Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers

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Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 pm
  • Shotty must have thought he was on that pick 6
    Crizilla
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:20 pm
  • Is he top 5 though?
    Cyrus12
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Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:23 pm
  • The way he is playing, he is top 5 from the bottom.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:24 pm
  • I don't want to pay this guy.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:31 pm
  • King Dog wrote:I don't want to pay this guy.

    Luckily you won’t be making that choice. Put an competent offensive line around him and you’ll get different results.

    ....and don’t get me wrong Russ played like pure crap tonight, no excuses.
    He reminded me of QB that played in Auburn a couple of weeks ago, he was that bad tonight!
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:32 pm
  • I don't get why Penny was split out that far, and get even less why Russ actually threw it to him.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:35 pm
  • Not gonna get into the Russell belittling and bickering. Russell had a rough night. Growing pains. Tough schedule. No consistency on offense. Defenses know to just plaster our receivers and focus all attention on Russell

    I still say we’ll pick up steam, but there’s no point saying that now. In a few weeks there’ll be a different narrative
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:35 pm
  • Wilson is not the problem. It’s coaching. He’s good when our offense is spread. This coaching staff is terrible.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:35 pm
  • King Dog wrote:I don't want to pay this guy.


    2nd!!
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:36 pm
  • Jesus Christ on a bicycle, who has done more with less people? Not without fault by any means and he will be first to take blame. But seriously, shit line, claim run identity yet stop running, call up all pocket passing when guy has no pocket, never scheme to strengths/weaknesses.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:48 pm
  • The play calling is poor, yes. We need to run the ball more. But Wilson on that pick 6 was a rookie again. I'm hoping Wilson evolves but it may take some time. Rodgers or Brady would have spied the corner, saw that the corner wasn't falling back, then decided to throw to another receiver. On that pick 6 play, Marshall was the guy Wilson should have thrown to. He was wide open in the middle of the field.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:11 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    King Dog wrote:I don't want to pay this guy.

    Luckily you won’t be making that choice. Put an competent offensive line around him and you’ll get different results.

    ....and don’t get me wrong Russ played like pure crap tonight, no excuses.
    He reminded me of QB that played in Auburn a couple of weeks ago, he was that bad tonight!


    Remember the "Fire Bevell" chants we'd get around 2015? The OL has been that bad since at least then. What's different is that Russ is demonstrably declining.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:29 pm
  • It's freaking disrespectful mention Wilson in same sentence as Beady and Rodgers!!!!!!
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:33 pm
  • northseahawk wrote:It's freaking disrespectful mention Wilson in same sentence as Beady and Rodgers!!!!!!


    We heard you the first hundred times.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:34 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    King Dog wrote:I don't want to pay this guy.

    Luckily you won’t be making that choice. Put an competent offensive line around him and you’ll get different results.

    ....and don’t get me wrong Russ played like pure crap tonight, no excuses.
    He reminded me of QB that played in Auburn a couple of weeks ago, he was that bad tonight!


    That has proven to be Pete's biggest fault and miscalculation. Pay everyone else and cheap on the O- Line and in 4 years Pete is incapable of building 1 that will not destroy his #1 asset.

    Changing the QB will likely make it worse....we are toast with Pete running "his" offense.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 pm
  • northseahawk wrote:It's freaking disrespectful mention Wilson in same sentence as Beady and Rodgers!!!!!!


    Well you remember the 2015 GB game. Yeah, Russ gets credit for the W but if you look at the game, you can see signs of the decline.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:44 pm
  • See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

    Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


    Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


    Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
    Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
    Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

    Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


    What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

    Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
    They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

    It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

    See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:49 pm
  • Fade wrote:See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

    Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


    Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


    Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
    Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
    Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

    Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


    What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

    Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
    They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

    It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

    See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.


