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Mike Solari is back as Offensive Line Coach

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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:I'm intrigued to see what he does with Fant.


    He could look to upgrade him with an actual football player. It'll be interesting what happens to Cable's projects going forward.
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  • Seanhawk wrote:
    Sox-n-Hawks wrote:I'm intrigued to see what he does with Fant.


    He could look to upgrade him with an actual football player. It'll be interesting what happens to Cable's projects going forward.


    We can only hope!
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  • This is kind of cool.

    Pete Carroll and Mike Solari both worked at assistant coaches under Head Coach George Seifert with the 49ers in '95 and '96, while Ken Norton Jr. was a first team All-Pro MLB.

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  • Nice Picture Hawk Nation. Rad.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:This is kind of cool.

    Pete Carroll and Mike Solari both worked at assistant coaches under Head Coach George Seifert with the 49ers in '95 and '96,



    It is the opposite of cool. It shows that he is just calling one of his buddies and not the best coach available.
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  • Solidifies feeling that Schottenheimer was 1st choice after all.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:This is kind of cool.

    Pete Carroll and Mike Solari both worked at assistant coaches under Head Coach George Seifert with the 49ers in '95 and '96,



    It is the opposite of cool. It shows that he is just calling one of his buddies and not the best coach available.


    Not sure if they were "buddies," but there is a track record of success. When you have worked with someone, it gives you more insight into their skill level.
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  • Seanhawk wrote:
    Sox-n-Hawks wrote:I'm intrigued to see what he does with Fant.


    He could look to upgrade him with an actual football player. It'll be interesting what happens to Cable's projects going forward.


    Trade Cable's project to Raiders for picks?

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  • Nah. I actually this is a fairly solid hire. Solari's been around the block. Think about it -- the dude's been coaching NFL offensive lines since 1981 (37 years). He's steeped in both man and zone blocking principles. He's coached offensive lines that have paved the way for guys like Herschel Walker in Dallas ... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson in Kansas City ... and Frank Gore with the 49ers.

    He knows and has worked with Carroll and with Schottenheimer's dad, so there is a familiarity there in knowing exactly what it is those guys are looking for. Again, chemistry and being on the same page I think goes a long ways.

    First gut reaction -- again, I like this hire. We'll see once things really get going, but on the surface, I like the hire of Solari. Definitely better than Cable IMO.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:Nah. I actually this is a fairly solid hire. Solari's been around the block. Think about it -- the dude's been coaching NFL offensive lines since 1981 (37 years). He's steeped in both man and zone blocking principles. He's coached offensive lines that have paved the way for guys like Herschel Walker in Dallas ... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson in Kansas City ... and Frank Gore with the 49ers.

    He knows and has worked with Carroll and with Schottenheimer's dad, so there is a familiarity there in knowing exactly what it is those guys are looking for. Again, chemistry and being on the same page I think goes a long ways.

    First gut reaction -- again, I like this hire. We'll see once things really get going, but on the surface, I like the hire of Solari. Definitely better than Cable IMO.


    This may be the most balanced explanation I've seen anywhere.
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  • Don't know much about him but like that the hired a rugged old line coach to get these whipper snappers into shape. At 62, I wonder if he still has the fire in him though. There is a lot of work that needs to be done this off season. More excited about this hire than Schotti though. The more coaches that get signed, the more excited I am about next season. Win or lose, I like that there is change happening.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:Not sure if they were "buddies," but there is a track record of success. When you have worked with someone, it gives you more insight into their skill level.



    Track record of success? Having his lines ranking 23rd or lower in pass pro?
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  • I suppose he won't be worse than Cable. Which I guess means that our standards are really low. Like hey, if we're ranked 20th instead of dead last, Great!!

    I'm literally in the mode of praying for success. I've never felt this uncertain about the team in recent years. Hope these hires are the right ones
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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:Nah. I actually this is a fairly solid hire. Solari's been around the block. Think about it -- the dude's been coaching NFL offensive lines since 1981 (37 years). He's steeped in both man and zone blocking principles. He's coached offensive lines that have paved the way for guys like Herschel Walker in Dallas ... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson in Kansas City ... and Frank Gore with the 49ers.

    He knows and has worked with Carroll and with Schottenheimer's dad, so there is a familiarity there in knowing exactly what it is those guys are looking for. Again, chemistry and being on the same page I think goes a long ways.

    First gut reaction -- again, I like this hire. We'll see once things really get going, but on the surface, I like the hire of Solari. Definitely better than Cable IMO.


    This may be the most balanced explanation I've seen anywhere.


