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RB movements and adjustments under Schottenheimer and Solari

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  • Hard to say which rb I like the best
    I really like Kerryon, Josh Adams, Michel, and esp Penny and Jones
    Guice doesnt impress me
    If we trade w Cleveland and pick up 3-1, then I think all of the above will be available (maybe not Penny and Jones)
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  • Watching this Jacksonville offense is such a thing of beauty. I've missed it for a long time. Brady isn't even getting much time on the field. The Pats know that Fournette is getting the ball and they can't stop it. On one of those 3rd and 1 plays, Fournette tried to pump up the croud.

    Brady is going down here and the remaining QBs will be former journeymen and no names.

    This is awesome.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Watching this Jacksonville offense is such a thing of beauty. I've missed it for a long time. Brady isn't even getting much time on the field. The Pats know that Fournette is getting the ball and they can't stop it. On one of those 3rd and 1 plays, Fournette tried to pump up the croud.

    Brady is going down here and the remaining QBs will be former journeymen and no names.

    This is awesome.


    So want to see the Jaguar and Vikings superbowl.

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  • Rashaad Penny is killing it in the senior bowl right now. Lots of stuff about him having trouble in practice this week, but it sure as hell hasn't shown up on the field. He's the best player out there today.
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  • This QB for the South is one crafty SOB. Lauletta or something like that.
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  • Ballage had an interesting game too. Not sure where he goes in the draft, but he's an interesting prospect. He was money in pass protections drills in practice, I heard. That counts. His combine will be one to keep an eye on, but his tape can show indecision and pad pevel issues. Still enough there to keep an eye on though.

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  • Lions? Communist bastids...Rawls is probably going to go home. They should be happy with that. Lol



    If both Penny and Michel are there in the seconf round I don't really know what to do though. Both are going to have really nice combine numbers.
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  • Can't even listen to it the audio is so bad.
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  • Penny didn’t look great in practice but showed up when it was game time. There are plenty of players who excel during practice only to disappear at game time. It would be a nice change to have someone who excels when it counts the most.
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  • I think I have Michel as my number 2 RB right now and pretty clearly. Explosive, powerful, AND polished overall, he can start for somebody right away. I think he’s just a step shy of Barkley.

    Still high on Perry though. Still reminds me of a bigger version of Harvin. I think he’s dangerous in a lot of ways. Hopefully not for a team's locker room though...

    I really try to like Guice and try to see what everyone else is seeing, but all I see is Rawls. Doesn't have a single physical trait that stands out, just like Rawls. Also tries to run like he's 230 like Rawls and all that's going to do is get him hurt, also like Rawls. He proba ly has better vision than Rawls, but either way, I wouldn't touch Guice. We already have him basically and he'll be injured a lot.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that Pete has his eye on Reggie Bush....errra Ronald Jones. I think he wants that explosive toy and knows he can't depend on Procise. McKissic is fine and all, but he's kind of an off brand that you might settle for.

    We need some frickin draft picks.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:I find the title of this vid sort of amusing. I remember people telling me how fast McCaffrey was and I said, "Yeah...probably runs a 4.5 at the combine." It's funny how people automatically think things that aren't true just because of some profile of smaller backs and all that. Love is also a 4.5 flat guy, I'm pretty sure. Not a tackle breaker at the next level, like McCaffrey. He'll be overdrafted like McCaffrey too.

    As a RB you have to be exceptional at something or have an overall combination that's sufficient. LeSean McCoy is an example of a kid who was smallish, 4.6 40, not very strong, but you put on the tape and he just has impeccable timing and natural know how. You have guys who are burners. You have guys who can run people over, guys who are really quick, but you have to have something that is really elite or an overall combination. Just not seeing it with Love...just like McCaffrey. 4th round would be fair return on investment in sort of a "safe" bet where you have little chance of getting more than you bargained for. Anything beyond that 4th round and you have reached. Carolina reached. He's not a top end NFL RB.



    Meh, I think McAffery was over drafted but I'm not sure Carolina "reached" all that much. They knew they weren't getting a bell cow RB, but they also envisioned pairing him with an aging Stewart and splitting the touches. McAffery is a do it all back that will split out wide, and the Panthers wanted that. They wanted Cam to be able to take an easy dump off or safety valve and have the RB turn it into 20 yards.

    I see Love the same way. He's more of a RB/WR that fits into the backfield. Love would be a great change of pace back paired with Carson, but we already have that on our squad in McKissic (although Love is bigger and stronger). It wouldn't be worth the draft capital to spend on Love, but there is a spot for him.

