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  • Here's a possibility to what could happen.

    I want the defense to get cheaper, I also want solid investment in the offensive line as well as some day 2 picks.

    Here's how we could do it -

    First lets look at trades for draft capital -

    Earl to Dallas for pick 19 and a 4th rounder

    Sherman to someone for a mid second rounder

    Michael Bennett to the Patriots for New Englands 3rd rounder (I know NE loves Bennett and feel it would be a good spot for him)

    Seattle's draft board now looks wildly different -

    round 1 pick 18
    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    Seattle trades pick 18 to Cleveland for pick 33, 63 and a 4th rounder. Their draft board now looks as follows -

    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    That gives them serious ammo to move up in other rounds to guarantee players they like. With that sort of capital, you could address serious needs on both sides of the ball. I'd fully expect them to a few of those picks into further 3rd rounders. The roster would look almost unrecognisable whilst still building around the 'new' core of players.

    Now lets look at the cap situation.

    Per OTC Seattle has a little under $13.75M in cap space (no idea why this has gone down from $19.5M recently?!)

    Cut Lane

    Cut Avril once he passes his physical

    and account for the Earl, Sherm and Bennett trades and the cap now sits at $47.5M

    All of a sudden players like Allen Robinson and Andrew Norwell become a real possibility. As well as keeping some upcoming 2018 FA's.

    You'd resign McDougald to play FS (the draft is pretty weak at this position)

    You'd resign Maxwell and Shead to cover Sherms spot as well as use a mid rounder on a CB for competition

    You'd go edge early to replace Avril/Bennett and maybe FA for depth.

    These moves seem pretty ridiculous on the surface, but with the coaching moves that have occurred I think big changes to the roster are coming and this just shows what sort of stuff is possible.

    I'd struggle to listen to a valid argument where gaining this much draft capital and cap space VS keeping the players listed in trades/cuts is not a good move.

    To add to that, the above scenario would give Seattle nearly $100M in cap space in 2019 with the only current starting players needing extensions would be Duane Brown, KJ Wright, Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett.
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  • I like those moves and they are not outrageous.
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  • Wenhawk wrote:I like those moves and they are not outrageous.


    Yeah can be seen as a bit ‘Madden GM’ but I’d say it’s more agressive than unrealistic.
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  • original poster wrote:Here's a possibility to what could happen.

    I want the defense to get cheaper, I also want solid investment in the offensive line as well as some day 2 picks.

    Here's how we could do it -

    First lets look at trades for draft capital -

    Earl to Dallas for pick 19 and a 4th rounder

    Sherman to someone for a mid second rounder

    Michael Bennett to the Patriots for New Englands 3rd rounder (I know NE loves Bennett and feel it would be a good spot for him)

    Seattle's draft board now looks wildly different -

    round 1 pick 18
    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    Seattle trades pick 18 to Cleveland for pick 33, 63 and a 4th rounder. Their draft board now looks as follows -

    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    That gives them serious ammo to move up in other rounds to guarantee players they like. With that sort of capital, you could address serious needs on both sides of the ball. I'd fully expect them to a few of those picks into further 3rd rounders. The roster would look almost unrecognisable whilst still building around the 'new' core of players.

    Now lets look at the cap situation.

    Per OTC Seattle has a little under $13.75M in cap space (no idea why this has gone down from $19.5M recently?!)

    Cut Lane

    Cut Avril once he passes his physical

    and account for the Earl, Sherm and Bennett trades and the cap now sits at $47.5M

    All of a sudden players like Allen Robinson and Andrew Norwell become a real possibility. As well as keeping some upcoming 2018 FA's.

    You'd resign McDougald to play FS (the draft is pretty weak at this position)

    You'd resign Maxwell and Shead to cover Sherms spot as well as use a mid rounder on a CB for competition

    You'd go edge early to replace Avril/Bennett and maybe FA for depth.

    These moves seem pretty ridiculous on the surface, but with the coaching moves that have occurred I think big changes to the roster are coming and this just shows what sort of stuff is possible.

    I'd struggle to listen to a valid argument where gaining this much draft capital and cap space VS keeping the players listed in trades/cuts is not a good move.

    To add to that, the above scenario would give Seattle nearly $100M in cap space in 2019 with the only current starting players needing extensions would be Duane Brown, KJ Wright, Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett.


