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Art Thiel ask if its Time to trade Russell

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  • http://sportspressnw.com/2238829/2018/t ... eal-wilson

    Obviously would never happen but just for fun what would you have to get in return (be realistic) to trade Russ.

    For me I'd ship him to Cleveland for this picks 1,4,33 this year and a second next year.
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  • getnasty wrote:http://sportspressnw.com/2238829/2018/thiel-is-it-time-for-seahawks-to-deal-wilson

    Obviously would never happen but just for fun what would you have to get in return (be realistic) to trade Russ.

    For me I'd ship him to Cleveland for this picks 1,4,33 this year and a second next year.

    Arty Farty going the contrarian d-bag route, just like he used to do at the PI.
    Must be hard up for clicks. Franchise QB’s don’t grow on trees old man (comment aimed at arty).

    John Clayton on the radio said it’s a stupid idea but if he had to trade Russ it would be for 3 1sts , 2nds, and you still would be getting the short end of the trade.
    Last edited by Sports Hernia on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?
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  • Bobblehead wrote:When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?


    Any one of them would have won it as the the D held Denver to 8 points...Defense and special teams alone scored enough to win
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  • rjas77 wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?


    Any one of them would have won it as the the D held Denver to 8 points...Defense and special teams alone scored enough to win



    So we didn't need a franchise QB to win?
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  • Fine with me, Id rather have Kirk Cousins anyway.
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  • Bobblehead wrote:
    rjas77 wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?


    Any one of them would have won it as the the D held Denver to 8 points...Defense and special teams alone scored enough to win



    So we didn't need a franchise QB to win?


    Not in that game but he sure came in handy in the other 18 games to get to that game. His running game alone helped Lynch carry us. It also helped Cable keep a job 4 years longer than he should have.
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  • This thread is crazy. You all act like you don't know what it looks like when a defense plays great ALL GAME LONG, and gets worn out because the offense can't do a damn thing.

    Like you've never seen that Thursday night tie game with the Cardinals.

    Like Manning wouldn't have had a different mentality going into the 4th quarter if he knew the Seahawks offense couldn't score.

    People forgetting that the offense was absolutely a part of that Superbowl win...
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  • Rat wrote:Fine with me, Id rather have Kirk Cousins anyway.
    You forgot to put :sarcasm_on:
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  • Art Thiel is nutz! Answer for Art: “Uh No!”

    You get lucky and find a franchise QB and you ride with your guy. Just as long as you can, you ride that guy.

    Wilson still has lots to learn, but he certainly has that “it” when the chips are down. Now if he’d just throw the freaking ball away when there is nothing there instead of trying to make something out of nothing. There he needs different coaching and he still needs to work on getting better at his craft. Playing stronger earlier and getting leads earlier needs to be focus for him, that said he’s a special player and easily the best QB the Seahawks have ever had. I can’t imagine the total fan revolt that would happen if he was traded, even for the first OA pick the fourth OA pick and the 33rd OA pick. None of this picks absolutely guarantees the team gets a true franchise QB.

    He needs support from an OLine that can give him time to throw from the pocket and from the gun. He needs a running game to make play action possible and to make the D respect the run so he has differing options. He needs a different OC who forces him to be responsible, and he needs some different WRs who can consistently and reliably get open, besides DB. Finally he needs TE that is a real TE, one that can block and can catch too, and one who doesn’t disappear when the thumping starts.

    I wonder if some of these media guys are serious or whether this is click bait they can point to when their ratings are in question. Thiel likes controversy.
    Last edited by jammerhawk on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • Rat wrote:Fine with me, Id rather have Kirk Cousins anyway.
    LOL....
    Kirk Cousins can’t even beat the Dallas Cowboys. Yes he got lucky against us when Earl got hurt, but he is not a franchise QB. Faaaaaarrrr from it.
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  • jammerhawk wrote:Art Thiel is nutz! Answer for Art, “Uh No!”

    You get lucky and find a franchise QB and you ride with your guy. Just as long as you can you ride that guy.

    Wilson still has lots to learn, but he certainly has that “it” when the chips are down. Now if he’d just throw the freaking ball away when there is nothing there instead of trying to make something out of nothing.

    He needs support from an OLine that can give him time to throw from the pocket and from the gun. He needs a running game to make play action possible and to make the D respect the run so he has differing options. He needs a different OC who forces him to be responsible, and he needs some different WRs who can consistently and reliably get open, besides DB. Finally he needs TE that is a real TE, one that can block and can catch too and one who doesn’t disappear when the thumping starts.

    I wonder if some of these media guys are serious or whether this is click bait they can point to when their ratings are in question. Thiel likes controversy.

    Arty has been irrelevant for 2 decades. I don’t think he is stupid, I just think he is a lazy hack (see Jim Moore minus the radio gig).
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  • Couldn’t agree more.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • This is sports journalism? Just make up random stories then report on them?
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  • Many know that I've been more critical of RW than almost anyone here, but in the current climate even with a backup QB winning the SB, you keep RW because his contract is and will continue to be ever more outdated.