    Whoever we get needs to have more breakaway speed than Carson. I like what Carson does, but he's not going to be much of a chunk runner, he's going to grind but not get much more than 15 yards all that often.
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  • That's fair. I do think that if you want a more explosive and quick player that's not really a bell cow then you gotta go with Jones in this draft.

    The problem I'm having is that you also have guys like Michel and Penny who can take it to the house just as well, but they are potential 220 pound feature type guys or at least guys that you can roll with a great 1-2.

    Freeman even fits that mold and on that note, after reviewing his 2017 vs games I think I have underrated Freeman.

    Still, the argument can be made for guys like Jones and Love that you really can't just have one back anymore anyway.
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  • Something of note: Bo Scarbrough is basically Henry all over again and no one is talking about him. One reason is probably his injury history, but the other part is that this draft has some damn good backs.
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  • I would so love to see Penny in a Hawks uniform. Penny wise and pound foolish :irishdrinkers:
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  • If Davis is retained, that gives us Carson as a starter, Davis as a backup, and Prosise and a slight maybe as a 3rd down back, which really isn't even necessary with Carson there. It got me thinking though, with Carson and Davis, we're going to be looking for that home run threat that can really play in the passing game like Pete wanted Prosise to be.

    I still keep coming back to Michel, Perry, Jones II, and Freeman. One or more of them has to be a target. Maybe this was in the back of my head the whole time I've been looking. Maybe not.


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  • If Davis isn't retained I'm not sure that Chubb isn't on the table later. He's compared to Gurley, but he's not as agile, I don't think, and he can be slow footed. Like Gurley, however, if you give him a crease and can get him going N/S then he's surprisingly fast and explosive. Just don't ask him to do a lot of juking and creating on his own. He's not what you would call "sudden."

    I still seriously hope someone is stupid enough to take Guice before the Hawks pick just to make sure that mistake doesn't happen. I still see Rawls, albeit without the purse snatching.
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  • McKissic isn't going anywhere, I would think Prosise is going to have his role changed to more a pure receiver anyway. Carson may still be a year away to being 100 percent, able to play probably back to form doubtful. I also don't think we take a back until like the third round with some trades.

    So a possible Carson, and if we resign Davis McKissic should be a lock and Prosise in between injuries. Which is why McKissic isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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  • Guice from LSU is a beast. If he's available, he would be worth a look, especially if they trade down and he's still there in the 2nd or even very late in the 1st.
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  • Too bad they didn’t get rid of Chad Morton as rb coach. Bringing Sherm Smith back would be an upgrade.
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  • Locks- Rookie (1st-3rd rd), Vet ($2-5M APY)
    Probably- McKissic, rookie ((4th-7th rd)
    Possibly- Davis and Carson
    Doubtful- Rawls and Prosise

    I'm facinated with Royce Freeman right now, they guy avoids tackelers soo well, he looks to have amazing vision and a natural feel. If he runs 4.5-4.6 he should be available outside the 1st rd.
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  • I see no reason to invest big at running back while we have Carson, unless someone can show me he has some bone-strength deficiency that suddenly appeared last year.

    The general solution to problems proposed here seems to be "get a free agent" or "draft someone" when often the answer is that we had the guy but he got hurt. All we have to do is get him back from injury, and by all accounts Carson will be fine to start camp.
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  • I would agree that Carson is the guy game 1 next year, but he's still just one guy. Davis is fine, but he's also not under contract while there are some real gems in this draft. You gotta have two backs these days.
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  • Mayock has now likened Michel to Kamara, which isn't good, from a draft perspective for the Hawks.

    Been trying to finds some diamonds in the rough and there aren't a lot of them.

    Lavon Coleman might ne one though. He looked a lot better in '16 than 17 and might evem go undrafted. Seems like a good camp candidate to recapture previous form.

    I want to like Chris Warren, but he's a UDFA that just doesn't run like someone you'd draft. He needs to become an hback and put more effort into blocking and receiving.

    I'm not sure Ballage qualifies as under the radar anymore.
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  • lobohawk wrote:I may be a homer, but I'd love to see what they could do with Jaylen Samuels from NC State. Played TE, RB, Slot, FB at 5'11'' and 223lbs. Could see him putting on 10-15 lbs if necessary. If they get lucky, might see him in mid rounds cause he doesn't really fit a specific mold for every team and I'll take Walter's projection with a grain of salt.

    Draft profile
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    Jaylen Samuels, FB, N.C. State
    Height: 5-11. Weight: 223.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
    Projected Round (2018): 2-3.

    1/13/18: Samuels totaled 76 receptions for 597 yards and four touchdowns in 2017. On the ground, he averaged 5.2 yards per carry for 403 yards and 12 touchdowns. Samuels accepted an invitation to participate in the Senior Bowl.

