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Art Thiel ask if its Time to trade Russell

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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    We can finally discombobulate how much of this was due to Bevell and Cable falling into the abyss of their own beliefs on what works.


    Doubt it, first loss you'll see Fire Schottenheimer/Solari posts because they weren't the "right" coordinators.

    Maybe we'll see some subtle scheme and playcalling changes, but like I said even before Bevell and Cable were fired, this is Pete's team..............so doubt we'll even be able to notice a big scheme or playcalling difference.



    No doubt there will be impulsive "this sucks" posts but from my lifetime of playing games, its entirely possible that both lost sight of the details that made things flow instead of trickle. Sometimes you get in a funk where mistakes are compounded by mistakes made in an effort to correct.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:If you want to try and change the subject to shortcomings.of the defense and site RW's success, then keep that in perspective too.

    Hawks allowed the least points scored for years. RW didn't need to score as many points as other QBs for HIS success.

    Stupid redirects fail.


    Except that doesn't happen in a vacuum. What would have happened if say, Russell played for the Broncos? Would they have missed the playoffs?

    Winning football games is more than just conventional stats like yards and points allowed. What about converting third downs? What about killing another team's momentum with a long drive, or with a crucial touchdown? What about not turning the ball over? What about giving your offense a chance when the protection is suspect and the running game is non-existent

    No one is here to say Russell is perfect. He sometimes hesitates too often. He struggles a bit with interior pressure. He's bound to sail a throw or two during a game. To which, big whoop...may I introduce you to any elite QB ever

    Point is, winning football games is not algebra, it's Calculus. If Russell was a traditional pocket QB for example, the way defenses attack us would be different. Everything would be different. I can rarely recall a time in recent years when we needed a big play from Russell to switch the momentum or take the lead, and Russell delivered. Saying RW doesn't need to score as many points is silly because it implies Russell throws and rushes for far less TDs and Yards than other QBs. Which is inaccurate. He's always accounted for about 4000 yards and 25+ Tds a year. The only time he didn't was when he was badly injured
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  • I think it’s a little premature to even entertain the idea of trading RW3.

    If the dude falls off this next year or two, without the LOB to keep opposing scores low against us, then we can resurrect this thread in 2020.

    We have been playing complimentary football until 2017. Let’s see what Russ can really do now.
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  • Trade him for Kirk and a draft pick if it was an option.
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  • RussB wrote:Trade him for Kirk and a draft pick if it was an option.


    Cousins?

    :lol:
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  • RussB wrote:Trade him for Kirk and a draft pick if it was an option.



    Deez Nuttz is available...
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  • Trading Russell Wilson and signing another QB to big money(like Cousins) makes no sense. If your trading Russ it's for a ton of picks and cap space and then try to replicate 2013/14. Depth, great D, great line and run the ball.
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Many know that I've been more critical of RW than almost anyone here, but in the current climate even with a backup QB winning the SB, you keep RW because his contract is and will continue to be ever more outdated.

    RW is a very, very good QB/Point Guard. I don't think he should be payed at the top of the list even if some other lesser guys are making more, but an outdated contract fits. Let him play it out and if you see a diamond in the rough of a QB then draft him mid to late round and if he sits for a couple years then so be it. If RW can improve further as a pocket aware passer then maybe you pay and stay and so be it. The outcome should be all business and no message board sentiment will matter, including my own.

    BYAH!

    Fine with the playing contract out but looking at it with more vision..
    His trade value will never be higher before that contract ends because
    the closer you get the less you will get.
    Maybe he doesn't get any better or improve squat so keep paying?
    As above stated did we win the SB with an elite QB?
    I feel like I'm still waiting to see that.

    You SEEN it in the second half of 2015, you've just chosen to ignore it.
    He'd proved THEN, that he can be elite when he gets SOME HELP from his O-Line, EVEN WITHOUT having the likes of Marshawn Lynch to help keep Defenses on their heels.
    Oh and, it was the DEFENSE that gave up all those points put up by Cam Newton in the playoffs, and it was Russell Wilson that scored the Seahawks back within reach of winning that game in the second half.
    NO Quarterback is going to do it all by himself, not even LORD Brady.

    Easy big guy..
    I saw a half a season that doesn't make a career..
    That Carolina game in 2nd half?What happened in the first?Off the top of my head I see a pick 6
    and/or a RW fumble that led to another score by the Panthers.
    That 2nd half only makes that comeback stuff in above posts look more valid..
    The Carolina game(playoff loss) is not a good example to me.
    Of course he cannot do it all which is obvious but fanboys want it where
    there is an excuse for him and want to pay him whatever 30 plus million?
    No vision of winning anything or what it really takes to do it..
    Just plow 15% of the cap into a QB that will likely be in decline when he losses speed/leg injury
    That scares me..I'm not just content to see an average football team
    with a Matthew Stafford @the helm with no playoffs..
    I've already been there so I'm sorry for being greedy.