    RW is a very, very good QB/Point Guard. I don't think he should be payed at the top of the list even if some other lesser guys are making more, but an outdated contract fits. Let him play it out and if you see a diamond in the rough of a QB then draft him mid to late round and if he sits for a couple years then so be it. If RW can improve further as a pocket aware passer then maybe you pay and stay and so be it. The outcome should be all business and no message board sentiment will matter, including my own.

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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Many know that I've been more critical of RW than almost anyone here, but in the current climate even with a backup QB winning the SB, you keep RW because his contract is and will continue to be ever more outdated.

    RW is a very, very good QB/Point Guard. I don't think he should be payed at the top of the list even if some other lesser guys are making more, but an outdated contract fits. Let him play it out and if you see a diamond in the rough of a QB then draft him mid to late round and if he sits for a couple years then so be it. If RW can improve further as a pocket aware passer then maybe you pay and stay and so be it. The outcome should be all business and no message board sentiment will matter, including my own.

    BYAH!

    Fine with the playing contract out but looking at it with more vision..
    His trade value will never be higher before that contract ends because
    the closer you get the less you will get.
    Maybe he doesn't get any better or improve squat so keep paying?
    As above stated did we win the SB with an elite QB?
    I feel like I'm still waiting to see that.
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  • The number 1 picking team could give their whole draft to us for the next 3 years and I still wouldn't make the trade.
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  • Rat wrote:Fine with me, Id rather have Kirk Cousins anyway.


    He will be making more than Russell after free agency. Russ is the better deal capwise. Therefore, I'll stick with Russ for now.
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  • Welcome to what passes for journalism in Feb in the NFL.

    :229031_shrug:
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

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  • Just think, we could trade him for 3 1sts and draft another Aaron Curry, Rick Mirer, and Dan McGwire! That'd be great!
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  • 1. Trading Russ would be a next level stupid move.
    2. They don't even GET to the Super Bowl w/out him.
    3. Trade Russ and get ready for 6 or 7 win teams, if that.
    Kirk Cousins over Russ? What has Cousins ever won?
    Put down the pipe and slowly step away from the keyboard. :roll:
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  • Myles Garrett, Saqoun Barkley, Baker Mayfield and Mike McGlinchey for Russ then draft Derwin James at 18. That's pretty tempting
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  • Art Thiel...the true definition of a mediot. He was quiet for awhile (thankfully) but I guess now the quiet time is over and is barking again.
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  • Ask any NFL GM if they could build their team around any NFL QB and he would be available for 5 years, Russ would at or near the top in every damn list. It took 37 years for this team to finally get a young franchise QB. You ride that horse to the end.
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  • rjas77 wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?


    Any one of them would have won it as the the D held Denver to 8 points...Defense and special teams alone scored enough to win


    Case Keenum no showed against a vaunted defense (Philly). You think he was going to take down the 2013 49ers defense in the NFCCG who was better than this years Philly D?

    Dak Prescott fell apart this year with no Zeke and an average pass blocking OL. Meanwhile Russell has excelled with a historically bad OL and no running game to speak of at all.

    Nick Foles played with probably the best offensive minds in the game currently and an elite OL.

    The Seahawks probably still win the SB with a Trent Dilfer caliber in 2013 due in large part of having arguably a Top 3 defense off all time. Assembling another defense unit like that more than likely won’t happen anytime soon.
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  • I ask: Is it time for Art Thiel to retire?
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  • original poster wrote:The number 1 picking team could give their whole draft to us for the next 3 years and I still wouldn't make the trade.


    Well I would not trade him, but he has a limit in new contract talks also. As to that trade? I'd say it's a bit.......

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  • getnasty wrote:Myles Garrett, Saqoun Barkley, Baker Mayfield and Mike McGlinchey for Russ then draft Derwin James at 18. That's pretty tempting

    Baker Mayfield is going to be a bust. Not sure he has the mental capacity to be an quality NFL QB.
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  • Sac wrote:I ask: Is it time for Art Thiel to retire?

    We all thought he was.
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Sac wrote:I ask: Is it time for Art Thiel to retire?

    We all thought he was.


    Well he's irrelevant, so close I guess?
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  • Nope, they absolutely do not make the Super Bowl w/out Russ.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Nope, they absolutely do not make the Super Bowl w/out Russ.


    Obviously. RW Had five 4th quarter comebacks and/or game winning drives in 2013. I don't see Captain Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles doing that on the Seahawks. Not only do we not win the SB without RW that year, but I don't think we even make it there.
    Last edited by Sac on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Bobblehead wrote:When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?


    That's impossible to say. He was elite the year they won the SuperBowl . He had a 102 QB rating. Anything over 90 is considered superb. yet he was sacked 44 times. Quite a bit. One thing that can't be overstated is how durable RW is. He's never missed a game.

    He also gave us comeback/ 4th QTR wins such as Carolina, STL, TB, Etc. His amazing throw against the 49ers in the NFC Championship game.
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  • They don't come close to making the Super Bowl w/out him. 6 plus years, and people still don't wanna' give him the credit he deserves.
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  • rjas77 wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:When we won the SB, was Russ a franchise QB?