    Dude, yesterday I made the comment (in light of what Ray Roberts said) that what this team REALLY needs ... is to bring back a bit of what it had when Howard Mudd was coaching offensive line. In Solari, I think the Hawks honestly may have recaptured a bit of that. He KNOWS NFL Offensive Line Principles, having been around some of the very best in the game. The dude's coached some of the best linemen in the game (including Anthony Munoz). Remember, what was it that Jim Mora wanted? What was it that he valued? He wanted "dirt bags". He wanted offensive linemen who were "dirt bags", that had that real nasty quality to them. Solari was the guy Mora hand picked as Offensive Line coach ... AND as Danny O'Neil noted, Solari was one of the coaches that Carroll tried to retain. On the surface, I like this hire. I like it A LOT!
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  • sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Not sure if they were "buddies," but there is a track record of success. When you have worked with someone, it gives you more insight into their skill level.



    Track record of success? Having his lines ranking 23rd or lower in pass pro?


    Where are you getting this from? Solari has coached many great offensive lines over the years (Chiefs, 49ers, etc.). His most recent offensive lines with the Giants were talent deficient but still ranked in the Top 10 in pass protection (#2 DVOA in 2016, #10 DVOA in 2017).
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  • Well like most things it's associations, looking at the hiring if this was a family in the Ozarks we would be saying they married their sister or brother. These guys all have ties going back a long way and Solari was on Brians dads staff.
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  • MrThortan wrote:Don't know much about him but like that the hired a rugged old line coach to get these whipper snappers into shape. At 62, I wonder if he still has the fire in him though. There is a lot of work that needs to be done this off season. More excited about this hire than Schotti though. The more coaches that get signed, the more excited I am about next season. Win or lose, I like that there is change happening.


    I would say to be still coaching at 62 he still has tons of fire. Unless he's a terrible steward of his money, there's no way he couldn't retire from coaching in the NFL after 30+ years. He must love what he's doing.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:
    Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:Nah. I actually this is a fairly solid hire. Solari's been around the block. Think about it -- the dude's been coaching NFL offensive lines since 1981 (37 years). He's steeped in both man and zone blocking principles. He's coached offensive lines that have paved the way for guys like Herschel Walker in Dallas ... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson in Kansas City ... and Frank Gore with the 49ers.

    He knows and has worked with Carroll and with Schottenheimer's dad, so there is a familiarity there in knowing exactly what it is those guys are looking for. Again, chemistry and being on the same page I think goes a long ways.

    First gut reaction -- again, I like this hire. We'll see once things really get going, but on the surface, I like the hire of Solari. Definitely better than Cable IMO.


    This may be the most balanced explanation I've seen anywhere.


    Dude, yesterday I made the comment (in light of what Ray Roberts said) that what this team REALLY needs ... is to bring back a bit of what it had when Howard Mudd was coaching offensive line. In Solari, I think the Hawks honestly may have recaptured a bit of that. He KNOWS NFL Offensive Line Principles, having been around some of the very best in the game. The dude's coached some of the best linemen in the game (including Anthony Munoz). Remember, what was it that Jim Mora wanted? What was it that he valued? He wanted "dirt bags". He wanted offensive linemen who were "dirt bags", that had that real nasty quality to them. Solari was the guy Mora hand picked as Offensive Line coach ... AND as Danny O'Neil noted, Solari was one of the coaches that Carroll tried to retain. On the surface, I like this hire. I like it A LOT!


    It makes a lot of sense. It wouldn't surprise me to see a hefty roster churn either.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:Solari can coach both man and zone blocking, which is great. I want the line to be fundamentally sound, tough, and diverse!


    Feel the same way!! :ditto: :ditto: :ditto:
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  • Fantastic hire on the surface of it.

    I believe he can teach both man and zone blocking. Be interesting to see what kind of blocking they go with, I'd say this line is more suited to man.

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  • As a comparison I looked up offensive ranks and sack percentage of both Cable and Solari throughout their entire careers.
    2017's league average for sack percentage is 6.4%.

    Solari's lines in his 18 years as an NFL O-Line coach have had a sack percentage above 6.4% 7 times times (Every year in SF, 2001 with KC, and 2008 with Sea).

    Cable's lines in his 10 years as an NFL O-line coach have had a sack percentage above 6.4% all ten years.

    Based on those numbers I'd say it's and upgrade.

    Solari vs Cable.xlsx
    Excel file, because I'm bored at work.
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  • JGreen79 wrote:As a comparison I looked up offensive ranks and sack percentage of both Cable and Solari throughout their entire careers.
    2017's league average for sack percentage is 6.4%.

