarely happens in football. So when you got a couple of guys who have done it before you gotta give them a chance. Especially with all the changes we went through last year to this year, and with the injury bug we've had so far. I mean, was anyone honestly expecting us to come out and crush it? I'm very excited for this team but have set my expectations real low intentionaly. I knew before this season started that we weren't likely going to be competing for the playoffs and might look really really bad at times. But that's the fun of it, that is what rebuilding is all about, seeing a team emerge as a contender out of the ashes.

    The grass is greener on the other side?.. Unlikely.

    Give the guy a couple more years.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:01 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:Normally I would to. But immediately after firing Bevell. Pete said the offense is staying the same, and it has looked as such.

    The offensive philosophy is staying the same: Run the ball and then take the top off the defense. How that vision is executed is where the differences come in between the coordinators and assistants.


    No.

    The playbook has remained largely the same. Pete already said Schotty had to come in and learn Pete's offense. The language and everything. 75% Pete. Pete allowed Schotty the other 25%.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:19 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:Normally I would to. But immediately after firing Bevell. Pete said the offense is staying the same, and it has looked as such.

    The offensive philosophy is staying the same: Run the ball and then take the top off the defense. How that vision is executed is where the differences come in between the coordinators and assistants.


    No.

    The playbook has remained largely the same. Pete already said Schotty had to come in and learn Pete's offense. The language and everything. 75% Pete. Pete allowed Schotty the other 25%.



    "If you put a number on it I'd say it's probably 70 percent of what they've done here and then maybe 30 percent of ideas from Mike and myself and some of the new guys," Schottenheimer said, per Bob Condotta of the Seattle Times. "It'd be crazy to ask some of the guys to learn a completely new system. I've been working extremely hard trying to get up to speed with the way they've done things. They've had so much success here that was easy for me to do. I'm excited about some of the things that we've added both in the run and pass game. I think that'll be something that is noticeably different. It's a comprehensive approach."

    Direct quote from Brian Schottenheimer. I think you're taking more from this than is meant. It sounds more like a transition of the offense to maintain knowledge versus changing it 100% and risking tons of mistakes. Sounds to me like the thoughts of a team rebuilding but not outright saying it.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:10 pm
  • Truth? Nope.
    Opinion? Yes.

    Big difference.

    It also says something when people admit when they’re wrong...or not. But, this just an opinion too.
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Re: Is it time to move on From Pete?
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:17 pm
  • That quote proves me right. Schotty had to learn Pete's scheme. LOL.
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