    This is all very true. Had a feeling that PC bringing in Schotty but saying same offensive strategy was going to be an issue. Doesn't look like he learned a damn thing about offense as a head coach. Pretty pathetic.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:50 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:The play calling is poor, yes. We need to run the ball more. But Wilson on that pick 6 was a rookie again. I'm hoping Wilson evolves but it may take some time. Rodgers or Brady would have spied the corner, saw that the corner wasn't falling back, then decided to throw to another receiver. On that pick 6 play, Marshall was the guy Wilson should have thrown to. He was wide open in the middle of the field.



    Wilson is not at Rodgers or Brady’s level yet, but let’s not pretend as if both Qbs don’t throw pick sixes. In fact, in recent years they’ve probably thrown more than Wilson. Let’s not make stuff up to bolster criticism. Russ’ crappy game gives more than enough material for criticism
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:52 pm
  • northseahawk wrote:It's freaking disrespectful mention Wilson in same sentence as Beady and Rodgers!!!!!!



    Lol! You’re right, it is because Wilson’s career is far from over

    Brady wasn’t Brady until 07. Rodgers has always been Rodgers. I know you pray for our QB to fail but there’s still plenty of chapters to go in his career
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:52 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:The play calling is poor, yes. We need to run the ball more. But Wilson on that pick 6 was a rookie again. I'm hoping Wilson evolves but it may take some time. Rodgers or Brady would have spied the corner, saw that the corner wasn't falling back, then decided to throw to another receiver. On that pick 6 play, Marshall was the guy Wilson should have thrown to. He was wide open in the middle of the field.



    Wilson is not at Rodgers or Brady’s level yet, but let’s not pretend as if both Qbs don’t throw pick sixes. In fact, in recent years they’ve probably thrown more than Wilson. Let’s not make stuff up to bolster criticism. Russ’ crappy game gives more than enough material for criticism


    I think Rodgers has thrown one, maybe two pick sixes in his entire career.

    I believe Wilson now has two in the regular season.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:53 pm
  • Fade wrote:See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

    Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


    Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


    Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
    Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
    Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

    Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


    What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

    Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
    They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

    It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

    See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.


    Great post. Schotty is a net neutral/negative change from bevell. Offenses that remain dominant innovate and change to the league. We’re still running the same offense from 2013 thinking marshawn is gonna get 100 yards a night. I really wish they had gone the opposite from bevell and got a young, up and coming offensive mind with a new style instead of another plateaued bevell offense.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
  • mistaowen wrote:
    Fade wrote:See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

    Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


    Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


    Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
    Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
    Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

    Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


    What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

    Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
    They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

    It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

    See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.


    Great post. Schotty is a net neutral/negative change from bevell. Offenses that remain dominant innovate and change to the league. We’re still running the same offense from 2013 thinking marshawn is gonna get 100 yards a night. I really wish they had gone the opposite from bevell and got a young, up and coming offensive mind with a new style instead of another plateaued bevell offense.


    I wish we had the read option
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:07 am
  • Rat wrote:I don't get why Penny was split out that far, and get even less why Russ actually threw it to him.


    They used to do it with Lynch all the time and I remember at least one pick while making that throw. Makes you wonder how much the offense has really changed.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:34 am
  • King Dog wrote:I don't want to pay this guy.

    That’s what got us in this mess in the first place.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:49 am
  • 2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
    You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:15 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
    You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.


    Non-existent adjustment at the Line, staring down receivers, taking 2 quarters to warm up and become competent, failing to throw to open receivers in the middle, not letting the routes develop, risk averse at throwing in close windows, excessive Heroballing down the field...all this is year 7....yep these had nothing to do with the critiques people are levying on him...
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:16 am
  • Believe what you want. This is a team wide problem on offense. The play calling and o line is extremely pathetic. The run was working, YET AGAIN, and they gave up on it, YET AGAIN. Yes, Russ held on to the ball too long yesterday. How in the world is he supposed to be comfortable behind a swiss cheese O Line and w/play calling that flat out doesn't work?
    But to act like he's some horrible QB is just plain dumb. But I expect nothing less on here.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:31 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
    You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.