    If he'd have played like that for one or two games in a row, you'd maybe have some argument, BUT, 9?, > NINE < games in succession is a pretty damned good sample size, and it's goofy to suggest that it was anything other than superb.
    Feel free to keep downplaying RW's accomplishments if you wish, but that's not going to alter the FACT that he showed that he can be an ELITE passer.
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  • We never had a true franchise quarterback in Seattle and it is difficult to slam the best QB we ever had. With that said, I wouldn't be against it. I always thought Pete was holding Wilson back. However, after watching Wilson play the last two years, I realized he can't lead a team the way a Rogers, Brady, or Brees can by doing more with less. Paying him $30 million a year would be criminal and would destroy this team ability to compete.

    I agree Wilson is exciting and is a better player than most experts would have predicted. Bevell/Cable weren't great play callers and their departure was long over due. However, Wilson is not the same player since year three and he doesn't seem to be prepared as he once was. Without a decent running back, he needs far too much time to throw the ball. This makes it even more difficult with a poor offense line. His height is a factor and this will be a bigger problem as Wilson's athletic ability diminishes in next three years. Marshawn did so much to reduce the glaring weaknesses of Wilson's game and Wilson has not grown out of the free style, scramble mode quarterback. Many of his 4th quarter come backs were due to his poor play earlier in the game and you can't win that way long term.

    A move would hurt the team in the short term. However, if we keep him, we are stuck in the Buffalo Bills 8-8 purgatory.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:They are a 5 win team w/out him.
    I do enjoy a good podcast though. :2thumbs:


    that pretty much cuts through the BS.

    If you're a Russell detractor or critic, that's fine. But until we have a better replacement at the most vital position on the team, then all your points are moot.............and it's why we're going to continue to pay Russell through his next contract.

    because the alternative isn't tolerable.

    Thread winner right there ^^^ :2thumbs:
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:The idea of 30M for one player is seemingly insane. That's anywhere from 3 to 5 pro bowlers at varying other positions.


    It especially is for a QB that you're not really making the focal point of your offense.

    Which is why this is a debate on Russell. Not many people are debating that Russell's a great football player, and a great QB. But if Pete is doubling down on the pound the rock ball control run game, why would we pay our QB 25-30M a year sucking up that much cap space.

    Yes you pay guys like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, etc that kind of money because they are the focal points of their offenses.

    This is why our offense has been in this limbo ever since Russell got paid, it's been a tug of war between trying to make the offense work while paying the defense vs. wanting to run the ball when your QB is sucking up 50% of the cap space for the offense.

    On one spectrum this is what I have been saying but you put it in a better way
    I'm good with that and frankly I get tired of trying to point out that 30 plus million
    on his next contract is insane to do no matter how anyone tries to surgar coat
    around it.
    I'm saying here and now if that happens forget Championships because
    his cap figure by that time will be 40-50% of the offense alone.
    How do we pay for a good line for our QB who can't run wild anymore?
    Or we pay for a line but have crappy RB's and WR's.You cannot assume
    we will draft well to cover anything ha ha.
    I guess we could go cheap with defense and special teams and have a
    great offense(there is an idea)I bet we get a wild card and done at best.
    I'd rather take my chances with the ransom of picks and win another
    Championship.
    The same formula we used before when all we needed was a game manager.
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:The idea of 30M for one player is seemingly insane. That's anywhere from 3 to 5 pro bowlers at varying other positions.


    It especially is for a QB that you're not really making the focal point of your offense.

    Which is why this is a debate on Russell. Not many people are debating that Russell's a great football player, and a great QB. But if Pete is doubling down on the pound the rock ball control run game, why would we pay our QB 25-30M a year sucking up that much cap space.

    Yes you pay guys like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, etc that kind of money because they are the focal points of their offenses.

    This is why our offense has been in this limbo ever since Russell got paid, it's been a tug of war between trying to make the offense work while paying the defense vs. wanting to run the ball when your QB is sucking up 50% of the cap space for the offense.

    On one spectrum this is what I have been saying but you put it in a better way
    I'm good with that and frankly I get tired of trying to point out that 30 plus million
    on his next contract is insane to do no matter how anyone tries to surgar coat
    around it. I'm saying here and now if that happens forget Championships because
    his cap figure by that time will be 40-50% of the offense alone.


