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What is/was holding this team back the most?

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What is/was holding this team back the most?

Aging Defense
3
4%
Lack of Cap Space/Draft Picks
6
7%
Offensive Line
32
39%
Xs and Os Coaching/Playcalling
31
38%
Lack of Overall Talent
3
4%
Russell Wilson's Contract :P
7
9%
 
Total votes : 82

  • Following the big changes that have just happened and the more that are likely to come, I wonder what everyone thinks held this team back from winning multiple SBs and what is holding it back now? I'm stuck between the offensive line and the offensive playcalling, but went with the offensive line. All the options seem fair, curious what people think.

    I apologize if this should be two separate questions, wasn't sure how to make that fit with the poll.
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  • Health. Which is a product of age. Which is being remedied.

    We're going to be fine.
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    JSeahawks
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  • Oline by a landslide. Even the year we won 48 we were dead last in pass pro. People wonder why Wilson is skiddish when the guy has been raised on epic fail level lines. :roll:
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  • Big picture- I'm going with FO personnel decisions- including drafting, FA acquisitions, trades, and extensions since 2013.
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  • Seymour wrote:Oline by a landslide. Even the year we won 48 we were dead last in pass pro. People wonder why Wilson is skiddish when the guy has been raised on epic fail level lines. :roll:


    So true. If we could get and develop talent on the OL like we do DB's and LB's we would probably have at least 4 SBs in the PC era.
    Last edited by seahawkfreak on Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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    seahawkfreak
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  • I voted Xs and Os/coaching. You can coach around a bad oline. You can use quick reads, screens, your TE. Our offense, to be successful with our OC, had to have arguably the most punishing running back and the most elusive QB in the NFL.

    When we lost Lynch, we were very inconsistent minus the unreal stretch between Baldwin and Wilson and a nice 8 game run by Rawls. Never did our offensive coaching staff game plan for upcoming opponents and exploit weaknesses. They were simply content with ramrodding the same plays over and over regardless whether they were successful or not.

    Keeping our receiving TE in to block almost every play, running constant empty sets on third and short, throwing bombs on every other 3rd and less than 10, stifled any progress the offense could have made.

    Russell Wilson did what he could with piss poor game plans and ran all over the place to try to make things happen and at times did a masterful job. Sometimes those broken plays would turn into wins.

    I honestly believe with almost any other OC and line coach combination, we would have had at least 2 superbowl wins and possibly 3 prior to our team being dismantled due to salary cap, injury, etc.
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    bevellisthedevil
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  • The play...downward spiral since then. It will be subject of a 30 for 30 at some point. The play changed everything.
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  • I don't really like these options. What is holding the team back is what holds every team back, average to poor talent evaluation in the draft. I guess the talent option could be it but I don't think it completely is. Pete talks about making use of unique talents but I'm not sure he adjusts the scheme for the weakness of what they have on the field. Just like you need to maximize opportunities, you need to minimize the risks to make sure you are successful. The picks they have used have not really panned out or they failed to make use of them so I put this on the front office for the most part.

    I knew the rebuilding was going to happen this year when we gave away so much for Richardson and Brown. That was a last gasp to make a run and it was derailed by injuries. It happens, just sucks that so much had to change as a result.

    I would state that the draft talent evaluation is the biggest thing holding the team back.
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  • bevellisthedevil wrote:I voted Xs and Os/coaching. You can coach around a bad oline. You can use quick reads, screens, your TE. Our offense, to be successful with our OC, had to have arguably the most punishing running back and the most elusive QB in the NFL.

    When we lost Lynch, we were very inconsistent minus the unreal stretch between Baldwin and Wilson and a nice 8 game run by Rawls. Never did our offensive coaching staff game plan for upcoming opponents and exploit weaknesses. They were simply content with ramrodding the same plays over and over regardless whether they were successful or not.

    Keeping our receiving TE in to block almost every play, running constant empty sets on third and short, throwing bombs on every other 3rd and less than 10, stifled any progress the offense could have made.

    Russell Wilson did what he could with piss poor game plans and ran all over the place to try to make things happen and at times did a masterful job. Sometimes those broken plays would turn into wins.

