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  • Ok given the recent 2 yrs of roster and current elements I was thinking of players and different mentality's and reasons they do what they do.


    First there is for Yourself, this is two part, the yourself is proving your good enough to play in the NFL, shutting up pundits, it also crosses over as a team thing, the All We Got All we need. I would call that the entry level mindset. We had that in abundance with the LOB for the most part except Earl who was a first rounder, I still believe he had this as part of his early days because he had to prove himself to ho the staff, his team mates and the league.


    Then we have the Money, this is after you have done the above, you may not win a championship but if your a stat leader and game changer anywhere you start believing the headlines and think of yourself bigger then the game, you may have come into the league hoping for the big check especially if you were a high pick and then want to continue to make that money, it's about what you can get, not so much the team of the game, your heart may not be into the game and or your about protecting how long you can collect the pay check.


    Then you have for the love of the game, this is more and more rare, guys that come in knowing they are not getting or going to get the 7 or 8 figure deals but work their asses off, do the dirty work and show up, play with injuries that many of the Money guys will be Injured Reserved for. The love the game and the chance to prove themselves weekly and against their team mates, they value the being part of a team and something.



    There is a cross over between some of these elements but I think we have seen some of the aspects of players move from one to another over the last few years.

    My question to you is where do you think some players are.


    Lets start with Thomas, I think he came in a yourself guy, had success and was part of the LOB and got paid well for it, now I think with success he has moved to money with a bit of love of the game still there.

    Prosise, I really think he is about money, he has all the talent in the world but not the mental toughness to get thru the nics that happen, I am not includeing his shoulder injury, but even his history indicates he is not really the kind of guy that is playing for the team or love of the game, I think a RB has to have a bit of ability to play through the nics that can happen.

    Your thoughts on players current and or that have recently left such as Sherman, Bennett, Kam, Avril as well.
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  • Thomas and Sherman have absolutely played through injuries. Bennett played on a torn plantar fascia half the season and was still our most productive pass rusher. Kam and Avril most assuredly played hurt given the stingers that ended their careers were cumulative injuries meaning they had been playing through them before.

    To the rest of your post, I personally don't feel comfortable speculating about the character of a player unless it's to give them the benefit of the doubt or say something positive. Otherwise I'm only interested in discussing their on the field qualities and deficiencies. I haven't met any of these guys and certainly don't know them well enough to judge them as people. Obviously there are exceptions for convicted criminals, domestic abusers, and the like, but overall it doesn't feel right to me.
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  • Your three categories probably describe many players' motivation, probably at least two of the three simultaneously for most. I think there also exists a fourth motivator: success and glory (which perhaps could fit under the love of game category, but can stand apart from it as well). Being on a successful franchise, winning playoff games, and making it to the SB is undoubtedly a huge motivator for a lot of guys.

    I think RW and a lot of others are motivated by all four more or less equally.
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  • Thomas has gotten greedy and now he could give a rat’s rear about his team. For him it’s all about me, and getting him some big money, he changed after he broke his leg, and I don’t want him back to big time a younger impressionable locker room. He’s generational type talent without a generational talent’s brain.

    I don’t think Prosise has a backbone. He’s shy to face contact and invents one boo boo after another so he can get his cheque, too me, although exceptionally talented, he just needs to be moved on out.

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  • adeltaY wrote:Thomas and Sherman have absolutely played through injuries. Bennett played on a torn plantar fascia half the season and was still our most productive pass rusher. Kam and Avril most assuredly played hurt given the stingers that ended their careers were cumulative injuries meaning they had been playing through them before.

    To the rest of your post, I personally don't feel comfortable speculating about the character of a player unless it's to give them the benefit of the doubt or say something positive. Otherwise I'm only interested in discussing their on the field qualities and deficiencies. I haven't met any of these guys and certainly don't know them well enough to judge them as people. Obviously there are exceptions for convicted criminals, domestic abusers, and the like, but overall it doesn't feel right to me.


    Hmm do you read or just assume and speculate based on the title and a few words. Read and make a comment, it wasn't a right or wrong just a gauge for where players come from and progress through their careers and what their motivations are and how they change.

