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Wagner: A lot of people sleeping on the talent that we have

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  • After parting ways with longtime veterans like Richard Sherman, Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril, the narrative for this year’s Seahawks season has been akin to a fresh start. But there’s at least one player who doesn’t see it that way – and he cautions those who underestimate Seattle’s squad.

    “For me, I think a lot of people are sleeping on the talent that we have in the room,” linebacker Bobby Wagner told Brock Huard and Mike Salk during an interview with 710 ESPN Seattle Monday morning. “A lot of people are saying it’s a fresh start. No, it’s just kind of that mentality. We had guys that left for whatever reason and it’s the next-guy-up mentality.


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  • Aros wrote:After parting ways with longtime veterans like Richard Sherman, Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril, the narrative for this year’s Seahawks season has been akin to a fresh start. But there’s at least one player who doesn’t see it that way – and he cautions those who underestimate Seattle’s squad.

    “For me, I think a lot of people are sleeping on the talent that we have in the room,” linebacker Bobby Wagner told Brock Huard and Mike Salk during an interview with 710 ESPN Seattle Monday morning. “A lot of people are saying it’s a fresh start. No, it’s just kind of that mentality. We had guys that left for whatever reason and it’s the next-guy-up mentality.


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    I (along with others here) have been saying this all along. If you look at the roster we have remaining, we still have as much pro-bowl talent as most of the playoff teams in the league. A lot will depend on how the younger talent steps up, but just because they haven't had the opportunity before now doesn't mean they are not talented or incapable of being solid or even better than average starters in this league.

    There's a lot of unknown to this team right now and that scares the prognosticators, but I still look at this team as a contender until they show themselves not to be.
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  • Sounds like a whole new (old) kind of chip is building. This, the one hand man brothers, and the secret weapon game changing punter, and the too small of school RB are going to surprise some talking heads (brainless variety) types me thinks!! :2thumbs: :rumble:

    I actually prefer being the underdog...It's what we know over the long haul! :irishdrinkers:
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  • Seymour wrote:
    I actually prefer being the underdog...It's what we know over the long haul! :irishdrinkers:


    This I agree with, this group has always played better with that "no one believes in us" chip on their shoulders.

    Which I know isn't unique, coaches are always trying to play that card when trying to motivate their players, but that's what has worked for Pete more than most, so he must know how to use that philosophical motivator better than most..............AND it's the type of players we draft.

    No more evidence needed than Shaquem.
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  • Just an alternative viewpoint. When we were the best team in the league (shoot, even before the rest of the league knew it), the attitude was we are the best and anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool. I think we're gonna miss that, even though Pete felt like he had to get rid of those characters or they left for money reasons or whatever. Back then we had some straight up dawgs in the locker room. Not sure who fulfills that role now, but hopefully a younger guy can step up. Maybe Frank and Jarran?
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  • adeltaY wrote:Just an alternative viewpoint. When we were the best team in the league (shoot, even before the rest of the league knew it), the attitude was we are the best and anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool. I think we're gonna miss that, even though Pete felt like he had to get rid of those characters or they left for money reasons or whatever. Back then we had some straight up dawgs in the locker room. Not sure who fulfills that role now, but hopefully a younger guy can step up. Maybe Frank and Jarran?


    We've still got some old dogs that can fill that leadership role (Baldwin, Wagner, Clark, Brown)...........and hopefully some new ones (Penny, Griffin brothers).

    I'm not worried about leadership, this team has a great mix of old and young now, and hopefully with the poor attitudes gone this team can get focused and back to what counts, winning.
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  • I think we could make the playoffs this year, most definitely. The main issue here is a few things need to come together. We're going to need somebody, or a rotation of guys to step up and replace Bennett, and Avril in the pass rushing department. The other hurdle we need to overcome is the big elephant in the room -- the offensive line. I don't think they will be worse than last year -- that being said we can't continue to field a unit that can't get out of their own way and hope to do anything.

    The last question that our offense is going to need to answer is how well they adapt to Schottenheimers play-book. It is notoriously hard for players to pick up, and complicated. My guess is we're going to have a pretty slow start on offense. I'm glad the co-offensive coordinator arrangement is gone though -- that is a plus.
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  • We had the best defense in the league and the mediots no matter the numbers kept doubting them, that was the Chip we carried for a while, they doubted and gave Marshawn a bad time, they doubted and gave our Pedestrian receivers no credit, they doubted Russell Wilson who was a career back up and too short.

    When we blasted the Broncos all that went away. We made it back but with none of the attitude we had before, then Bevellgate happened and everything spun downward like a Toilet Bowl being flushed.

    We have drafted depth, we just have not seen any of it play together, we have a new OC and O line coach, we have not seen what he can do but the pieces he has to work with were marked as at least average talent. We have a Running Back stable that is still unproven due to health issues.

