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Defining the Legacy

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Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:52 am
  • As we begin a new chapter of Seahawk football today some thoughts of where we have been and where we are heading.

    I think it became pretty obvious to most people by mid-2012 that Pete and JS had put together a really good team. A defense made up of scorned passed-over OVER-achievers and an undersized rookie QB phenom looked ready to shake up the NFL. This, coming after this admin had made wholesale player changes that rattled a fan base fearful that they didn't know what they were doing and appeared to be just the proverbial "let's see if it will stick to the wall." We all know how that turned out and as these remarkable Seahawk's completed a completely unanticipated rout of the HOF-led Denver Broncos in SB 48, Pete Carroll and John Schneider were proclaimed NFL GENIUSES!

    Then, ONE PLAY, {{{{{{SHUDDER}}}}}, universally proclaimed THE WORST PLAY IN SUPER BOWL HISTORY changed all of that.

    Time passes and after three remarkably mediocre seasons (mediocre by dynasty standards at least) the coaches, some of whom were deemed responsible for said play, were ALL let go.

    All that remains is the dynamic duo credited with putting together that remarkable team. it's unlikely that this current edition will repeat the successes of their predecessors but an opportunity exists to prove that the past success wasn't just an anomaly built on sheer luck.

    How this team develops over the next couple of years will go a long way to determine the legacy of this coach and front office, as well as the entire Seahawk's organization that still seems to dwell in the dark shadows of THE PLAY.

    Thoughts?
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:00 am
  • Oh dear lord lets move on already and enjoy the game tonight.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:01 am
  • I don't know how your going to overcome your big disappointment. :229031_shrug: Many of us and certainly the current team has moved on.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:02 am
  • What could have and should have been. People threw the word dynasty around and we ended up being a one hit wonder. Coaches should have been let go immediately after SB 49, but here we are. Shame.
    Last edited by pittpnthrs on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:04 am
  • It's like a pity party that never ends.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:05 am
  • I didn't mean to make the emphasis of that one play as I did whether or not the selection of those players was just sheer luck. That really is my question, but bury the head as they say, some people just refuse to acknowledge just what a common perception of the Seahawk's exists around the league.

    So, the real question is? Are Pete and JS really that good or were they just lucky?
    Last edited by DomeHawk on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:05 am
  • pittpnthrs wrote:What could have and should have been. People threw the word dynasty around and we ended up being a one hit wonder. Coaches should have been let go immediately after SB 49, but here we are.

    Least we hit one..
    The Falcons and Cowboys cannot say that.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:13 am
  • pittpnthrs wrote:What could have and should have been. People threw the word dynasty around and we ended up being a one hit wonder. Coaches should have been let go immediately after SB 49, but here we are. Shame.


    I don't think we ever reached dynasty status but the fact that we went to consecutive SB's, and really should have won two in a row, demonstrates that we weren't just one-hit wonders.

    Who else has done that recently?
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 am
  • DomeHawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:What could have and should have been. People threw the word dynasty around and we ended up being a one hit wonder. Coaches should have been let go immediately after SB 49, but here we are. Shame.


    I don't think we ever reached dynasty status but the fact that we went to consecutive SB's, and really should have won two in a row, demonstrates that we weren't just one-hit wonders.

    Who else has done that recently?


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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:23 am
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:What could have and should have been. People threw the word dynasty around and we ended up being a one hit wonder. Coaches should have been let go immediately after SB 49, but here we are.

    Least we hit one..
    The Falcons and Cowboys cannot say that.


    Cowboys? Might want to check your examples again.

    72' 78' 93' 94' 96'

    Your right, thats not a one hit wonder, thats a Greatest Hits.
    Last edited by pittpnthrs on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:27 am
  • DomeHawk wrote:So, the real question is? Are Pete and JS really that good or were they just lucky?


    I think Pete and John were that good when Pete was familiar with the college talent coming out. Once he was away from the college game, the drafting started to suck. I do feel they got lucky with Wilson though. He turned out better than they could have ever imagined.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 am
  • Still one of the greatest defenses ever.

    Arguably the greatest secondary ever.