    What if 30 mil isn't 40-50% of the offense because of cap inflation or changes to the CBA in 2020? What if if they structure the contract in a way that is structured so that only 2 of 4 or 5 years hit that mark?

    How do we pay for a good line for our QB who can't run wild anymore?
    Or we pay for a line but have crappy RB's and WR's.You cannot assume
    we will draft well to cover anything ha ha.


    But you can assume that lightning strikes twice with QBs drafted 3rd round or later? At least with RBs and WRs you can diversify across round.

    I guess we could go cheap with defense and special teams and have a
    great offense(there is an idea)I bet we get a wild card and done at best.


    There was someone, a long while ago that opined that there are natural cycles to cap expendetures depending on cycle of drafting. In our championship season we in fact were 'cheap' on defense with the offense consuming 52.31% of the cap and defense consuming 39.07% according to sportrac http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/positional/2013/full-cap/. Our defense was young and relatively unpaid, just like RW was. On a long enough timetable we are not going to have our LOB players and it stands to reason they will try to replace through the draft thus resulting in a cheap defense again. This has already happened on the line, we have some young guys with promise but none is a total beast (even if I think Frank Clark is awesome). If they hit their picks with defense we very well could be in a similar position of salary cap % where the defense pulls down less than 45% in 2020 or 2021.

    the funny thing is, I have been a staunch defender of the defense from time to time but this team was just in a blessed situation having so much good young talent balling out of their minds on cheap contracts supplemented with above average veterans on middling contracts. The defense hasn't been nearly as good as that high water mark and thats fine because that high water mark was historical - you just aren't going to have ever increasing benchmarks when you're in the discussion for best defense of all time year 2 of the playoff run. But even being a staunch defender, I can see that they simply haven't equaled a ratio of their salary to performance from the 2012-2014 run.

    On the other hand, the team has made huge money and draft pick mistakes (both shipping and actual picks) with offense in a seemingly rudderless or stubborn path of failure.


    I'd rather take my chances with the ransom of picks and win another
    Championship.
    The same formula we used before when all we needed was a game manager.


    Well I'll put you down as an optimist that the rest of the offense figures their crap out because a game manager is not going to cut it out there with something resembling the 2017 offense.

    I don't see how you view the winning formula as you do or in the context you do. It isn't as simple as historical defense and a game manager QB when you interject salary, draft, extensions, FA pickups and other considerations. The 2012-2014 Seahawks were young and cheap with almost every single of their best players on defense. And they were not only good but one of the best at the position compared to the ENTIRE league.

    To me the forumula seems to be criminally underpaid HOF defensive players on defense surrounded by solid players, an average line and two dynamic weapons on offense one of who is underpaid and relatively unknown in his capabilities.

    If you just want to blow the team up fine, blow it up, and there's not fault in that opinion. But at least understand what you're blowing up before you push the plunger.

    We could totally have a conversation about how you keep a historical defense together under the conditions of the NFL where the best players are on rookie or friendly 2nd contracts. I just don't know if we'd wind up in even close to the current Seahawks roster.
    Last edited by mrt144 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • 2012: 106/93
    2013: 106/96
    2014: 91/95
    2015: 101/111
    2016: 97/89
    2017: 78/112

    Kind of looks like to me that the worse our Line and running game got the more defenses were able to target Wilson as well as take away his targets.

    Ok continue with your Crucifixions.

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  • chris98251 wrote:2012: 106/93
    2013: 106/96
    2014: 91/95
    2015: 101/111
    2016: 97/89
    2017: 78/112

    Kind of looks like to me that the worse our Line and running game got the more defenses were able to target Wilson as well as take away his targets.

    Ok continue with your Crucifixions.

    Image


    Doesn't explain why 2017 is so crazy in the dichotomy. 2012-2016 isn't very meaningful in variance - 2017 is.

    I don't know if you guys remember my post about the drive efficiency tanking in 2017 and being an outlier to previous years. But there's another supporting piece of evidence of how out of whack things got. It's entirely possible that we hit the threshold where a symptom of dysfunction is such a stark contrasts.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    randomation wrote:I almost wish they would trade Russ for 1 33 two firsts and two seconds. Put him on the Browns and they are a championship contender instantly then maybe people here would realize what the Hawks had.


    I do too. That would be an amazing haul for him, and he'd be out of the conference and would rarely be a threat to us.

    In reality though, the Browns will draft a QB .. probably ruin him forever (RIP Sam Darnold's career) .. and we will pay Wilson 30M a year and go 9-7/10-6 more often than not.


