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Total Access: Have The Seahawks Lost Their Way?

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  • So once in a blue moon TA will dedicate a segment to the Seahawks that lasts beyond 15 seconds. Today they discussed (based off the Sherman dust kick up, i.e. it's still offseason) if the Seahawks have lost their way. Of course the overall sentiment was yes they have. The usual narrative abounds ("Look at all the players let go in the offseason, the LOB is no more, Russell has to do it all on his own, et al) so nothing shocking there.

    I guess what I took from the segment is the overall underestimation of Pete's ability to get young players to buy in, and not just young players but players with chips on their shoulders. After all, that was always the very foundational ingredient that created the cake that was ultimately our first Championship team in franchise history.

    Unless I have been living under a rock for the past couple of years, I am pretty sure Pete Carroll is still the youngest mid 60's human being the world has ever known, and he's still the same person that got the Seahawks to the promised land and finished the job, nearly doing it back-to-back. Now to the segment's overall point, you don't just grow Kam Chancellors and Richard Shermans on trees. These are generational players that changed the game.

    We were feared. We were the bullies nobody wanted to face. Now we are not.

    Well, why can't we be that again? Hell yes it will take time, and it will have it's own new face on it, but why can't we get back to that brand of football?

    I say we can, and we will.
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  • This is a kick them when they are down thing using Sherms comments as a catalyst. Let them talk, let them eat some raw uncooked crow.

    It simply falls in line with everyone elses bullshit. More to come so get ready as we get closer to training camp.
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  • NFL Total Access is a reaction to SI's MMQB article. Sherm's sponsoring a CB Camp at Stanford University so the story wasn't entirely focused on The Hawks demise.

    I suggest read the story and make your own conclusion.

    That said, Sherm stated PC's rah, rah only works with college or first year, second or third year players.

    Well, guess what, PC jettisoned older players. The team is now depending on a lot of players that Sherm said will listen to him.

    The bullies on the block meant, ground and pound offense, stopping the run and bring in the NASCAR DLine to apply pressure the QB. I think this team has players to do all the above. Only thing that's missing tho is BamBam

    Bottom line: Its way too early for anyone to say we're done, or a playoff team.
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  • truehawksfan wrote:NFL Total Access is a reaction to SI's MMQB article. Sherm's sponsoring a CB Camp at Stanford University so the story wasn't entirely focused on The Hawks demise.

    I suggest read the story and make your own conclusion.

    That said, Sherm stated PC's rah, rah only works with college or first year, second or third year players.



    The problem with that theory, that people have been parroting for 8 years now, is I've heard many ex long term players say that about all coaches.

    ALL coaches say the same things over and over again. If you are a NFL veteran, who's spent any amount of time with the same coaches, you've heard their shtick over and over. It's not just PC. But the real professionals, the real veterans, reinforce it to the rookies, they still buy in. (even though they've heard the same speech before) The last time I heard an old player talk about this was Dave Wyman about Coach Knox.
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  • See I feel like we already had lost our way 2-3 years ago by keeping our overpriced defensive stars and getting away from pounding the rock, resulted in getting soft on defense an offense.

    So HAVE we lost our way? No. DID we lose our way and are now getting back to building a young nasty defense again to pair with a physical run game using Russell's amazing play action? Yes.
    Last edited by Sgt. Largent on Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Aros wrote:
    I guess what I took from the segment is the overall underestimation of Pete's ability to get young players to buy in, and not just young players but players with chips on their shoulders. After all, that was always the very foundational ingredient that created the cake that was ultimately our first Championship team in franchise history.



    I say we can, and we will.


    Snip Snip. I took what I wanted to discuss and clipped it here.

    Aros, this is what I liked about your post the most. What happened is they all got paid and the chip on their shoulder became margerine, yanno the kind..butter knife type. MnMs...melt on your shoulder and not in your hands. Not only did they not buy in any more, their backups took the same stance. Hungry????naw I got the MnMs on my shoulder to eat. Wanna go work out...naw, that guy over there dont need to, so why should I? Entitlement theory....I made a team now I am in like flynn.....


    I do think they can.....I do think they will....but it will take one full year of jelling for them to get there. Need the distractions off the table tho so the meat can be cooked medium rare. Last person to the table dont get none.
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  • If losing their way looks like five straight years of league's undisputed best defense and going to the playoffs, there are dozens of NFL teams that would love to lose their way.
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  • Lost their way is basically really nothing more than changing, and is Shermans way of feeling important. The way we played and won before is changing some, so you can win and play in many ways. only a fool thinks there is only one way to win and play.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:Lost their way is basically really nothing more than changing, and is Shermans way of feeling important. The way we played and won before is changing some, so you can win and play in many ways. only a fool thinks there is only one way to win and play.