    That is a Legacy.

    I remain convinced that if this team never let go of Tate and never did the Harvin thing, we would have had a Dynasty.

    But regardless, putting together the defense this team did, combined with how dominant it was at its peak - there was a Legacy. Whatever you think of Carroll and how he is doing things now, he created the perfect storm of incredible football for that 2 year period.

    Let's not be so focused on what we lost, and the bad decisions that lost what could have been - that we forget to be thankful for what we had. Those were some of the most amazing years a football fan could ask for.

    We literally watched a team studded with HOF and HOF quality players every week. A team that was so good it was better than any opponent it faced throughout the year. Most fans never get that.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:48 am
  • DomeHawk wrote:I didn't mean to make the emphasis of that one play as I did whether or not the selection of those players was just sheer luck. That really is my question, but bury the head as they say, some people just refuse to acknowledge just what a common perception of the Seahawk's exists around the league.

    So, the real question is? Are Pete and JS really that good or were they just lucky?


    I think the response is that it has been discussed in numerous threads.

    I think what we are seeing was the end of a cycle and the start of a new one. There are many theories on when the cycle truly ended (and when maybe it should have been ended). But it's clear a new one has started.

    Judging the GM and coach should be done in how they do with the new cycle.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:52 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Let's not be so focused on what we lost, and the bad decisions that lost what could have been - that we forget to be thankful for what we had. Those were some of the most amazing years a football fan could ask for.

    We literally watched a team studded with HOF and HOF quality players every week. A team that was so good it was better than any opponent it faced throughout the year. Most fans never get that.


    We have no choice now but to look back and reflect back on the great seasons and players we had, because thats gone now. Yes, we had a team filled with HOF caliber players that was literally better than everybody else and the fact that we could only muster one title out of that group is,,,,,,,,well unfortunate to say the least.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:12 pm
  • If Pete can win another ring I'd say that proves he is a HoF coach and an all time great.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:28 pm
  • DomeHawk wrote:I didn't mean to make the emphasis of that one play as I did whether or not the selection of those players was just sheer luck. That really is my question, but bury the head as they say, some people just refuse to acknowledge just what a common perception of the Seahawk's exists around the league.

    So, the real question is? Are Pete and JS really that good or were they just lucky?

    It's not so much emphasis on any particular aspect of your post, just that the entirely has pretty much been discussed ad nauseum all off-season.

    The timing of your post corresponds to the first pre-season game, which should be marking the end of the past and the beginning of the future, at least in the near term.

    So you may get a bit of stick for your post, but it's just because you missed the hundred-or-so previous threads on the topic, and your timing couldn't be much worse. I'm sure your opinion itself is quite valid and shared by many.

    For the record, my money is on PC and JS being good, not lucky, and the common perception of the Seahawks around the league is as it always has been - a bunch of claptrap parroted from pundit to pundit because none of them actually give a crap about what happens in South Alaska.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:39 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    DomeHawk wrote:I didn't mean to make the emphasis of that one play as I did whether or not the selection of those players was just sheer luck. That really is my question, but bury the head as they say, some people just refuse to acknowledge just what a common perception of the Seahawk's exists around the league.

    So, the real question is? Are Pete and JS really that good or were they just lucky?

    It's not so much emphasis on any particular aspect of your post, just that the entirely has pretty much been discussed ad nauseum all off-season.

    The timing of your post corresponds to the first pre-season game, which should be marking the end of the past and the beginning of the future, at least in the near term.

    So you may get a bit of stick for your post, but it's just because you missed the hundred-or-so previous threads on the topic, and your timing couldn't be much worse. I'm sure your opinion itself is quite valid and shared by many.

    For the record, my money is on PC and JS being good, not lucky, and the common perception of the Seahawks around the league is as it always has been - a bunch of claptrap parroted from pundit to pundit because none of them actually give a crap about what happens in South Alaska.


    I totally respect what you are saying but I disagree about the timing. This IS the first day of a new era of Seahawk football. The first page in the chapter that will define the PC/JS legacy.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:40 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Let's not be so focused on what we lost, and the bad decisions that lost what could have been - that we forget to be thankful for what we had. Those were some of the most amazing years a football fan could ask for.

