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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm like Belichick, I coach, you shut your mouth and play, and if you don't you're gone. It's as simple as that. No one is ever bigger than the team, you never question the coach.


    Unless you are Tom Brady... or Randy Moss... or Gronk...



    Dont remember these guys doing that...

    I think you can/should feel comfortable questioning the staff, especially if you are the talent that Sherman is.

    My issue was the manner he did and now how he's leaving doing the same thing. Makes me think what he did here as a "leader" was not for the team but was for him
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm like Belichick, I coach, you shut your mouth and play, and if you don't you're gone. It's as simple as that. No one is ever bigger than the team, you never question the coach.


    Unless you are Tom Brady... or Randy Moss... or Gronk...


    yeah. let's be honest, if Gronk does or says something dumb, he's not getting benched or cut. The Pats generally don't have as talented players as we do, so they can cut bait more easily. If DMac had an incident, he's not getting benched either.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Dont remember these guys doing that...


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  • Quite a bit different than arguing with the defensive coach, no? or holding a press conference to question BB?

    Im just trying to understand your point.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Quite a bit different than arguing with the defensive coach, no? or holding a press conference to question BB?

    Im just trying to understand your point.


    Not only that, it didn't exactly take the entire team jumping up and down surrounding him plus another week to bring him back to planet earth. A few words with YOUR OWN position coach now and then is SOP.

    Pete himself said "this was different, this time he just would not reset" about Sherman's tirade.
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  • how is it different? I'm trying to understand your point.

    Brady is publicly arguing with a coach on the sidelines, in a manner that is pretty much the same as Sherman publicly arguing with a coach on the sidelines.

    My point is that the pats have players who argue with coaches and don't just "shut their mouth and play" and they weren't ejected from the team. Just like Pete, Belichick puts up with players being vocal, players questioning coaches, players saying stupid/controversial things, players known to have outspoken personalities, players publicly appearing disrespectful to coaches, etc.
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  • A-Dog wrote:how is it different? I'm trying to understand your point.

    Brady is publicly arguing with a coach on the sidelines, in a manner that is pretty much the same as Sherman publicly arguing with a coach on the sidelines.

    My point is that the pats have players who argue with coaches and don't just "shut their mouth and play" and they weren't ejected from the team. Just like Pete, Belichick puts up with players being vocal, players questioning coaches, players saying stupid/controversial things, players known to have outspoken personalities, players publicly appearing disrespectful to coaches, etc.


    Because going after Bevell is not even his own coach and should be none of his business!
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  • A-Dog wrote:how is it different? I'm trying to understand your point.

    Brady is publicly arguing with a coach on the sidelines, in a manner that is pretty much the same as Sherman publicly arguing with a coach on the sidelines.

    My point is that the pats have players who argue with coaches and don't just "shut their mouth and play" and they weren't ejected from the team. Just like Pete, Belichick puts up with players being vocal, players questioning coaches, players saying stupid/controversial things, players known to have outspoken personalities, players publicly appearing disrespectful to coaches, etc.


    I said in a previous post that I appreciated Sherman's willingness to stand up for the team. The issue is how he handled himself in the process. Calling out Bevell was divisive, just as Wilson calling out the D would've been.

    I dont see anyone wishing Sherman had just "shut up and played"
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  • Okay, so getting up in a coaches face on the sidelines, screaming at him, and being openly disrespectful and insubordinate is perfectly okay and acceptable as long as it's a coach on your side of the ball and not the other. That does not fall under the "shut your mouth and play" and "don't question coaches" rules that Sherman violated. Gotcha.

    Yeah, Belichick does not put up with any lip from the players, you speak up on his team and you're GONE. :roll:
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  • Uncle Si wrote:I dont see anyone wishing Sherman had just "shut up and played"


    Did you miss Sgt. Largent's post that I quoted that you responded to that started this whole digression?
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  • Sherman's a 30 year old corner coming off a major injury.

    People like to make a lot more out of this than there really is.

    If Brady tore up his throwing shoulder last year, Jimmy G would still be in NE and there would be all sorts of questions about coaching and coaching staff in NE too regardless of whether it was warranted or not. That's just irrational fans.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:I dont see anyone wishing Sherman had just "shut up and played"


    Did you miss Sgt. Largent's post that I quoted that you responded to that started this whole digression?