    They lost their way with holding people accountable and always compete was the mandate, they got older and more comfortable and Coaches, Players and the Front Office looked at the team as a success and arrived more then getting better each and every week with a move for a player or pushing them or frankly fixing issues aggressively.

    That's how we got to the Super Bowl, after we got in the comfort zone and I am talking the first one not the NE one.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:Lost their way is basically really nothing more than changing, and is Shermans way of feeling important. The way we played and won before is changing some, so you can win and play in many ways. only a fool thinks there is only one way to win and play.


    They lost their way with holding people accountable and always compete was the mandate, they got older and more comfortable and Coaches, Players and the Front Office looked at the team as a success and arrived more then getting better each and every week with a move for a player or pushing them or frankly fixing issues aggressively.

    That's how we got to the Super Bowl, after we got in the comfort zone and I am talking the first one not the NE one.




    Bingo. Give that man a cracker. :irishdrinkers: :2thumbs:
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  • chris98251 wrote:This is a kick them when they are down thing using Sherms comments as a catalyst. Let them talk, let them eat some raw uncooked crow.

    It simply falls in line with everyone elses bullshit. More to come so get ready as we get closer to training camp.


    Great Post!

    If Seattle does turn out to, you know, actually be better these same talking heads who are kicking the team when it appears to be down those same fools will say. "Wow, that Seattle team is much better than we thought, but still sucks and couldn't possibly do anything in the playoffs".

    In case everyone has forgotten these self same talking heads told us confidently that there no way in heck Seattle would hang with Denver's offensive juggernaut in XLVIII prior to the game, totally discounting the Seahawks to the great Broncos. We all recall a happier different result wherein our team score 43 points against that juggernaut.

    There are reasons why they play the games.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • Colin Cowherd thinks Pete may be fired if they struggle again this season.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:Lost their way is basically really nothing more than changing, and is Shermans way of feeling important. The way we played and won before is changing some, so you can win and play in many ways. only a fool thinks there is only one way to win and play.


    They lost their way with holding people accountable and always compete was the mandate, they got older and more comfortable and Coaches, Players and the Front Office looked at the team as a success and arrived more then getting better each and every week with a move for a player or pushing them or frankly fixing issues aggressively.

    That's how we got to the Super Bowl, after we got in the comfort zone and I am talking the first one not the NE one.


    Perhaps you are right, I just get the feeling for Sherman this is more about how the defense was not getting all the credit and was not the center of the team. Maybe it's both who knows. However, if you are right then Sherman has no room to talk as he was part of the problem and was not part fo the solution at all.
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  • Hawker8989 wrote:Colin Cowherd thinks Pete may be fired if they struggle again this season.


    Colin actually likes the Seahawks and I feel that he is frustrated with the team, as we are, however he may be right.

    That said, I could see us going 7-9 this year but we really liked what we saw. For instance, the team starts doing something great that we haven't seen for the past few years. Pass Rush up the middle killing the pocket or a good offensive line production this year. Maybee, see 2 or 3 young players really take a big jump and become pro bowlers or close to it.

    Then if nothing happens, Pete is probably gone.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:See I feel like we already had lost our way 2-3 years ago by keeping our overpriced defensive stars and getting away from pounding the rock, resulted in getting soft on defense an offense.

    So HAVE we lost our way? No. DID we lose our way and are now getting back to building a young nasty defense again to pair with a physical run game using Russell's amazing play action? Yes.



    good post. I feel the same way. Hawks have learned lessons and are back on track.
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  • lukerguy wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:See I feel like we already had lost our way 2-3 years ago by keeping our overpriced defensive stars and getting away from pounding the rock, resulted in getting soft on defense an offense.

    So HAVE we lost our way? No. DID we lose our way and are now getting back to building a young nasty defense again to pair with a physical run game using Russell's amazing play action? Yes.



    good post. I feel the same way. Hawks have learned lessons and are back on track.