    Solari's lines in his 18 years as an NFL O-Line coach have had a sack percentage above 6.4% 7 times times (Every year in SF, 2001 with KC, and 2008 with Sea).

    Cable's lines in his 10 years as an NFL O-line coach have had a sack percentage above 6.4% all ten years.

    Based on those numbers I'd say it's and upgrade.

    Solari vs Cable.xlsx


    And Cable is an unstable douche bag.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote: Anyone who actually watched those Whiner offensive lines knows how good they were upfront with Solari as coach.


    Solari could very well be a great hire for the Hawks, but this is literally the first time I've seen anyone argue that their run game was good during that stretch because Solari was the O-line coach. I think that was pretty clearly much more of a right-place-right-time situation for him.

    Instead, what gets rightly talked about to explain those years for the 9ers are four other factors:

    1) An OC/Run game Coordinator in Greg Roman who dramatically improved the running attacks at all three of his NFL stops regardless of who he was surrounded by (took the 9ers to #1, then took the Bills to #1, and last year just took the Ravens from #28 to #11).

    2) A future Hall of Fame running back, running behind...

    3) a very good offensive line (three first round picks, four pro-bowlers)

    4) A running QB who inflated the rushing stats for that team even more.

    Again, none of this is knock on Solari, and he was definitely there for those years, but he really has never been the story of the 9ers rushing attack over those years. To attribute that to Solari you have to ignore that Roman has done that everywhere, and the talent that really infused that group.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Not sure if they were "buddies," but there is a track record of success. When you have worked with someone, it gives you more insight into their skill level.



    Track record of success? Having his lines ranking 23rd or lower in pass pro?


    Where are you getting this from?



    It was on the first page of this very topic. Did you read the other posts? One of the other posters posted a chart of all his lines and how poor they are.
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  • Watching this line be historically bad, listening to Roberts talk about how Cable coaches these guys, I am absolutely thrilled by this hire. Cable was lost after the cut block rule change and floundering. I cant wait to see the changes.
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  • I'm good with this hire from what I've gathered. I heard Bell on 950 this morning saying the blocking scheme absolutely will change. He uses more zone concepts combined with man power blocking and prefers big mauler guards on the interior. That could mean the end of Ifedi (moving to guard) since he has more length and has a tough time with short power DT's. Ifedi is a bit of a tweener, so we'll see what happens with him. Pocic is another that doesn't quite fit that criteria, but if he adds the weight may be able to get there. Time will tell, but finding guards is easier than tackles and possibly Fant holds the RT position with some improvement over Ifedi.
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  • And his name isn't Cable, so right away it's a good thing. Love this hire.
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  • Saw on the news this morning, Walter Jones gave a big thumbs up to Solari.

    Solari was here the last 2 years of Walt's career. '08-'09

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  • sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Not sure if they were "buddies," but there is a track record of success. When you have worked with someone, it gives you more insight into their skill level.



    Track record of success? Having his lines ranking 23rd or lower in pass pro?


    Where are you getting this from?



    It was on the first page of this very topic. Did you read the other posts? One of the other posters posted a chart of all his lines and how poor they are.


    You decided to delete this part of my quote, so I will post it here for you to give it a chance to sink in. :2thumbs:

    "Solari has coached many great offensive lines over the years (Chiefs, 49ers, etc.). His most recent offensive lines with the Giants were talent deficient but still ranked in the Top 10 in pass protection (#2 DVOA in 2016, #10 DVOA in 2017)."
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  • So does Solari take Cable’s other title as Asst. HC or will that go to Norton?
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote: Anyone who actually watched those Whiner offensive lines knows how good they were upfront with Solari as coach.


    Solari could very well be a great hire for the Hawks, but this is literally the first time I've seen anyone argue that their run game was good during that stretch because Solari was the O-line coach. I think that was pretty clearly much more of a right-place-right-time situation for him.

    Instead, what gets rightly talked about to explain those years for the 9ers are four other factors:

    1) An OC/Run game Coordinator in Greg Roman who dramatically improved the running attacks at all three of his NFL stops regardless of who he was surrounded by (took the 9ers to #1, then took the Bills to #1, and last year just took the Ravens from #28 to #11).

    2) A future Hall of Fame running back, running behind...

    3) a very good offensive line (three first round picks, four pro-bowlers)

    4) A running QB who inflated the rushing stats for that team even more.