    I see that now..

    I was just replying to you, not him. I would disagree with his sentiment about what expect of players.

    Ive said in other threads.. i backed Sherman in those instances. But to hear him continue the complaints as he leaves makes me wonder if he was really supporting the team or just liked the sound of his own voice.
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  • Well if we were a Soccer team the owner just brings a gun on the field or the fans riot in the stands, god forbid a player on the team say something that was true even if it did cause some heartburn.

    I guess all we can say is GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm like Belichick, I coach, you shut your mouth and play, and if you don't you're gone. It's as simple as that. No one is ever bigger than the team, you never question the coach.


    Unless you are Tom Brady... or Randy Moss... or Gronk...


    yeah. let's be honest, if Gronk does or says something dumb, he's not getting benched or cut. The Pats generally don't have as talented players as we do, so they can cut bait more easily. If DMac had an incident, he's not getting benched either.


    When did any of these guys publicly criticize their coaches or teammates?

    Maybe a couple outbursts on the field, but never in the press. There's a reason NE players are the most boring players in the history of professional sports in their pressers...............you think that's by accident that they never say anything negative about anyone or anything?

    No, that's a direct order from their coach and owner. Respect your team, respect your coach, respect your opponent.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Well if we were a Soccer team the owner just brings a gun on the field or the fans riot in the stands, god forbid a player on the team say something that was true even if it did cause some heartburn.

    I guess all we can say is GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL.


    Not sure where this came from besides left field, but it sure sounds like you could use a better grip to me.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Well if we were a Soccer team the owner just brings a gun on the field or the fans riot in the stands, god forbid a player on the team say something that was true even if it did cause some heartburn.

    I guess all we can say is GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL.


    Really struggling to stay on topic..

    I suppose when you're out of ideas..

    But, if you want to have a go.. then do it. Don't try and be cryptic. I blew off the first one. I'll give you this one and another.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Well if we were a Soccer team the owner just brings a gun on the field or the fans riot in the stands, god forbid a player on the team say something that was true even if it did cause some heartburn.

    I guess all we can say is GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL.


    Not sure where this came from besides left field, but it sure sounds like you could use a better grip to me.



    its bait... just not very good bait
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm like Belichick, I coach, you shut your mouth and play, and if you don't you're gone. It's as simple as that. No one is ever bigger than the team, you never question the coach.


    Unless you are Tom Brady... or Randy Moss... or Gronk...


    yeah. let's be honest, if Gronk does or says something dumb, he's not getting benched or cut. The Pats generally don't have as talented players as we do, so they can cut bait more easily. If DMac had an incident, he's not getting benched either.


    When did any of these guys publicly criticize their coaches or teammates?

    Maybe a couple outbursts on the field, but never in the press. There's a reason NE players are the most boring players in the history of professional sports in their pressers...............you think that's by accident that they never say anything negative about anyone or anything?

    No, that's a direct order from their coach and owner. Respect your team, respect your coach, respect your opponent.


    Okay, so the rules are that you can publicly have a meltdown at your coach and do/say whatever you want, as long as it's a coach on your side of the ball AND as long as it's on the sidelines and not in the press. These rules are very specific.

    I suppose next someone is going to explain why Gronk's dirty hit was okay and acceptable, but Suh's aren't.
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  • It's football, would love to see the game get back to them not being covered in bubble wrap.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Okay, so the rules are that you can publicly have a meltdown at your coach and do/say whatever the F you want, as long as it's a coach on your side of the ball AND as long as it's on the sidelines and not in the press. These rules are very specific. .


    If you can't understand the difference between yelling at your teammates in the heat of the moment on the field, and publicly undermining and criticizing your HC and coordinators and organization for personnel moves?

    Then lets end the discussion.

    As in any business, there's a hierarchy and chain of command, and you don't undermine or criticize that, or you're fired. Sherman thought he was above that, cause of course he knows better. Then quit playing and coach Sherm, other than that? Put on your pads and go play and leave the coaching to the coaches, because negative comments and criticism doesn't help ANYTHING.

