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Earl a no show.....

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Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:41 am

Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:43 am
  • Not surprised. It's just strength and conditioning, which he can do on his own.

    Not an issue imo.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:55 am
  • Question is if he has shown up the last 8 years. Not whether it's required, which it isn't.
    Last edited by vin.couve12 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:01 am
  • vin.couve12 wrote:Question is if he has shown up the last 8 years. Ot whether it's required, which it isn't.


    I believe he has been at all, or at least most of the OTA's. I think the only other time he's missed was when he was rehabbing.

    This is not a big deal for me. Earl wants a big extension, we're not giving it to him. So of course he's not going to show up at a voluntary workout.

    He's also a vet and doesn't need to be here, other than to show he's committed to the program moving forward.............which he is most definitely not without getting his extension.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 am
  • It was rhetorical. Makes the trade all the more likely, which is now likelier than likely.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:07 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Question is if he has shown up the last 8 years. Ot whether it's required, which it isn't.


    I believe he has been at all, or at least most of the OTA's. I think the only other time he's missed was when he was rehabbing.

    This is not a big deal for me. Earl wants a big extension, we're not giving it to him. So of course he's not going to show up at a voluntary workout.

    He's also a vet and doesn't need to be here, other than to show he's committed to the program moving forward.............which he is most definitely not without getting his extension.


    Pretty much all of this. He has said that he wants an extension. We aren't going to be able to work out one that works with both sides at this point in the off season as we need to see where we sit financially, so I would have been more surprised had he shown up to something like this.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:18 am
  • If he isn't traded by draft day, he should still be traded with a target of a 2019 1st plus whatever else you can get.

    There are now only two options. Extend or trade and the latter is the only smart one.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:24 am
  • vin.couve12 wrote:If he isn't traded by draft day, he should still be traded with a target of a 2019 1st plus whatever else you can get.

    There are now only two options. Extend or trade and the latter is the only smart one.


    I think we know option #1 (extend) isn't happening, or else it would have already.

    But IMO there are still two options;

    1. Trade
    2. Can't get a reasonable trade offer, he holds out..........which will lead to a franchise tag and we do this all over again next year.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:27 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:If he isn't traded by draft day, he should still be traded with a target of a 2019 1st plus whatever else you can get.

    There are now only two options. Extend or trade and the latter is the only smart one.


    I think we know option #1 (extend) isn't happening, or else it would have already.

    But IMO there are still two options;

    1. Trade
    2. Can't get a reasonable trade offer, he holds out..........which will lead to a franchise tag and we do this all over again next year.

    Won't end well with #2. I've never been Earl's biggest fan, but he's not anyone's bootch. I know a lot of fans vicariously believe in that level of control, but he doesn't have to play. Furthermore, I don't know that you'd want him to under those circumstances.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:29 am
  • I don't think Earl will be traded. To get value, Earl would have to agree to an extension with another team. That's probably not going to happen at this point.

    Ditching voluntary workouts before the draft is the standard leverage play for the high-value veteran on the final year of a deal with no guaranteed money. He wants an extension with the Seahawks, and he should get one. If not, Kam demonstrated that missing games is a lose-lose proposition. Seahawks would retain the option to franchise Thomas next year if an extension is not in the offing.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:49 am
  • vin.couve12 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:If he isn't traded by draft day, he should still be traded with a target of a 2019 1st plus whatever else you can get.

    There are now only two options. Extend or trade and the latter is the only smart one.


    I think we know option #1 (extend) isn't happening, or else it would have already.

    But IMO there are still two options;

    1. Trade
    2. Can't get a reasonable trade offer, he holds out..........which will lead to a franchise tag and we do this all over again next year.

    Won't end well with #2. I've never been Earl's biggest fan, but he's not anyone's bootch. I know a lot of fans vicariously believe in that level of control, but he doesn't have to play. Furthermore, I don't know that you'd want him to under those circumstances.


    But he does have to play, the Skins went what three years franchising Cousins?

