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Art Thiel ask if its Time to trade Russell

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  • getnasty wrote:One other thing that I think is a big deal that nobody talks about is Russells relationship with his teammates. 2012/2013 Russell was absolutely loved by his teammates. I don't know if it was success, money, Ciara, the Golden Gate drama but something change there. I certainly dont blame Russ but i defintly think there a problem there that doesn't get talked about enough.


    I mean, last year it was the subject of a national investigative reporting piece by literally the guy who has made his name doing excellent investigative pieces on the internal dynamics of NFL teams.

    I think it gets talked about a lot, and maybe even too much (the Golden Tate nonsense in particular).
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  • 5 pages on this subject is borderline embarrassing.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    mistaowen wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.


    Gruden also drafted Marcus Tui (still can’t spell the whole name) and called him a warrior. As a Husky fan I loved Tui, but he didn’t do much in the NFL, and neither did any QB Gruden drafted.

    Yes Foles had a decent line. Line looks much better when the QB stays in the pocket and can throw the ball to the middle of the field. Our line didn’t look that horrible just due to bad luck. The 05 line would have looked bad with Wilson at QB. Can’t block for a guy when you don’t know where he will be.
    Welcome back Sioux/Leif
    Call me a troll that’s fine. I look at reality. Wilson is a great athlete, but not a high IQ QB. I’m pretty much saying what every football fan outside of Seattle has been saying all along.

    Looks like Sioux/Leif is back. What’s your guy Bev up to lately???
    Why aren't you on major sports networks talking about your brilliance?


    Nothing I said was brilliant. Easy observations really.
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  • RW doesnt have the mental goods to play QB.
    RW has a documented historic performance in his first 6 seasons at QB.

    Something aint adding up here. I guess I'll discount all evidence that RW is good and just sit on my haunches and claim he doesn't have the smarts to play QB.
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  • hawkman wrote:
    mistaowen wrote:
    hawkman wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.


    Gruden also drafted Marcus Tui (still can’t spell the whole name) and called him a warrior. As a Husky fan I loved Tui, but he didn’t do much in the NFL, and neither did any QB Gruden drafted.

    Yes Foles had a decent line. Line looks much better when the QB stays in the pocket and can throw the ball to the middle of the field. Our line didn’t look that horrible just due to bad luck. The 05 line would have looked bad with Wilson at QB. Can’t block for a guy when you don’t know where he will be.

    Call me a troll that’s fine. I look at reality. Wilson is a great athlete, but not a high IQ QB. I’m pretty much saying what every football fan outside of Seattle has been saying all along.


    Why aren't you on major sports networks talking about your brilliance?


    Nothing I said was brilliant. Easy observations really.


    Welcome back Sioux! Wondered how long it'd take. Bevell in good spirits?
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  • I see mistaowen beat me to the punch...in the nutzz... :2thumbs:
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  • As a woman I would say, RW has an offensive package that most here wish they had.
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  • Ginahawk wrote:As a woman I would say, RW has an offensive package that most here wish they had.


    Damn Gina!
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  • mrt144 wrote:
    Ginahawk wrote:As a woman I would say, RW has an offensive package that most here wish they had.


    Damn Gina!



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  • hawkman wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    hawkman wrote:Wilson is the little one trick pony. Slowed down last year. Going to get worse next.

    Great athlete. Just doesn’t have the goods upstairs to do well at the position.


    Well since the trolling has begun, Gruden thought he was one of the most intelligent and football savvy QB's he had ever interviewed. We seen and heard that he was not allowed to audible and had designated targets he was suppose to use most the time, Bevells route trees were the easiest to cover in the league which led to Sandlot football.

    Add no running game and a porous line and you have the makings of a disaster.

    Foles had a good Line, a Good defense, Good receivers and a very good Head Coach and OC that adjusted to his strengths, something Wilson did not have in his favor. Foles also had a Head Coach that trusted him.

    Brady had a shit load of yards, but the hit him and the receivers over and over and tightened up when they had too, they never let up and by the end of the game it made the difference.