    You realize that "haul" is basically what the rams paid for goff right? That isn't an amazing "haul" for an all pro level qb and Russ has shown he can be when he isn't handicapped by playcalling.
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  • mrt144 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:2012: 106/93
    2013: 106/96
    2014: 91/95
    2015: 101/111
    2016: 97/89
    2017: 78/112

    Kind of looks like to me that the worse our Line and running game got the more defenses were able to target Wilson as well as take away his targets.

    Ok continue with your Crucifixions.

    Image


    Doesn't explain why 2017 is so crazy in the dichotomy. 2012-2016 isn't very meaningful in variance - 2017 is.

    I don't know if you guys remember my post about the drive efficiency tanking in 2017 and being an outlier to previous years. But there's another supporting piece of evidence of how out of whack things got. It's entirely possible that we hit the threshold where a symptom of dysfunction is such a stark contrasts.


    It's the perfect storm---Shitty play-calls, Crap O-Line play, ZERO Run game, a kicker that probably wouldn't make the squad in high school, too many major Injuries to our Defensive stars.
    Getting rid of Russell Wilson would only exacerbate the problem with our Offense.
    After what seems like an eternity, we finally have a Franchise Quarterback that's worth a shit, and some in here actually think he's the problem?
    "Time To Trade Russell"?, not only no, but HELL NO!! :pukeface:
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:2012: 106/93
    2013: 106/96
    2014: 91/95
    2015: 101/111
    2016: 97/89
    2017: 78/112

    Kind of looks like to me that the worse our Line and running game got the more defenses were able to target Wilson as well as take away his targets.

    Ok continue with your Crucifixions.

    Image


    Doesn't explain why 2017 is so crazy in the dichotomy. 2012-2016 isn't very meaningful in variance - 2017 is.

    I don't know if you guys remember my post about the drive efficiency tanking in 2017 and being an outlier to previous years. But there's another supporting piece of evidence of how out of whack things got. It's entirely possible that we hit the threshold where a symptom of dysfunction is such a stark contrasts.


    It's the perfect storm---Shitty play-calls, Crap O-Line play, ZERO Run game, a kicker that probably wouldn't make the squad in high school, too many major Injuries to our Defensive stars.
    Getting rid of Russell Wilson would only exacerbate the problem with our Offense.
    After what seems like an eternity, we finally have a Franchise Quarterback that's worth a shit, and some in here actually think he's the problem?
    "Time To Trade Russell"?, not only no, but HELL NO!! :pukeface:


    At least we know this isn't unique to RW - there have probably been trade brady and trade rodgers and trade peyton fans at varoius times, especially relatively stark times.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Even with his 1st-3rd-quarter faults well-documented, Russ is still better than the QB hell we'd be leaping into if we traded him. Get him a RB.


    Hypothetically say we moved him before the '17 draft to Cleveland and wound up with Deshaun Watson as his replacement. Would you still feel like they were in "QB hell" with an ultra talented QB on a contract significantly cheaper?


    No.

    But I made my post under the assumption that DeShaun Watson wasn't on our roster. That hasn't changed, has it? I admit I haven't been checking in as much lately...


    Your assumption is in the event Russell were moved, the QB we would have would be terrible and sentence this team to a decade of losing. Fact is, we cannot really assume either hitting a home run and finding a cheaper QB to take over or the idea that Wilson would be replaced with some stiff that would be terrible.

    I feel like this team would be as likely to land a Watson type rookie as they would a guy that would flop.


    If Watson types were as plentiful as you imply, the NFL would look very different than it is now. I'm firmly in the "bird in the hand" camp on this one.
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  • One other thing that I think is a big deal that nobody talks about is Russells relationship with his teammates. 2012/2013 Russell was absolutely loved by his teammates. I don't know if it was success, money, Ciara, the Golden Gate drama but something change there. I certainly dont blame Russ but i defintly think there a problem there that doesn't get talked about enough.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:2012: 106/93
    2013: 106/96
    2014: 91/95
    2015: 101/111
    2016: 97/89
    2017: 78/112

    Kind of looks like to me that the worse our Line and running game got the more defenses were able to target Wilson as well as take away his targets.

    Ok continue with your Crucifixions.

    Image


    Doesn't explain why 2017 is so crazy in the dichotomy. 2012-2016 isn't very meaningful in variance - 2017 is.

    I don't know if you guys remember my post about the drive efficiency tanking in 2017 and being an outlier to previous years. But there's another supporting piece of evidence of how out of whack things got. It's entirely possible that we hit the threshold where a symptom of dysfunction is such a stark contrasts.