    I don't want it to get to that either, and I'm sure neither Earl or the Hawks FO does either. But make no mistake, he does have to play.............after week six of holding out each year.

    My point is we're not going to trade Earl for a bad deal just to get rid of him. So scenario #2 is a VERY real scenario.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:53 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:For voluntary workouts.

    I don’t think it’s an issue, do you?
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -workouts/


    That is not "an issue". But Earl saying he wont play under his current contract on national TV sure as hell is.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:00 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:If he isn't traded by draft day, he should still be traded with a target of a 2019 1st plus whatever else you can get.

    There are now only two options. Extend or trade and the latter is the only smart one.


    I think we know option #1 (extend) isn't happening, or else it would have already.

    But IMO there are still two options;

    1. Trade
    2. Can't get a reasonable trade offer, he holds out..........which will lead to a franchise tag and we do this all over again next year.

    Won't end well with #2. I've never been Earl's biggest fan, but he's not anyone's bootch. I know a lot of fans vicariously believe in that level of control, but he doesn't have to play. Furthermore, I don't know that you'd want him to under those circumstances.


    But he does have to play, the Skins went what three years franchising Cousins?

    I don't want it to get to that either, and I'm sure neither Earl or the Hawks FO does either. But make no mistake, he does have to play.............after week six of holding out each year.

    My point is we're not going to trade Earl for a bad deal just to get rid of him. So scenario #2 is a VERY real scenario.

    No...he doesn't have to play. Earl is capable of of throwing up a deuces and being out. Next year is next year and he doesn't have to do that either. And there are larger implications with other team members that are more important than just Earl. Also, you would never trade him just to get rid of him. A 1st and 3rd in 2019 is something a team might give up where they wouldn't in this draft.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:32 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:For voluntary workouts.

    I don’t think it’s an issue, do you?
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -workouts/


    That is not "an issue". But Earl saying he wont play under his current contract on national TV sure as hell is.


    Why is that such a big deal this time? Our front office has said they only redo contracts when they are in their last year. They have followed that with all their stars that they have kept around. Earl is a smart guy. He knows if he doesn't get an extension that means he's on his way out next year, so why would he want to play into a year that wasn't guaranteed when he could (I'd say should) be extended. If not here, there are plenty of teams who would extend him.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:37 am
  • Why should it be an issue?
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:52 am
  • kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:For voluntary workouts.

    I don’t think it’s an issue, do you?
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -workouts/


    That is not "an issue". But Earl saying he wont play under his current contract on national TV sure as hell is.


    Why is that such a big deal this time? Our front office has said they only redo contracts when they are in their last year. They have followed that with all their stars that they have kept around. Earl is a smart guy. He knows if he doesn't get an extension that means he's on his way out next year, so why would he want to play into a year that wasn't guaranteed when he could (I'd say should) be extended. If not here, there are plenty of teams who would extend him.


    I said it was an "issue". Obviously it is if they want him to finish this contract then see where he as at and decide.

    As to these plenty of teams (keep in mind he wants top $$ at 30+), you may want to forward that list to JS as they seem to be having troubles getting any reasonable value for him right now.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:12 pm
  • vin.couve12 wrote:No...he doesn't have to play. Earl is capable of of throwing up a deuces and being out. Next year is next year and he doesn't have to do that either. And there are larger implications with other team members that are more important than just Earl. Also, you would never trade him just to get rid of him. A 1st and 3rd in 2019 is something a team might give up where they wouldn't in this draft.


    You really think Earl would just retire, give up his 10.4M this year, and 8-10M of being franchised next year and/or the year after?

    I'd give that a less than 1% chance of happening. He's too competitive, and too stubborn to just walk away from the game he loves and has said is his life. I know he's an emotional dude, but no way that would happen.

    At worst he holds out and comes back to make sure 2018 counts, then asks again to be traded next year.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:31 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:For voluntary workouts.