    Damn...nice job! Not out of the question either. I think we may keep Earl though. I just can't see us letting Earl go fill Jerrah's glory hole myself.
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  • I don't think New England would give up a 3rd for Bennett. I think the sense is that Seattle is more likely to cut Bennett for salary relief and I think NE would just wait for him to hit the street.

    I'm also not sure about the valuation of Sherman at 2nd round pick, given his age, contract status and current injury.
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  • original poster wrote:Here's a possibility to what could happen.

    I want the defense to get cheaper, I also want solid investment in the offensive line as well as some day 2 picks.

    Here's how we could do it -

    First lets look at trades for draft capital -

    Earl to Dallas for pick 19 and a 4th rounder

    Sherman to someone for a mid second rounder

    Michael Bennett to the Patriots for New Englands 3rd rounder (I know NE loves Bennett and feel it would be a good spot for him)

    Seattle's draft board now looks wildly different -

    round 1 pick 18
    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    Seattle trades pick 18 to Cleveland for pick 33, 63 and a 4th rounder. Their draft board now looks as follows -

    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    That gives them serious ammo to move up in other rounds to guarantee players they like. With that sort of capital, you could address serious needs on both sides of the ball. I'd fully expect them to a few of those picks into further 3rd rounders. The roster would look almost unrecognisable whilst still building around the 'new' core of players.

    Now lets look at the cap situation.

    Per OTC Seattle has a little under $13.75M in cap space (no idea why this has gone down from $19.5M recently?!)

    Cut Lane

    Cut Avril once he passes his physical

    and account for the Earl, Sherm and Bennett trades and the cap now sits at $47.5M

    All of a sudden players like Allen Robinson and Andrew Norwell become a real possibility. As well as keeping some upcoming 2018 FA's.

    You'd resign McDougald to play FS (the draft is pretty weak at this position)

    You'd resign Maxwell and Shead to cover Sherms spot as well as use a mid rounder on a CB for competition

    You'd go edge early to replace Avril/Bennett and maybe FA for depth.

    These moves seem pretty ridiculous on the surface, but with the coaching moves that have occurred I think big changes to the roster are coming and this just shows what sort of stuff is possible.

    I'd struggle to listen to a valid argument where gaining this much draft capital and cap space VS keeping the players listed in trades/cuts is not a good move.

    To add to that, the above scenario would give Seattle nearly $100M in cap space in 2019 with the only current starting players needing extensions would be Duane Brown, KJ Wright, Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett.


    I also like this plan. It brings us back to younger with a potential benefit of players being hungry again. In addition, we now have some strong vets (Wagner, KJ, Clark, Jordan that you can build around on defense, and plenty of draft capital to fill holes on both sides of the ball.

    The one thing I would do is resign Sheldon Richardson even if he is a little pricey. We have not had a true 3tech DT since PC has been our HC, and I think he would be perfect in our rebuilt defense.

    I also would look to go RB in the first round with perhaps Guice as our premier RB. PC wants to get back to running the ball and he would be just what we need to accomplish that goal.
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  • Mojambo wrote:I don't think New England would give up a 3rd for Bennett. I think the sense is that Seattle is more likely to cut Bennett for salary relief and I think NE would just wait for him to hit the street.

    I'm also not sure about the valuation of Sherman at 2nd round pick, given his age, contract status and current injury.


    Very much doubt Bennett gets cut. There’s minimal cap relief in 2018 (although a good chunk in 2019, $9M or so IIRC).

    If no team bites on a trade I’d be amazed to see him be cut given his production vs cap relief.
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  • Ideas being one thing, the partner being there to trade with and seeing the same value is another, John has done one thing since being here, traded for less then this boards value is at on players.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Ideas being one thing, the partner being there to trade with and seeing the same value is another, John has done one thing since being here, traded for less then this boards value is at on players.


    Can’t think of any specific examples off the top of my head but i think it’s a case of ‘you win some you lose some’.
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  • Note - I’ve split this into a new topic so as not to take emphasis away from the thread it was originally posted in.
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  • If you are trading Sherm and Earl (not very smart IMHO) then you might as well trade Russ, Bobby, and KJ and do a total rebuild of which would also be stupid IMHO. I know some folks like these but these rosterbation threads iritate me at times.

    ....and yes, that’s MY fault for clicking on them, I know better. 8)
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  • original poster wrote:Here's a possibility to what could happen.

    I want the defense to get cheaper, I also want solid investment in the offensive line as well as some day 2 picks.

