Seahawks.NET AMAZON STOREFRONT

Bevell not to blame?

The Essential Online Seattle Football Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:14 pm
  • Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).
    "You don't always get to play playoff games at home, or conference championships at home, or superbowls at home. You have to have the mindset that you can play to your potential wherever you are." - Pete Carroll
    User avatar
    nwHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1023
    Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:14 am


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:21 pm
  • What? Why would he do that? It cost him his job.
    adeltaY
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3281
    Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:22 pm
    Location: Portland, OR


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:23 pm
  • nwHawk wrote:Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).

    If you're an offensive coordinator, you're trying to work around our teams limitations, and the other teams limitations on defense. Our line was clearly was the weak spot. Despite this we continued to run long developing plays such as deep crossing routes. There was no real checkdown options in many cases. That is now how you mask your teams major deficiency, the offensive line. If you want to slow down the pass rush you start running misdirection plays such as screens, delayed draws and counters. Furthermore you HAVE to run plays that are designed to get the ball out of your hands quickly like slants, hooks, outs, and comebacks.

    The Seahawks have always ignored this common sense wisdom and have ran go routes, deep post routes, fades, and corners. Plays that take a long time to develop and are inherently low percentage plays.
    Spin Doctor
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2706
    Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:31 am


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:23 pm
  • Wilson is the common denominator. He makes the other 10 guys plus the coaches look bad.
    northseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 757
    Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:25 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:24 pm
  • Bevell is an average to below average OC who did what Pete asked. When you have a guy like Marshawn getting positive yards even when hit in the backfield, your offense will do good things. He also had one of the most unique QBs in the NFL who took it by storm with crazy heroics which weren’t scripted at all. When teams learned how to keep Russ in the pocket and marshawn was done, we saw what happens. Schotty is just Bevell in khaki pants.
    User avatar
    mistaowen
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4454
    Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:54 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:29 pm
  • I'm not seeing Russ go throw progressions at any point - this season or last!
    "You don't always get to play playoff games at home, or conference championships at home, or superbowls at home. You have to have the mindset that you can play to your potential wherever you are." - Pete Carroll
    User avatar
    nwHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1023
    Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:14 am


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:30 pm
  • He does lock on to his first read too often, but that's different from flat out not going through your progressions
    adeltaY
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3281
    Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:22 pm
    Location: Portland, OR


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:32 pm
  • northseahawk wrote:Wilson is the common denominator. He makes the other 10 guys plus the coaches look bad.

    When Wilson is in control, you could the difference in the offense. This is all on Pete and how he wants the offense to work.
    SkyHawks16
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 98
    Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:04 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:36 pm
  • nwHawk wrote:I'm not seeing Russ go throw progressions at any point - this season or last!


    Normally I stay away from calling out individual posters - but this is categorically incorrect. There are 20+ of us on this board that could sit with you and watch the all-22 and show you the multiple check downs and reads Wilson does in each game, including this one. On multiple of his sacks he had been through each progression and none of them were open, hence the sacks.
    “How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”

    - Henry David Thoreau
    User avatar
    bbsplitter
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 506
    Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:39 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:52 pm
  • Man I miss blaming these losses on Bevell.
    User avatar
    TwilightError
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1028
    Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:28 am


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:20 pm
  • Its either russ or pete or both.
    Shanegotyou11
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1657
    Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:08 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:48 pm
  • It has always been Cables fault. He sucked the life out of this team. At this point, I feel that your team's offensive line coach is the most important hire your team makes. Can we beg Howard Mudd to come out of retirement? He lives here in Seattle. It will take Solari three years to fix Cables mess. The Patriots went two seasons without Scarnecchia as their Oline coach before they fired the dude that replaced him and begged for him to come back.
    User avatar
    sdog1981
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2204
    Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:54 am


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:19 pm
  • mistaowen wrote:Bevell is an average to below average OC who did what Pete asked. When you have a guy like Marshawn getting positive yards even when hit in the backfield, your offense will do good things. He also had one of the most unique QBs in the NFL who took it by storm with crazy heroics which weren’t scripted at all. When teams learned how to keep Russ in the pocket and marshawn was done, we saw what happens. Schotty is just Bevell in khaki pants.