    I don’t think it’s an issue, do you?
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -workouts/


    That is not "an issue". But Earl saying he wont play under his current contract on national TV sure as hell is.


    Why is that such a big deal this time? Our front office has said they only redo contracts when they are in their last year. They have followed that with all their stars that they have kept around. Earl is a smart guy. He knows if he doesn't get an extension that means he's on his way out next year, so why would he want to play into a year that wasn't guaranteed when he could (I'd say should) be extended. If not here, there are plenty of teams who would extend him.


    I said it was an "issue". Obviously it is if they want him to finish this contract then see where he as at and decide.

    As to these plenty of teams (keep in mind he wants top $$ at 30+), you may want to forward that list to JS as they seem to be having troubles getting any reasonable value for him right now.


    You say that they haven't had a reasonable offer, which assumes that you, Schneider and the other teams all agree on what is reasonable. The issue with trading Earl isn't that nobody wants him, it's that nobody wants him at our cost + his cost. If he hit free agency today, he'd have multiple high value offers out of the gate.

    Earl Thomas is still a high value player he'll get his extension either here or elsewhere, of this I am certain. The biggest question right now is whether the Seahawks value him more than we are going to be offered. I'm thinking that the safe bet is that we extend him here before training camp begins. Only time will tell, but it likely won't tell the whole story.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:45 pm
  • vin.couve12 wrote: I've never been Earl's biggest fan


    That much is obvious. Any reason why?
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:59 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    That is not "an issue". But Earl saying he wont play under his current contract on national TV sure as hell is.


    Why is that such a big deal this time? Our front office has said they only redo contracts when they are in their last year. They have followed that with all their stars that they have kept around. Earl is a smart guy. He knows if he doesn't get an extension that means he's on his way out next year, so why would he want to play into a year that wasn't guaranteed when he could (I'd say should) be extended. If not here, there are plenty of teams who would extend him.


    I said it was an "issue". Obviously it is if they want him to finish this contract then see where he as at and decide.

    As to these plenty of teams (keep in mind he wants top $$ at 30+), you may want to forward that list to JS as they seem to be having troubles getting any reasonable value for him right now.


    You say that they haven't had a reasonable offer, which assumes that you, Schneider and the other teams all agree on what is reasonable. The issue with trading Earl isn't that nobody wants him, it's that nobody wants him at our cost + his cost. If he hit free agency today, he'd have multiple high value offers out of the gate.

    Earl Thomas is still a high value player he'll get his extension either here or elsewhere, of this I am certain. The biggest question right now is whether the Seahawks value him more than we are going to be offered. I'm thinking that the safe bet is that we extend him here before training camp begins. Only time will tell, but it likely won't tell the whole story.


    I agree in general, but the only way any team "extends him" is this year and that comes at the additional cost of trade assets in picks or players without saying. "If he hits FA today", it would not be an extension. It would be a whole new contract, so that I consider an entirely different scenario myself.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 pm
  • Re: Trade.....most teams cannot afford the Hawks asking price. He'll be at Training Camp come July.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:15 pm
  • Bigpumpkin wrote:Re: Trade.....most teams cannot afford the Hawks asking price. He'll be at Training Camp come July.


    Every team with high draft picks can afford it, the question is do they want to afford it for Earl.............AND give him the big extension he wants.

    Definitely not easy, and why Dallas has been the only team mentioned, because they know Earl would ball out for them, and it'd be great for their fanbase and locker room.

    But you're right, hard to pull off, but that's where we're at.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:21 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Why is that such a big deal this time? Our front office has said they only redo contracts when they are in their last year. They have followed that with all their stars that they have kept around. Earl is a smart guy. He knows if he doesn't get an extension that means he's on his way out next year, so why would he want to play into a year that wasn't guaranteed when he could (I'd say should) be extended. If not here, there are plenty of teams who would extend him.


    I said it was an "issue". Obviously it is if they want him to finish this contract then see where he as at and decide.

    As to these plenty of teams (keep in mind he wants top $$ at 30+), you may want to forward that list to JS as they seem to be having troubles getting any reasonable value for him right now.