    Dilfer had a great arm also, won a Super Bowl does he come off as a superior intellect, oh how about Eli Manning, your argument has too many holes and unsupported innuendos to take seriously.

    If your going to comment on his ability tell the full story.


    Gruden also drafted Marcus Tui (still can’t spell the whole name) and called him a warrior. As a Husky fan I loved Tui, but he didn’t do much in the NFL, and neither did any QB Gruden drafted.

    Yes Foles had a decent line. Line looks much better when the QB stays in the pocket and can throw the ball to the middle of the field. Our line didn’t look that horrible just due to bad luck. The 05 line would have looked bad with Wilson at QB. Can’t block for a guy when you don’t know where he will be.

    Call me a troll that’s fine. I look at reality. Wilson is a great athlete, but not a high IQ QB. I’m pretty much saying what every football fan outside of Seattle has been saying all along.

    Looks like Sioux/Leif is back. What’s Bev doing these days Leif???
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  • Can Thiel be traded?
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  • I think every team whose QB is not named Brees, Brady, or Rodgers has a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks the QB isn't good enough. It's still pretty low for Rivers, Ryan, and Big Ben. The rest seem to be fair game, but I swear Wilson is the best QB who gets the most shit from his own fans. Seriously, I can't find many or really any Rams fans who don't like Goff, Eagles fans who dislike Wentz, or Texans fans who dislike Watson, but I guess they get a pass for playing so few games, esp. watson (even though it was well documented he had accuracy issues and is unlikely to sustain close to the level of production he was getting).
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  • adeltaY wrote:I think every team whose QB is not named Brees, Brady, or Rodgers has a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks the QB isn't good enough. It's still pretty low for Rivers, Ryan, and Big Ben. The rest seem to be fair game, but I swear Wilson is the best QB who gets the most shit from his own fans. Seriously, I can't find many or really any Rams fans who don't like Goff, Eagles fans who dislike Wentz, or Texans fans who dislike Watson, but I guess they get a pass for playing so few games, esp. watson (even though it was well documented he had accuracy issues and is unlikely to sustain close to the level of production he was getting).


    Again, I think we see most of the Russell haters on here because it's a fan site. Poll Hawk fans in the NW and I'd bet you wouldn't see the same percentage of criticism as we see on here from all the armchair QB's who fancy themselves as football experts.
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  • adeltaY wrote:I think every team whose QB is not named Brees, Brady, or Rodgers has a significant portion of the fanbase that thinks the QB isn't good enough. It's still pretty low for Rivers, Ryan, and Big Ben. The rest seem to be fair game, but I swear Wilson is the best QB who gets the most shit from his own fans. Seriously, I can't find many or really any Rams fans who don't like Goff, Eagles fans who dislike Wentz, or Texans fans who dislike Watson, but I guess they get a pass for playing so few games, esp. watson (even though it was well documented he had accuracy issues and is unlikely to sustain close to the level of production he was getting).

    I really don't think that's true at all. You have some here who look at RW pics while reading their copy of the lusty argonian maid and you have people who flat out think he’s a middle of the road QB.

    Seems obvious that one camp is so religious about it that they are incapable of having a halfway intelligent discussion about the prospect of what RW will be like when the physical traits degrade. Also seems obvious that the other camp think that time has already come.

    It hasn't...yet, but it will.

    Once again, RW is playing on an outdated contract and we have absolutely no backup plan right now. The contract is very favorable for the next two years while we get back to the type of offense where he can be a pkaymaking point gaurd game manager, where his efficiency got back up over a 100 rating. In the mean time, we trade down in this draft, get more picks, possibly pick up a QB in the draft like Kyle Lauletta or some player of the like in later rounds and he can sit for a year or even two doing the download.

    The most ridiculous thing about RW's religious followers is that they think he will be here forever and that it is perfectly fine to have all our eggs in that basket.

    Thusly, it is equally ridiculous to try and trade him right now with said friggin eggs being in that baskett.

    This isn't rocket science. RW isn't holy, but you still need to provide a plan B.

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  • Before any whackadoodles get all "PREPOSTEROUS!" about drafting a QB.