    LOL
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:36 am
  • DJ_CJ wrote:Jesus Christ on a bicycle, who has done more with less people? Not without fault by any means and he will be first to take blame. But seriously, shit line, claim run identity yet stop running, call up all pocket passing when guy has no pocket, never scheme to strengths/weaknesses.


    Nailed it. No one has ever done more with less than Russ.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:47 am
  • The Wilson hate is absolutely baffling. The problem is obvious to everyone outside of the Seattle. Its not Russ its Pete. I love Pete and everything hes done for the organization but he's the problem. He's stubborn to a fault with his archaic view of how an offense should be ran. He needed to hire someone who would challenge him, someone who is innovative and able to work in todays NFL and instead he hired another yes man who hasn't been successful at a single stop in his career who bragged about wanting to run into stacked boxes because thats hard nosed football and its completely ridiculous. Pete also has his hands in the offense when he shouldnt. He even alluded to it during the post game when he said he had Schott doing some things in the middle of the game.
    Can you guys imagine Russ in KC? Philly? NE? Pitts? He would have multiple mvps by now. He is the second highest rated passer OF ALL TIME, led the league in TD's last year playing on a terrible offensive scheme, with an historically bad line and no run game and yet you guys think he's the problem lol. Can he play better? Sure but the whole process is set up to work against him. I can guarantee you that personnel guys around the league are laughing at how Seattle has approached Wilson and their offense in general the past few years. If I'm Russell and Pete is still there then I leave when I can.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:46 am
  • Wilson has the highest passer rating for a players first 5 seasons in NFL history. Without Wilson the Seahawks are still a franchise without a Super Bowl.

    Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate.

    The Russell Wilson hate is mind blowing. The guy has made this franchise relevant. I almost hope he gets traded at this point just so you can see how dumb of an idea that turns out to be.
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Reason: Opinions on other posters is not the topic
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:59 am
  • After they beat the Cowboys, the back tracking will be a blast. And yes, they are going to beat the Cowboys.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:11 am
  • Fade wrote:See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

    Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


    Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


    Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
    Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
    Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

    Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


    What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

    Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
    They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

    It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

    See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

    Coaching is not everything. What coaching is is a convenient scapegoat to deflect blame from players. Players need to execute. If they don't execute, nothing else matters.

    You're just cherry-picking examples. I can do that too. Everyone here hates Darrel Bevell. He is universally regarded as terrible (now I'm seeing -- predictably -- comments like, "Schotty is equal to, if not worse than Bevell"). I could say, "did you know that in 2009, Brett Favre put up arguably the best year of his career [33 TD, 7 INT, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 Y/A] under a Darrell Bevell offense?"

    Or, you cite the 2016 Falcons. Yes, they were an offensive juggernaut. You're right. Matt Ryan had career highs in many categories, and had an explosive year overall (38 TD, 7 INT, 117.1 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A). Here's what you left out: Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator in 2015 too, and the Ryan and the Falcons were very pedestrian.
    Ryan, 2015 (Kyle Shanahan): 21 TD, 16 INT, 89.0 passer rating, 7.4 Y/A (21.2 PPG - T21st in the NFL)
    Ryan, 2017 (Steve Sarkisian): 20 TD, 12 INT, 91.4 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A (22.1 PPG - 15th in the NFL)

    Alex Smith "broke out" in 2011, and transformed into a pretty good QB. This was under Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman, who -- like Pete et al. -- were regarded as dinosaurs that failed to evolve. Then, he got traded to Kansas City, and got to play underneath Andy Reid, a very creative offensive playcaller. Here's a comparison of his numbers:
    Smith, 2011-2012 (SF, "old school" scheme): 64.3 CMP%, 4.5 TD%, 1.5%, 95.1 passer rating
    Smith, 2013-2017 (KC, innovative mind in Andy Reid): 65.1 CMP%, 4.2 TD%, 1.4%, 94.8 passer rating

    Andy Dalton had the best year of his career (25 TD, 7 INT, 106.3 passer rating) under Hue Jackson. Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick continued to look a lot like... Colin Kaepernick, even after being paired with one of the most creative offensive minds in Chip Kelly. I could go on and on.