    The change is what I was identifying with.

    As far as only positive, don't try to sell us all a bag of goods we have seen plenty of your posts and they certainly are all not rosy and positivity.
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  • Ruminator wrote:Your three categories probably describe many players' motivation, probably at least two of the three simultaneously for most. I think there also exists a fourth motivator: success and glory (which perhaps could fit under the love of game category, but can stand apart from it as well). Being on a successful franchise, winning playoff games, and making it to the SB is undoubtedly a huge motivator for a lot of guys.

    I think RW and a lot of others are motivated by all four more or less equally.


    I feel that Success and Glory would be the combination of For Yourself(...the feel good part of it) and Love of the game (the actually liking to go to work every day) feel good about what you are there for and with friends/camaraderie.

    I loved my job. I had some success in it and got the feel good part of it. I had some team work ethic too in that we as a group accomplished our goal of what our task was. Love of the game.

    Back to the OP....Some have what is above as they are young and hungry. The older group has learned to be teachers and some are still learning. Those that are still learning are probably more on the line of for the love of the game. THey have not mastered their craft and always see a better way of making themselves masters of said craft. As they go on to be teachers and have someone to mentor into their mastery of their craft, they will be more for themselves. Those that have earned a lot and are not too concerned about money as much (fat chance of that happening) are in for themselves. Sherman was about the game and the high you get from that accomplishment...then he got hurt and now the high is still in his court with a different team. Graham was high on the sport but was also an accomplished TE (oh bullshit, he was a receiver, get over it) who could do a lot for a team. I would say for him it was love of the game and being able to fly to work during the week was a kicker for himself. Combination there of Money for airplane, Love of the game because he could fly to work, and for himself because he was an accomplished TE.

    All three points are motivators. And each separate one has its own motivation within itself. This is a great string and thoughts are gonna be interesting here. Thanks.
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  • chris98251 wrote:My question to you is where do you think some players are..


    This is exactly what every front office in the NFL tries to figure out each and every draft...............who loves the game, and who is good at football but might not have the passion needed to compete week in and week out.

    IMO it's a maturity learning curve for every player, regardless of their level of passion for the sport. Our Hawks are the text book example of it.

    Bunch of young guys come into the league, ball out, win a SB and think it's all perfect. Then they get smacked in the face with the reality that this league is a cold hard business, and they react accordingly by what we've seen out of guys like Bennett, Sherman, Kam and now Earl.

    So where are they? That's a moving target, so hard to answer.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Thomas and Sherman have absolutely played through injuries. Bennett played on a torn plantar fascia half the season and was still our most productive pass rusher. Kam and Avril most assuredly played hurt given the stingers that ended their careers were cumulative injuries meaning they had been playing through them before.

    To the rest of your post, I personally don't feel comfortable speculating about the character of a player unless it's to give them the benefit of the doubt or say something positive. Otherwise I'm only interested in discussing their on the field qualities and deficiencies. I haven't met any of these guys and certainly don't know them well enough to judge them as people. Obviously there are exceptions for convicted criminals, domestic abusers, and the like, but overall it doesn't feel right to me.


    Very well put.

    Great post Chris, and I think your topics parallel the game itself, from it's early beginnings, ownership, players and fans, to what it has become now.

    I love the players that play for the love of the game, and for the most part, they are easy to recognize. Dave Wyman was one of those players. He never knew how much he got paid. His agent would call him and tell him when it was time to sign. All Wyman cared about was the game. He probably would have played for free.

    I'm glad to see that the games success has translated in to players getting taken care of better, as early on, it was only about love of the game. There just wasn't enough money, or glory in it. And they didn't have the protective equipment either.

    As the game became financially successful, the participants changed also. There are some people who are naturally gifted and excel at football, but just aren't in to the game as much as most. They are just seeking that financial stability, and I don't think that they ever change. Once it's about money, there's nothing to change.

    As far as our players changing, it usually mirrors their success and the team's success which they then try to take credit for. Golden Tate said "I helped that city reach it's first ever Super Bowl." Where were you the first couple of years of your contract Golden? There's a "drop" on 710 "Get in the frickin huddle" which is Matt Hasselbeck yelling at Golden Tate for taking his time. I don't think anyone that signs and stays in Detroit (or Cleveland) is there for any other reason than money. Except for Joe Thomas who was a rare man of integrity, and loyalty to the people of Cleveland.