    In fact, it's a detriment to the team, as evident by the last two years of nonsense and dysfunction.
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  • But people still gave Sherm shit for yelling at Kris in that Falcons game... Let's be real here as well, as much as he should have swallowed his tongue to protect the team, it makes sense he was pissed at the offense. Look over at the poll I posted earlier, I'd hazard to say most fans believe the offensive playcalling and OL were the main issues holding this team back.
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  • What about when Brady criticized the org for trading Deion Branch and when he criticized the org for letting Lawyer Milloy go?

    I can understand the differences you are pointing out, but I don't think the situations are nearly as different than you are painting them. I think there is a double standard at work here and that's what I'm trying to point out.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Well if we were a Soccer team the owner just brings a gun on the field or the fans riot in the stands, god forbid a player on the team say something that was true even if it did cause some heartburn.

    I guess all we can say is GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL.


    Really struggling to stay on topic..

    I suppose when you're out of ideas..

    But, if you want to have a go.. then do it. Don't try and be cryptic. I blew off the first one. I'll give you this one and another.


    Put it this way, people complain about Sherman and Bennett, but I see Soccer as way more out of line as far as public displays from the Commission, the fans and the owners as being corrupt and bad public opinion for their teams and sport. Yet nobody seems to think that's a problem when it comes to the media. Our fans and the media blows one players statements out of the water that were accurate but dismiss it because it was a public.

    Maybe it's because the NFL, or maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    It's just seems hypocritical to me.
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  • A-Dog wrote:What about when Brady criticized the org for trading Deion Branch and when he criticized the org for letting Lawyer Milloy go?

    I can understand the differences you are pointing out, but I don't think the situations are nearly as different than you are painting them. I think there is a double standard at work here and that's what I'm trying to point out.


    I mean, Peyton Manning got crucified for rightfully saying the team had "protection issues" so it's all over the place. IMO there's no sense in caring what players say unless it's absolutely egregious and even then, it doesn't matter much.
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  • FWIW, I think the reason that fans, myself included, look past Sherman's tirades and outburst towards coaches is because it was cathartic as hell to have someone pulling the thread from within the organization on some of the issues we were seeing in real time.

    We can chase our tails about the right way of doing things but man, Sherman concentrated collective fan frustration into his voice.
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  • A-Dog wrote:What about when Brady criticized the org for trading Deion Branch and when he criticized the org for letting Lawyer Milloy go?

    I can understand the differences you are pointing out, but I don't think the situations are nearly as different than you are painting them. I think there is a double standard at work here and that's what I'm trying to point out.


    There's no double standard, maybe with some fans, but not me.

    if Brady's critical, it's in a calm well thought out and respectful way, then he's done. He doesn't threaten reporters, get into Twitter fights with media and fans, or publicly criticize his coaches SB playcalling decisions.

    One is being a professional, and one is being selfish petulant child.

    And if you're defending Sherman, or any athlete for doing this? Then what's the end game? He's not going to win, Pete's still here, he's gone.

    That's how it works.
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  • mrt144 wrote:FWIW, I think the reason that fans, myself included, look past Sherman's tirades and outburst towards coaches is because it was cathartic as hell to have someone pulling the thread from within the organization on some of the issues we were seeing in real time.

    We can chase our tails about the right way of doing things but man, Sherman concentrated collective fan frustration into his voice.


    Yet, many fans want players to "shut up and play." Some of us just want them to dance for us and be quiet and justify it by saying the players earn millions and that there are thousands who wish they could play in the league. I wonder if that's right. Doesn't feel like it to me, but I'm no ethics expert.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:This is the first post that I’ve had for awhile, as I’ve really wanted to sit back and evaluate the situation from afar … listen to all the analysis … and watch what actually happens. Now that the dominoes have started to really fall, it appears pretty clear from a big picture standpoint what’s happening.