    You say that they haven't had a reasonable offer, which assumes that you, Schneider and the other teams all agree on what is reasonable. The issue with trading Earl isn't that nobody wants him, it's that nobody wants him at our cost + his cost. If he hit free agency today, he'd have multiple high value offers out of the gate.

    Earl Thomas is still a high value player he'll get his extension either here or elsewhere, of this I am certain. The biggest question right now is whether the Seahawks value him more than we are going to be offered. I'm thinking that the safe bet is that we extend him here before training camp begins. Only time will tell, but it likely won't tell the whole story.


    I agree in general, but the only way any team "extends him" is this year and that comes at the additional cost of trade assets in picks or players without saying. "If he hits FA today", it would not be an extension. It would be a whole new contract, so that I consider an entirely different scenario myself.


    You are lumping my two paragraphs together when I separated them to keep them as separate discussion points. His value as a player was my point in the opening paragraph. In the second paragraph my point was that Earl will get a new deal that extends his time under contract with us or with someone else.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:40 pm
  • He said he doesn't want to hang his body out for a single year contract... that makes sense.
    He wants more money? Who doesn't, even the garbage collectors want more money... that makes sense.
    He's an emotional guy, he hangs his heart on his sleeve, or however that goes... that makes sense.

    It all makes sense.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:02 pm
  • Earl - given the situation - not showing up for OTA's is not news. Russell Wilson not showing up for OTA's is news.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:02 pm
  • Or maybe there are negotiations happening and the Hawks don't want him to get a injury before the Draft and possible trade, you know that this time of year is about misdirection and false rumors etc.

    After next weekend things will be more open and clearer.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:24 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote: I've never been Earl's biggest fan


    That much is obvious. Any reason why?

    No one big particular reason. Just another overrated first rounder that doesn't provide all together more value for the ROI than other safeties that can only play FS. He's played as a cover 3 safety most of his career, which is one of 3 deep players, and is one of the easier positions as a safety. The two most stressed positions in coverage in that defense is actually the MLB and SS/WLB, whichever is playing the short middle zone. Since you go so conservative with 3 deep instead of 2, you get dinked and dunked a lot because the deep side is pretty well closed off with 3 dedicated players. We do go cover 1 and get into some blitz packages, but being surrounded by such a high level of talent makes his job easier. Fans often think it's the other way around, but it isn't true. He's even excused of a lot of short comings, often simply by people refusing to believe what they see. The TE seam route is often his responsibility, for instance, and it's been a big problem for a long time. The short zone guys are only supposed to carry that so far and hand off the inside seem to the FS. Or when he can't barely jump 30 inches off the ground for a ball when he's 5'10...or how fans and announcers, who are paid to make gods of men BTW, say how he plays sideline to sideline in coverage and he literally almost never does because he's literally not supposed to per the scheme, etc, etc, etc.

    He's a very, very good player. One of many 1st rounders who's lived up to expectations, but that isn't saying a whole lot in terms of greatness. There's just a lot of lies and nonsense regarding a lot of 1st round picks and that's par the course and he's one of them. If you know schemes and what you're looking at, who's responsibility is what, and then listen to people's BS when you know damn well better, it's just old. He's a very good player, but once he's traded you'll start to see him get exposed more without all the talent around him. His main asset has been quickness and acceleration his entire career. His brains has been the SS since he was a rook. He can't jump, leaves his feet constantly and never stopped that even with experience, etc, etc, etc. A lot like the NBA dunker that gets the fans all riled up, but could be an actual better basketball player.