    I think that's more hindsight bias. If we let any of Sherm, Kam, or Earl go and played as well as they did for us, and whoever we got to replace them was average, we'd be dumbfounded as to why the FO let them go. I agree with the process of paying cream of the crop (all-pro level) players top dollar more than I do with letting them go and banking on your ability to develop new all-pros at three DB positions to save money.
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  • But there is a cap! We spent all of our cash propping up the defensive stars only to have them cause discourse because the gutted offense couldn’t keep up. Further more we spent so much on our defensive stars that we had to also part ways with some of the supporting cast depth that had helped the defense become elite to begin with. We tore down the offense to build the defense then pursued a formula that caused the foundation of that defense to erode. If the defensive stars play for a little less instead of demanding tip top pay we might have kept it rolling a little while longer but Pete’s plan was never long term sustainable.
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  • I can't for football to start. I am sick of the speculation and negativity from the talking heads. One thing I can guarantee you is, the players left are hearing every negative word about them. And you know master psychologist Pete is using it to the Hawks advantage. I bet the chip on these guys is going to be bigger than ever.
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  • I'm In! I think this team will outperform the expectations, and we've had some addition by subtraction. Obviously not in the case of Cliff and Kam, but in numerous other cases. I'm thinking we'll look a lot like the 2012 Seahawks, but with a veteran QB. Maybe 'Quem will be our new Kam-Bam factor?

    Pete Carroll, the late Dick Clark, two peas on a pod. When Pete is the youngest octagenarian NFL coach, he will have outdone Dick. Speaking of Dick, Dick Vermeil didn't even make it to age 70 as an NFL coach. So if Pete is still coaching at 70 and has the Hawks in the playoffs, all he needs to do to top Vermeil is to learn to cry during press conferences.

    To me, the biggest indicator of the Seahawks losing their way was when Bevell threw Ricardo Lockette under the bus after the 2014, and was not either fired or disciplined. (i.e., public apology and accepting personal responsibility for the failed play) When that happened, it was SO un-Seahawks-like, it was like it said to players tha all Pete's talk was BS when push came to shove. That has now been (finally) fixed.

    There will be no more ridiculous contracts for washed-up players, there will be no more ridiculous free agent deals for expensive players that don't fit (Harvin, Graham), and we can only hope there will be better drafting.

    More accurate would be to say, yes, the Seahawks did lose their way, but now, older and wiser, have massively course corrected back to "The Seahawks Way".
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  • The Seahawks have lost there way since SB 49. It was an unfortunate loss and guys like Sherman weren't the same after. They (sherman) sort of lost his drive and was not the same as they were leading up to it. Loosing happens and its unfortunate.

    I love our team going into the seaon. Lots of unknowns, but plenty opportunities for guys to step up. the Legion of Boom might not be any more, but we got a set of Bash Brothers in the Griffens along with Frank Clark who will bring it and set the tone for the D. Don't forget about Bobby Wagner either.

    I think the NFL will be a little shocked to see the offence that Seattle brings this year. Russ is ready to prove he is truly elite, although he has already been doing so since entering the NFL. Lockett will shine just like Richardson after finally being healthy. Brandon Marshall is a beast and had a tough go in NY, plagued with injuries. When he is healthy he is unstoppable.

    The Seahawks Run Game will return, lead by blocking TE's and an improved OL. Penny and Carson will be a dynamic duo and complemented by Davis.

    The Seahawks have lost there way the past few years, but they will carve out a new identity focused on a high intensity offence mixing up a strong run game with a blitz of an aerial attack. They will take there D and re-define it.

    Like I always say, the NFL is a revolving door and as much as the Legion of Boom was the Seattle Seahawks, the Seahawks in no way are the Legion of Boom. I loved Sherman, Chancellor, Thomas, Maxwell, Shead, etc ... but we had our run with those guys and they gave us something to cheer for. Now there time is done and its time for a new team to take form.

    Lets go Seahawks!!!

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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:If losing their way looks like five straight years of league's undisputed best defense and going to the playoffs, there are dozens of NFL teams that would love to lose their way.


    They are basing it off of 2017 forward. We didn't have the best defense in 2017, and we didn't make the playoffs. They are calling this the unraveling point, especially coupled with all the cornerstone defensive player losses.

    If we make the playoffs this season, they look foolish. If we struggle again, it adds fuel. It is talking head conjecture, and what we did 2012-2016 matters not to them.
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  • olyfan63 wrote:I'm In! I think this team will outperform the expectations, and we've had some addition by subtraction. Obviously not in the case of Cliff and Kam, but in numerous other cases. I'm thinking we'll look a lot like the 2012 Seahawks, but with a veteran QB. Maybe 'Quem will be our new Kam-Bam factor?