    Well said. I don't think Bevell was a very creative play-caller or anything (I doubt Pete would have allowed this anyways), and the fact he didn't get hired this year despite having a SuperBowl under his belt tells you something. But there are deeper problems that have exposed themselves.

    I'd also add that in addition to Lynch, we actually had a half-decent (albeit overpaid) run-blocking o-line back then (plus a dual-threat tight-end).

    Wilson just doesn't look the same, and I agree it's likely that defenses have figured him out. I also suspect years of poor offensive lines have hurt his development in terms of pocket presence. He managed to out-last the other read-option style quarterbacks since he actually has a good arm and can turn scrambles into huge plays instead of just quarterback rushes. He still has some nice plays, but just doesn't seem to have that same "magic" anymore.
    SeahawksCanuck
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 102
    Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:39 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:58 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    nwHawk wrote:Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).

    If you're an offensive coordinator, you're trying to work around our teams limitations, and the other teams limitations on defense. Our line was clearly was the weak spot. Despite this we continued to run long developing plays such as deep crossing routes. There was no real checkdown options in many cases. That is now how you mask your teams major deficiency, the offensive line. If you want to slow down the pass rush you start running misdirection plays such as screens, delayed draws and counters. Furthermore you HAVE to run plays that are designed to get the ball out of your hands quickly like slants, hooks, outs, and comebacks.

    The Seahawks have always ignored this common sense wisdom and have ran go routes, deep post routes, fades, and corners. Plays that take a long time to develop and are inherently low percentage plays.



    I agree completely with your statement. We should try the west coast offense by the 49ers before. Not going for the long bomb but getting short 5-10 yard gains at a time. Short routes, quick throws, screens, and run the ball more to keep the defense guessing!
    User avatar
    Blindside
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 25
    Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:01 pm
    Location: Philippines


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:22 pm
  • ^ omg been saying it for years. Why his coaching staff has refused to move the chain by short passes I don’t understand. It does the same thing as running the ball
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7433
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:31 am
  • SkyHawks16 wrote:
    northseahawk wrote:Wilson is the common denominator. He makes the other 10 guys plus the coaches look bad.

    When Wilson is in control, you could the difference in the offense. This is all on Pete and how he wants the offense to work.

    When a team is up big (like 24-10) or when their isn't much time left on the clock (2-minute drill), defenses start conceding yardage to help milk the clock. A defense will gladly concede a 15-yard completion over the middle if it means eating up 25 seconds of clock time. There is a reason the offense runs more smoothly in situations like that -- the defenses are baiting them into milking the clock.
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:38 am
  • nwHawk wrote:Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).

    Here's my issue: if Bevell was such a terrible offensive coordinator, how did Wilson have such an illustrious beginning to his career (101.8 passer rating over his first four years)?

    Let's hypothetically accept that Bevell was "terrible" (just for the sake of argument). What would Wilson's numbers have looked like with a brilliant offensive mind? With Bevell, Wilson had the second-best passer rating from 2012-2015 (second to only Rodgers), and he lead the league in Y/A during that span. He was efficient and explosive. We were also DVOA offensive darlings.

    People want to simultaneously believe that:
    1) Wilson had a HOF-caliber beginning to his career + was one of the most effective/efficient QBs during that span, and,
    2) he was greatly held back and hindered by Bevell

    Come on. It's absolutely preposterous to believe that both of those things simultaneously occurred. Bevell was fine, and the stats bear that out.
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:01 am
  • There was an ex-Steeler OC available.

    Say what you will about the Steelers but you cannot dispute they could score in bunches.

    We didn't have to land on Shoddy but for Pete.


    That said, Bevell had to go. He was a problem on the Vikings with all the weapons there too. We got a crappier version of that because of Pete's insistence on impact plays at the expense of consistency. But it is too big a jump to say Bevell literally was making this team better.

    What is missing is the defense holding things together for 3 quarters so the offense can score their lone 2 TDs in the 4th to come back from a TD down. Instead, we were down 2 TDs+ so that final drive just resulted in losing by close to or more than a TD.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3355
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:48 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:08 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    nwHawk wrote:Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).

    Here's my issue: if Bevell was such a terrible offensive coordinator, how did Wilson have such an illustrious beginning to his career (101.8 passer rating over his first four years)?