    I honestly believe with almost any other OC and line coach combination, we would have had at least 2 superbowl wins and possibly 3 prior to our team being dismantled due to salary cap, injury, etc.


    Very good points.
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  • We stopped evolving and being creative, the NFL is a copy cat league as you all know, they adapted to us and we stayed constant, Pete's stubbornness about the offense and not holding Cable and Bevell accountable lost the teams belief in accountability and his message, at least those there that day.

    Then we started getting cute with our picks and signings rather then drafting proven commodities.

    To get his system back on track he has to jettison the players that doubt him now and cost a lot.
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  • Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.

    If that is the case the players are the problem!!
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  • The head coach. Carroll expects players to conform to his tired philosophy instead of adapting to their strengths. There is the loyalty to a fault issue also that caused us to keep horrible coordinators way past the point in which they should have been released. One of them should have been gone immediately after the play to set an example. And then of course there's the total lack of discipline. You cannot have a healthy organization when the inmates run the asylum.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:The head coach. Carroll expects players to conform to his tired philosophy instead of adapting to their strengths. There is the loyalty to a fault issue also that caused us to keep horrible coordinators way past the point in which they should have been released. One of them should have been gone immediately after the play to set an example. And then of course there's the total lack of discipline. You cannot have a healthy organization when the inmates run the asylum.


    In also vote for Carroll. He is the most overrated coach (we won despite him). I also think the “cutesy” mentality of the FO dismantled this potential dynasty.
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  • The obvious answer is the OL but injuries to the running backs and D played a massive role in the Seahawks downfall.

    With that said I’m not sold on all the doom and gloom.
    Last edited by pugs1 on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Health, OL, Blair Walsh, way too many stupid penalties like offsides and personal fouls, Off field distractions like protesting (whether you agreed with it or not, yes they were still distractions) and a few players on the team no longer with us who couldn’t let SB 49 go.

    Reasons why the Seahawks miraculously won 9 games last year: Russell Wilson
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  • The last five draft classes.
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    hawknation2018
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  • sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.


    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.


    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.


    So dumb. :34853_doh:
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  • hawkman wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.


    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.



    Ughhhh
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  • I think the offensive line and health issues.

    The OL goes without saying but the injury thing is downplayed by negative minded people, and the simple fact is, when you invest so heavily into Pro Bowl worthy players like Sherman, Chancellor, Avril, Bennett, Thomas and they have considerable amounts of time out, it's going to have an affect. They're irreplacable and then you had lesser players like Shead, Carson and others spending time off the field, how can they be replaced? All teams have injury concerns and sometimes you can get unlucky and it affects your best talent, like it did with the Seahawks, and then it's bound to cost you a couple of wins here and there. A fully fit Sherman or Chancellor are game changers and they're the difference between a 25-22 loss and a 18-22 point win, and that mounts up over the course of a season.

    The Seahawks have many problems and things to iron out but had the injury problem not been so severe last year, it would unquestionably have been at least another playoff appearance and that puts into perspective how bad the problems are. If everything stays the same next year but we have fewer injuries and can improve the OLine, it will obviously be the playoffs as a minimum which isn't a bad place to be at.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.


    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.


    So dumb. :34853_doh:


    Oh really. You saying it was a good pass? Take off the glasses, reality is a great place.

    Surly not a dumb as blaming a coach for what most in the industry felt was a good call under the circumstances.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.


    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.


    So dumb. :34853_doh:


    Oh really. You saying it was a good pass? Take off the glasses, reality is a great place.

    Surly not a dumb as blaming a coach for what most in the industry felt was a good call under the circumstances.


    This is what Wilson saw when he threw the pass (as demanded by the idiotic play call):
    Image

    The pass itself would have hit Lockette in the hands.
    Image

    The last thing that was wrong with "the play" was Russell Wilson. You don't let England sucker you into throwing a quick pass to stop the clock, when New England had one of the worst goal line defenses and power rush defenses in the NFL (and the Seahawks had the best, behind Marshawn Lynch). And you certainly don't ask a WR as inexperienced and inconsistent as Ricardo Lockette to make that play.

