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Could Justin Britt Be a Cap Casualty?

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Could Justin Britt Be a Cap Casualty?
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:01 am
  • Any of you cap experts know the deal with Justin Britt's contract extension?

    If what I'm reading is correct, the only truly fully guaranteed part of his big extension is the $5M signing bonus. If we were to cut him before the 5th day of the 2018 NFL league year, which starts at 4:00 PM, March 14, the cap hit for 2018, and total dead money from cutting Britt, would only be $3.75M.

    In 2018, Britt will earn a base salary of $2,750,000, a roster bonus of $500,000 and a signing bonus of $5,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $6,166,666 and a dead cap value of $8,750,000.

      2018 salary + 2018 option bonus fully guarantee on 3/18/2018
      2018-20 Per Game Active Bonus: $31,250 ($500,000)
      If the 2018 optiion is declined, 2018 salary increases to $7.75M, 2019-20 years void


    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/justin-britt-14474/

    In 2018 Britt is due a $5,000,000 option bonus by the 5th day of the 2018 league year, if the team declines the 2018 salary increases to $7,750,000. The 2018 salary is guaranteed for injury only at signing and becomes fully guaranteed on the 5th day of the 2018 league year.


    https://overthecap.com/player/justin-britt/3003/

    So cutting Britt would actually open up nearly $2.5M in cap space for 2018. More importantly it would remove cap hits of $8M in 2019 and $11.7M in 2020, when Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner are scheduled to become free agents.

    Of course that means the team would lose one of the two best players on an already weak offensive line. However, Britt clearly regressed in 2017 and thus far in his career he's only had one above-average season. On top of that, the Seahawks drafted a possible replacement in the 2nd round last year in Ethan Pocic, who gained some valuable starting experience over the second half of the season. Pocic was often overpowered at RG, but would face a lot fewer one-on-one matchups playing at center, the position he played his final two years at LSU.

    Is Britt worth the huge extension that made him the 3rd highest paid center in the NFL? A lot might depend on the new offensive staff, as well as the assessment of Pocic's potential.
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  • I think we need to confirm Schotty as the OC with an official hiring, then a O line Coach and have them decide if these guys are going to be a fit before we go into Cutting and signing guys at this point, nobody is safe really on offense for sure and on defense there are a lot of decisions to be made with high salary guys as well.
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  • I really doubt they will cut their best O-lineman of the last two seasons, just for cap reasons. $5 mill is not that much for a good center. This is what happened with Max Unger.
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  • chris98251 wrote:I think we need to confirm Schotty as the OC with an official hiring, then a O line Coach and have them decide if these guys are going to be a fit before we go into Cutting and signing guys at this point, nobody is safe really on offense for sure and on defense there are a lot of decisions to be made with high salary guys as well.


    This. Who knows, Schotty might even get hired for something other than OC. Who knows, he intrigues me as an OC with this many weapons, of course it depends on what is built around him. Usually when OC/DC coaching changes happen, other staff changes.
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Re: Could Justin Britt Be a Cap Casualty?
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:16 pm
  • Britt regressed a bit in 2017 and the Twitter neckbeards, having seen that contract clause, are rushing in to forecast that he'll be cut. Who knows with this team these days. Maybe.

    But I still think jettisoning Britt would be cutting the nose to spite the face. Whatever his regression, you're welcome to make the argument that Seattle can afford to lose even B- quality lineman right now. You'll lose, but you're welcome to make it.
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Re: Could Justin Britt Be a Cap Casualty?
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:27 pm
  • Not a chance.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Britt regressed a bit in 2017 and the Twitter neckbeards, having seen that contract clause, are rushing in to forecast that he'll be cut. Who knows with this team these days. Maybe.

    But I still think jettisoning Britt would be cutting the nose to spite the face. Whatever his regression, you're welcome to make the argument that Seattle can afford to lose even B- quality lineman right now. You'll lose, but you're welcome to make it.


    Dead on. 5m is fine at C until you are damned sure you have a replacement in Pocic and we can't be sure until the new OLC arrives and even then I would not be taking that chance this year.

    If Britt plays poorly next year and Pocic convinces new OLC he is for real then maybe. Fans should be risk averse at this point having seen firsthand that yes, it can get much MUCH worse on OL letting go of starters.

    But as you say, with our org it could go either way. I'd like to say that spending the money for Joeckel, Britt, Brown last year and canning cable are strong signs that we have finally declared the bargain bin ice dancer convert era at OL a bust though.
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  • I’ve never thought of Justin Britt as being a good center. It just happens to be the position where he sucks the least. His issues as a pass protector are concealed and his strengths as a run blocker are eccentuated.

    Resigning him was a mistake. Ethan Pocic should be our center. With a full offseason to bulk up, I think he could be a good guard, but he’s a natural center.