    It's the perfect storm---Shitty play-calls, Crap O-Line play, ZERO Run game, a kicker that probably wouldn't make the squad in high school, too many major Injuries to our Defensive stars.
    Getting rid of Russell Wilson would only exacerbate the problem with our Offense.
    After what seems like an eternity, we finally have a Franchise Quarterback that's worth a shit, and some in here actually think he's the problem?
    "Time To Trade Russell"?, not only no, but HELL NO!! :pukeface:

    Nailed it! Great post! :2thumbs:
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:2012: 106/93
    2013: 106/96
    2014: 91/95
    2015: 101/111
    2016: 97/89
    2017: 78/112

    Kind of looks like to me that the worse our Line and running game got the more defenses were able to target Wilson as well as take away his targets.

    Ok continue with your Crucifixions.

    Image


    Doesn't explain why 2017 is so crazy in the dichotomy. 2012-2016 isn't very meaningful in variance - 2017 is.

    I don't know if you guys remember my post about the drive efficiency tanking in 2017 and being an outlier to previous years. But there's another supporting piece of evidence of how out of whack things got. It's entirely possible that we hit the threshold where a symptom of dysfunction is such a stark contrasts.


    It's the perfect storm---Shitty play-calls, Crap O-Line play, ZERO Run game, a kicker that probably wouldn't make the squad in high school, too many major Injuries to our Defensive stars.
    Getting rid of Russell Wilson would only exacerbate the problem with our Offense.
    After what seems like an eternity, we finally have a Franchise Quarterback that's worth a shit, and some in here actually think he's the problem?
    "Time To Trade Russell"?, not only no, but HELL NO!! :pukeface:

    Nailed it! Great post! :2thumbs:

    Chris post does sum up last season to be sure.
    The thing being questioned is whether we need to be paying 35 million after his contract is up
    Why?Just because he is considered a star?He has more question marks to me than a Brady,
    Brees and Rodgers as these have already been discussed in other topics.
    Again his trade value will never be higher than now it is that simple.
    Suppose we wait till next season and he is no better?
    Still cannot seem to audible out or use the pocket and just run into sacks?
    The value drops more and we are screwed into almost taking that 35 million
    out of some belief or fan backlash because they won't accept he won't get better?
    I hope I got him wrong and will eat crow crap but I have seen many QB's in my time
    I'm not just some semi troll looking for attention.
    I understand it's not a popular topic but it's a team game with so many parts
    that 35 million could be better used in the long run in my opinion.
    So what if he went to another team.
    I will bet the same issues we see here will still be there and maybe even worse.
    I am done with this thread..Before I go though(mrt144)You made some good points
    on the cap but pushing the can down the road doesn't end well in short time
    it is kind of how we got to where we are now..
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  • Just want to say that even Watson isn't a proven player yet. His OL was garbage but they could at least somewhat run it and BoB completely changed the offense to suit Watson and it was difficult to prepare for. Also, he wasn't very accurate, PFF had him as the 38th most accurate QB after accounting for drops, throwaway, etc. And he was throwing to IMO the best WR duo in the league at the time in Fuller and Hopkins.
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    Doesn't explain why 2017 is so crazy in the dichotomy. 2012-2016 isn't very meaningful in variance - 2017 is.

    I don't know if you guys remember my post about the drive efficiency tanking in 2017 and being an outlier to previous years. But there's another supporting piece of evidence of how out of whack things got. It's entirely possible that we hit the threshold where a symptom of dysfunction is such a stark contrasts.


    It's the perfect storm---Shitty play-calls, Crap O-Line play, ZERO Run game, a kicker that probably wouldn't make the squad in high school, too many major Injuries to our Defensive stars.
    Getting rid of Russell Wilson would only exacerbate the problem with our Offense.
    After what seems like an eternity, we finally have a Franchise Quarterback that's worth a shit, and some in here actually think he's the problem?
    "Time To Trade Russell"?, not only no, but HELL NO!! :pukeface:

    Nailed it! Great post! :2thumbs:

    Chris post does sum up last season to be sure.
    The thing being questioned is whether we need to be paying 35 million after his contract is up
    Why?Just because he is considered a star?He has more question marks to me than a Brady,
    Brees and Rodgers as these have already been discussed in other topics.
    Again his trade value will never be higher than now it is that simple.
    Suppose we wait till next season and he is no better?
    Still cannot seem to audible out or use the pocket and just run into sacks?
    The value drops more and we are screwed into almost taking that 35 million
    out of some belief or fan backlash because they won't accept he won't get better?
    I hope I got him wrong and will eat crow crap but I have seen many QB's in my time
    I'm not just some semi troll looking for attention.
    I understand it's not a popular topic but it's a team game with so many parts
    that 35 million could be better used in the long run in my opinion.
    So what if he went to another team.
    I will bet the same issues we see here will still be there and maybe even worse.
    I am done with this thread..Before I go though(mrt144)You made some good points
    on the cap but pushing the can down the road doesn't end well in short time
    it is kind of how we got to where we are now..