    Thankfully, Darrell "The Idiot" Bevell has finally been terminated, just like he was terminated by the Vikings. The fact that six teams have passed him up for OC roles is quite telling.
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  • keeping bevell and cable far too long and wasting the draft picks in that time frame trying to turn rocks into diamonds
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.


    So dumb. :34853_doh:


    Oh really. You saying it was a good pass? Take off the glasses, reality is a great place.

    Surly not a dumb as blaming a coach for what most in the industry felt was a good call under the circumstances.


    This is what Wilson saw when he threw the pass (as demanded by the idiotic play call):
    Image

    The pass itself would have hit Lockette in the hands.
    Image

    The last thing that was wrong with "the play" was Russell Wilson. You don't let England sucker you into throwing a quick pass to stop the clock, when New England had one of the worst goal line defenses and power rush defenses in the NFL (and the Seahawks had the best, behind Marshawn Lynch). And you certainly don't ask a WR as inexperienced and inconsistent as Ricardo Lockette to make that play.

    Thankfully, Darrell "The Idiot" Bevell has finally been terminated, just like he was terminated by the Vikings. The fact that six teams have passed him up for OC roles is quite telling.


    Anybody that has been around football at any level knows that throw needs to be low into the body in that situation. HORRIBLE pass.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:Superbowl 49. The team never got over it and did not trust the coaching staff after the play call.


    Or the team never trusted Wilson after that? The coaches didn’t throw the horrible pass.


    So dumb. :34853_doh:


    Oh really. You saying it was a good pass? Take off the glasses, reality is a great place.

    Surly not a dumb as blaming a coach for what most in the industry felt was a good call under the circumstances.


    How about you don’t blame anyone? **** happens some times. Get over it and on to the next one. I seem to remember Tom Brady torching the LOB that game as well and I don’t see Russell crying about it.

    Or how about after the NFCDG against Atlanta in 2012. The defense **** the bed after Wilson dominated that game as a rookie. Instead of crying to the media, Russell had a smile on his face and said he couldnt wait for next year, which the rest is history.

    Sorry your role model is a cry baby and not better than Russell Wilson.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    Anybody that has been around football at any level knows that throw needs to be low into the body in that situation. HORRIBLE pass.


    Which is why your hero Darrell Bevell ("mastermind" you called him after he was terminated) blamed Ricardo Lockette for the interception: "[Lockette] could have done a better job staying strong on the ball."

    Nevermind the fact that Ricardo freaking Lockette never should have been put in that position in the first place. Bevell was predictably inept. And now he's toast! Bye, Felicia!

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  • I went with play calling, but the Jimmy Graham trade was the straw that broke our dominate run. Jimmy is a "me" first guy. This was a "team" first... "we all we got, we all we need" beast. Jimmy's impact on the run game was so negative that is was almost like we were playing 10 on 11.

    We all watched the games. Ask yourself, when did the run game die? ...when Jimmy joined the team. Go back to the historic run that Russell Wilson had in 2015 - that came after Jimmy was injured. We were 5 - 5 going into the game when he was injured and lost for the season. We went 5-1 the rest of the season. While he was here we tried to put a square peg into a round whole - we should have played him outside completely away from the line of scrimmage and away from the run game.
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  • Pack it in.

    The sniping is overbearing. Discuss the points in the thread without the sewing circle insults
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  • All of the above options contributed to last season's shortcomings, and the overhaul this offseason.

    If I was to blame one issue it would be "complacency" by the front office and coaching staff. They felt like keeping the same band together for six plus seasons was going to work forever, when in actuality teams were able to diagnose our team's weaknesses through personnel and scheme.

    The franchise, from the front office to coaches were too stubborn to adjust, and became stagnant while other teams passed them by.

    This offseason, we're finally taking a pit stop and retooling. They'll get this thing back on the track and have a new plan of attack going forward.
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  • I really wanted to answer coaching but to me both Graham and Harvin trades were interesting ideas that ultimately failed to yield anything close to their value. So I put lack of draft picks as the answer. An extra 2nd and 3rd for two years could have yielded some talent and positions of need that we're currently dealing with and possibly averted taking the most inefficient path to mediocrity in 2017.