    If you wanted truly elite, scheme diverse players on the Hawks during the previous tenure, you're looking at Wagner, Kam, and Bennett, as much as people don't want to admit the latter. People began to hate Bennett, in particular, but you can put him in any defense and he would thrive. Wagner is the truly special player in this D though. He's the best overall LB I've seen since Seau. And no, Lewis and Willis don't compare. Neither was nearly as good at the POA. They were pretty boys by comparison. Wagner has the overall skillset of a true great. Earl, not so much. That said, if he wants to play extortion games...well, that can be dealt with. He doesn't hold the cards he thinks he does.
    Last edited by vin.couve12 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:30 pm
  • The "new" information here is just that Earl is indeed serious about an extension. I doubt that is actually news to anybody here.

    The "trade Earl" camp should consider just how little compensation they would be willing to accept for him. The early rumors of a 1st and 2nd, or even a 1st, look very unrealistic to me for an expensive vet on an expiring contract who is looking to be the highest paid at his position.

    One likely outcome is that Earl holds out for exactly nine games and then comes back to play for the remaining seven. In that situation we could recover half of his $1.9m pro-rated 2018 signing bonus and $4.8m from his game checks, bringing his 2018 cap hit down to $4.66m. Pete is trying to win next year and Earl would absolutely be playing hard in the back half of the season, albeit while thinking about a new deal for a new team. This wouldn't be ideal but it's worse for Earl than it is for the Hawks, and it would give us a chance to look at the world without Earl while still having the option to franchise or extend him down the road.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:33 pm
  • Trade Earl for a 2nd and 3rd or 4th. Trade down in the first and take a guy with big pass rush potential like Bryan in the mid 20s. Use your 2nd on Justin Reid and let Kam be his eyes and ears (even from the film room and sideline) just like he was for Earl. You'll be fine.

    As we've seen in the last couple years, you can have an intact LOB, but if the pass rush is lacking, they have to cover longer and it's all for naught. An exercise in futility, which I ain't all about.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:38 pm
  • I was just gonna say , what if Earl doesn't play very well after he's traded and then lambaste your post but then I read your post in full and you could be right
    But that guy does some nasty stuff in the run game occasionally and takes instinctive angles doing so
    I could see how another team could covet him and am a bit surprised a trade hasn't happened yet
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:45 pm
  • hawxfreak wrote:I was just gonna say , what if Earl doesn't play very well after he's traded and then lambaste your post but then I read your post in full and you could be right
    But that guy does some nasty stuff in the run game occasionally and takes instinctive angles doing so
    I could see how another team could covet him and am a bit surprised a trade hasn't happened yet

    The fact that he isn't traded yet shows his value isn't what it's thought to be.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:45 pm
  • vin.couve12 wrote:Trade Earl for a 2nd and 3rd or 4th.

    And if that offer isn't there? The only reason why people think we can get a haul for him is entirely unsubstantiated twitter rumors. I can maybe see why Dallas would want him if he is willing to take a team friendly deal to play there. Are there any other NFL teams where if you were the GM you would part with a second round pick by itself for Earl on this expiring contract?

    I'm higher than you are on Earl the player, but contracts are what carry value in trades and I just don't see why other teams would want to trade high value picks for Earl's contract.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:31 pm
  • Fun fact, the players get $215 a day for attending these voluntary workouts.

    Wish I got $215 to go to the gym.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:15 am
  • AgentDib wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Trade Earl for a 2nd and 3rd or 4th.

    And if that offer isn't there? The only reason why people think we can get a haul for him is entirely unsubstantiated twitter rumors. I can maybe see why Dallas would want him if he is willing to take a team friendly deal to play there. Are there any other NFL teams where if you were the GM you would part with a second round pick by itself for Earl on this expiring contract?

    I'm higher than you are on Earl the player, but contracts are what carry value in trades and I just don't see why other teams would want to trade high value picks for Earl's contract.

    I actually don't disagree. He's not worth it. I would be willing to push the draft picks out to 2019, personally. The fact that he isn't traded is telling.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:25 am
  • vin.couve12 wrote:The fact that he isn't traded yet shows his value isn't what it's thought to be.



    Not necessarily.

    Most of what I've read is that if Earl's traded, it'll be right before, or even during the draft. That's when the serious suitors will lay down their best trade offers.