    Here's how we could do it -

    First lets look at trades for draft capital -

    Earl to Dallas for pick 19 and a 4th rounder

    Sherman to someone for a mid second rounder

    Michael Bennett to the Patriots for New Englands 3rd rounder (I know NE loves Bennett and feel it would be a good spot for him)

    Seattle's draft board now looks wildly different -

    round 1 pick 18
    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    Seattle trades pick 18 to Cleveland for pick 33, 63 and a 4th rounder. Their draft board now looks as follows -

    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    That gives them serious ammo to move up in other rounds to guarantee players they like. With that sort of capital, you could address serious needs on both sides of the ball. I'd fully expect them to a few of those picks into further 3rd rounders. The roster would look almost unrecognisable whilst still building around the 'new' core of players.

    Now lets look at the cap situation.

    Per OTC Seattle has a little under $13.75M in cap space (no idea why this has gone down from $19.5M recently?!)

    Cut Lane

    Cut Avril once he passes his physical

    and account for the Earl, Sherm and Bennett trades and the cap now sits at $47.5M

    All of a sudden players like Allen Robinson and Andrew Norwell become a real possibility. As well as keeping some upcoming 2018 FA's.

    You'd resign McDougald to play FS (the draft is pretty weak at this position)

    You'd resign Maxwell and Shead to cover Sherms spot as well as use a mid rounder on a CB for competition

    You'd go edge early to replace Avril/Bennett and maybe FA for depth.

    These moves seem pretty ridiculous on the surface, but with the coaching moves that have occurred I think big changes to the roster are coming and this just shows what sort of stuff is possible.

    I'd struggle to listen to a valid argument where gaining this much draft capital and cap space VS keeping the players listed in trades/cuts is not a good move.

    To add to that, the above scenario would give Seattle nearly $100M in cap space in 2019 with the only current starting players needing extensions would be Duane Brown, KJ Wright, Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett.


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  • Those are all reasonable, but are we half-rebuilding or something? Either keep it together or blow the damn thing up. Purgatory is the worst place to be in sports; I'm already dealing with that as a Detroit Pistons fan, I don't want my football team to do that too.
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  • original poster wrote:Here's a possibility to what could happen.

    I want the defense to get cheaper, I also want solid investment in the offensive line as well as some day 2 picks.

    Here's how we could do it -

    First lets look at trades for draft capital -

    Earl to Dallas for pick 19 and a 4th rounder

    Sherman to someone for a mid second rounder

    Michael Bennett to the Patriots for New Englands 3rd rounder (I know NE loves Bennett and feel it would be a good spot for him)

    Seattle's draft board now looks wildly different -

    round 1 pick 18
    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    Seattle trades pick 18 to Cleveland for pick 33, 63 and a 4th rounder. Their draft board now looks as follows -

    round 1 pick 19
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 2
    Round 3
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 4
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 5
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7
    Round 7

    That gives them serious ammo to move up in other rounds to guarantee players they like. With that sort of capital, you could address serious needs on both sides of the ball. I'd fully expect them to a few of those picks into further 3rd rounders. The roster would look almost unrecognisable whilst still building around the 'new' core of players.

    Now lets look at the cap situation.

    Per OTC Seattle has a little under $13.75M in cap space (no idea why this has gone down from $19.5M recently?!)

    Cut Lane

    Cut Avril once he passes his physical

    and account for the Earl, Sherm and Bennett trades and the cap now sits at $47.5M

    All of a sudden players like Allen Robinson and Andrew Norwell become a real possibility. As well as keeping some upcoming 2018 FA's.

    You'd resign McDougald to play FS (the draft is pretty weak at this position)

    You'd resign Maxwell and Shead to cover Sherms spot as well as use a mid rounder on a CB for competition

    You'd go edge early to replace Avril/Bennett and maybe FA for depth.

    These moves seem pretty ridiculous on the surface, but with the coaching moves that have occurred I think big changes to the roster are coming and this just shows what sort of stuff is possible.

    I'd struggle to listen to a valid argument where gaining this much draft capital and cap space VS keeping the players listed in trades/cuts is not a good move.

    To add to that, the above scenario would give Seattle nearly $100M in cap space in 2019 with the only current starting players needing extensions would be Duane Brown, KJ Wright, Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett.



    I like these ideas, but I would like to add Cameron Brate as a TE option.
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  • Whether or not those trades are realistic, let's say you get the 15 picks by trading away the players you suggest and trading down, etc.