    Samuels is a unique prospect for the next level. The senior is listed as a tight end, plays some H-back, takes carries out of the backfield, and also gets split out wide. In speaking with scouts, they like Samuels, and some think that his best fit would come as a third-down running back. They think he has really good hands, is a nice receiver, and could also run the rock in those situations. They think that Samuels could be tried as a fullback as well. Samuels is a good route-runner with subtle quickness and athleticism that makes him a mismatch weapon. Samuels could be a steal as a passing weapon on Day 2.


    He's a hell of a football player. He's not quite big enough for FB and he's not quite feature back material either though. I like him a lot, but I think he needs to be on a passing team as a 3rd down back that also plays a lot of slot. The Pats will be all over him, I'd imagine.
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  • Ok so I think I found that sleeper I was looking for. Love the way he slides laterally between gaps and stays square. Runs with a lot of pop in those shoulders and has a good stiff arm too. Good vision and made even better with that awesome lateral jump cut.

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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Ok so I think I found that sleeper I was looking for. Love the way he slides laterally between gaps and stays square. Runs with a lot of pop in those shoulders and has a good stiff arm too. Good vision and made even better with that awesome lateral jump cut.



    Not bad.

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  • THUS FAR this is the only one I've found that fits the bill of a Carson type pickup in terms of value for the round taken. The ability is there obviously, but not the bigtime production so he's likely not going to be on too many teams' radar with all the other backs that they're drooling over.
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  • UDFA. This kid would probably hate the idea, but I always loved FBs where it's hard to justify taking them off the field. FBs that have wheels, can catch, punish defenders, etc. Basically the whole shabang like Marcel Reece. I think it would take Nall a year or so on the PS and if you can put 10 pounds on him, at 6'2 247 (with added 10 pounds) you're looking at a potential for a Mike Alstott or Leonard Weaver type FB that can catch and also pitch in as a Move TE. You can also give him some carries too, but with this kid's lack of quickness and footwork, he's going to have to remain versatile. I can think of quite a few reasons you want him on your team though. Sort of an all around player that likes the physical part of the game, but can take off with speed in the open field.

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  • Chris Warren's kid is another candidate for that role. He's even bigger than Nall at 6'4 250 (Nall is 6'2 237). I'm not sure he likes contact quite as much as Nall, but if you watch some of the vs vids, that Texas....almost high school basic offense makes him lead block for the QB quite a bit. He'll also be a UDFA.

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  • Odd how much this kid reminds me of Mike Davis. He's a slasher with some balance on contact. Lots of teams will probably notice him scouting Shaquem Griffin. Probably another UDFA candidate in this deep draft through.

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  • So I'm not 100% sure what type of RB Shotts/Solari prefer, but I agree when healthy Carson is our #1 back. and we keep Davis & Mckissic in the stable. I'm done with Prosise, dude has loads of talent, but he is no where near dependable, and we can't rely on him being there for a deep playoff run. I imagine the draft will be no different then most every year and we trade down to recoup that 2nd & 3rd rd pick, which is fine by me cause I don't think Guice is a 1st rd talent, like Barkley (please don't end up in SF) which would give every team in our division ridiculous RB talents! I'm sure PC/JS will have their targets, if they go RB 2nd/3rd rd I like Penny or Freeman paired with Carson a lot, let Carson bust them in the mouth, and wear the Dline down the 1st half with either Penny or Freeman running loose the 2nd half to close out games. I also like Ballage but he is very similar to Carson imo. depending what happens with trade downs, I could see us going Dline/Oline in the 2nd, and with this draft class being loaded with RB talent snagging their guy 3rd-5th rd. I expect good things this year, Bevell & Cable were terrible for long time, I don't believe I'm alone when I say Lynch in his prime covered a lot of their inefficiencies for years, and between Bevell's horrible play calling can't even figure out how to use a mismatch monster like Graham or know what frickin screen pass is to utilize the center of the field, and yes I realize Wilson's height effects that some, but Cable also never truly finding any OL studs (so many wasted draft picks) and trying to convert Dlinemen to Olinemen or basketball players to starting LT cost us dearly when we making SB runs, so I'm beyond thrilled they are gone!
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  • austinslater25 wrote:Prosise is going to have a huge role IF he can stay healthy.


    If...... They need to move on from Prosise.
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  • Vesuve wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:Prosise is going to have a huge role IF he can stay healthy.


    If...... They need to move on from Prosise.


    They need to move him to receiver and be done with it.
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  • If Carson is our #1 RB next year we are at best an 8 win team.
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  • ImTheScientist wrote:If Carson is our #1 RB next year we are at best an 8 win team.