    So using your “logic” all teams that have a top veteran QB’s should trade them. Bye bye Shady Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Worthlessburger, Newton, Stafford, Brees etc etc, as all of their next contracts will be thru the roof and their trade value will never be higher right???

    That’s beyond stupid..... as mentioned here previous times franchise QB’s are RARE and don’t grow on trees.
    We’ve had exactly ONE in all of the Hawks existence, ONE, and you want to trade that away. Puzzling to say the least.

    Ideas like this is why I hate fantasy football and Madden. Everyone thinks they are a wheeling and dealing “master GM” because they won their fantasy league or beat their best buds at a video game.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!

    I SO do not care about your fantasy team and who's on it!
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  • ^^^^^100! ALL. OF. IT.^^^^^
    Love, Peace & Elbow Grease. Let's ROLL, Hawks!
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    It's the perfect storm---Shitty play-calls, Crap O-Line play, ZERO Run game, a kicker that probably wouldn't make the squad in high school, too many major Injuries to our Defensive stars.
    Getting rid of Russell Wilson would only exacerbate the problem with our Offense.
    After what seems like an eternity, we finally have a Franchise Quarterback that's worth a shit, and some in here actually think he's the problem?
    "Time To Trade Russell"?, not only no, but HELL NO!! :pukeface:

    Nailed it! Great post! :2thumbs:

    Chris post does sum up last season to be sure.
    The thing being questioned is whether we need to be paying 35 million after his contract is up
    Why?Just because he is considered a star?He has more question marks to me than a Brady,
    Brees and Rodgers as these have already been discussed in other topics.
    Again his trade value will never be higher than now it is that simple.
    Suppose we wait till next season and he is no better?
    Still cannot seem to audible out or use the pocket and just run into sacks?
    The value drops more and we are screwed into almost taking that 35 million
    out of some belief or fan backlash because they won't accept he won't get better?
    I hope I got him wrong and will eat crow crap but I have seen many QB's in my time
    I'm not just some semi troll looking for attention.
    I understand it's not a popular topic but it's a team game with so many parts
    that 35 million could be better used in the long run in my opinion.
    So what if he went to another team.
    I will bet the same issues we see here will still be there and maybe even worse.
    I am done with this thread..Before I go though(mrt144)You made some good points
    on the cap but pushing the can down the road doesn't end well in short time
    it is kind of how we got to where we are now..

    So using your “logic” all teams that have a top veteran QB’s should trade them. Bye bye Shady Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Worthlessburger, Newton, Stafford, Brees etc etc, as all of their next contracts will be thru the roof and their trade value will never be higher right???

    That’s beyond stupid..... as mentioned here previous times franchise QB’s are RARE and don’t grow on trees.
    We’ve had exactly ONE in all of the Hawks existence, ONE, and you want to trade that away. Puzzling to say the least.

    Ideas like this is why I hate fantasy football and Madden. Everyone thinks they are a wheeling and dealing “master GM” because they won their fantasy league or beat their best buds at a video game.


    Pretty amazing of the QB's you just mentioned outside of Brady nobody has carried their team to more then 1 SB win. If you look at Big Bens first win it really had nothing to do with him, same for Russell and his first win, Peyton Mannings last title. In fact if you got rid of Brady I'd say defense and run game has been more effective then Pro Bowl quarterbacks.
    getnasty
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  • getnasty wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Nailed it! Great post! :2thumbs:

    Chris post does sum up last season to be sure.
    The thing being questioned is whether we need to be paying 35 million after his contract is up
    Why?Just because he is considered a star?He has more question marks to me than a Brady,
    Brees and Rodgers as these have already been discussed in other topics.
    Again his trade value will never be higher than now it is that simple.
    Suppose we wait till next season and he is no better?
    Still cannot seem to audible out or use the pocket and just run into sacks?
    The value drops more and we are screwed into almost taking that 35 million
    out of some belief or fan backlash because they won't accept he won't get better?
    I hope I got him wrong and will eat crow crap but I have seen many QB's in my time
    I'm not just some semi troll looking for attention.
    I understand it's not a popular topic but it's a team game with so many parts
    that 35 million could be better used in the long run in my opinion.
    So what if he went to another team.
    I will bet the same issues we see here will still be there and maybe even worse.
    I am done with this thread..Before I go though(mrt144)You made some good points
    on the cap but pushing the can down the road doesn't end well in short time
    it is kind of how we got to where we are now..