    Again, none of this is knock on Solari, and he was definitely there for those years, but he really has never been the story of the 9ers rushing attack over those years. To attribute that to Solari you have to ignore that Roman has done that everywhere, and the talent that really infused that group.


    So the offensive line coach deserves NO CREDIT for the performance of the offensive line? :roll:

    So. Much. Salt.
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  • He's better than Cable. He'll run a power zone blocking system instead of just a regular zone blocking system. He also has a better eye for talent, as he was a part of building come good O-lines at his other stops. Of the Norton, Schottenheimer, and Solari hires, this one is the one I am most optimistic about.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:

    Track record of success? Having his lines ranking 23rd or lower in pass pro?


    Where are you getting this from?



    It was on the first page of this very topic. Did you read the other posts? One of the other posters posted a chart of all his lines and how poor they are.


    You decided to delete this part of my quote, so I will post it here for you to give it a chance to sink in. :2thumbs:

    "



    Go look at the chart posted on the first page sport.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    Where are you getting this from?



    It was on the first page of this very topic. Did you read the other posts? One of the other posters posted a chart of all his lines and how poor they are.


    You decided to delete this part of my quote, so I will post it here for you to give it a chance to sink in. :2thumbs:

    "



    Go look at the chart posted on the first page sport.


    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:

    It was on the first page of this very topic. Did you read the other posts? One of the other posters posted a chart of all his lines and how poor they are.


    You decided to delete this part of my quote, so I will post it here for you to give it a chance to sink in. :2thumbs:

    "



    Go look at the chart posted on the first page sport.


    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.
    \

    Very interesting. Those very same FO rankings are the ones you chose to minimize and discredit when I presented them on Cable just a few months ago. :roll:
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  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    You decided to delete this part of my quote, so I will post it here for you to give it a chance to sink in. :2thumbs:

    "



    Go look at the chart posted on the first page sport.


    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.
    \

    Very interesting. Those very same FO rankings are the ones you chose to minimize and discredit when I presented them on Cable just a few months ago. :roll:


    I don't remember that, at all. Do you have a link or quote to support that assertion?
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:

    Go look at the chart posted on the first page sport.


    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.
    \

    Very interesting. Those very same FO rankings are the ones you chose to minimize and discredit when I presented them on Cable just a few months ago. :roll:


    I don't remember that, at all. Do you have a link or quote to support that assertion?


    Nope, you asked in a PM and I gave you the links and numbers, and you know it.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:

    It was on the first page of this very topic. Did you read the other posts? One of the other posters posted a chart of all his lines and how poor they are.


    You decided to delete this part of my quote, so I will post it here for you to give it a chance to sink in. :2thumbs:

    "



    Go look at the chart posted on the first page sport.


    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.



    So you picked out 2 data points from a chart that shows 20 data points? Go look at the chart on the first page of this topic, it is 20 posts down. Then after looking at those data points then formulate a response, then we can continue to have a conversation with the same numbers.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.
    \

    Very interesting. Those very same FO rankings are the ones you chose to minimize and discredit when I presented them on Cable just a few months ago. :roll:


    I don't remember that, at all. Do you have a link or quote to support that assertion?


    Nope, you asked in a PM and I gave you the links and numbers, and you know it.


    I have no clue what you are talking about. But I give you permission to re-post any PM of mine "minimizing and discrediting [the FO rankings]."
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  • sdog1981 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    #2 in pass pro in 2016.
    #10 in pass pro in 2017.

    Sport.



    So you picked out 2 data points from a chart that shows 20 data points? Go look at the chart on the first page of this topic, it is 20 posts down. Then after looking at those data points then formulate a response, then we can continue to have a conversation with the same numbers.


    You falsely claimed Solari's lines "ranked 23rd or lower in pass pro." And I proved that statement to be a fabrication.

    End of discussion.
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  • Returning to the topic, it's a pleasant surprise to see the 63 year old Mike Solari return to Seattle. I thought loosing Solari after the 2009 season was a disappoint. Although CBA practice limitations remains the #1 obstacle, Solari brings all the coaching tools to the offensive line and some background with tight ends. It's good to see the retention of Pat Ruel. Lemuel Jeanpierre remains on the coaching roster as well.

    I would welcome a KC Chiefs style running attack from the 90s.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote: Anyone who actually watched those Whiner offensive lines knows how good they were upfront with Solari as coach.


    Solari could very well be a great hire for the Hawks, but this is literally the first time I've seen anyone argue that their run game was good during that stretch because Solari was the O-line coach. I think that was pretty clearly much more of a right-place-right-time situation for him.