    Your suggestion puts our starting defense at:

    LDE - Branden Jackson
    LDT - Jarran Reed
    RDT - Nazair Jones
    RDE - Frank Clark
    OLB - Michael Wilhoite
    MLB - Bobby Wagner
    OLB - KJ Wright
    LCB - Byron Maxwell
    RCB - Shaquill Griffin
    SS - Delano Hill
    FS - Bradley McDougald

    Which is a worse lineup than we fielded the last 8 games of the season (when Sherman got hurt) that allowed 22.8 points/game which puts them in the bottom half of the league.

    Now, assuming we draft genius and come up with 5 blue chippers. Is that going to be enough to put this defense in the top 10 again?

    And that's ignoring we'll still need to fix our OL and RB situation.

    I think we let Kam and Avril go, by choice or not. Resign KJ and Brown. Resign Graham OR S. Richardson; Resign P. Richardson OR Lockett. Keep Earl, Sherm and Bennett, but look for their replacements in the draft (again).

    We need Guard foremost, but I can see us trading down our first a couple times before grabbing one in the second.

    If the Richardsons leave, we'll get a 3rd and a 5th comp pick next year; but this year is going to be lean. We went all in and lost. We might have a 10-6 year next year while everyone adjusts, but then I think we'll be back.
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  • original poster wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Ideas being one thing, the partner being there to trade with and seeing the same value is another, John has done one thing since being here, traded for less then this boards value is at on players.


    Can’t think of any specific examples off the top of my head but i think it’s a case of ‘you win some you lose some’.


    First trade we made Josh Wilson people here were saying 1st, or second rounder, we got a 5th I think for him a few trades to Detroit happened as well, yes we were remolding the team in those days but John has rarely got really good value in a return for a player. Mostly because I think he sends the message out this player is available instead of making a statement like were going to make some changes and letting teams come to him inquiring about who he is talking about and him saying everyone for a price.
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  • Own The West wrote:Your suggestion puts our starting defense at:

    LDE - Branden Jackson
    LDT - Jarran Reed
    RDT - Nazair Jones
    RDE - Frank Clark
    OLB - Michael Wilhoite
    MLB - Bobby Wagner
    OLB - KJ Wright
    LCB - Byron Maxwell
    RCB - Shaquill Griffin
    SS - Delano Hill
    FS - Bradley McDougald

    Which is a worse lineup than we fielded the last 8 games of the season (when Sherman got hurt) that allowed 22.8 points/game which puts them in the bottom half of the league.

    Now, assuming we draft genius and come up with 5 blue chippers. Is that going to be enough to put this defense in the top 10 again?

    And that's ignoring we'll still need to fix our OL and RB situation.

    You missed the part where trading ET, Sherman and Bennett, Lane, Avril will open up cap room to bring in top free agents while acquiring more draft capital. So Jackson, Wilhoite, Hill ect won't be relied upon as starters. You're also forgetting Dion Jordan and Malik McDowell.
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  • I think you are putting a lot more faith in the GM than warrants.

    My problem with trades is the guy doing the trading.

    It won't matter how much cap space we have if it is squandered.


    We used to make fantastic drafts to offset some average to worse results on the FA side.

    Now we have average drafts and even worse FA moves.


    So getting cap space or draft capital won't help if they spend it on guys that don't really make the team better.
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:If you are trading Sherm and Earl (not very smart IMHO) then you might as well trade Russ, Bobby, and KJ and do a total rebuild of which would also be stupid IMHO. I know some folks like these but these rosterbation threads iritate me at times.

    ....and yes, that’s MY fault for clicking on them, I know better. 8)

    And I am one of those..If your going to blow up the D ..Might as well cut the head off the moneysnake
    on offense.
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  • massari wrote:You're also forgetting Dion Jordan and Malik McDowell.


    Probably because they might or might not prove to be anything.
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  • ....forget it
    Last edited by Seymour on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • McDowell and Pocic are these weird 'potential' superstars that never actually have done anything.

    Remember the guy that used to hold that title was Tanner McEvoy. (Who I still think would have been a better safety than receiver)

    Be careful what you wish for. McD doesn't exactly have amazing video either.

    Pocic has some potential but the chance of him being more than an average starter isn't great.