    Pete Carroll, the late Dick Clark, two peas on a pod. When Pete is the youngest octagenarian NFL coach, he will have outdone Dick. Speaking of Dick, Dick Vermeil didn't even make it to age 70 as an NFL coach. So if Pete is still coaching at 70 and has the Hawks in the playoffs, all he needs to do to top Vermeil is to learn to cry during press conferences.

    To me, the biggest indicator of the Seahawks losing their way was when Bevell threw Ricardo Lockette under the bus after the 2014, and was not either fired or disciplined. (i.e., public apology and accepting personal responsibility for the failed play) When that happened, it was SO un-Seahawks-like, it was like it said to players tha all Pete's talk was BS when push came to shove. That has now been (finally) fixed.

    There will be no more ridiculous contracts for washed-up players, there will be no more ridiculous free agent deals for expensive players that don't fit (Harvin, Graham), and we can only hope there will be better drafting.

    More accurate would be to say, yes, the Seahawks did lose their way, but now, older and wiser, have massively course corrected back to "The Seahawks Way".



    Hmm okay, you have changed my mind they have lost their way. That said Sherman was part of the problem and helped the way get lost with his, antics, calling coaches out, etc etc. Alos what Bevel did to Lockette should have cost his job right there. Huge mistake in my opinion.
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  • I would rather like to think that they are refining their way.

    I've said it for years, that I disagreed with Schneider's concept of grading drafts relative to your team. I felt and wrote that it was a recipe for passing on great talent for midlevel/replacement level upgrades at soft positions.

    That resulted in having generically bad players not worth resigning over the course of multiple successive drafts and forcing us to resign great, if aging talent.

    Simply put, I don't think they lost their way. So much as they made a mistake (repeatedly unfortunately). Their way early on was to fail quickly. And I think in that sense they are sticking with their way. By getting rid of guys whose time here had run it's course.

    Seattle has a clean slate now. Although they don't have the draft capital available to them that they did in 2010/11/12. But this is the kind of environment that this team thrived in early on. I truly hope they abandon the grade against the team philosophy and just presume they won't resign any of their draft picks when it comes to putting together their boards.

    Additionally, I would hope they stop trading their first round picks for other teams' castoff stars. That has had the predictable short term boost, but long term ruin of our draft process.

    If Seattle had a way, it was hallmarked in my opinion by a constant evaluation and evolution of their process. Every year something different. I'd like to think that Seattle has learned from their mistakes as they have largely in the past. While I don't expect the 'grading against the team' concept to go away because that is central to their philosophy. I do believe that Seattle is going to achieve the same effect by simply removing the competition scale at the top by not necessarily resigning players. Not creating holes on the roster per se. But creating openings for opportunity for young talent in the draft and also preventing the 'kumbaya' effect on aged vets that no longer respect the message.
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  • twisted_steel2 wrote:
    truehawksfan wrote:NFL Total Access is a reaction to SI's MMQB article. Sherm's sponsoring a CB Camp at Stanford University so the story wasn't entirely focused on The Hawks demise.

    I suggest read the story and make your own conclusion.

    That said, Sherm stated PC's rah, rah only works with college or first year, second or third year players.



    The problem with that theory, that people have been parroting for 8 years now, is I've heard many ex long term players say that about all coaches.

    ALL coaches say the same things over and over again. If you are a NFL veteran, who's spent any amount of time with the same coaches, you've heard their shtick over and over. It's not just PC. But the real professionals, the real veterans, reinforce it to the rookies, they still buy in. (even though they've heard the same speech before) The last time I heard an old player talk about this was Dave Wyman about Coach Knox.



    Absolutely agree. Have you seen any of the Hard Knocks or All or Nothing shows? Every coach says the same thing year in and year out. It's what a good leader does, they have a message that they hang their hat on and they reinforce it to their players. If a player chooses to ignore it or get tired of it, that's on them. This notion that PC's message is stale is BS in my opinion. It's the prima donna players that chose to let it get stale, which is why those players aren't here anymore. Do you think Bobby, KJ, and Russell are ignoring the message? I think they're still all in, and they are the new leaders on this team. We will see some young guys emerge as leaders as well, watch for Shaq to step up this year. We aren't done yet, we're just getting (re)started!
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  • Hawker8989 wrote:Colin Cowherd thinks Pete may be fired if they struggle again this season.


    If the same trends continue, despite the roster turnover and coaching changes, yes he will be fired.