    From Brady's selection as a sixth-round pick in 2000 to the Brissett pick in the third round in 2016, the Patriots have taken nine quarterbacks in the draft over the past 18 years. Here's the list:

    -- Tom Brady, 2000 (sixth round)
    -- Rohan Davey, 2002 (fourth)
    -- Kliff Kingsbury, 2003 (sixth)
    -- Matt Cassel, 2005 (seventh)
    -- Kevin O'Connell, 2008 (third)
    -- Zac Robinson, 2010 (seventh)
    -- Ryan Mallett, 2011 (third)
    -- Jimmy Garoppolo, 2014 (second)
    -- Jacoby Brissett, 2016 (third)
    *New England also added Brian Hoyer as an undrafted free agent in 2009.



    It's not good enough to just worship a guy when you have a franchise to run.
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  • It is another weird thing about this FO.

    JS gets accolades for picking Wilson but everything else the guy is basically something else

    Why pick someone like Austin Davis, someone with literally no upside, when you know you have to at some point negotiate to keep Wilson and without another QB in the wings that you could potentially go with + grow with - you literally have no leverage at all?
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  • Saying we are worshiping Wilson is a strawman. Personally I've criticised him fairly IMO. I agree with taking QBs every year and developing them but we haven't. I believe Russ can be elite, disagree that the game manager ceiling.

    Let's see how he does in a better system before we relegate him to game manager level, which I think he's proven to be better than.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Saying we are worshiping Wilson is a strawman. Personally I've criticised him fairly IMO. I agree with taking QBs every year and developing them but we haven't. I believe Russ can be elite, disagree that the game manager ceiling.

    Not saying you are worshiping him.

    To clarify what I think he is and isn't: When I say playmaking point gaurd game manager, I don't necessarily mean just game manager in the traditional sense. He's obviously capable of making enormous plays, but he's not really a gun slinging pure pocket passer either. Don't need him to be, in fact, assuminh we get the running game going and balance out the attack again. They're both contingency to each other and also symbiotic. I prefer ot that way really...to have his efficiency up over 100 consistently even if he's still playing conservatively as a passer. Get back to 50/50 football as a gameplan (pending situation) witg efficiency at QB and efficiency at running.

    More and more the league wide lord and savior QBs are becoming transparent. Better, more dynamic coaching should be able to at least mutate some of their offense towards a goal of efficiency even if you're on a SB run and your starter goes out with a season ending injury where you're left with a journeyman backup that you might need to alter your gameplan for.

    Summary: We know that teams that run the football and play D do well in the playoffs. I don't really care who the QB is if we're talking about 35 million. If we can get an institution QB play going of players who are good enough, then so be it. I don't know how many times I see franchises die for 10 years just because of the wrong QB deal at the wrong time, even if just for the sake of injury. RW could end up like Kam or Avril in one single play.

    I say get going on plan b and then have another plan b when b becomes a.
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  • I agree with everything except the running game. I don't believe running matters as much as Pete says it does.
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  • adeltaY wrote:I agree with everything except the running game. I don't believe running matters as much as Pete says it does.


    Yeah last season proved that, we had no running game and won the Super Bowl :)

    Years where we went to the Super Bowl, Lynch and Alexander and a very good defense and a average defense with ball control offense and would have won if not for slanted Officiating.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I agree with everything except the running game. I don't believe running matters as much as Pete says it does.


    Yeah last season proved that, we had no running game and won the Super Bowl :)

    Years where we went to the Super Bowl, Lynch and Alexander and a very good defense and a average defense with ball control offense and would have won if not for slanted Officiating.

    You thought that first SB team had an average D?
    I have to disagree.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I agree with everything except the running game. I don't believe running matters as much as Pete says it does.


    Yeah last season proved that, we had no running game and won the Super Bowl :)

    Years where we went to the Super Bowl, Lynch and Alexander and a very good defense and a average defense with ball control offense and would have won if not for slanted Officiating.


    I think there has to be a semblance of a running game. You at least have to be able to run in short yardage situations to move the chains or score TDs. Passing is waaaaayyyy more important though, as is defense.
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