    For a town with bad traffic, grey weather and more than its share of rain....we sure are an optimistic bunch sometimes.
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  • massari wrote:
    Own The West wrote:Your suggestion puts our starting defense at:

    LDE - Branden Jackson
    LDT - Jarran Reed
    RDT - Nazair Jones
    RDE - Frank Clark
    OLB - Michael Wilhoite
    MLB - Bobby Wagner
    OLB - KJ Wright
    LCB - Byron Maxwell
    RCB - Shaquill Griffin
    SS - Delano Hill
    FS - Bradley McDougald

    Which is a worse lineup than we fielded the last 8 games of the season (when Sherman got hurt) that allowed 22.8 points/game which puts them in the bottom half of the league.

    Now, assuming we draft genius and come up with 5 blue chippers. Is that going to be enough to put this defense in the top 10 again?

    And that's ignoring we'll still need to fix our OL and RB situation.

    You missed the part where trading ET, Sherman and Bennett, Lane, Avril will open up cap room to bring in top free agents while acquiring more draft capital. So Jackson, Wilhoite, Hill ect won't be relied upon as starters. You're also forgetting Dion Jordan and Malik McDowell.


    I don't think it's a miss at all.

    There isn't another ET or Sherman, so you will not replace them -- and even if there were, FA would be more expensive, not less.

    And let's say Jordan and McDowell come back and play at a high level. We'll have no depth. Mike B played 84% of defensive snaps this year and S.Rich about 60%. Those are huge shoes to fill and nobody behind them.
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  • Own The West wrote:I don't think it's a miss at all.

    There isn't another ET or Sherman, so you will not replace them -- and even if there were, FA would be more expensive, not less.

    And let's say Jordan and McDowell come back and play at a high level. We'll have no depth. Mike B played 84% of defensive snaps this year and S.Rich about 60%. Those are huge shoes to fill and nobody behind them.

    ET is a free agent after next season and will likely want a lot more money if he signs with a team other than the Cowboys.

    Sherman is 30 coming off a major injury. If they can get a draft pick for him then it may be best to do it and clear the $11M in cap room.

    The proposed depth without Bennett would be:

    Clark
    McDowell
    Jordan
    1st round pick
    2nd round pick
    One or two vet free agents - Sheldon Richardson, Kony Ealy, Junior Galette, William Hayes,Tank Carradine, Alex Okafor, ect
    Last edited by massari on Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I enjoyed the post very much. I appreciate the time put into it. I just can’t see losing Earl right now, he plays with such ferocity, i don’t think we could recover from his loss.

    The other issue is HOW we have drafted of late in the earlier rounds. If we use the draft capital accumulated from trading studs like Earl and Richard Sherman to draft a guy in the first or second we could have got in the third or fourth, it would be an awful transaction. It seems to be our MO as of late...or as a long time actually.
    I do think it’s time to move Bennett and hope we can salvage something from Malik.
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  • Getting cheaper and younger on the defense is inevitable.

    Defensive players Seattle seems to hit on more often. I think the team just has a much better eye for talent on that side of the ball.

    The advantage for that approach, is that defensive rookies will make a bigger impact early in their careers. It's a bad year for needing a safety. But I don't doubt there is a handful that capture this teams' attention.

    The reality is, Seattle sent away a lot of draft capital this year and next. Injuries are becoming an annual issue for the core players. Thomas is a real tough one to let go. Also has the most capital in return.

    A lot of these core players are in their final year (Thomas, Sherman, Wright, Avril, Clark). It is unwise to sign guys to third contracts. They succumb to age and we can already see that with this group. Like it or not, Seattle is already in the nascent stages of a roster refresh. And this team doesn't have the draft capital to make that happen.

    Something will have to give. As much as looking at what the defense will look like hurts without them. The reality is that many or most of those players will be gone after this season. If we think that we have another legitimate championship run with this group -- then we should stick with them.

    If we think that the last three years pattern of the LOB missing members for the majority of the season persists into next year -- then it's probably time to rethink. I said it a couple years ago that there will come a time when the names on the jerseys don't play like the names we have grown to love. That time appears to have already arrived. Certainly Bennett had a very poor year despite adding Richardson who gobbled up most of Bennett's double teams. He was a great addition who didn't turn out great for the defense. But looking at how we played, it was clear to me that the stalwarts we've come to expect excellence from struggled.

    At this point, we are exactly at the "is it better to trade them a year early than a year too late" stage. Actually it's either trade them early or settle for mid round 2020 comp picks. Which are basically worthless for the purposes of this program.