    Let's hypothetically accept that Bevell was "terrible" (just for the sake of argument). What would Wilson's numbers have looked like with a brilliant offensive mind? With Bevell, Wilson had the second-best passer rating from 2012-2015 (second to only Rodgers), and he lead the league in Y/A during that span. He was efficient and explosive. We were also DVOA offensive darlings.

    People want to simultaneously believe that:
    1) Wilson had a HOF-caliber beginning to his career + was one of the most effective/efficient QBs during that span, and,
    2) he was greatly held back and hindered by Bevell

    Come on. It's absolutely preposterous to believe that both of those things simultaneously occurred. Bevell was fine, and the stats bear that out.


    excellent post.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ++ You can call me a homer, but I am not the only one ++
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    toffee
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1328
    Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:44 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:09 am
  • Bevell needed to go after SB 49 not because it was (entirely) his fault, just because the team needed to reboot and he would have been the easy scapegoat. They kept him too long after that, trust was gone. Finally getting rid of him is better late than never, BUT by keeping everything the same and thus having the same issues. Now the blame is quickly shifting to RW and PC. I don't think people would be as annoyed if we saw something different on the field despite the losses, because it says they're trying something different. When they're trying more of the same and STILL failing, well...the definition of insanity is rearing it's ugly head right here.
    ZagHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1454
    Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:42 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:14 am
  • bbsplitter wrote:
    nwHawk wrote:I'm not seeing Russ go throw progressions at any point - this season or last!


    Normally I stay away from calling out individual posters - but this is categorically incorrect. There are 20+ of us on this board that could sit with you and watch the all-22 and show you the multiple check downs and reads Wilson does in each game, including this one. On multiple of his sacks he had been through each progression and none of them were open, hence the sacks.


    Doesn’t mean they weren’t open, only means that he chose not to pass the ball...or couldn’t see them. Russell leaves guys open all the time while taking sacks.
    User avatar
    LoneHawkFan
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 459
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:34 am


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:41 am
  • ZagHawk wrote:Bevell needed to go after SB 49 not because it was (entirely) his fault, just because the team needed to reboot and he would have been the easy scapegoat. They kept him too long after that, trust was gone. Finally getting rid of him is better late than never, BUT by keeping everything the same and thus having the same issues. Now the blame is quickly shifting to RW and PC. I don't think people would be as annoyed if we saw something different on the field despite the losses, because it says they're trying something different. When they're trying more of the same and STILL failing, well...the definition of insanity is rearing it's ugly head right here.


    That's the thing that just rubs me wrong. Every prior experience should be informative of future action. Well not every, you do need a filter. The offense is falling into the exact same traps at the exact same spots despite falling into those traps repeatedly in the past 2 seasons. Now one could argue that the offensive talent is so threadbare that it is inevitable, especially if RW is not the QB many of us imagine.

    On the other hand, I see other NFL teams seem to actually try and custom tailor their offense around the talent they do have. And actual tactical initiative. Can anyone reference a moment this season with anything approaching that? Was that first Dissly touchdown it?
    mrt144
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3309
    Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:21 pm


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:22 pm
  • Bevel was an average OC. He wasn't the big problem. The coach responsible for the run game and protection on pass plays was the problem, and it will take two to three years to fully eliminate the stink he left on this team.

    We had plenty of backs who could execute Carroll's ball control dream, but they were held back by a coach who shouldn't even be in the league.

    We have a QB who could be elite, given even a modicum of protection, instead he is shell shocked.

    Hopefully they can rebuild the line before Russ is completely destroyed.

    The reason Bevel needed to go was "The Play." It was a bad play design/ call, and it destroyed the team.
    Fire Tom Cable

    Still can't believe we let Alex Collins go
    User avatar
    bigskydoc
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2386
    Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:27 am
    Location: Kalispell, MT


Re: Bevell not to blame?
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:06 pm
  • Bevell absolutely was a problem, but as we're finding out Carroll was really running the show. The offense is very similar to Bevell's. The only thing I'm noting that is different is our usage of TE's (much better imo), and more formations under the center rather than in the shotgun.
    Spin Doctor
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2706
    Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:31 am




It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:37 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information