    710 ESPN’s Brock and Salk have been right on the money IMO in their evaluations of this team, where they’re at, and what the Seahawks are doing. And that is --

    Whether or not you’re the Seahawks or the Patriots – the same exact thing is true. It doesn’t matter if you’re Pete Carroll (with the Pom Pom Pete Approach) … or Bill Belichick (with the My Way or the Highway Approach) – the brutal truth of the matter is regardless of the coaching approach, the message gets stale after awhile. After awhile, success is just not sustainable with the same group of players. Why? Human nature. After a time, people tend to tune out after they’ve heard the same message over and over again. That's why coaches and managers get fired so often.

    Complacency sets in eventually as well IMO. When players get paid, when they are fat and happy, there is a human nature tendency to sit back on your laurels a bit. Carroll and others have said it (in one form or another) many times – We want our players young, poor, and hungry.

    And as we all know as well, football is a young man’s game. This sport in particular will beat you up. Father Time is undefeated and football in particular will age you real quick. Carroll is always preaching about wanting guys who are young and flying around.

    All of that inevitably leads to what we’ve seen and the moves that have been made thus far. But it goes beyond that IMO. What I’m going to say below is probably going to be highly unpopular for many people … but I honestly do believe that this is another BIG REASON why you’ve seen certain veterans cut loose. I’ll focus my comments specifically on that by discussing Richard Sherman (the biggest example and the one that's most forefront right now).

    Let me say right up front that cutting Richard Sherman was the Bar None 100% Right Move for this Team Moving Forward …

    Now, I love Richard Sherman the player and who he was on the field for this Seahawks team. I love the talent. Richard Sherman in his prime – I love his ability to be a shutdown corner – a guy who absolutely can change a game single-handedly. I will always be grateful for him and what he did for this Seahawks team. I will forever remember “the Tip” with great giddiness and childlike glee. In a lot of ways, he does and will always have a special place in my heart. He was a fantastic player for us – one of the all time Seahawk greats … AND it was definitely time to part ways with him.

    Why?

    It’s not just about the money. That’s a given that the Seahawks needed to cut him given how much money he was slated to make. It’s also not just because of his age, his physical status, and his Achilles injury (although that’s a huge reason why, given his age, and contract status they needed to cut him loose). No, there was a much bigger and more important reason (beyond the money, beyond the age, and beyond his health status) of why this was the right move IMO.

    Coming into work this morning, I was listening Mike Salk on 710 ESPN going off on Richard Sherman, citing several incidences of him being “a liar” (in his words). He played several clips of past interviews – things that Sherman had said that were on record … that Sherman later said of that he was misquoted on or just flat out denied there was any evidence of him ever saying. [That’s known as Gaslighting by the way] He also played an audio clip of him telling Jim Moore that he was going to ruin his career.

    All of that just made me laugh because all of that IMO just so shows who Sherman truly is. I’m a therapist by trade, so I'll share with you guys my perspective from the clinician's chair. Though I’ve always loved Richard Sherman the elite player … I’ve also always recognized that there would eventually come a time that the Seahawks needed to cut bait.

    Over time it's become fairly clear that Richard Sherman … is a classic Narcissist. Textbook. Some of you out there who grew up with Narcissistic fathers or mothers know full well the pain of growing up with and dealing with these people. You guys will understand what I’m going to say. In a nutshell, these folks are some of the most difficult to treat and deal with bar none. Growing up in a Narcissistic home … can in a word be a nightmare. You see, as the name implies, Narcissists are all about only 1 person – themselves. They are ever only on 1 team … their own.

    Narcissists are quite often highly engaging people. They are often very smart, highly articulate, well spoken, charismatic, confident individuals. They make for great interviews. They can be great leaders (as long as people go along with them). That’s what draws people to them.

    However, there is a real serious downside to these kind of people. To say that they are self centered is a massive understatement. “It’s all about me” is the narcissistic person’s mantra. Image is everything. It’s about making the outside of my life look pretty … because on the inside, they feel there is a whole lot of “yuck.” When push comes to shove, Narcissists will choose themselves each and every time. It’s not about what’s best for the team or for others … it’s what best for me. If that’s all that personality type entailed, I’m sure many could overlook that. If you’ve ever lived or worked with a narcissist though … you will know full well just how divisive these people can be.

    Narcissists are best of the best manipulators out there that there are. Bar none. They are amazing in their ability to cause division and pit people against one another. Once you really grasp what they are doing … it can be quite stunning to behold.