    Pete is old and only will have 1 yr left on his deal. Also too the CBA is getting ready to expire so the Hawks will want to have their new guy in place before then, preferably with a season under his belt if a lockout does occur. Things are lining up for Pete to get fired.

    Pete of course can easily avoid this with another winning season, and being rewarded a 2-3 yr contract extension.
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  • The past two seasons they lost their way....they are finally back on track. Final step is to trade Earl.
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  • I read the article a couple of times and I see where Sherm's going with this. His definition of losing our way:
    -Type of players
    -Reactive/Not proactive in player acquisition
    -Always compete

    lukerguy's avatar is a perfect example of what our WRs are required to do and do well: Block. When was the last time you saw a WR deliver a crushing block like Tate did to that Cowboy LB? Instead, Kearse and Tate were replaced with Harvin and PRich. Fast guys who avoided blocks like Jimmy. Lockett does a great Tate imitation on returns, but blocking?

    And speaking about Jimmy, we did a terrible job replacing Zach Miler. Vannett and now Dissly. Last year was awful. If we want to run the ball, put Vannett out there. Sure Jimmy is getting paid, but there's no way, I mean no way he's a better blocker then Vannett. is that always compete?

    And speaking about always compete, Cary Williams was inserted as a starter despite having zero experience on the kick step. Jeremy Lane and Deshawn Shead was groomed to play this style and they did a much better job, but, Williams was starting and getting burned in the terrible learn/train on the field. How did that go?

    Reactive/Fly by the seat of you pants player acquisition. When we traded Unger, did we have someone on the roster to replace him? Nope. We scrambled by signing a street free agent- Patrick Lewis- and a retread Lemuel Jeanlepew-something.
    RB one year was terrible too. We traded Christine Micheal to Dallas, resigned him, then cut him when we realized why we got rid of him in the first place.

    This is just a couple of examples I can think of.

    So, why are the reporters NOT looking at WRs and to determine if the coaches are preaching blocking techniques. If Vannett or Dissly outperform Dickson, they better play -Always compete? Glad to hear PC say Penny needs to block because that's always been a requirement. I hope they select a good blocking FB, because we saw the scamble mode here after MRob and Derrick Coleman left the team. Remember not signing/signing Will Tukuafu? And remember Marcel Reese? He did a good job too...but what happened there?

    PC wants to instill what made this team a SB winner...I hope we see the desire, play because you deserve it, no scramble mode in filling roster spots this year.
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  • Can we just call this the "fishwife culture" and be done with it?

    God, I miss the days of actual sports writing and good sound football discussions, rather than ridiculous gossip and conjecture.
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:Can we just call this the "fishwife culture" and be done with it?

    God, I miss the days of actual sports writing and good sound football discussions, rather than ridiculous gossip and conjecture.

    Unfortunately, with all the changes this team has done this off season, no one can really discuss in "good sound" detail what is and is not going to happen. This team is not going to look like the 2011 team. They are not going to win like the 2013 team. They are not going to putter offensively like the 2017 team.

    They are going to play like the 2018 team.
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  • MD5eahawks wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Can we just call this the "fishwife culture" and be done with it?

    God, I miss the days of actual sports writing and good sound football discussions, rather than ridiculous gossip and conjecture.

    Unfortunately, with all the changes this team has done this off season, no one can really discuss in "good sound" detail what is and is not going to happen. This team is not going to look like the 2011 team. They are not going to win like the 2013 team. They are not going to putter offensively like the 2017 team.

    They are going to play like the 2018 team.


    Nailed it.

    This is really the most interesting year to me in the PC/JS era. Are we going to get back on track and rise again? Or are we going to implode under the weight of some poor FO drafting, trades and contract decision making?

    I'd sure hate for John and Pete to go out like that, but it's certainly a possibility. Like you said, no one knows.
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  • Players get old and hurt (Sherman, Bennett, Avril, Chancellor). It requires difficult decision making.

    Actually, you can add Lynch to that list, as well. He got old and hurt, retired for a year, and then came back to play for his hometown.

    In my mind, the hiring of new assistant coaching staff will go a long way in getting us back on track to our core philosophy.
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    hawknation2018
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  • The things some people are not figuring into their equation are:
    1. New coaches across the board with the exception of Pete.
    2. A new offense. This can be a wild card. I have to assume the overall performance of the offense will improve. If they show enough improvement to score in the first quarter then they've improved 25% right out of the gate. They are also adamant about improving the run game.
    3. With an improved run game comes time of possession. That lends itself directly to rest for the defense. A rested defense can be quick throughout the game.
    4. Time of possession means clock control. Less time for the opponent to score. This was one of the biggest factors in that historic defense.