    I'm not averse to letting guys go a year early. This is the final year for many of these guys. If we're going to get some real contribution from this year's draft class then it'll almost assuredly have to come on the defensive side.

    This roster is no longer a top 10 defense in the NFL. 11th in yards allowed, 13th in points and 20th in rushing yards allowed. For a team whose blueprint for winning requires that -- it's something that honestly should be considered.

    This is a draft where there is a lot of decent talent in the 25-90 range. It's a draft where you'd like to have 4 picks in the 2nd through 3rd rounds. We have zero. There isn't a Thomas. But there are good secondaries in this league that don't have a FS like Earl.

    The case could be made to redo this roster and to do it this year. Specifically, there is no other option to recoup draft capital if we don't trade them before this draft. So either we're going to get something going forward or we're going to hope that we will be healthy all year for the first time since 2013, and the clear decline in quality early in the year when this team was 100% healthy defensively was a mirage.
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  • Own The West wrote:Whether or not those trades are realistic, let's say you get the 15 picks by trading away the players you suggest and trading down, etc.

    Your suggestion puts our starting defense at:

    LDE - Branden Jackson
    LDT - Jarran Reed
    RDT - Nazair Jones
    RDE - Frank Clark
    OLB - Michael Wilhoite
    MLB - Bobby Wagner
    OLB - KJ Wright
    LCB - Byron Maxwell
    RCB - Shaquill Griffin
    SS - Delano Hill
    FS - Bradley McDougald


    But realistically could look like this -

    LDE - 1st round pick/Dion Jordan
    LDT - Jarran Reed/Malik McDowell
    RDT - Sheldon Richardson/Nazair Jones
    RDE - Frank Clark
    OLB - 3rd round pick
    MLB - Bobby Wagner
    OLB - KJ Wright
    LCB - Byron Maxwell/4th round pick
    RCB - Shaquill Griffin
    SS - FA/Delano Hill
    FS - Bradley McDougald


    Own The West wrote:
    I think we let Kam and Avril go, by choice or not. Resign KJ and Brown. Resign Graham OR S. Richardson; Resign P. Richardson OR Lockett. Keep Earl, Sherm and Bennett, but look for their replacements in the draft (again).


    Where's the cap room for all those signings? Not to mention getting the roster up to 53.
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  • Part of my logic behind my suggestions is my (general) hate for 3rd contracts. More often than not they turn around and ruin the depth chart/cap position.

    There are so many variables both for and against keeping Earl and Sherman, so many.

    With a win forever mentality, though, Earl and Sherm hamper that. They're getting older, they don't have the same hunger, the same chip on their shoulder, they've proved themselves (that probably applies more to Sherm than Earl).

    The way I see it you've basically got 3 options -

    Trade Earl this off season where you get good value, good cap relief but with a downgrade at the position (although we're not talking about a Steven Terrell drop here)

    Keep Earl this off season, let him play out his contract and go to whatever team he wants. No cap relief (in the literal sense), the possibility of a good comp pick in the 2020 draft

    Keep Earl this off season and either extend him now or at the end of 2018. We are then in a very real possibility where we are paying huge amounts of money for an injured player whose only contribution to the team is a hammered salary cap. Equally, though, they could extend him and he plays at a very high level until he's 35. I don't know that he won't and neither does anyone else so you have to go on assumptions and probabilities, much in the same way the front office does.


    I'll be the first to say that If I didn't see what McDougald looked like at FS there would be no way I'd even suggest the trade. And of course, this is all on the assumption that McDouglad actually would return to Seattle. I see no reason why he wouldn't, especially if it was for the starting free safety role, but there's no guarantees. There's also no guarantees that we trade Earl and McDougald goes down for the season. Then we really are in Steven Terrell 2.0 territory.

    Keep the defense young, hungry and off third contracts (excluding Bobby) is a good formula to me.
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  • I'm all for that with the exception of Earl for 19.