    So using your “logic” all teams that have a top veteran QB’s should trade them. Bye bye Shady Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Worthlessburger, Newton, Stafford, Brees etc etc, as all of their next contracts will be thru the roof and their trade value will never be higher right???

    That’s beyond stupid..... as mentioned here previous times franchise QB’s are RARE and don’t grow on trees.
    We’ve had exactly ONE in all of the Hawks existence, ONE, and you want to trade that away. Puzzling to say the least.

    Ideas like this is why I hate fantasy football and Madden. Everyone thinks they are a wheeling and dealing “master GM” because they won their fantasy league or beat their best buds at a video game.


    Pretty amazing of the QB's you just mentioned outside of Brady nobody has carried their team to more then 1 SB win. If you look at Big Bens first win it really had nothing to do with him, same for Russell and his first win, Peyton Mannings last title. In fact if you got rid of Brady I'd say defense and run game has been more effective then Pro Bowl quarterbacks.

    I don’t think you are giving Russ enough credit for XLVIII, while he didnt have eye popping fantasy football stats that game he played a great game. ......and without Russ they don’t make it to XLVIII.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!

    I SO do not care about your fantasy team and who's on it!
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  • [quote="getnasty"

    Pretty amazing of the QB's you just mentioned outside of Brady nobody has carried their team to more then 1 SB win. If you look at Big Bens first win it really had nothing to do with him, same for Russell and his first win, Peyton Mannings last title. In fact if you got rid of Brady I'd say defense and run game has been more effective then Pro Bowl quarterbacks.[/quote]


    That is not really true. Footballoutsiders showed that good QB's can keep an offense going at a higher level of efficacy then a defense can. Defense's suffer the most from age and loss of speed, championship level D units drop and they drop fast.
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  • :smiley_boxin:
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  • Dang. It's good to be Cousins.......
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
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  • It also gets me curious of what a desperate team like that actually would give up for Wilson??

    Not that they can have him.... :3-1:
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  • Seymour wrote:Maybe $30M is selling him "short".

    Jets are considering giving Cousins $60M for 1st year of contract LMAO!!

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jets-reportedly-want-to-give-kirk-cousins-60m-in-the-first-year-of-his-contract/

    According to Brian Costello of the New York Post, the Jets are toying around with ways of getting creative with a contract offer to Cousins, including offering the free agent quarterback an absurd $60 million guaranteed in the first year.


    Well they have a ridiculous amount of cap space (73M for 2018), so it's kinda genius to give Cousins almost all his salary in the first year, then they'd be in a great cap situation for the next 3-4 years of the contract.

    Wonder how the league would feel about this though, if that violates any part of the labor agreement.
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  • Ya, and it could get real interesting if Mr Ed gets involved.

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  • Kirk Cousins is the luckiest player that ever lived..
    All that money prior to what he is going to get and for what?
    Would I take KC over RW?
    Absolutely not..That is what I think of KC.
    His own coach didn't like him lol.
    That money he is getting does the Hawks zero favors and it's going to hurt.
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  • He's an above average QB imo. I'm not sure he's even in the top 10. Oh well, do your thing Kirk.
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  • IndyHawk wrote:Kirk Cousins is the luckiest player that ever lived..
    All that money prior to what he is going to get and for what?
    Would I take KC over RW?
    Absolutely not..That is what I think of KC.
    His own coach didn't like him lol.
    That money he is getting does the Hawks zero favors and it's going to hurt.


    Blame Foles and Keenum

    Those guys showed every GM that you can go to conference championships, and even win the SB with an average but experienced game managing QB that knows how to read defenses, go through progressions and make a couple plays a game......................so if you're a team like the Jets that doesn't have one of those guys?

    You go get one, cause the alternative is getting embarrassed by the Pats for the 18th straight year.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He's an above average QB imo. I'm not sure he's even in the top 10. Oh well, do your thing Kirk.


    If Elway is smart, he'll throw in a green woman. Kirk always had a weakness for the green woman. :twisted:

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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Kirk Cousins is the luckiest player that ever lived..
    All that money prior to what he is going to get and for what?
    Would I take KC over RW?
    Absolutely not..That is what I think of KC.
    His own coach didn't like him lol.
    That money he is getting does the Hawks zero favors and it's going to hurt.


    Blame Foles and Keenum

    Those guys showed every GM that you can go to conference championships, and even win the SB with an average but experienced game managing QB that knows how to read defenses, go through progressions and make a couple plays a game......................so if you're a team like the Jets that doesn't have one of those guys?

    You go get one, cause the alternative is getting embarrassed by the Pats for the 18th straight year.