    I wouldn’t cut Britt. We’ve made our bed there. It would be better to hire the rest of our offensive staff and see how best to make this work.
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  • THE TABS wrote:I’ve never thought of Justin Britt as being a good center. It just happens to be the position where he sucks the least. His issues as a pass protector are concealed and his strengths as a run blocker are eccentuated.

    Resigning him was a mistake. Ethan Pocic should be our center. With a full offseason to bulk up, I think he could be a good guard, but he’s a natural center.

    I wouldn’t cut Britt. We’ve made our bed there. It would be better to hire the rest of our offensive staff and see how best to make this work.


    Bingo. He looked better because everyone around him was terrible. Crap with corn in it sticks out from other crap but at the end of the day it’s still a piece of crap.
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    THE TABS wrote:I’ve never thought of Justin Britt as being a good center. It just happens to be the position where he sucks the least. His issues as a pass protector are concealed and his strengths as a run blocker are eccentuated.

    Resigning him was a mistake. Ethan Pocic should be our center. With a full offseason to bulk up, I think he could be a good guard, but he’s a natural center.

    I wouldn’t cut Britt. We’ve made our bed there. It would be better to hire the rest of our offensive staff and see how best to make this work.


    Bingo. He looked better because everyone around him was terrible. Crap with corn in it sticks out from other crap but at the end of the day it’s still a piece of crap.


    Britt had an empirically strong year in 2016. He had Pro Bowl whispers about him. That doesn't happen because one is the best of a bad line; it happens because other players around the league take a glance and know good play when they see it. Let's not diss him in retrospect just because we're looking for places to save money.
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  • We will see how he plays with the new line coach.
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  • Britt will be the starter in 2018.

    I am also in the Pocic camp at Center, but Britt will have the opportunity to prove he is worth the money first.

    If he is just okay in '18 he will be cut the following off-season.
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  • hawk45 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Britt regressed a bit in 2017 and the Twitter neckbeards, having seen that contract clause, are rushing in to forecast that he'll be cut. Who knows with this team these days. Maybe.

    But I still think jettisoning Britt would be cutting the nose to spite the face. Whatever his regression, you're welcome to make the argument that Seattle can afford to lose even B- quality lineman right now. You'll lose, but you're welcome to make it.


    Dead on. 5m is fine at C until you are damned sure you have a replacement in Pocic and we can't be sure until the new OLC arrives and even then I would not be taking that chance this year.

    If Britt plays poorly next year and Pocic convinces new OLC he is for real then maybe. Fans should be risk averse at this point having seen firsthand that yes, it can get much MUCH worse on OL letting go of starters.

    But as you say, with our org it could go either way. I'd like to say that spending the money for Joeckel, Britt, Brown last year and canning cable are strong signs that we have finally declared the bargain bin ice dancer convert era at OL a bust though.


    Montana: Not sure if you are implying that I'm a twitter "neckbeard," but I'm not forecasting that he'll be cut, just broaching the question. I think it's a valid question.

    Also, "losing B- quality linemen" presumes that there is no opportunity cost to keeping Britt on the roster. Are we assuming that the team would do nothing with the nearly $9M per season that Britt is set to make over the next three years? There are other options out there, and with new offensive coaches and the fact that Joeckel and Aboushi are almost certainly gone, I think you can throw the "continuity" argument out the window.

    You also have to consider Pocic at G vs C - a mediocre G who gets overpowered consistently vs potentially a very good C who isn't severely hampered by his lack of strength. You have to wonder why they buried Pocic at backup C for so long before finally playing him at RG - perhaps they wanted to see his potential at C first?

    havwk45: as mentioned above, Britt would not be costing us $5M per year, he'd be costing close to $9M.

    Also, if you accept the team option for Britt and he has another down year, cutting him in 2019 adds a bunch of dead money to the cap that wouldn't be there if the hawks decline the option this March.
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  • A lot of the pressure on Wilson was up the middle so i'd like to see an upgrade , but until there is were stuck with Britt.
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  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:A lot of the pressure on Wilson was up the middle so i'd like to see an upgrade , but until there is were stuck with Britt.


    Britt is a solid center, I want to see what a new O-line coach can do with him. I would get rid of Fant in a heartbeat. Keep Ifedi and teach him some discipline, he's a solid lineman but Cable couldn't keep him in check.
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  • A-Dog wrote:Also, "losing B- quality linemen" presumes that there is no opportunity cost to keeping Britt on the roster. Are we assuming that the team would do nothing with the nearly $9M per season that Britt is set to make over the next three years? There are other options out there, and with new offensive coaches and the fact that Joeckel and Aboushi are almost certainly gone, I think you can throw the "continuity" argument out the window.