    I think the defense falls apart without Earl.
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  • Yeah there’s no way Sherm is getting a 2 in return and Bennett a third. Looking more like 4 best case scenario for Sherm and 5 for Bennett. Also, I think the only realistic way ET gets traded is a Top 10 pick, and I don’t think a team would do that.
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  • If we can sign BMax and Shead, I'm good with trading Sherm. No way we get a high pick, maybe a 5th at best. Whoever trades for him is taking a big risk so value is limited.
    Bennett's guarantee doesn't save us much cap relief in 18 but does in 19. Maybe he stays if no traders.
    Trade ET next year before the deadline.
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  • LudwigsDrummer wrote:If we can sign BMax and Shead, I'm good with trading Sherm. No way we get a high pick, maybe a 5th at best. Whoever trades for him is taking a big risk so value is limited.
    Bennett's guarantee doesn't save us much cap relief in 18 but does in 19. Maybe he stays if no traders.
    Trade ET next year before the deadline.


    Impossible to trade ET next year, he is a free agent after the 2018 season.
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  • lukerguy wrote:I'm all for that with the exception of Earl for 19.

    I think the defense falls apart without Earl.


    I'd wager that provided McDougald replaces him we'd be just fine.

    We were when he missed a few games this season.
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  • We don't need to wager, really, just look at the 2nd half of 2016.
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  • we lost to the Redskins on late game big plays down the field, and beat the Cards.

    I see your point that we were "fine".. But they looked terrible without him the year prior with a larger sample size.

    I'm not sure you give up earl unless you can get a top 10 pick as another post mentioned. I don't think the Hawks are going to blow it up...

    Keep in mind, with a reasonable FG kicker, they would have had 3 more wins, perhaps #2 seed.

    I do agree that they may move on from Bennett and Sherm, but I really would be surprised to see Earl go. He's a HOFer and an emotional leader still under 30.

    We'll see.
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  • lukerguy wrote:We don't need to wager, really, just look at the 2nd half of 2016.


    Struggling to see your point?

    We looked awful when Earl went down in 2016 with Steven Terrell taking the spot but looked absolutely fine when Earl went down in 2017 and McDougald covered him?
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  • Mcdougal may be average, and we may be "okay" without him, but McDougal does not change the game like this:



    and this:


    That's just 2 games this year we would have lost without Earl. We may have won WSH with Earl.

    This is just from last year, there are another 10-20 game altering plays I can find for you throughout his career.. You don't give up these players in their prime.
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  • McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick > Earl Thomas
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  • If Earl was to be extended this off season his contract may look something like this -

    4 year extension signing him through 2022

    I say he wants to be the highest paid safety in the league, so $13.5M average per year - $54M total value

    $20M signing bonus

    2018 - $5.5M base salary, $5.9M prorated bonus - cap number of $11.4M
    2019 - $6.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $10.5M
    2020 - $8.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $12.5M
    2021 - $10.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $14.5M
    2022 - $11.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $15.5M

    Considering he has missed (I think??) 9 games between 2016 and 2017 that contract scares me, somewhat.
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  • massari wrote:McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick > Earl Thomas


    So Reid at SS in this scenario?

    Reid will cost a ton and isn't much younger than Earl. Instead of having an all-world FS for our single-high defense we'd have an excellent SS and a decent FS. It's a huge risk for a small *potential* incremental gain.

    I submit that with our draft history in the first round, ET+McDougald > McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick. Both Reid (we aren't guaranteed to get him, and don't know his price tag) and the first round pick are the biggest risks in that inequality, and they are both on the RHS.

    Anyone else on the defense I can see it. But with Wagner and Thomas the likelihood by far is that we don't bring back enough value to replace them. Unless they were making outlandish contract demands, and they haven't, they are untouchable.
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  • hawk45 wrote:
    massari wrote:McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick > Earl Thomas


    So Reid at SS in this scenario?

    Reid will cost a ton and isn't much younger than Earl. Instead of having an all-world FS for our single-high defense we'd have an excellent SS and a decent FS. It's a huge risk for a small *potential* incremental gain.

    I submit that with our draft history in the first round, ET+McDougald > McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick. Both Reid (we aren't guaranteed to get him, and don't know his price tag) and the first round pick are the biggest risks in that inequality, and they are both on the RHS.

    Anyone else on the defense I can see it. But with Wagner and Thomas the likelihood by far is that we don't bring back enough value to replace them. Unless they were making outlandish contract demands, and they haven't, they are untouchable.

    Earl Thomas will likely be the highest paid Safety after he signs his next deal. His play is based off speed and he is approaching 30. There's nowhere to go but down.

    He openly wants to play for the Cowboys. Good example keeping him around?

    Earl Thomas is three years older than Reid BTW.
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  • massari wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:
    massari wrote:McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick > Earl Thomas


    So Reid at SS in this scenario?