    People have been talking about division in the locker room. There are clubhouse cancers (people have been saying). I would agree with you wholeheartedly and I fully believe Richard Sherman was one of those. You see, Full Blown Narcissists (as long as things are going THEIR WAY) … will be your best buddy. It’s when you’re the man in charge … and they start to disagree with you … that things will start to go awry. They are amazing in their ability to cause issues in a group. They are generally highly intelligent and manipulative to a stunning degree. They are really good at pitting people against one another and stirring up trouble.

    You can deal with (put up with this kind of a personality) as long as the positives of what they bring to the table … outweigh all of the other nonsense. What happens when that player is no longer elite though? What happens when they’re NOT the best anymore (but they think they are)? What happens when someone who prides themselves on being the best (believes they are the best, the most beautiful, the most perfect) suddenly starts to realize that fragile fake image they’ve spent their entire existence trying so hard to maintain is starting to melt away? Then, it’s Uh-oh time. You don’t want to be anywhere around that. Let me tell you from experience, there are few things in life less pleasant than an aging Narcissist. That’s when they can start to get real nasty and vindictive. That’s when they become that unbearable cancer that you just can’t deal with anymore. Whether you’re talking Richard Sherman … Terrell Owens … or Deion Sanders … there comes a time when it’s just time to say goodbye.

    And If threatened or hurt ... Narcissists will look punish those around them. If you disrespect them or harm them in any way, then Narcissists will tend to lash out. They will look to humiliate you, embarrass you, piss you off, etc. – to make themselves feel good. Why is it (of all teams out there) that Sherman decided to go the 49ers? Why them? The Seahawks most hated division rival, no less. Make no mistake about it folks. That move by Sherman I would say is exactly the kind of vengeance move that a Narcissist would make.

    All of that is precisely why this team was in desperate need of cutting bait of guys like this. You can put up with prima donnas as long as they can continue to bring the house down … but when their vocals start to go, it’s time to drop the curtain.

    Time for the next act folks – bring on the next generation of younger, cheaper, and highly driven players. The Patriots have gone through this same re-boot process time and time again. As painful as it is to watch for us, I would say that we’re just seeing the normal life cycle of the NFL. I have no idea exactly what to expect from this team (Wins and Losses wise this upcoming year) … but I’m convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is what had to happen.


    Michael Jordan is a narcissist but that doesn't take away from the championships he won and how people regard him as the greatest. Kobe Bryant is a narcissist. Most great athletes have a huge ego and a pretty narcissistic. Hell even Lebron is pretty narcissistic. I for one will always respect Sherman and I never had a problem with anything he did. I am glad he called out our stupid coaching staff for making dumb decisions and putting out a really crappy offensive efforts.
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  • chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Like how good they are, if they are injured, or how much salary they make and age?
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:if Brady's critical, it's in a calm well thought out and respectful way, then he's done... One is being a professional, and one is being selfish petulant child.


    But you are completely dismissing Brady's very public, very disrespectful, very unprofessional, very petulant, very NOT CALM sideline outburst, for the very arbitrary reason that it happened "on the field." Maybe it wasn't directly to the press, but the press certainly picked it up and ran with it.

    This is called a DOUBLE STANDARD.

    I am not defending Sherman's actions at all, and I am tending to agree with the OP that Sherman displays the characteristics of a classic narcissist (I dated one, they are monsters). However, somebody posted that Belichick doesn't put up with players that are outspoken or question their authority, and that's a load of crap.
    Last edited by A-Dog on Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Like how good they are, if they are injured, or how much salary they make and age?


    I was completely in favor of cutting Sherman, for the reasons mentioned, that's not what I'm talking about here.
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  • Gronk is also outspoken, just not about the Patriots until lately with his retirement threat.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Has nothing to do with race.

    Sherman decided after the SB loss that he was no longer buying into the program and Pete's "Kumbaya" positive approach to everyone sacrificing for the betterment of the team.

    He chose instead to publicly criticize his coordinators and teammates, and even the local press for daring to question his sudden change of attitude.

    Then he had the misfortune of getting hurt, and that made him expendable. Because that's what happens when you're a pain in the ass, you're personality is only going to be tolerated until you stop playing well.