    We literally watched a team studded with HOF and HOF quality players every week. A team that was so good it was better than any opponent it faced throughout the year. Most fans never get that.


    We have no choice now but to look back and reflect back on the great seasons and players we had, because thats gone now. Yes, we had a team filled with HOF caliber players that was literally better than everybody else and the fact that we could only muster one title out of that group is,,,,,,,,well unfortunate to say the least.



    You have a choice to look forward too.

    that's the fun thing about sports. You can pick and choose how you want to look at them.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:46 pm
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:52 pm
  • DomeHawk wrote:I totally respect what you are saying but I disagree about the timing. This IS the first day of a new era of Seahawk football. The first page in the chapter that will define the PC/JS legacy.


    So this chapter will define the PC/JS legacy? Not the one where they brought us the first Championship in the history of this franchise?
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:49 am
  • Chapow wrote:
    DomeHawk wrote:I totally respect what you are saying but I disagree about the timing. This IS the first day of a new era of Seahawk football. The first page in the chapter that will define the PC/JS legacy.


    So this chapter will define the PC/JS legacy? Not the one where they brought us the first Championship in the history of this franchise?


    Yeah.. i think so.

    If they can this team back to an elite level after losing a generation of hall of famers that were developed on their watch, it speaks volumes of their approach and ability.

    if not, there will always be questions about whether they fell into it.

    Noone will take away their championship though.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:06 am
  • DomeHawk wrote:I didn't mean to make the emphasis of that one play as I did whether or not the selection of those players was just sheer luck. That really is my question, but bury the head as they say, some people just refuse to acknowledge just what a common perception of the Seahawk's exists around the league.

    So, the real question is? Are Pete and JS really that good or were they just lucky?


    I think the answer is somewhere between. They are both good at what they do, and they got lucky both. IMO they are good enough to do that again, but it may take longer than the 1st time.

    Now that Cable is not blowing 25% of our draft capitol.....he have a shot again. :pukeface:
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:What could have and should have been. People threw the word dynasty around and we ended up being a one hit wonder. Coaches should have been let go immediately after SB 49, but here we are.

    Least we hit one..
    The Falcons and Cowboys cannot say that.


    Cowboys? Might want to check your examples again.

    72' 78' 93' 94' 96'

    Your right, thats not a one hit wonder, thats a Greatest Hits.



    They haven’t even sniffed a Super Bowl this century though. For all the hype and bravado you hear from that team and fanbase all of the time that has to suck. I hear about all of the old dusty and rusty Lombardi’s from the cowboys fans I know. For most of them they had hair back then, and it was 3 ex-wives ago.

    Shoot even the crappy 9’ers have at least played in one with a year started with a 2.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!

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Re: Defining the Legacy
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:06 pm
  • Legacy is subjective based on individual point of view. Going back to back Superbowls can be viewed as a defining a legacy. Only two teams have gone to back to back Superbowls in the past decade. Those are Seahawks and Patriots. Both of them lost the 2nd of the back to back.

    Having the best scoring defense in the league for 3-4 for straight years, can be viewed as defining a legacy too. It's really how one perceives it.
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Re: Defining the Legacy
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:08 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:Legacy is subjective based on individual point of view. Going back to back Superbowls can be viewed as a defining a legacy. Only two teams have gone to back to back Superbowls in the past decade. Those are Seahawks and Patriots. Both of them lost the 2nd of the back to back.

    Having the best scoring defense in the league for 3-4 for straight years, can be viewed as defining a legacy too. It's really how one perceives it.


    There's no question that the Seahawks have had a good run, perhaps even great run. AND, I'm not suggesting that one play takes all that away BUT it wasn't just that one play, things really changed after that. I'm not naive enough to believe that it wasn't a combination of factors. That isn't the real question I am posing even though I can see how it can be seen that I might have been suggesting otherwise.

    It remains (for me at least), that for PC/JS to really leave w/a lasting legacy, this current edition will have to at least be competitive for division titles. Perhaps not this year but in the hunt for a playoff spot at minimum.
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