    Football 101 right there.

    This is pretty much the formula Pete wants to use. Simple as that. Run the damn ball and hope most of the other stuff falls in place. That keeps the game close. And when you have a QB like Wilson, you will win most of those close games.
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  • People vastly underestimate the difficulty in going to the playoffs every year in the NFL. It's fine to be disappointed with last year, but we were still 9-7 with an enormous amount of injuries and a couple of narrow losses. Plenty of good teams have had worse outcomes. The only NFL team that has been more successful than us has also been able to pay the greatest QB ever half of what he's worth over the last decade. That is an unsustainable model to idolize.

    Speaking of the Patriots, Brady has heard the same thing from Belichick for 18 years now. Why doesn't he complain about it in the media? In my view a few of the players like Bennett and Sherman are the ones who lost their way, putting their egos ahead of the team and not having the maturity to move on from one bad outcome.
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  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:I would rather like to think that they are refining their way.

    I've said it for years, that I disagreed with Schneider's concept of grading drafts relative to your team. I felt and wrote that it was a recipe for passing on great talent for midlevel/replacement level upgrades at soft positions.

    That resulted in having generically bad players not worth resigning over the course of multiple successive drafts and forcing us to resign great, if aging talent.

    Simply put, I don't think they lost their way. So much as they made a mistake (repeatedly unfortunately). Their way early on was to fail quickly. And I think in that sense they are sticking with their way. By getting rid of guys whose time here had run it's course.


    Seattle had to lose Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Cliff Avril, and the starting running back on the roster to injury; have the worst OL in the league for a year; ; get a down year from Jon Ryan and Justin Britt; and sign an awful kicker...to fall to 9-7. All that's needed is to return some of these factors to marginal - maybe even just one, given we lost multiple games by one field goal's worth - and we're back in the playoffs.

    So I'm really not seeing the team having lost their way. I'm seeing a down year via something of a perfect storm. I'm also seeing an awful lot of "what have you done for me lately" handwringing - not from you, Attyla, necessarily, but from a lot of fans and from the media. The media I expect it from.
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    MontanaHawk05
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  • Yeah, it's a bit much of a what have you done for me lately league, but we haven't come close to a #1 seed in a few years now and that's really what I'm looking for in order for us to be contending. We did have a shot at the #2 seed in 2016, but blew that in embarrassing fashion to a hapless Cards team at home... Just haven't played well enough consistently since 2014 tbh. Blown leads to Cinci and Carolina in 2015, getting swept by a terrible Rams team. Wilson was injured, yes, in 2016, but there's no excuse for the aforementioned Cards loss or the Bucs loss, both of which occurred later in the year when he was healthier.

    Honestly, we had a shot in those years, but you just have to win enough damn games man. Locking up a bye (usually at least 12 wins) puts you in a great position to compete and we just haven't done that since 2014. Playoff games at home are a huge deal, especially for the Seahawks.
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  • I don’t believe “lost their way” is the proper way to put it. It’s more like Pete’s original plan ran its course. He got us to two owls with it but it was never long term sustainable. Hopefully he has another plan or can re start his cycle again.
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:Can we just call this the "fishwife culture" and be done with it?

    God, I miss the days of actual sports writing and good sound football discussions, rather than ridiculous gossip and conjecture.


    I miss the day when football players acted like men. Not whine about things like, "the coaches message has gotten stale." You get paid tens of millions of dollars, win a Superbowl, but just can't stand the stale message? Grow a fricking pair.
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  • truehawksfan wrote:I read the article a couple of times and I see where Sherm's going with this. His definition of losing our way:
    -Type of players
    -Reactive/Not proactive in player acquisition
    -Always compete

    lukerguy's avatar is a perfect example of what our WRs are required to do and do well: Block. When was the last time you saw a WR deliver a crushing block like Tate did to that Cowboy LB? Instead, Kearse and Tate were replaced with Harvin and PRich. Fast guys who avoided blocks like Jimmy. Lockett does a great Tate imitation on returns, but blocking?

    And speaking about Jimmy, we did a terrible job replacing Zach Miler. Vannett and now Dissly. Last year was awful. If we want to run the ball, put Vannett out there. Sure Jimmy is getting paid, but there's no way, I mean no way he's a better blocker then Vannett. is that always compete?