    Reid will cost a ton and isn't much younger than Earl. Instead of having an all-world FS for our single-high defense we'd have an excellent SS and a decent FS. It's a huge risk for a small *potential* incremental gain.

    I submit that with our draft history in the first round, ET+McDougald > McDougald+Eric Reid+1st round pick. Both Reid (we aren't guaranteed to get him, and don't know his price tag) and the first round pick are the biggest risks in that inequality, and they are both on the RHS.

    Anyone else on the defense I can see it. But with Wagner and Thomas the likelihood by far is that we don't bring back enough value to replace them. Unless they were making outlandish contract demands, and they haven't, they are untouchable.

    Earl Thomas will likely be the highest paid Safety after he signs his next deal. His play is based off speed and he is approaching 30. There's nowhere to go but down.

    He openly wants to play for the Cowboys. Good example keeping him around?

    Earl Thomas is three years older than Reid BTW.


    You make some valid points. But a lot of this is contingent upon Reid signing. If you could guaranteed Reid replacement then I would be in favor, but otherwise, would be tough for me.
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  • original poster wrote:If Earl was to be extended this off season his contract may look something like this -

    4 year extension signing him through 2022

    I say he wants to be the highest paid safety in the league, so $13.5M average per year - $54M total value

    $20M signing bonus

    2018 - $5.5M base salary, $5.9M prorated bonus - cap number of $11.4M
    2019 - $6.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $10.5M
    2020 - $8.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $12.5M
    2021 - $10.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $14.5M
    2022 - $11.5M base salary, $4M prorated bonus - cap number of $15.5M

    Considering he has missed (I think??) 9 games between 2016 and 2017 that contract scares me, somewhat.


    Scares me way more than somewhat.

    If Pete and John didn't learn their lesson from handing out massive new contracts and extensions to aging vets over the past couple of years, then they never will.

    Earl's a fantastic player and leader by example. But as you noted, he's missed a LOT of games, and his age tells us that he's going to miss even more over his next contract.......especially the way he plays, flying around with no regard for his body.

    Just not prudent to give him a gigantic extension, it's just not.

    btw, I'm in total agreement with your initial plan to clear out cap space and add picks.........except I keep Sherman next year. IMO his injury was fluke, and on the last year of his deal? He should come in to camp healthy and ready to prove he has another contract in his career.
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  • Yeah I wouldn’t be against Sherm coming back next year. I’m in two minds. We all know what Pete and co can do at DB, maybe they strike on another corner and we’ll be set at the position for a good few years with Griffin on the other side.

    His play has never been about his speed, it’s been about his football smarts which aren’t going to deteriorate with age.
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  • original poster wrote:Yeah I wouldn’t be against Sherm coming back next year. I’m in two minds. We all know what Pete and co can do at DB, maybe they strike on another corner and we’ll be set at the position for a good few years with Griffin on the other side.

    His play has never been about his speed, it’s been about his football smarts which aren’t going to deteriorate with age.


    Trade Sherman and Bennett to Buffalo for Poyer and they're #22 first round draft pick. Use it to pick up Denzel Ward or Levi Wallace.
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  • At least they’d be out of the NFC!
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  • I know this is probably unpopular but what could we get for KJ Wright?
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  • original poster wrote:At least they’d be out of the NFC!


    Exactly, if you trade a decent player, get them out of your division, and ideally into the AFC.
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  • You guys are ridiculously over-valuing players. Especially guys like Sherman who are already over the hill as far as age is concerned at his position and that's not even factoring in his injury. He will begin the season on PUP and may never regain form... No way in hell do the Seahawks manage a 2nd rounder from that.
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  • original poster wrote:Yeah I wouldn’t be against Sherm coming back next year. I’m in two minds. We all know what Pete and co can do at DB, maybe they strike on another corner and we’ll be set at the position for a good few years with Griffin on the other side.

    His play has never been about his speed, it’s been about his football smarts which aren’t going to deteriorate with age.


    You might not have a choice.

    IMO your 2nd round trade value is probably being very optimistic. If we couldn't get a first rounder for Sherman last off season fully healthy with two full years left on his deal..............why do you think we can get a 2nd rounder for him now coming off a major achilles rupture?

    My point is I'm fine with keeping Sherman for his final year if there's no serious trade offers and we can stock up on picks by trading Earl and Bennett.
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