    If I had to give odds, IMO it's 50/50 right now that he's traded. The Hawks have their price, and I'm sure every team interested in Earl knows what it'll take not only for the trade, but what he wants for an extension.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:41 am
  • Earl still has a few good years left barring injury, however the Seahawks got his best years and it's not going to be better than that. Unfortunately at some point gaining for the present and future is required.

    The Hawks could make a huge splash in the running game in this draft if they gather a 2nd and 3rd'(s). That being said the defense is going to suffer without #29 back there.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:25 am
  • He will be traded but they might have to settle for a second and third from Dallas. They only way i see him playing next year is if Dallas backs out of the negotiations and no one else jumps in. Dallas has cleared cap space so it seems more likely than ever something gets done. Look those of you that don't want this trade to happen i have news for you. There will be a holdout Seattle will not give him an extension it will become a distraction that could get ugly .
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:31 am
  • This is what John & Pete get from being the players friends. Teams know JS has No leverage so they won't offer much for one of the best players in the game.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:59 pm
  • Rocket wrote:He said he doesn't want to hang his body out for a single year contract... that makes sense.
    He wants more money? Who doesn't, even the garbage collectors want more money... that makes sense.
    He's an emotional guy, he hangs his heart on his sleeve, or however that goes... that makes sense.

    It all makes sense.

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Re: Earl a no show.....
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:43 pm
  • One consideration that was presented by a 12 this morning, on a podcast, speculated that Earl's absence from this voluntary workouts and his absence from the Seahawks facilities entirely, was very likely because the home office and not Earl, had opted to ban Earl from any and all team related activities, or access to any of their properties.

    If they are, in fact, still entertaining any ideas about trading Earl away before the draft, they would want to make damn sure that he doesn't do anything to injure himself, because that would prevent him from passing a physical and that would effectively kill any current negotiations that might be in the works.

    There apparently is a clause In the players contracts, that provide, that in the event a player were to get injured, while engaged in any activities on Seahawks premises, that the Seahawks, would be legally liable and obligated, to pay that player whatever they were due according to the terms of their contracts. Meaning that Earl could hold out all season without penalty or recourse by Seattle and get paid too.

    If this truly the beginnings of his hold out, and he does persist in this, I vote that we do whatever we can to give him his way, and hope that any team out there, will give us a 1st round pick and anything else for him. I think it would go without saying, if this is the case, that Earl has exposed his true colors in all of this, and I believe we are better team without him on it.

    If he want's to set on the sidelines all season and not get paid, and accumulate financial penalties week after week, for not playing, that works for me too. Then we refuse to negotiate any future contracts with him as well, because he has demonstrated that we can't rely on him to keep his end of the contracts we have with him at present.

    In that instance I vote we just trade him off to anyone that will have him, and clear his salary cap off our books, preferably to one of the teams located in one of coldest places in the country, and with a team that almost never plays Dallas, so that he can't embarrass and humiliate his fans, and teammates like he did with us immediately following our loss to them.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:55 pm
  • Walter Jones didn't join in on the optional stuff and didn't even show up for training camp until he had to. Frankly, I put Earl in about the same situation. Yes, it would be better for the position players around him if he was there but they get more work and have to practice for hopefully the worse case scenario. Once Earl shows up, if he is still here, he'll be great.

    Not worried.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:59 pm
  • pacific101 wrote:
    In that instance I vote we just trade him off to anyone that will have him, and clear his salary cap off our books, preferably to one of the teams located in one of coldest places in the country, and with a team that almost never plays Dallas, so that he can't embarrass and humiliate his fans, and teammates like he did with us immediately following our loss to them.



    Then your trade value in return is greatly diminished, because it'd be a team Earl wouldn't sign an extension with.

    Best case scenario is we find a trade partner that Earl is excited about signing an extension with, which in turn means his value goes way up because that team isn't just going to have him for one year and then he leaves.