    This argument is exactly how we ended up with guys like Fant, Joeckel, Nowak, Pocic, and Ifedi manning our O-line.

    No, not all at the same time - that's not my point.

    The point is that concepts like "opportunity cost" and "value assessment" don't bypass the need to field something good. At some point, you get what you pay for, and if fans have their way, practically every good player on this roster will be gone. Britt, Graham, Richardson, Richardson, Sherman, Earl, Kam, Avril, Bennett, Wright...there's no end to this, and that list alone is more than one offseason can reload. You guys are acting like black ledgers rush out onto the field and score touchdowns. I'm surprised people aren't calling for Bobby Wagner's trade yet.

    There's another cost we need to be thinking about. I'll call it "dump cost". It's the chance of jettisoning a proven player and being unable, for various reasons, to replace him well. Has the departure of Bevell taught nobody anything? You CAN get worse. People wanted Okung and Unger gone. They left. Then people remembered "Oh, shoot, we needed to actually replace them with something good...dang...". There are a number of things that are entirely outside the Seahawks' control when it comes to grabbing replacements (the draft and how it falls, whether a certain FA's wife feels like moving to Seattle...). There needs to be a limit as to how happily and recklessly we cast off players.

    Obviously, we can't hold on to every decent player, and the Seahawks haven't. Tate, Robinson, Mebane, Giacomini, Irvin, Clemons, Browner, Miller, Sweezy, Carpenter, Okung, Unger...the list of people Seattle has let go is longer than most people give them credit for, and you COULD blame bad drafting for our failure to replace them. That'd be fair. But that brings up the character of the 2018 draft. It's pretty shallow at certain positions and we have no 2nd and 3rd round pick. We have extremely limited leverage to be casting off decent players right now, especially, of all places, on the O-line.

    Failing for cheaper is still failing.
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  • A-Dog wrote:Also, "losing B- quality linemen" presumes that there is no opportunity cost to keeping Britt on the roster. Are we assuming that the team would do nothing with the nearly $9M per season that Britt is set to make over the next three years? There are other options out there, and with new offensive coaches and the fact that Joeckel and Aboushi are almost certainly gone, I think you can throw the "continuity" argument out the window.

    You also have to consider Pocic at G vs C - a mediocre G who gets overpowered consistently vs potentially a very good C who isn't severely hampered by his lack of strength. You have to wonder why they buried Pocic at backup C for so long before finally playing him at RG - perhaps they wanted to see his potential at C first?


    I guess I'm in the minority who don't feel like Pocic is that close to being much more of an asset. Do we think he hasn't had years of regular access to high-level training? Even this post, which acknowledges the unlikelihood that relative strength will suddenly catch up, suggests that the relative lack of strength will cease to be a hindrance at C. His height means he'll always have trouble based on leverage. I don't hate him as a prospect, but he's an example of why I think there should be a general aversion to taller guys on the interior and I don't get how anyone can consider him a better prospect than Ifedi as bulk and strength are the only shortcomings of his with all that much room for improvement. Admittedly, this is speaking in general terms about strengths/weaknesses and ability to improve and eliminate shortcomings.
    I do agree that opportunity cost needs to be considered and major changes might happen. I just want to stop seeing so many plays dependent on reach blocks and/or the threat of RW running as the only misdirection.
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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:A lot of the pressure on Wilson was up the middle so i'd like to see an upgrade , but until there is were stuck with Britt.


    Britt is a solid center, I want to see what a new O-line coach can do with him. I would get rid of Fant in a heartbeat. Keep Ifedi and teach him some discipline, he's a solid lineman but Cable couldn't keep him in check.


    Max Unger was a solid center Britt is average at best.
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  • If we had a decent line, then yes Pete and John would SERIOUSLY consider cutting Britt and not picking up his option.

    But I can't see any scenario where we can afford to let Britt go, even if he did regress this year and probably doesn't deserve his contract anymore. Our line's already in shambles, no way we let the only other stable player than Brown go.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:If we had a decent line, then yes Pete and John would SERIOUSLY consider cutting Britt and not picking up his option.

    But I can't see any scenario where we can afford to let Britt go, even if he did regress this year and probably doesn't deserve his contract anymore. Our line's already in shambles, no way we let the only other stable player than Brown go.


    I can absolutely see a scenario where Britt is gone.

    Sign a starting guard in FA.

    Draft a guard.

    Slide Pocic to C.

    In reality, though, I see him on the team this year. However not sure i’d put my money where my mouth is and bet money on it. Then again I wouldn’t bet money on any player 100% being on the team this season barring Russ and Bobby.
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  • If I were going to make excuses for Cable, and I'm not inclined to, I would point to the back-to-back offseasons that we let 2 starters walk simultaneously in FA, causing Cable to have to shuffle 3 or more positions on the line to find the least-worst fit for all the unprovens.