    Instead, what gets rightly talked about to explain those years for the 9ers are four other factors:

    1) An OC/Run game Coordinator in Greg Roman who dramatically improved the running attacks at all three of his NFL stops regardless of who he was surrounded by (took the 9ers to #1, then took the Bills to #1, and last year just took the Ravens from #28 to #11).

    2) A future Hall of Fame running back, running behind...

    3) a very good offensive line (three first round picks, four pro-bowlers)

    4) A running QB who inflated the rushing stats for that team even more.

    Again, none of this is knock on Solari, and he was definitely there for those years, but he really has never been the story of the 9ers rushing attack over those years. To attribute that to Solari you have to ignore that Roman has done that everywhere, and the talent that really infused that group.


    So the offensive line coach deserves NO CREDIT for the performance of the offensive line? :roll:

    So. Much. Salt.


    No, no salt at all, and I didn't even say what you're claiming I said.

    I said that this is the first time I've ever seen someone credit Solari for the 9ers run game during that period, and instead listed off the factors that are usually credited.

    To wall off hurt feelings over the fact of it all I also started my post by saying Solari very well could be a good hire for the Hawks, and ended my post by saying that the credit getting attributed to other places isn't a knock on him either.

    If 48 hours ago before he was announced as the Hawks new O-line coach you were attributing that success to Solari then more power to you, but I've simply just never seen that from you or anyone else (and I think I would have, given the team I follow). IIRC 9ers fans, beat writers, and so on didn't complain about him, but never really thought he was a major part of the story either.
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    Popeyejones
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:This is kind of cool.

    Pete Carroll and Mike Solari both worked at assistant coaches under Head Coach George Seifert with the 49ers in '95 and '96, while Ken Norton Jr. was a first team All-Pro MLB.

    Image



    They also won a Super Bowl in 95' .
    Brett
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  • Brett wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:This is kind of cool.

    Pete Carroll and Mike Solari both worked at assistant coaches under Head Coach George Seifert with the 49ers in '95 and '96, while Ken Norton Jr. was a first team All-Pro MLB.

    Image



    They also won a Super Bowl in 95' .


    That was the '94 season, the year before Carroll became DC. Solari was on the staff for that Super Bowl, however.
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    hawknation2018
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:Nah. I actually this is a fairly solid hire. Solari's been around the block. Think about it -- the dude's been coaching NFL offensive lines since 1981 (37 years). He's steeped in both man and zone blocking principles. He's coached offensive lines that have paved the way for guys like Herschel Walker in Dallas ... Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson in Kansas City ... and Frank Gore with the 49ers.

    He knows and has worked with Carroll and with Schottenheimer's dad, so there is a familiarity there in knowing exactly what it is those guys are looking for. Again, chemistry and being on the same page I think goes a long ways.

    First gut reaction -- again, I like this hire. We'll see once things really get going, but on the surface, I like the hire of Solari. Definitely better than Cable IMO.


    This!!!

    I am actually excited by this hire and eagerly await Solari's opinions and adjustments to our awful OL,

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ++ You can call me a homer, but I am not the only one ++
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    toffee
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  • LolaRox wrote:Serious question - wasn't the Giants o-line trash too?


    This is what I was thinking. I was really excited about this hire and all the good things I was hearing until I found out he was the Giants OLine coach for the last two years. And they have been DREADFUL!

    Most analysts are blaming the Giants OLine as the main reason that Eli Manning struggled this year. And he ran a zone block scheme with the Giants that was criticized for having the RB's hit before they reached the line of scrimmage. My God, is this Tom Cable 2.0?

    I am concerned, but trying to be cautiously optimistic.
    We Fired Tom Cable!
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    xgeoff
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  • xgeoff wrote:
    LolaRox wrote:Serious question - wasn't the Giants o-line trash too?


    This is what I was thinking. I was really excited about this hire and all the good things I was hearing until I found out he was the Giants OLine coach for the last two years. And they have been DREADFUL!

    Most analysts are blaming the Giants OLine as the main reason that Eli Manning struggled this year. And he ran a zone block scheme with the Giants that was criticized for having the RB's hit before they reached the line of scrimmage. My God, is this Tom Cable 2.0?

    I am concerned, but trying to be cautiously optimistic.


    The grades disagree with your findings. Eli had other issues like a depleted WR corps (and he's Eli). Look at pass protection in 2016-2017 when Solari arrived. Cable's best effort was #22 in pass protection in 10 years, and usually more like bottom 5.

    Trust me, this guy is better than Cable. Holmgren and Walter Jones also agree with that.

    Remain calm.....

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    Seymour
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