    Well since your predictions are normally wrong we can expect a great season then :)
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  • ImTheScientist wrote:If Carson is our #1 RB next year we are at best an 8 win team.



    I don't believe for a second he will be, personally. 1B maybe, but not #1.
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  • ImTheScientist wrote:If Carson is our #1 RB next year we are at best an 8 win team.



    You are going to have to explain how you come up with that number of wins if Carson is our lead RB? First off Carson was just starting to show his worth when he was finally getting a solid volume of runs per game, after Pete finally figured out he was our guy, and Lacey & Rawls were not productive, he then went down to injury. If Carson comes back healthy, we keep Davis in the stable, and we draft a solid prospect to push the competition then that is not the reason we go 8-8. Our success next season will greatly depend on if Solari can fix the mess of an OL Cable created, and how Sherman comes back from injury, and if we are able to fill the gapping holes left by Chancellor & Avril. Love the of the off the cuff comment though.
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  • We could draft any back in this draft not named Barkley, and Carson will still start. Even if we got Michel he's still going to be the guy. Carson does everything right...to the letter. We had left him to pass block even high profile DEs one on one and he does as well as an OL. He's an insanely good pass blocker and that can't be understated.

    It's not as if he's just some try hard do right player though. His explosion index is top notch in terms of vert and long jump as well as being strong as an ox. His 40 of 4.58 isn't burner status, but it's better than Davis, Mckissic, and Rawls who are all in the 4.6s. Only Prosise is sub 4.5. Pre-draft, I was lookinh for a bruiser RB and Carson stuck out like a sore thumb because of his high SPARQ score that was nearly as good as Kamara, which is saying something. The only thing Carson didn't have was bigtime college production due to a broken thumb carpal as a senior.

    We could sign Hyde and Carson will still start. We could draft Michel or Jones and Carson will still start. Carson has high efficiency in all 3 facets of being a running back and doesn't fumble.

    You might ask why we need another back? But the easy answer is we need two for redundancy.
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  • Saw that. I wonder if he would take a #2 role and severe paycut to return home (Lacey, WA).

    Always liked him.

    Of course, Freeman in the draft is a lot like him, albeit a little less polished as a pure runner.
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  • I didn't know he was from Lacey, I always thought he was from a military family out of Fort Lewis :)
    I wonder if he went to North Thurston? I lived down in Lacey for a few years at middle school.
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  • Timberline High is what it looks like. That area produced a lot of good running backs. Tumwater always seemed to have some really fast SOBs in the mid 90s.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Fort Lewis' own Jonathon Stewart is now available. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... an-stewart



    Egh I don't think Stewart offers us anything we don't already have in Carson & Davis. I really hope we recover some draft picks and are able to pickup another stud in the 3rd-5th rd. Draft or FA either way they atleast add one more RB for depth & competition. Really liking the idea of either Penny or Freeman combined with Carson as a 1/2 punch!
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  • Yeah I don't think we go with any free agents this year and that probably includes Davis, but maybe not.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Yeah I don't think we go with any free agents this year and that probably includes Davis, but maybe not.



    Really? Imo I thought Davis was solid, and should be cheap. He would provide great competition to push whatever rookie they bring in?
    I was a huge fan of when Pete took over and had ComPete Wednsday and you actually had to earn PT. Was fun to watch on Sunday's when guys were playing like they had a hot poker up their back side. If you missed block or tackle, or fumbled it was next man up.
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  • They need to be picky about free agency. Not only do they have very little cap, but they can lose some of their comp picks in 2019. Clayton talks about it all the time.
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  • 12forlife wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Yeah I don't think we go with any free agents this year and that probably includes Davis, but maybe not.



    Really? Imo I thought Davis was solid, and should be cheap. He would provide great competition to push whatever rookie they bring in?
    I was a huge fan of when Pete took over and had ComPete Wednsday and you actually had to earn PT. Was fun to watch on Sunday's when guys were playing like they had a hot poker up their back side. If you missed block or tackle, or fumbled it was next man up.

    I like Davis too. He's apparently hitting the weights really hard already, which Carson commented about, and Davis replied something to the effect that they could both look big and physical next year. Almost ad if he's coming back.

    The reason why I say that he might not is that he would cost roughly 2 million to retain him unless they let him hit FA.
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  • https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... surements/


    Some REALLY interesting measurements at the combine.

    Barkley came in at 233 and Guice at 224. Both put on a lot of weight. Michel dropped weight, Penny was exactly as advertised. John Kelly was at 216, which is intriguing. Ballage was shorter than expected.

    All around just some interesting stuff here. How much will added or dropped weight affect how they run? We'll see.
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