    Just out of curiosity, would any other QB on that team been able to win the SB?
    Would Nick Foles have won it?
    Would K Keenum won it?
    How about Dak Prescott?


    Any one of them would have won it as the the D held Denver to 8 points...Defense and special teams alone scored enough to win


    Except we would never have made it there as we most likely would not have won two or three of the regular season games without him, and therefore would have missed the playoffs.
    Last edited by MarylandHawk on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • The Browns wouldn't make that trade so his point is moot. No reason to slam Art Thiel. He's been one of the consistently rational sports writers in Seattle history. To ask the question "If it's time to trade" shouldn't drive fans crazy. I doubt the Hawk brass want to make that trade. RW is more than a franchise QB. He is very connected to the community and he's a model citizen. The question really is it time for the Hawks to break it all down and rebuild. That's for management to decide but the media and fans want to discuss it and Thiel is just raising the question that few dare.
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  • I'm never for trading a QB without his replacement already on the roster and prepared to play.

    So no, whether you love Russell or not, he's a top 10 QB that was responsible for over 80% of our offensive output last year. So we'd be INSANE to trade him without his replacement ready to roll.

    Unless your goal is to go back to the 80's and 90's going 7-9 in perpetuity hoping desperately that we find a franchise QB.
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  • I remember not having a franchise QB. Kinda sucked.

    They already can't run the ball, taking the ultra talented QB out of the equation would make the offense unwatchable.
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  • Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

    It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

    It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.


    That's a pretty ridiculous assumption that you're making here.
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  • When you're talking about statistics with video evidence that's not an assumption. It's not alternative facts either.
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  • I am hopeful that the stupidity of our tactics and strategy in offense is responsible for the '3 quarters with nothing to show for it' offense.

    But there is a funny belief system on our board that removing players (even expensive ones) makes you better.

    Our team consistently won because we had better players, that won matchups against the opposing team.

    Carroll has never been a tactical or strategic genius or even close. He is a scout/motivator type of coach. But the scout part might be someone else now because we haven't produced consistently good talent that turns into productive players in a while.

    When the time comes, and players age or leave, this team will get worse. We don't have a staff that can outscheme anyone - our tactic has always been to 'outathlete'. Which makes sense with the # of Pro Bowl players on the team and guys like Wilson that are difficult to scheme against.

    But remove those guys? Remove Earl, Kam and Sherman? Then this team will become very ordinary very quickly.

    Not sure why so many fans are in a race to jettison great players, because that race is going to get you an end of an era and a lot of losses.

    Ask Chicago what happened when Jordan got 'too old'. They didn't replace him, they just start failing. You cannot replace HOF players if your team literally leverages them for wins.

    Bennett leaving is going to leave a mark. Earl leaving will decimate our secondary. Sherman will not be replaced by whatever weird FA or draft pick you are dreaming about. You do not replace HOF player without suffering unless you are a the Patriots...and we are not even close.

    Now Wilson is not a HOF player, but he is a difference maker and since half the league is willing to sell their first born in order to get a shot at an effective QB - it seems the height of idiocy to jettison the one QB that can work with your godawful line and your godawful scheme/strategy. And saving money won't matter because the FO will just blow it on an overpriced replacement that would not come close to the results we are getting now.

    I say this as a person that considers Wilson a tremendously flawed QB. But we don't have the defense to win games with a terrible offense anymore. And we don't have the scouting/FO to really make the team that much better. So getting rid of one of the few things that helps us get wins?
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  • So now comebacks and being flat out clutch in crunch time doesn't matter? Ok.....
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

    It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.


    The crappy first half starts didn't happen until the 2017 season. So you want to erase all the comebacks in his previous 5 years and call that "fair"? Sounds like a slighted opinion to me.
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  • VERY few QB's have as many comeback wins as Russ. That is called clutch. It's too bad that people, who plain refuse to actually understand how important that is, do so because they just don't like the guy.
    Being clutch isn't something you can teach, he has something that most QB's in the league don't have. He is flat out locked in, when the game is on the line, unlike most in the NFL. Period
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  • Seymour wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

    It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.


    The crappy first half starts didn't happen until the 2017 season. So you want to erase all the comebacks in his previous 5 years and call that "fair"? Sounds like a slighted opinion to me.

    It's always been there. It just wasn't as clearly visible to most because we had a running game. RW had never been a QB who comes out throwing accurately. It's always taken him a while to loosen up. It's yet another way he reminds me of McNabb.
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  • Y'all don't need to be bi-polar about this. Hawks need to plan ahead for potential future replacements just like any other position. Step back and take the crazy out of it.
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  • Wins and losses, playoff wins and Super Bowls. That's what truly matters. Comeback wins in the 4th Quarter and Overtime are very hard to come by. If it was so easy, more QB's would do it. Since he's come in to the league, he's one of the best in the NFL. Why is it so hard to give the guy his due credit? Does it actually hurt to realize how damn good he has been? Without Russ, they don't make back to back Super Bowls, period, end of story. Shoot, they might have only won 5 games this year w/out Russ. Maybe
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
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    SoulfishHawk
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    vin.couve12
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