    And speaking about always compete, Cary Williams was inserted as a starter despite having zero experience on the kick step. Jeremy Lane and Deshawn Shead was groomed to play this style and they did a much better job, but, Williams was starting and getting burned in the terrible learn/train on the field. How did that go?

    Reactive/Fly by the seat of you pants player acquisition. When we traded Unger, did we have someone on the roster to replace him? Nope. We scrambled by signing a street free agent- Patrick Lewis- and a retread Lemuel Jeanlepew-something.
    RB one year was terrible too. We traded Christine Micheal to Dallas, resigned him, then cut him when we realized why we got rid of him in the first place.

    This is just a couple of examples I can think of.

    So, why are the reporters NOT looking at WRs and to determine if the coaches are preaching blocking techniques. If Vannett or Dissly outperform Dickson, they better play -Always compete? Glad to hear PC say Penny needs to block because that's always been a requirement. I hope they select a good blocking FB, because we saw the scamble mode here after MRob and Derrick Coleman left the team. Remember not signing/signing Will Tukuafu? And remember Marcel Reese? He did a good job too...but what happened there?

    PC wants to instill what made this team a SB winner...I hope we see the desire, play because you deserve it, no scramble mode in filling roster spots this year.


    Good post.

    Man, I miss Golden Tate. I understand the desire for a player like Harvin, I was pumped when we got him, but Golden was the epitome of what is needed at WR for this offense. Elusive, tough SOB, home run threat, did all the little things well, solid blocker, chip on his shoulder. He landed in a great spot with the Lions, gets tons of passes and a good contract, but in retrospect he should have never been let go.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:See I feel like we already had lost our way 2-3 years ago by keeping our overpriced defensive stars and getting away from pounding the rock, resulted in getting soft on defense an offense.

    So HAVE we lost our way? No. DID we lose our way and are now getting back to building a young nasty defense again to pair with a physical run game using Russell's amazing play action? Yes.


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  • I was speaking in a broader sense but you are correct that the loss of a running game has derailed one of the deadliest play action threats the league has seen.
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  • They haven't so much lost their way as lost their advantage.

    When we were dominating, we had much better players. The defense was literally historic. We probably have at least 2 HOF on that defense, and 2 borderline HOFs. We also had a scheme that perfectly fit their strengths and weaknesses. I remain convinced that had we kept Browner - we win that SB. So one of the best rosters on D, almost ever and a borderline HOF quality RB.

    This was a physical smashmouth team that could wear down teams because the players were tougher, more violent and stronger/faster than the guys on the other side.

    We lost guys. We cut guys. We failed to re-sign key pieces and we traded for pieces of garbage or Charmin soft players.

    We moved from physical to finesse. We tossed Always Compete into the dumpster, but in reality it was only there for defensive players and special teams anyway.

    But ultimately, what we really did was lose the advantage that better players than the other team gave us.

    It isn't like we had great tactical or strategic coaching. We had coaches that developed players well and let them play to their strengths. But the actual use of our guys was pretty brute force. We never had the coaches to be able to scheme our way to a win. So when we lost the player advantage we lost games.

    We are now middle of road in roster strength, maybe worse overall but the QB is very good and that carries a lot of weight. Not enough to carry a team to or through the playoffs though. So the key difference is the roster is weaker, not as deep, and filled with holes now. Teams that have those issues lose more games.

    Note: I will concede that Brim's point on losing play action killed us though. I swear I thought I saw play action fakes last year when we had literally no run game. I don't think it fooled anyone, just wasted a down - sometimes a possession.
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  • Sure we had some great players but the whole was greater than the pieces. Bennett looked like a future HOF until we had to let the depth around him go in order to pay his salary. Don’t get me wrong, he was still pretty good for us but not nearly the same level when forced to become an every down player.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:
    Note: I will concede that Brim's point on losing play action killed us though. I swear I thought I saw play action fakes last year when we had literally no run game. I don't think it fooled anyone, just wasted a down - sometimes a possession.


    We did fine with play action. Look at the Texans game, we had five net rushing yards and were murdering them with play action all game.
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  • Stars got old. Stupid to say they lost their way. They didn't replace them well, especially Lynch and the OL.

    But this is a fact. Their worst season since RW is 9-7. Teams who make top 10 picks frequently have to pay for it with horrible seasons. Perhaps PC/JS biggest "failure" was being too loyal to people like Sherm. The Pats have no problem trading away stars.

    The draft is a crap shoot. It takes some real luck to be consistently successful picking stars. Another luck factor is injuries.