    The End.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:if Brady's critical, it's in a calm well thought out and respectful way, then he's done... One is being a professional, and one is being selfish petulant child.


    But you are completely dismissing Brady's very public, very disrespectful, very unprofessional, very petulant sideline, very NOT CALM sideline outburst, for the very arbitrary reason that it happened "on the field." Maybe it wasn't directly to the press, but the press certainly picked it up and ran with it.

    This is called a DOUBLE STANDARD.

    I am not defending Sherman's actions at all, and I am tending to agree with the OP that Sherman displays the characteristics of a classic narcissist (I dated one, they are monsters). However, somebody posted that Belichick doesn't put up with players that are outspoken or question their authority, and that's a load of crap.


    Loooool the "Brady gets mad and it's okay but Sherman gets mad and it's out of line (or worse, some will call him a thug)" is practically a meme. Kinda funny to see someone defend that line of thinking. Brady is "calm, well thought out, respectful" hahaha. Did you see him yell at BoB? I don't have a problem with either, not remotely. Don't see how justifying one and decrying another is fair based on how they acted in the moment.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Has nothing to do with race.

    Sherman decided after the SB loss that he was no longer buying into the program and Pete's "Kumbaya" positive approach to everyone sacrificing for the betterment of the team.

    He chose instead to publicly criticize his coordinators and teammates, and even the local press for daring to question his sudden change of attitude.

    Then he had the misfortune of getting hurt, and that made him expendable. Because that's what happens when you're a pain in the ass, you're personality is only going to be tolerated until you stop playing well.

    The End.


    How about this: Sherman was making $13M a year, he'll be 30 years old, and he just tore his Achilles. Therefore the team decided to cut him.

    The End.


    It's not the Seahawks decision that I am questioning, it's the narrative that some fans are pushing about why the decision was made (and the Bennett decision, and the looming Richardson decision) that I think is pretty ridiculous.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:FWIW, I think the reason that fans, myself included, look past Sherman's tirades and outburst towards coaches is because it was cathartic as hell to have someone pulling the thread from within the organization on some of the issues we were seeing in real time.

    We can chase our tails about the right way of doing things but man, Sherman concentrated collective fan frustration into his voice.


    Yet, many fans want players to "shut up and play." Some of us just want them to dance for us and be quiet and justify it by saying the players earn millions and that there are thousands who wish they could play in the league. I wonder if that's right. Doesn't feel like it to me, but I'm no ethics expert.


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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Has nothing to do with race.

    Sherman decided after the SB loss that he was no longer buying into the program and Pete's "Kumbaya" positive approach to everyone sacrificing for the betterment of the team.

    He chose instead to publicly criticize his coordinators and teammates, and even the local press for daring to question his sudden change of attitude.

    Then he had the misfortune of getting hurt, and that made him expendable. Because that's what happens when you're a pain in the ass, you're personality is only going to be tolerated until you stop playing well.

    The End.


    How about this: Sherman was making $13M a year, he'll be 30 years old, and he just tore his Achilles. Therefore the team decided to cut him.

    The End.


    It's not the Seahawks decision that I am questioning, it's the narrative that some fans are pushing about why the decision was made (and the Bennett decision, and the looming Richardson decision) that I think is pretty ridiculous.


    Sure, I never said the primary reason Sherman's gone was because he was a pain in the ass.

    Of course his injury and massive contract were the main reason. But if he wasn't being divisive at every turn? I betcha we try a little harder to work something out...........or we match the Niners offer.
    Last edited by Sgt. Largent on Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Has nothing to do with race.

    Sherman decided after the SB loss that he was no longer buying into the program and Pete's "Kumbaya" positive approach to everyone sacrificing for the betterment of the team.

    He chose instead to publicly criticize his coordinators and teammates, and even the local press for daring to question his sudden change of attitude.

    Then he had the misfortune of getting hurt, and that made him expendable. Because that's what happens when you're a pain in the ass, you're personality is only going to be tolerated until you stop playing well.

    The End.


    How about this: Sherman was making $13M a year, he'll be 30 years old, and he just tore his Achilles. Therefore the team decided to cut him.