    Lots of questions and unknowns, we know the pieces are there, we just don't know what Pete is going to do, Stir Fry, Bar B Que, or Shake and Bake with them.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Just an alternative viewpoint. When we were the best team in the league (shoot, even before the rest of the league knew it), the attitude was we are the best and anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool. I think we're gonna miss that, even though Pete felt like he had to get rid of those characters or they left for money reasons or whatever. Back then we had some straight up dawgs in the locker room. Not sure who fulfills that role now, but hopefully a younger guy can step up. Maybe Frank and Jarran?


    We've still got some old dogs that can fill that leadership role (Baldwin, Wagner, Clark, Brown)...........and hopefully some new ones (Penny, Griffin brothers).

    I'm not worried about leadership, this team has a great mix of old and young now, and hopefully with the poor attitudes gone this team can get focused and back to what counts, winning.


    I agree with the leadership being set, but the guys we have left are quieter leaders. It's possible that having real alpha dog type players like Browner and Sherman was also important from a team personality standpoint. Might not actually be necessary, just felt like throwing that out there.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Just an alternative viewpoint. When we were the best team in the league (shoot, even before the rest of the league knew it), the attitude was we are the best and anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool. I think we're gonna miss that, even though Pete felt like he had to get rid of those characters or they left for money reasons or whatever. Back then we had some straight up dawgs in the locker room. Not sure who fulfills that role now, but hopefully a younger guy can step up. Maybe Frank and Jarran?


    We've still got some old dogs that can fill that leadership role (Baldwin, Wagner, Clark, Brown)...........and hopefully some new ones (Penny, Griffin brothers).

    I'm not worried about leadership, this team has a great mix of old and young now, and hopefully with the poor attitudes gone this team can get focused and back to what counts, winning.


    I agree with the leadership being set, but the guys we have left are quieter leaders. It's possible that having real alpha dog type players like Browner and Sherman was also important from a team personality standpoint. Might not actually be necessary, just felt like throwing that out there.


    Really wouldn’t consider Sherm as a leader, a big mouth for sure, a leader? No.

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  • toffee wrote:Really wouldn’t consider Sherm as a leader, a big mouth for sure, a leader? No.


    Not so fast.

    Look, I got tired of his act as any 12 could have and did, but you are looking at the situation with typical 2D/Fan Vision.

    We see what we see, but we aren't privy to locker room access and the day-to-day goings on within any given day behind the scenes. Sure, where there is smoke, there is fire and the media is good at sniffing smoke but lets not pretend we knew the inner workings or the day-to-day interactions between Sherman and the team.

    I would bet you if ANY of our top players were to post here in regards to Sherman (Doug, Russell, Bobby, et al) even now they would tell you he is a brother, was always a class leader and they have nothing but the ultimate respect for him. EVEN as a 49er.
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  • Want Sherman's nickname "Ringworm sherm"? Hardly a glowing indictment.
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  • While keeping in mind the Hawks have talent left, their competition has gotten better.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Just an alternative viewpoint. When we were the best team in the league (shoot, even before the rest of the league knew it), the attitude was we are the best and anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool. I think we're gonna miss that, even though Pete felt like he had to get rid of those characters or they left for money reasons or whatever. Back then we had some straight up dawgs in the locker room. Not sure who fulfills that role now, but hopefully a younger guy can step up. Maybe Frank and Jarran?


    We've still got some old dogs that can fill that leadership role (Baldwin, Wagner, Clark, Brown)...........and hopefully some new ones (Penny, Griffin brothers).

    I'm not worried about leadership, this team has a great mix of old and young now, and hopefully with the poor attitudes gone this team can get focused and back to what counts, winning.


    I agree with the leadership being set, but the guys we have left are quieter leaders. It's possible that having real alpha dog type players like Browner and Sherman was also important from a team personality standpoint. Might not actually be necessary, just felt like throwing that out there.


    Baldwin's never been a quiet leader............and if you follow Brown or Clark on Twitter you'd see that they're not shy about voicing their opinions. Also remember Kam isn't gone, he's still going to be a practice, on field and locker room leader.

    Yes, leadership starts with kicking ass on the field. Because no teammate will listen unless you back up your mouth on the field. Which is why I'm not worried............still plenty of vocal players, on both sides of the ball to keep the locker room in check.

    Because as we've found out over the past 3-4 years, leadership can also turn sour and work against your locker room when those leaders show discontent towards their coaches and team direction.
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  • Wagner is talking like someone who is in the team, with the team, and for the team. Glad to hear his voice, now that we have trim the noises, ie the big mouths and the come get mes.


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  • Aros wrote:
    toffee wrote:Really wouldn’t consider Sherm as a leader, a big mouth for sure, a leader? No.


    Not so fast.

    Look, I got tired of his act as any 12 could have and did, but you are looking at the situation with typical 2D/Fan Vision.