    I do believe that coaching and scheme matters. However, execution is equally as important. This is where fans start to lose objectivity. Any time a play, or drive, fails, they immediately blame the coaches. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if your quarterback is gunshy or starts abandoning clean pockets, it does not matter. Wilson is one of the hardest players in the league to coach because of how often he goes off-script. A scheme can get players open, but if your QB isn't making the reads or the throws, it doesn't matter.

    The other area where fans are misguided is this eternally hopeful mindset that a player is going to continue to improve, and that his deficiencies are going to disappear. Eventually players plateau, and you accept they are who they are. If players always got better and improved, you wouldn't see guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford and such peak at good-but-not-great players. I'm not saying Wilson is Joe Flacco-level, I'm just saying that all QBs have flaws, and often times they are just inherent to who a player is. No amount of coaching is going to make them magically disappear. Wilson is also 30 in a couple months. I'm not holding my breath that this guy is going to continue to improve as his speed and lightning-quick evasion starts to wane -- he needs that to compensate for his height.

    For some fans, Wilson never gets the blame. It's always someone else's fault. It's his weapons. It's his line. It's Bevell. It's Schotty. It's Pete. You know, in spite of all of these external factors, there's one constant here... Wilson himself.
    Last edited by JimmyG on Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:15 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:After they beat the Cowboys, the back tracking will be a blast. And yes, they are going to beat the Cowboys.


    I hope you're right. They have to win that game. Have to.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:33 am
  • Gonna' come home angry, hopefully get a couple guys back and play with some fire. I fully expect them to drive us crazy in the 1st half and decide to play in the 2nd half yet again. Because, you know, that's not maddening or anything :lol:
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:11 am
  • ludakrishna wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:2nd pick 6 of his entire career, and now people are giving up him.
    You guys are ridiculous. Try not to go kick a puppy today too.


    Non-existent adjustment at the Line, staring down receivers, taking 2 quarters to warm up and become competent, failing to throw to open receivers in the middle, not letting the routes develop, risk averse at throwing in close windows, excessive Heroballing down the field...all this is year 7....yep these had nothing to do with the critiques people are levying on him...


    Make up your mind. You want him to not hold onto the ball, yet you want him to rush his throws. You know he has weak protection but you attack him for it

    Every NFL expert is analyzing that Wilson was given very little room for error. The little offesnse we did have was no huddle, and that’s when Wilson excelled. So no, he didn’t have 2 quarters to warm up, he simply took over. And if you read Chicago sports articles, Prince basically said he knew Russ would be rushed to throw and so he could risk jumping the route. That’s what happened

    There’s a difference between objective debate and having an agenda. It’s clear that you didn’t come to debate what the game actually showed but to instead, place all the blame on Wilson
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:15 am
  • JustinCredible wrote:
    Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate. .


    It's a two way street, any hot commodity young dynamic OC doesn't want to play for a coach like Pete who meddles and has final say on situational playcalling.

    Just ask Bevell who Pete overrode in the SB and called the pass play. So any new and upcoming OC sees that dynamic and is going to go elsewhere.........................voila, Brian Schottenheimer!
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:25 am
  • Largent, you are very likely correct.

    I actually think that is why Bevell was not fired after the SB.

    Pete at least has the ethics to not fire someone for something he did. Pretty clear to me that the one that called the terrible play that lost us the SB was Pete not Bevell. I was hoping that removing Bevell would remove the problem but it was a low % shot. I knew it was probably Pete.