    The End.


    It's not the Seahawks decision that I am questioning, it's the narrative that some fans are pushing about why the decision was made (and the Bennett decision, and the looming Richardson decision) that I think is pretty ridiculous.


    That is acceptable.....as long as one is willing to completely ignore the other problems and the fact the team publicly shopped him prior to last season before the injury even occurred.
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  • I get that Brady had the infamous argument on the sidelines with McDaniel and has been seen yelling at the O on the sidelines etc. But imo it's a bit of a reach saying that is the same as when Sherm had two situations in 2016 where he had to be physically restrained during sideline confrontations.

    It feels like with his personality it was a situation where it would all be good while things were going well around him, like the 2012-2014 stretch. But if anything happened big happened internally that was brutal for the organization, like the Super Bowl pass that seems to be the catalyst for a lot of this, that combined with Sherm's personality was going to make an eventual parting of the ways inevitable.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    How about this: Sherman was making $13M a year, he'll be 30 years old, and he just tore his Achilles. Therefore the team decided to cut him.


    The End.


    It's not the Seahawks decision that I am questioning, it's the narrative that some fans are pushing about why the decision was made (and the Bennett decision, and the looming Richardson decision) that I think is pretty ridiculous.


    That is acceptable.....as long as one is willing to completely ignore the other problems and the fact the team publicly shopped him prior to last season before the injury even occurred.


    How about the Seahawks knew they were unlikely to re-sign him to a big deal for his age 31 season, so they decided to explore possibilities for getting some kind of return on him before he became a free agent?

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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    How about this: Sherman was making $13M a year, he'll be 30 years old, and he just tore his Achilles. Therefore the team decided to cut him.


    The End.


    It's not the Seahawks decision that I am questioning, it's the narrative that some fans are pushing about why the decision was made (and the Bennett decision, and the looming Richardson decision) that I think is pretty ridiculous.


    That is acceptable.....as long as one is willing to completely ignore the other problems and the fact the team publicly shopped him prior to last season before the injury even occurred.


    How about the Seahawks knew they were unlikely to re-sign him to a big deal for his age 31 season, so they decided to explore possibilities for getting some kind of return on him before he became a free agent?

    I can play this game all day.


    But why wouldn't we be interested in resigning a top 5 corner still in his prime last year?

    My guess is we'll certainly be interested in extending Russell, Doug and Bobby. Wonder why not Richard? Such a mystery.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    How about this: Sherman was making $13M a year, he'll be 30 years old, and he just tore his Achilles. Therefore the team decided to cut him.


    The End.


    It's not the Seahawks decision that I am questioning, it's the narrative that some fans are pushing about why the decision was made (and the Bennett decision, and the looming Richardson decision) that I think is pretty ridiculous.


    That is acceptable.....as long as one is willing to completely ignore the other problems and the fact the team publicly shopped him prior to last season before the injury even occurred.


    How about the Seahawks knew they were unlikely to re-sign him to a big deal for his age 31 season, so they decided to explore possibilities for getting some kind of return on him before he became a free agent?

    I can play this game all day.


    But why wouldn't we be interested in resigning a top 5 corner still in his prime last year?

    My guess is we'll certainly be interested in extending Russell, Doug and Bobby. Wonder why not Richard? Such a mystery.

    You extend the season of their last year, not prior. If any of those 3 tear an achilles on a contract year or just prior, they'd be subject to the same...and yes, even RW. He's not exactly a pure pocket passer.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Like how good they are, if they are injured, or how much salary they make and age?


    Outside of one or two posts where do you see an”undercurrent?”

    I’m not upset with Sherman the Seahawk. It bothers me how he’s continued the narrative out the door.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Well if we were a Soccer team the owner just brings a gun on the field or the fans riot in the stands, god forbid a player on the team say something that was true even if it did cause some heartburn.

    I guess all we can say is GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL.


    Really struggling to stay on topic..

    I suppose when you're out of ideas..

    But, if you want to have a go.. then do it. Don't try and be cryptic. I blew off the first one. I'll give you this one and another.