    I get the hostility, because by Earl only wanting to go to Dallas, or only a handful of teams, it gives those teams more leverage because they know we're in an untenable situation.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:21 am
  • The key word is "voluntary" if the Seahawks want players to show up for the minicamp, then they should change it to "mandatory". Can't blame a veteran athlete who shows up ready to play when it's time to go for not showing up to a "voluntary" minicamp.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:41 am
  • vin.couve12 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote: I've never been Earl's biggest fan


    That much is obvious. Any reason why?

    No one big particular reason. Just another overrated first rounder that doesn't provide all together more value for the ROI than other safeties that can only play FS. He's played as a cover 3 safety most of his career, which is one of 3 deep players, and is one of the easier positions as a safety. The two most stressed positions in coverage in that defense is actually the MLB and SS/WLB, whichever is playing the short middle zone. Since you go so conservative with 3 deep instead of 2, you get dinked and dunked a lot because the deep side is pretty well closed off with 3 dedicated players. We do go cover 1 and get into some blitz packages, but being surrounded by such a high level of talent makes his job easier. Fans often think it's the other way around, but it isn't true. He's even excused of a lot of short comings, often simply by people refusing to believe what they see. The TE seam route is often his responsibility, for instance, and it's been a big problem for a long time. The short zone guys are only supposed to carry that so far and hand off the inside seem to the FS. Or when he can't barely jump 30 inches off the ground for a ball when he's 5'10...or how fans and announcers, who are paid to make gods of men BTW, say how he plays sideline to sideline in coverage and he literally almost never does because he's literally not supposed to per the scheme, etc, etc, etc.

    He's a very, very good player. One of many 1st rounders who's lived up to expectations, but that isn't saying a whole lot in terms of greatness. There's just a lot of lies and nonsense regarding a lot of 1st round picks and that's par the course and he's one of them. If you know schemes and what you're looking at, who's responsibility is what, and then listen to people's BS when you know damn well better, it's just old. He's a very good player, but once he's traded you'll start to see him get exposed more without all the talent around him. His main asset has been quickness and acceleration his entire career. His brains has been the SS since he was a rook. He can't jump, leaves his feet constantly and never stopped that even with experience, etc, etc, etc. A lot like the NBA dunker that gets the fans all riled up, but could be an actual better basketball player.

    If you wanted truly elite, scheme diverse players on the Hawks during the previous tenure, you're looking at Wagner, Kam, and Bennett, as much as people don't want to admit the latter. People began to hate Bennett, in particular, but you can put him in any defense and he would thrive. Wagner is the truly special player in this D though. He's the best overall LB I've seen since Seau. And no, Lewis and Willis don't compare. Neither was nearly as good at the POA. They were pretty boys by comparison. Wagner has the overall skillset of a true great. Earl, not so much. That said, if he wants to play extortion games...well, that can be dealt with. He doesn't hold the cards he thinks he does.


    While I would agree with a lot of what you've said, I don't see how it changes Earl's value to the Hawks. Every once in a while, you get players who justify their worth with sheer hustle and clutch, and while it's not quantifiable or falsifiable in ice-cold numbers analysis, it's still there. Those plays of his have gotten us a number of unlikely wins over the years.

    You say quickness and acceleration have been his main asset. Yes, and? I'd ratchet up his sideline presence a few notches than you've given it credit for. I see him over there. Maybe he's breaking assignment to be over there, but he's there. The mere existence of his range discourages a lot of passes, meaning that much of his influence shows up in pass rush. (Coverage affects pass rush as well - forcing a QB to double-clutch means the pass rush has an extra second to get home. I'm a fan of bringing in lots of pass rush guys too, but it works both ways.)

    It's not surprising to me that other teams aren't willing to shell out a pair of first-rounders for Earl. Like you said, he probably won't be as impactful without the scheme and without the other talent around him. But that's been true of all our guys. Sherman won't be as good. Maxwell and Browner sure weren't. But that doesn't mean they weren't great here, so why should he be treated as if this is some other team? He's great here. Use him while you have him.