    Because Pete seems to have to run a lot of the offense through his lens first.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:27 am
  • Until they change something, he could very well continue to be uncomfortable in there. We were sold a lie. There will be lots of changes, we will pound the rock, we will change things up to help Russ feel more confident etc.
    None of these things have happened. You have one of the best QB's in the league WHEN YOU ALLOW HIM TO PLAY TO HIS STRENGHTS, yet you're not doing a thing to help him.
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:28 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    Fade wrote:See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    Look at franchise QBs around the league, and you will find that they have a great offensive mind either at Head Coach, or Offensive Coordinator to elevate their play, to give them a great scheme that extenuates their strengths.

    Pete is running a dated offense Jeff Fisher style, he even brought in Schottenheimer from the Rams to perfect it. What a disaster.


    Tribisky is a dumpster fire at QB, but the play design, and scheme he was in was far more modern, and designed to take advantage of Wilson's strengths. Much better than what Wilson had to deal with tonight in his own scheme. Tribisky just cannot throw accurately he missed open recievers all night. Every ball Wilson threw was in a tight window, with blanketed receivers.


    Rank Seattle's Offensive Scheme among the other 32 teams.
    Rank Seattle's Weapons among the other 32 teams.
    Rank the Offensive Line among the other 32 teams.

    Now contrast those rankings with Rodgers, Brees, & Brady. You will quickly come to the conclusion. Wilson gets the short end of the stick in all categories.


    What I find so baffling is why people are so pissed at Wilson, when it is Carroll who has been in charge of this mess for 5 years. That is a half a decade of getting worse every year. How many more years do people need to realize Pete lost the plot a long time ago.

    Trading Wilson won't make the team better, it will make them even worse. There is nowhere to go but down at QB.... but
    They could significantly get better @ scheming, OL, & Skill players. That is where the team could make the biggest leap.

    It won't happen though until Pete is gone. Pete is not going to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and hit on a bunch of amazing players in the draft in a 3 year period. Nope. They are going to have to build it the old-fashioned way around a franchise QB, Pete Carroll doesn't know how. He knows defense. He doesn't know offense.

    See Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher. Now see Jared Goff with Sean McVay. Coaching is everything.

    See Matt Ryan with Kyle Shanahan. Now see Matt Ryan with Sark. Coaching is everything.

    Coaching is not everything. What coaching is is a convenient scapegoat to deflect blame from players. Players need to execute. If they don't execute, nothing else matters.

    You're just cherry-picking examples. I can do that too. Everyone here hates Darrel Bevell. He is universally regarded as terrible (now I'm seeing -- predictably -- comments like, "Schotty is equal to, if not worse than Bevell"). I could say, "did you know that in 2009, Brett Favre put up arguably the best year of his career [33 TD, 7 INT, 107.2 passer rating, 7.9 Y/A] under a Darrell Bevell offense?"

    Or, you cite the 2016 Falcons. Yes, they were an offensive juggernaut. You're right. Matt Ryan had career highs in many categories, and had an explosive year overall (38 TD, 7 INT, 117.1 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A). Here's what you left out: Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator in 2015 too, and the Ryan and the Falcons were very pedestrian.
    Ryan, 2015 (Kyle Shanahan): 21 TD, 16 INT, 89.0 passer rating, 7.4 Y/A (21.2 PPG - T21st in the NFL)
    Ryan, 2017 (Steve Sarkisian): 20 TD, 12 INT, 91.4 passer rating, 7.7 Y/A (22.1 PPG - 15th in the NFL)

    Alex Smith "broke out" in 2011, and transformed into a pretty good QB. This was under Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman, who -- like Pete et al. -- were regarded as dinosaurs that failed to evolve. Then, he got traded to Kansas City, and got to play underneath Andy Reid, a very creative offensive playcaller. Here's a comparison of his numbers:
    Smith, 2011-2012 (SF, "old school" scheme): 64.3 CMP%, 4.5 TD%, 1.5%, 95.1 passer rating
    Smith, 2013-2017 (KC, innovative mind in Andy Reid): 65.1 CMP%, 4.2 TD%, 1.4%, 94.8 passer rating

    Andy Dalton had the best year of his career (25 TD, 7 INT, 106.3 passer rating) under Hue Jackson. Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick continued to look a lot like... Colin Kaepernick, even after being paired with one of the most creative offensive minds in Chip Kelly. I could go on and on.