    We see what we see, but we aren't privy to locker room access and the day-to-day goings on within any given day behind the scenes. Sure, where there is smoke, there is fire and the media is good at sniffing smoke but lets not pretend we knew the inner workings or the day-to-day interactions between Sherman and the team.

    I would bet you if ANY of our top players were to post here in regards to Sherman (Doug, Russell, Bobby, et al) even now they would tell you he is a brother, was always a class leader and they have nothing but the ultimate respect for him. EVEN as a 49er.


    Agreed, sherm is a bit like TO. They both have good football acumen but they both have problem in when and how to express them.


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  • If Sherman is a leader, he is a piss poor one. Good leaders can admit wrong and make necessary change when needed. That is totally out of the question with Sherman. That and he lies his ass off when cornered and caught. People tend not to trust liars.
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  • Truth, always the victim, nothing is ever his fault etc.
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  • Seymour wrote:If Sherman is a leader, he is a piss poor one. Good leaders can admit wrong and make necessary change when needed. That is totally out of the question with Sherman. That and he lies his ass off when cornered and caught. People tend not to trust liars.


    Sherman was a leader in the Lynch mode............fierce, brash and exactly the kind of vocal leader Pete needed on and off the field to help our defense and team establish an identity that we were going to punch you in the mouth, and then talk about it.

    Which was great until we lost the SB to the Patriot's and some of the players like Lynch and Sherman started pointing that anger and volatility inwards towards the team, and were no longer pointing it outwards towards the media and other teams/players, etc.

    So yes, Sherman can be a leader if he buys in, because he is a damn hard worker and no one plays harder to lead by example. But he's also a know it all who plays the victim when he gets caught in a lie. Which is why it was time for him to go, his play no longer warranted his mouth and poor attitude.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:If Sherman is a leader, he is a piss poor one. Good leaders can admit wrong and make necessary change when needed. That is totally out of the question with Sherman. That and he lies his ass off when cornered and caught. People tend not to trust liars.


    Sherman was a leader in the Lynch mode............fierce, brash and exactly the kind of vocal leader Pete needed on and off the field to help our defense and team establish an identity that we were going to punch you in the mouth, and then talk about it.

    Which was great until we lost the SB to the Patriot's and some of the players like Lynch and Sherman started pointing that anger and volatility inwards towards the team, and were no longer pointing it outwards towards the media and other teams/players, etc.

    So yes, Sherman can be a leader if he buys in, because he is a damn hard worker and no one plays harder to lead by example. But he's also a know it all who plays the victim when he gets caught in a lie. Which is why it was time for him to go, his play no longer warranted his mouth and poor attitude.


    Agree. Problem with that type of fair weather leader is that when you need him the most, he fails and becomes part of the problem or a bigger problem than the problem itself.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:If Sherman is a leader, he is a piss poor one. Good leaders can admit wrong and make necessary change when needed. That is totally out of the question with Sherman. That and he lies his ass off when cornered and caught. People tend not to trust liars.


    Sherman was a leader in the Lynch mode............fierce, brash and exactly the kind of vocal leader Pete needed on and off the field to help our defense and team establish an identity that we were going to punch you in the mouth, and then talk about it.

    Which was great until we lost the SB to the Patriot's and some of the players like Lynch and Sherman started pointing that anger and volatility inwards towards the team, and were no longer pointing it outwards towards the media and other teams/players, etc.

    So yes, Sherman can be a leader if he buys in, because he is a damn hard worker and no one plays harder to lead by example. But he's also a know it all who plays the victim when he gets caught in a lie. Which is why it was time for him to go, his play no longer warranted his mouth and poor attitude.


    Agree. Problem with that type of fair weather leader is that when you need him the most, he fails and becomes part of the problem or a bigger problem than the problem itself.


    This


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  • Completely agree, and that is why he's gone.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • Seymour wrote:Sounds like a whole new (old) kind of chip is building. This, the one hand man brothers, and the secret weapon game changing punter, and the too small of school RB are going to surprise some talking heads (brainless variety) types me thinks!! :2thumbs: :rumble:

    I actually prefer being the underdog...It's what we know over the long haul! :irishdrinkers:

    Yup, The last time we had a legit chip....well ask Denver what happened. jollywhopped.
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  • hawks85 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Sounds like a whole new (old) kind of chip is building. This, the one hand man brothers, and the secret weapon game changing punter, and the too small of school RB are going to surprise some talking heads (brainless variety) types me thinks!! :2thumbs: :rumble:

    I actually prefer being the underdog...It's what we know over the long haul! :irishdrinkers:

    Yup, The last time we had a legit chip....well ask Denver what happened. jollywhopped.


    This time it would be even sweeter .... heck, even at 8-8 we will be showing the national media a finger, 11-5? facial.


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