    As far as "compensation after he leaves", I swear, I have never seen more angst over the next Kris Durham in my life. A fourth-round comp pick isn't a huge amount to wring one's hands over, and unlike certain fans, the Seahawks are not clutching their pearls nearly as hard over ComegetmeGate. They're not going to take a crummy trade deal now just to soothe their own injured pride. Put him on the field in 2018, let him play out his deal, watch him walk to Dallas on his own in 2019. What do we get in return? A better defense in 2018. That's nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:39 pm
  • [quote="pacific101"]One consideration that was presented by a 12 this morning, on a podcast, speculated that Earl's absence from this voluntary workouts and his absence from the Seahawks facilities entirely, was very likely because the home office and not Earl, had opted to ban Earl from any and all team related activities, or access to any of their properties.

    If they are, in fact, still entertaining any ideas about trading Earl away before the draft, they would want to make damn sure that he doesn't do anything to injure himself, because that would prevent him from passing a physical and that would effectively kill any current negotiations that might be in the works.

    There apparently is a clause In the players contracts, that provide, that in the event a player were to get injured, while engaged in any activities on Seahawks premises, that the Seahawks, would be legally liable and obligated, to pay that player whatever they were due according to the terms of their contracts. Meaning that Earl could hold out all season without penalty or recourse by Seattle and get paid too.

    If this truly the beginnings of his hold out, and he does persist in this, I vote that we do whatever we can to give him his way, and hope that any team out there, will give us a 1st round pick and anything else for him. I think it would go without saying, if this is the case, that Earl has exposed his true colors in all of this, and I believe we are better team without him on it.

    If he want's to set on the sidelines all season and not get paid, and accumulate financial penalties week after week, for not playing, that works for me too. Then we refuse to negotiate any future contracts with him as well, because he has demonstrated that we can't rely on him to keep his end of the contracts we have with him at present.

    In that instance I vote we just trade him off to anyone that will have him, and clear his salary cap off our books, preferably to one of the teams located in one of coldest places in the country, and with a team that almost never plays Dallas, so that he can't embarrass and humiliate his fans, and teammates like he did with us immediately following our loss to them.[/quote]Am I reading this right?We BEAT the Cowpokes pretty good.
    I loved that part but the Earl part turned me off
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:22 pm
  • There are two reasons Earl is not there. First, it was addressed above, if he is traded there can't be any chance that he gets hurt prior to the draft or his trade value goes way down. Second, and the one I believe is more feasible which also goes along with the first is that Earl wants to sign a long term deal after the draft. He and Aaron Donald are both no shows, both in the last year of their contract and both don't want to get hurt before they ink a new deal. Makes perfect sense and has nothing to do with protest, being mad, or any of that. It's being smart when you need to be smart.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:44 pm
  • Schadie001 wrote:There are two reasons Earl is not there. First, it was addressed above, if he is traded there can't be any chance that he gets hurt prior to the draft or his trade value goes way down. Second, and the one I believe is more feasible which also goes along with the first is that Earl wants to sign a long term deal after the draft. He and Aaron Donald are both no shows, both in the last year of their contract and both don't want to get hurt before they ink a new deal. Makes perfect sense and has nothing to do with protest, being mad, or any of that. It's being smart when you need to be smart.


    Well it has a little to do with being mad, just like Donald Earl is punishing his team by not being present for workouts to show the FO that he is indeed not happy with not getting his extension.

    But he's already said he wouldn't hold out and will be here when it matters, so I honestly don't care if Earl isn't here for voluntary camps. Dude prepares and trains like a champ, he's the last guy I'd worry about not coming into camp in shape and ready to roll.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:43 pm
  • I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:52 pm
  • NFSeahawks628 wrote:I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.


    To say that "No one is buying into Pete's mantra" is quite a bit of hyperbole don't you think? Obviously some have stopped buying in and they seem to be gone now. That is a far cry from No One buying in
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Re: Earl a no show.....
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:06 pm
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