    I do believe that coaching and scheme matters. However, execution is equally as important. This is where fans start to lose objectivity. Any time a play, or drive, fails, they immediately blame the coaches. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if your quarterback is gunshy or starts abandoning clean pockets, it does not matter. Wilson is one of the hardest players in the league to coach because of how often he goes off-script. A scheme can get players open, but if your QB isn't making the reads or the throws, it doesn't matter.

    The other area where fans are misguided is this eternally hopeful mindset that a player is going to continue to improve, and that his deficiencies are going to disappear. Eventually players plateau, and you accept they are who they are. If players always got better and improved, you wouldn't see guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford and such peak at good-but-not-great players. I'm not saying Wilson is Joe Flacco-level, I'm just saying that all QBs have flaws, and often times they are just inherent to who a player is. No amount of coaching is going to make them magically disappear. Wilson is also 30 in a couple months. I'm not holding my breath that this guy is going to continue to improve as his speed and lightning-quick evasion starts to wane -- he needs that to compensate for his height.

    For some fans, Wilson never gets the blame. It's always someone else's fault. It's his weapons. It's his line. It's Bevell. It's Schotty. It's Pete. You know, in spite of all of these external factors, there's one constant here... Wilson himself.


    Wilson deserves the blame for all of the obviously atrocious things he's doing. But...but...We've seen him play much better than THIS even while not being close to ideal and lacking a certain sharpness we crave. This isn't just a lack of sharpness, this is like mental lethargy and emotionless fatalism smashed into one.

    The issue remains though, how do you get players to play better and simply execute - you coach them. And if you're at the point where you think players are uncoachable on the team, well, then that just isn't an average team or average coaching staff.
    Last edited by mrt144 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:28 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Largent, you are very likely correct.

    I actually think that is why Bevell was not fired after the SB.

    Pete at least has the ethics to not fire someone for something he did. Pretty clear to me that the one that called the terrible play that lost us the SB was Pete not Bevell. I was hoping that removing Bevell would remove the problem but it was a low % shot. I knew it was probably Pete.

    Because Pete seems to have to run a lot of the offense through his lens first.


    Largent is right. When you look objectively and reasonably at Carroll, the ship has sailed.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:29 am
  • mrt after the Hawks win on Sunday: "Russ is my boy!"

    No wait, that would take actually admitting that he's pretty damn good.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:30 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JustinCredible wrote:
    Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate. .


    It's a two way street, any hot commodity young dynamic OC doesn't want to play for a coach like Pete who meddles and has final say on situational playcalling.

    Just ask Bevell who Pete overrode in the SB and called the pass play. So any new and upcoming OC sees that dynamic and is going to go elsewhere.........................voila, Brian Schottenheimer!


    2 for 2 this morning....agree!! :2thumbs:

    +1,000,000,000

    I would like to add also. This is why Pete could not fire Bevell after "the play". Pete told him to pass and he got what he asked for. Yes it was a stupid option up the middle, but it was a pass.

    You fire the guy for doing what you asked him to do, and you lose the team and no coach of any stature will work for you again.

    So...you could accurately say that Pete's meddling is the main cause for the downfall of the entire team.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:33 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JustinCredible wrote:
    Russell Wilson is the franchise. The problem is Pete playing it safe with the OC hire. It was a boring hire of a guy that won't threaten Pete's job. The Vikings got a stud of an OC while we hired scraps right out of the gate. .


    It's a two way street, any hot commodity young dynamic OC doesn't want to play for a coach like Pete who meddles and has final say on situational playcalling.

    Just ask Bevell who Pete overrode in the SB and called the pass play. So any new and upcoming OC sees that dynamic and is going to go elsewhere.........................voila, Brian Schottenheimer!