    I don't believe their "way" is so lost that the Hawks can't learn and recover from it.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Seattle had to lose Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Cliff Avril, and the starting running back on the roster to injury; have the worst OL in the league for a year; ; get a down year from Jon Ryan and Justin Britt; and sign an awful kicker...to fall to 9-7. All that's needed is to return some of these factors to marginal - maybe even just one, given we lost multiple games by one field goal's worth - and we're back in the playoffs.

    So I'm really not seeing the team having lost their way. I'm seeing a down year via something of a perfect storm. I'm also seeing an awful lot of "what have you done for me lately" handwringing - not from you, Attyla, necessarily, but from a lot of fans and from the media. The media I expect it from.


    They gutted the team for a reason. I'm not trying to argue with you Montana, but your making it out to sound like whatever could have gone wrong last season did and we would have been fine just leaving well enough alone, when in truth the team has been in a downward spiral since 'The Play'. Sure they made the playoffs, but they havent been serious contenders since 2014. This reboot needed to happen, but its still to be seen if its even going to work.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Seattle had to lose Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Cliff Avril, and the starting running back on the roster to injury; have the worst OL in the league for a year; ; get a down year from Jon Ryan and Justin Britt; and sign an awful kicker...to fall to 9-7. All that's needed is to return some of these factors to marginal - maybe even just one, given we lost multiple games by one field goal's worth - and we're back in the playoffs.

    So I'm really not seeing the team having lost their way. I'm seeing a down year via something of a perfect storm. I'm also seeing an awful lot of "what have you done for me lately" handwringing - not from you, Attyla, necessarily, but from a lot of fans and from the media. The media I expect it from.


    They gutted the team for a reason. I'm not trying to argue with you Montana, but your making it out to sound like whatever could have gone wrong last season did and we would have been fine just leaving well enough alone, when in truth the team has been in a downward spiral since 'The Play'. Sure they made the playoffs, but they havent been serious contenders since 2014. This reboot needed to happen, but its still to be seen if its even going to work.


    Like I said in another thread, you want to be pessimistic and are finding reasons to do so. You go ahead and continue with that. But I personally am not interested in debates with people who can't get over "The Play" any more than Richard Sherman could, and think continued playoff participation qualifies as a "downward spiral". I know half a football league who would love to spiral the way the Seahawks have.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Seattle had to lose Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Cliff Avril, and the starting running back on the roster to injury; have the worst OL in the league for a year; ; get a down year from Jon Ryan and Justin Britt; and sign an awful kicker...to fall to 9-7. All that's needed is to return some of these factors to marginal - maybe even just one, given we lost multiple games by one field goal's worth - and we're back in the playoffs.

    So I'm really not seeing the team having lost their way. I'm seeing a down year via something of a perfect storm. I'm also seeing an awful lot of "what have you done for me lately" handwringing - not from you, Attyla, necessarily, but from a lot of fans and from the media. The media I expect it from.


    They gutted the team for a reason. I'm not trying to argue with you Montana, but your making it out to sound like whatever could have gone wrong last season did and we would have been fine just leaving well enough alone, when in truth the team has been in a downward spiral since 'The Play'. Sure they made the playoffs, but they havent been serious contenders since 2014. This reboot needed to happen, but its still to be seen if its even going to work.


    Like I said in another thread, you want to be pessimistic and are finding reasons to do so. You go ahead and continue with that. But I personally am not interested in debates with people who can't get over "The Play" any more than Richard Sherman could, and think continued playoff participation qualifies as a "downward spiral". I know half a football league who would love to spiral the way the Seahawks have.



    That's why half the league isn't in the playoffs and ascending versus descending, recognition of issues and acting on them may give you a down year but puts you back on the path to ascension, Patriots and Steelers and Packers are three teams that keep themselves in the hunt by doing this.
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  • Well all people have to do is look at the first couple years. PC came in and went from the dismal previous season to 7-9 with a bunch of pick ups. then with a couple of drafts got to 11-5. This team from last year is no way starting from the place that Jim Mora left the team at 5-11.

    This change over is no difference than the first PC year but starting from a much stronger base. Notwithstanding that all the pundits see a 4 or 5 win season I believe you will see the team surprise a lot of people with a 9 to 11 win season. If PC can get 7 wins out of Travaris Jackson he can definitely get 10 wins out of the remains of this team and RW.
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  • Pete doesn’t have TJ on this squad. If we fail to protect Russell and he goes down we will go O - fer the remainder of the season.
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