    Put it this way, people complain about Sherman and Bennett, but I see Soccer as way more out of line as far as public displays from the Commission, the fans and the owners as being corrupt and bad public opinion for their teams and sport. Yet nobody seems to think that's a problem when it comes to the media. Our fans and the media blows one players statements out of the water that were accurate but dismiss it because it was a public.

    Maybe it's because the NFL, or maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    It's just seems hypocritical to me.


    Well.. that’s not far off. European soccer fans tolerate a lot of corruption and inflation while perpetrating their own transgressions. I think some of it is the game has grown far past the local club mentality financially but the fans are still the same hard nosed blue collars who have had tickets in their family for decades. It’s a strange relationship.

    But a conversation for a different time (and forum)

    I’m not burning my Sherman jersey (only Hawks jersey I own). Just not liking how he’s left
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:maybe because Americans have their underwear bunched too tight.

    There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Like how good they are, if they are injured, or how much salary they make and age?


    Outside of one or two posts where do you see an”undercurrent?”


    It's not *just* this thread

    But it's all around this forum, fanbase, league, nation and world. Just look at the recent video posted by Mike Tyson and Justin Coleman.

    If you don't think politics (and in this day and age, that includes race) don't permeate this board, you're not paying attention.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    I think he had to go public because nothing was being done. Look back now, and he was right. The necessary changes of getting rid of Bevell and Cable finally happened albeit years later than it should have.


    BS. Being right means never throwing from the 1 again, that was the main pet peeve of Sherman that came out.

    He is and was wrong about that, and it is a completely ridiculous request (and especially so with our crap magic run game) And yes...I too hated that play call, but so what? :roll:


    I get you, but Sherman was bitter about more things than just 'The Play'. In his defense though, the team has tried to run that same slant play a few more times since then and still had the same disastrous results. :D


    That is no defense. There has NOT been another game lost from a pass getting picked at the one (ie...same disastrous results)

    Where do you come up with that?


    I didn't mean disastrous in the terms of the outcome of the game (come on, it was the worst play in football history in the biggest game ever), but more so on the outcome of that particular play itself. Seattle tried the same slant against the Redskins for a 2-point conversion last year and it was picked and almost ran back. They tried it against somebody else too and I believe it was also intercepted, but I cant remember and don't have any proof of that right now. I was just making light of the slant.
    Last edited by pittpnthrs on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • A-Dog wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    A-Dog wrote:There is a socio-political undercurrent at work here and I find it a bit disturbing.

    Some fans really seem to want the players to stay in line, keep their mouths shut, and bow to authority (owner/GM/coaches). Players that get too uppity should be ostracized and removed. However, this can be applied selectively, as some players are granted immunity from this based on certain criteria.


    Like how good they are, if they are injured, or how much salary they make and age?


    Outside of one or two posts where do you see an”undercurrent?”


    It's not *just* this thread

    But it's all around this forum, fanbase, league, nation and world. Just look at the recent video posted by Mike Tyson and Justin Coleman.

    If you don't think politics (and in this day and age, that includes race) don't permeate this board, you're not paying attention.



    Right.. not paying attention. I do appreciate the condescending reminder about our nations issues

    We do a pretty decent job off niping that talk on this board. And since we are discussing our own beliefs on the matter I’ll take a pass getting wrangled into this type of discussion with you

    You want to have a deeper discussion please take it to the proper forum.
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  • As I've said many times, there is a large piece of me that likes Richard Sherman quite a lot. Richard Sherman the elite level shutdown CB is an AWESOME, amazing asset. It's just all the other baggage that eventually just gets too cumbersome to carry after awhile.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Right.. not paying attention. I do appreciate the condescending reminder about our nations issues

    We do a pretty decent job off niping that talk on this board. And since we are discussing our own beliefs on the matter I’ll take a pass getting wrangled into this type of discussion with you

    You want to have a deeper discussion please take it to the proper forum.

    Happy to take it to a different forum, I am just responding to people who address me, and you asked a direct question. I certainly am NOT trying to wrangle anyone. I'm sorry if you felt condescended to, but you expressed surprise at my post so I felt a reminder maybe was in order. I will drop it now - if anyone wants to respond further on this particular topic please do so in the shack.
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