    2 for 2 this morning....agree!! :2thumbs:

    +1,000,000,000

    I would like to add also. This is why Pete could not fire Bevell after "the play". Pete told him to pass and he got what he asked for. Yes it was a stupid option up the middle, but it was a pass.

    You fire the guy for doing what you asked him to do, and you lose the team and no coach of any stature will work for you again.

    So...you could accurately say that Pete's meddling is the main cause for the downfall of the entire team.


    Unfortunately you don’t fire the guy for doing what you asked and you lose the team.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:35 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:mrt after the Hawks win on Sunday: "Russ is my boy!"

    No wait, that would take actually admitting that he's pretty damn good.


    Make no mistake - I am a huge fan of RW but he just doesn't look with it at the moment. I regularly carry water for him because I recognize he's an odd cat that has found success in spite of some limitations and people trying to diminish him based on how he doesn't fit in their schema. The fact I'm even calling this a slump should inform you that I'm holding out hope that this level of play is not a permanent fixture. On the other hand, I really don't know what can be done to help overcome this since by all indications, he has no help from his OC or HC on it. None.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:38 am
  • They are trying to make him a QB he isn't. It's beyond stupid. There is NO O Line helping him out. They refuse to the run to ball to help him out. He's looking around for SOMEONE TO GET OPEN all the time.
    How in the hell can he even be close to the QB we know he is when there is NOTHING comfortable around him.
    And the play calling........you gotta' be kidding me.
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:42 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:They are trying to make him a QB he isn't. It's beyond stupid. There is NO O Line helping him out. They refuse to the run to ball to help him out. He's looking around for SOMEONE TO GET OPEN all the time.
    How in the hell can he even be close to the QB we know he is when there is NOTHING comfortable around him.
    And the play calling........you gotta' be kidding me.


    Then what do you do with a QB like Russell?

    He's lost a step, can no longer get around the edge on read options or escape the pocket on the same consistent basis to make plays downfield.

    So what does Pete do? He hires an OC and line coach to try and take the pressure off Russell with a more dynamic run game.......................THAT HE THEN ABANDONS AFTER THE FIRST QUARTER.

    There's nothing wrong with Russell, it's his HC that's the problem. He's surrounded him with garbage talent, a garbage O-line and hamstrings the OC from the very first game creating the dumpster fire of an offense we've seen thus far.

    Pete needs to just shut the hell up and let Schottenheimer and Russell do their jobs.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:46 am
  • Exactly. Russ is in his prime, he has many good years left. They are wasting his talent by being stubborn.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Wilson is not Brady or Rodgers
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:52 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:They are trying to make him a QB he isn't. It's beyond stupid. There is NO O Line helping him out. They refuse to the run to ball to help him out. He's looking around for SOMEONE TO GET OPEN all the time.
    How in the hell can he even be close to the QB we know he is when there is NOTHING comfortable around him.
    And the play calling........you gotta' be kidding me.


    Then what do you do with a QB like Russell?

    He's lost a step, can no longer get around the edge on read options or escape the pocket on the same consistent basis to make plays downfield.

    So what does Pete do? He hires an OC and line coach to try and take the pressure off Russell with a more dynamic run game.......................THAT HE THEN ABANDONS AFTER THE FIRST QUARTER.

    There's nothing wrong with Russell, it's his HC that's the problem. He's surrounded him with garbage talent, a garbage O-line and hamstrings the OC from the very first game creating the dumpster fire of an offense we've seen thus far.

    Pete needs to just shut the hell up and let Schottenheimer and Russell do their jobs.


    Wilson has not "lost a step"! :177692:

    He is truely attempting to stay in the pocket longer and getting caught more doing that. Also defenses are doing a better job of boxing him in and taking away his escape routes.

    Run the ball, bring the read option and rollout (not into Mack unblocked!!) back and make sure he takes a couple of early runs and things will begin to open back up.

    Short passes that get the ball out and move the chains and far fewer down field shots that lead to 3 an outs.
    Last edited by Seymour on Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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