    Woe be unto those GMs who don't get their ducks in a row with the majority of their other position groups and players though.
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  • mrt144 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Kirk Cousins is the luckiest player that ever lived..
    All that money prior to what he is going to get and for what?
    Would I take KC over RW?
    Absolutely not..That is what I think of KC.
    His own coach didn't like him lol.
    That money he is getting does the Hawks zero favors and it's going to hurt.


    Blame Foles and Keenum

    Those guys showed every GM that you can go to conference championships, and even win the SB with an average but experienced game managing QB that knows how to read defenses, go through progressions and make a couple plays a game......................so if you're a team like the Jets that doesn't have one of those guys?

    You go get one, cause the alternative is getting embarrassed by the Pats for the 18th straight year.


    Woe be unto those GMs who don't get their ducks in a row with the majority of their other position groups and players though.


    For sure, obviously you also need a very good defense and run game..................kinda what we're trying to build here again.

    But you also need an experienced QB, and like Smith just got paid, so will Cousins.

    Also why I keep saying we're not going to trade Russell, because there's only 10-15 of these guys in the league. So when you have one, especially one as good as Russell, you pay him.
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  • We used to joke about that all the time. Kirk never cared if they were green.
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
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  • Won't happen, so why even talk about it. Maybe they should, but we all know you don't trade a young franchise QB.
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  • Yep. If they want to set the team back for years, have at it.
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
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  • RussB wrote:Trade him for Kirk and a draft pick if it was an option.

    BWAHAHAHAHA....Wait!!!....There's no way that you are serious?!? :roll:
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  • Better to trade him for the rights to Scot McCloughan .
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  • Wilson is the little one trick pony. Slowed down last year. Going to get worse next.

    Great athlete. Just doesn’t have the goods upstairs to do well at the position.
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  • hawkman wrote:Wilson is the little one trick pony. Slowed down last year. Going to get worse next.

    Great athlete. Just doesn’t have the goods upstairs to do well at the position.


    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Better to trade him for the rights to Scot McCloughan .


    Now we're talking.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:Wilson is the little one trick pony. Slowed down last year. Going to get worse next.

    Great athlete. Just doesn’t have the goods upstairs to do well at the position.


    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.


    Gruden also drafted Marcus Tui (still can’t spell the whole name) and called him a warrior. As a Husky fan I loved Tui, but he didn’t do much in the NFL, and neither did any QB Gruden drafted.

    Yes Foles had a decent line. Line looks much better when the QB stays in the pocket and can throw the ball to the middle of the field. Our line didn’t look that horrible just due to bad luck. The 05 line would have looked bad with Wilson at QB. Can’t block for a guy when you don’t know where he will be.

    Call me a troll that’s fine. I look at reality. Wilson is a great athlete, but not a high IQ QB. I’m pretty much saying what every football fan outside of Seattle has been saying all along.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:Wilson is the little one trick pony. Slowed down last year. Going to get worse next.

    Great athlete. Just doesn’t have the goods upstairs to do well at the position.


    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.


    Gruden also drafted Marcus Tui (still can’t spell the whole name) and called him a warrior. As a Husky fan I loved Tui, but he didn’t do much in the NFL, and neither did any QB Gruden drafted.

    Yes Foles had a decent line. Line looks much better when the QB stays in the pocket and can throw the ball to the middle of the field. Our line didn’t look that horrible just due to bad luck. The 05 line would have looked bad with Wilson at QB. Can’t block for a guy when you don’t know where he will be.

    Call me a troll that’s fine. I look at reality. Wilson is a great athlete, but not a high IQ QB. I’m pretty much saying what every football fan outside of Seattle has been saying all along.


    Why aren't you on major sports networks talking about your brilliance?
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  • mistaowen wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:Wilson is the little one trick pony. Slowed down last year. Going to get worse next.

    Great athlete. Just doesn’t have the goods upstairs to do well at the position.


    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.


    Gruden also drafted Marcus Tui (still can’t spell the whole name) and called him a warrior. As a Husky fan I loved Tui, but he didn’t do much in the NFL, and neither did any QB Gruden drafted.

    Yes Foles had a decent line. Line looks much better when the QB stays in the pocket and can throw the ball to the middle of the field. Our line didn’t look that horrible just due to bad luck. The 05 line would have looked bad with Wilson at QB. Can’t block for a guy when you don’t know where he will be.

    Call me a troll that’s fine. I look at reality. Wilson is a great athlete, but not a high IQ QB. I’m pretty much saying what every football fan outside of Seattle has been saying all along.


    Why aren't you on major sports networks talking about your brilliance?


    Nothing I said was brilliant. Easy observations really.
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