    Sorry Chris, I"m all over the place. But I think that's one advantage of keeping a team young, you move on from the guys that are making the change that you so aptly described, and bring in those that are young and hungry. Or like the bumper sticker says "Angry, Young & Poor."

    On a side note, I could never figure out how anyone that could afford to own a car would consider themselves poor. People who struggle to buy food and clothes are poor. Not people that can buy cars, gasoline, insurance, and $10 coffees.
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  • Prosise is just in it for the money? Some of you act like he gets hurt on purpose. He seems to like the game plenty, he just might not be built for it.
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  • Injuries can't be predicted. I don't doubt he loves the game and wants to be out there. Shoot, he's a hell of a weapon. But you can't make the club from the tub. Really sucks because he flat out could help this team, big time.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Thomas and Sherman have absolutely played through injuries. Bennett played on a torn plantar fascia half the season and was still our most productive pass rusher. Kam and Avril most assuredly played hurt given the stingers that ended their careers were cumulative injuries meaning they had been playing through them before.

    To the rest of your post, I personally don't feel comfortable speculating about the character of a player unless it's to give them the benefit of the doubt or say something positive. Otherwise I'm only interested in discussing their on the field qualities and deficiencies. I haven't met any of these guys and certainly don't know them well enough to judge them as people. Obviously there are exceptions for convicted criminals, domestic abusers, and the like, but overall it doesn't feel right to me.


    Hmm do you read or just assume and speculate based on the title and a few words. Read and make a comment, it wasn't a right or wrong just a gauge for where players come from and progress through their careers and what their motivations are and how they change.

    The change is what I was identifying with.

    As far as only positive, don't try to sell us all a bag of goods we have seen plenty of your posts and they certainly are all not rosy and positivity.


    I was only speaking in reference to character. The only player I can think of expressing a negative opinion on character wise was Blount for the Bitch Mode poster but I've gotten over that. I might've said something about Edelman because I don't like his face. Nothing serious and more of a "Sports hate" thing though I'm making a conscious effort to cut that out. Some here seem to really dislike players because they think the players have poor character based on limited info. I'm not about that.

    I will readily admit to making negative posts about football stuff. I place discussions of character and football in two separate categories.

    To answer your thread, that's something only a player can know in his heart and probably changes over time. Coaches do their best to find out and we fans can only guess.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Thomas and Sherman have absolutely played through injuries. Bennett played on a torn plantar fascia half the season and was still our most productive pass rusher. Kam and Avril most assuredly played hurt given the stingers that ended their careers were cumulative injuries meaning they had been playing through them before.

    To the rest of your post, I personally don't feel comfortable speculating about the character of a player unless it's to give them the benefit of the doubt or say something positive. Otherwise I'm only interested in discussing their on the field qualities and deficiencies. I haven't met any of these guys and certainly don't know them well enough to judge them as people. Obviously there are exceptions for convicted criminals, domestic abusers, and the like, but overall it doesn't feel right to me.


    Hmm do you read or just assume and speculate based on the title and a few words. Read and make a comment, it wasn't a right or wrong just a gauge for where players come from and progress through their careers and what their motivations are and how they change.

    The change is what I was identifying with.

    As far as only positive, don't try to sell us all a bag of goods we have seen plenty of your posts and they certainly are all not rosy and positivity.


    I was only speaking in reference to character. The only player I can think of expressing a negative opinion on character wise was Blount for the Bitch Mode poster but I've gotten over that. I might've said something about Edelman because I don't like his face. Nothing serious and more of a "Sports hate" thing though I'm making a conscious effort to cut that out. Some here seem to really dislike players because they think the players have poor character based on limited info. I'm not about that.

    I will readily admit to making negative posts about football stuff. I place discussions of character and football in two separate categories.

    To answer your thread, that's something only a player can know in his heart and probably changes over time. Coaches do their best to find out and we fans can only guess.