    Bah, it's just so hard to choose one though.
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  • mrt144 wrote:I really wanted to answer coaching but to me both Graham and Harvin trades were interesting ideas that ultimately failed to yield anything close to their value. So I put lack of draft picks as the answer. An extra 2nd and 3rd for two years could have yielded some talent and positions of need that we're currently dealing with and possibly averted taking the most inefficient path to mediocrity in 2017.

    Bah, it's just so hard to choose one though.


    And now 10 minutes later about, I'm thinking, naw, it WAS the coaching that was passive and reactive instead of proactive. I get trying to draw down variance into a few key inflection points, I truly do, but I've seen mummies in egypt with more life in them.
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  • I don't think the players got over the SB loss. I think blowing the lead and the play call that led to a pick all snowballed.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:The last five draft classes.

    Yep, this and dumb decision making. From hanging onto underperforming offensive coaches WAY TOO LONG, to reaches/projects in the draft, to paying bad FA’s way too much (see any O-lineman, Lacy), to cutting one of your best players (when healthy) and he signs with a hated rival and you get zero in return. This FO needs to pull their heads out of their butts and quIck, because it’s not trending well for them.
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  • chris98251 wrote:We stopped evolving and being creative, the NFL is a copy cat league as you all know, they adapted to us and we stayed constant, Pete's stubbornness about the offense and not holding Cable and Bevell accountable lost the teams belief in accountability and his message, at least those there that day.

    Then we started getting cute with our picks and signings rather then drafting proven commodities.

    To get his system back on track he has to jettison the players that doubt him now and cost a lot.



    Jerhawk wrote:All of the above options contributed to last season's shortcomings, and the overhaul this offseason.

    If I was to blame one issue it would be "complacency" by the front office and coaching staff. They felt like keeping the same band together for six plus seasons was going to work forever, when in actuality teams were able to diagnose our team's weaknesses through personnel and scheme.

    The franchise, from the front office to coaches were too stubborn to adjust, and became stagnant while other teams passed them by.

    This offseason, we're finally taking a pit stop and retooling. They'll get this thing back on the track and have a new plan of attack going forward.

    Ding ding ding. I'm not as certain as Jer on the retooling being done right, but expecting to win the same way (with one adjustment that didn't really make sense) was the problem. Mixing in youth wasn't done right and they continued to value volume in drafting when all that did was basically draft for other teams.
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  • Everyone but Wilson’s contract should be an option. We are in hock because we have committed so much of our cap to players who are injured and can’t play to their contracted potential if at all. ... and of course the online / blocking scheme / lack of x/o skill by the staff.
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  • Steve2222 wrote:Health, OL, Blair Walsh, way too many stupid penalties like offsides and personal fouls, Off field distractions like protesting (whether you agreed with it or not, yes they were still distractions) and a few players on the team no longer with us who couldn’t let SB 49 go.

    Reasons why the Seahawks miraculously won 9 games last year: Russell Wilson


    I refuse to include Blair Walsh. If he is competent, then we are possibly in the playoffs and the status quo is likely maintained (i.e. Cable and Bevell). I say raise his jersey to the rafters. A shake up was needed.
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  • The top two reasons are well identified here by those of us who watch.

    PC was sold a bill of goods by Coach Fable and finally woke up to realize that even after adding Duane Brown the OLine still sucked couldn’t pass protect or run block and even after firing Coach Sherman Smith the “running game Coordinator” had coordinated only an absolutely epic fail. Coach Bevell should have been shown the door right after XLIX. Keeping him hurt the team and put Pete’s message out there as being a double standard with different rules for coaches than players.

    The players moved out look as well to be the guys who weren’t buying in to Pete’s message, although cap, age and injury limitations certainly were major factors. It clearly was time for a reset.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • OL cost us a ring, I'm certain of it. Defense should rightly be pissed but nothing we can do about it. If the OL magically improves under solari without much personnel change, I'm Def making a cable thread in the shack. I'll be happy and furious.
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