    Nah, when you get a player as a rookie you can see the changes in them, Take Earl and Doug, their trajectory has been pretty close in the time line but they are very different in how they approach the game, the team and demeanor now. Also as a fan of the game we have seen literally thousands of players come thru the Seahawks alone and you can see how different they become based on success of themselves, success of the team, and length of their careers which gives you a decent baseline for forming an opinion on where they are motivated at.

    I don't think I ever heard Kennedy, Largent Hass or any other Seahawk for that matter said he needs to put food on the table for his family so make me the highest paid player at my position.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    I don't think I ever heard Kennedy, Largent Hass or any other Seahawk for that matter said he needs to put food on the table for his family so make me the highest paid player at my position.


    Largent absolutely said it, it's why he crossed the picket line in 1987 and played with the scabs during the player's strike.

    Now it was a different time, he made around $1,000,000, and his son Kramer had a mountain of hospital bills due to his spina bifida diagnosis.

    So it's not like Earl who's already made over 30M and shouldn't be saying stupid things about putting food on the table for his family.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    I don't think I ever heard Kennedy, Largent Hass or any other Seahawk for that matter said he needs to put food on the table for his family so make me the highest paid player at my position.


    Largent absolutely said it, it's why he crossed the picket line in 1987 and played with the scabs during the player's strike.

    Now it was a different time, he made around $1,000,000, and his son Kramer had a mountain of hospital bills due to his spina bifida diagnosis.

    So it's not like Earl who's already made over 30M and shouldn't be saying stupid things about putting food on the table for his family.



    Yeah I remember, and the Team supported him 100 percent due to what you stated as well. That was a lot different situation. It wasn't food on the table, it was saving his sons life. Slight difference in priority's.
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  • As for the "yourself" part of the equation the new rookie salary structure that was initiated a few years ago has really changed the whole "prove-it" thing.

    As for the "money" once you get past the prove-it part you're playing to get that first contract that pays.

    Once you get past the first two, the love of the game is constantly filtered through the fact that it is a business and your management, peers, and family obligations never let you forget that.
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  • At the NFL level the game is always about money first and foremost. This is what matters most for every player, no matter which way you slice things. That is why I used to laugh when people said "....but maybe he will take a hometown discount". Let me tell you fellas, there is no such thing. Money always comes first, everything come second. One could say that every NFL player is an individual business unto themselves.

    The ego is the second big part in this equation. For most of these guys, going from unknowns to the messiah is intoxicating. The preservation of the self, and self image ties directly ties into the whole money thing. Some players spend quite a bit of time, and money promoting a carefully crafted image. They aren't doing that to be "great" at the game. They are doing this for themselves. It all ties into money, and legacy factor.

    Love of the game always comes last on the list. Even for someone like Russell Wilson. The NFL is a business first and foremost, and each one of these guys have to craft an image. Everyone started playing football for the love of the game, but once you enter the NFL things start changing. All of the sudden as a player you go from being a nobody to a celebrity. The love of the recognition, the fame, the money often times trumps all else.

    There are just so many external factors. It is like life, you may have studied something in college for genuine love. When you get into that career field the excess noise, regulation, drama and chaos makes the rose colored glasses fade to black.

    As far as guys like KAM, Sherm, and Thomas go, they each are the same story.

    I think guys such as Baldwin, Kam and Sherman in particular love(D) the game more than most. They always left nothing on the field. Sherman was a critic of the coaching staff but he was also his own biggest critic when he didn't play well. He took the game very seriously, and he was committed to being the best cornerback in the league. Kam also regularly sacrificed his body and made big plays at his own expense, not because he had to, because he wanted to. These guys have genuine love for the game, they play for the money first and foremost, but they take great pride, and joy in being in the NFL, and they care about success and the direction of a team. That is why that fated Superbowl was such a big blow to Sherman in particular.

    Thomas is the other side of the equation. I don't think he has a love for the game anymore. He contemplated retirement, and he refuses to play until he gets a bigger contract. He still plays hard, but he strikes me as a guy that is more or less just going through the motions. Just looking for that last paycheck until he can ride off into the sunset. This game is now pure business for the guy. He just doesn't look like he wants to be in that locker room anymore.
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