    First it was Carp-Unger. Then it was Sweezy-Okung.

    Individually, letting go of each player was perfectly defensible, either due to injury history or simply not playing well enough to warrant a second contract which would inevitably result in a slight-to-moderate overpay. However, replacing those 2+ holes in back-to-back seasons DESTROYED our line. Yes Cable was at fault for not grooming players to be worth a second contract, yes Cable was presumably involved in the decision to let them go. At the very least when they asked Cable if it would be okay he nodded yes when he should have been pouring gasoline on himself and threatening to light a match. But after those 2 offseasons the lesson I took was, if you have to overpay on *one* player to prevent the shuffling at 3 or more positions, you do it gladly.

    We can quibble on "solid" vs "average" or whatever but Britt was getting pro-bowl consideration last year and was starter-level this year. We are looking at George Fant off an injury at LT, who-knows-what at LG, who-knows-what at RG, and please-God-not-Ifedi at RT.

    I agree that Pocic may be best-suited for Center but too bad, that was just a dumb draft move then, because it is suicidal to hold open tryouts at the only position we have any confidence in whatsoever. I would much, much rather see Pocic be depth and/or continue to play temporarily at OG while they evaluate him and Britt.

    This is a totally different conversation 1 year from now after we have more data on Britt, Pocic, and Solari. Now if (unlike Cable) Solari is able to make evaluations of players without needing 8 regular-season games first and Solari is comfortable rolling with Pocic, that's a different story. That's possible. But if I'm JS and Pete I'm urging Solari to give them the conservative estimate. Because we saw what happened when Cable blew sunshine up their butts.
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  • original poster wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:If we had a decent line, then yes Pete and John would SERIOUSLY consider cutting Britt and not picking up his option.

    But I can't see any scenario where we can afford to let Britt go, even if he did regress this year and probably doesn't deserve his contract anymore. Our line's already in shambles, no way we let the only other stable player than Brown go.


    I can absolutely see a scenario where Britt is gone.

    Sign a starting guard in FA.

    Draft a guard.

    Slide Pocic to C.

    In reality, though, I see him on the team this year. However not sure i’d put my money where my mouth is and bet money on it. Then again I wouldn’t bet money on any player 100% being on the team this season barring Russ and Bobby.


    Maybe, but IMO we need a good veteran guard anyway. Taking Britt out and putting Pocic at center is at BEST a lateral move at improving an already bad line............and quite possibly making it worse.

    I'd agree with you if this was next year when we hopefully have the line shored up. But for 2018? No, I think we have no choice but to keep Britt, at least for one more year to see if he bounces back and we can get some stability.

    Remember, new line coach, new coordinator, etc. That's a LOT of change if you're kicking Britt to the curb.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    original poster wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:If we had a decent line, then yes Pete and John would SERIOUSLY consider cutting Britt and not picking up his option.

    But I can't see any scenario where we can afford to let Britt go, even if he did regress this year and probably doesn't deserve his contract anymore. Our line's already in shambles, no way we let the only other stable player than Brown go.


    I can absolutely see a scenario where Britt is gone.

    Sign a starting guard in FA.

    Draft a guard.

    Slide Pocic to C.

    In reality, though, I see him on the team this year. However not sure i’d put my money where my mouth is and bet money on it. Then again I wouldn’t bet money on any player 100% being on the team this season barring Russ and Bobby.


    Maybe, but IMO we need a good veteran guard anyway. Taking Britt out and putting Pocic at center is at BEST a lateral move at improving an already bad line............and quite possibly making it worse.

    I'd agree with you if this was next year when we hopefully have the line shored up. But for 2018? No, I think we have no choice but to keep Britt, at least for one more year to see if he bounces back and we can get some stability.

    Remember, new line coach, new coordinator, etc. That's a LOT of change if you're kicking Britt to the curb.


    Yeah I fully agree. Would be an agressive move for sure and I’m pretty sure he will be the starter at C. His option is in March so we’ll know soon enough.
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  • Britt would probably look a lot better with a couple of decent guards on either side of him. I really don't want to see another rebuild of the O-line this year. All of the shuffling and switching has done no good the past couple of years.
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Re: Could Justin Britt Be a Cap Casualty?
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:07 am
  • I think they should move Britt back to guard (to pair with Ifedi) and put Pocic in at center.

    I think Britt and Ifedi would do really well at guard in Solari's more power oriented ZBS.
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Re: Could Justin Britt Be a Cap Casualty?
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:31 am
  • Mojambo wrote:I think they should move Britt back to guard (to pair with Ifedi) and put Pocic in at center.

    I think Britt and Ifedi would do really well at guard in Solari's more power oriented ZBS.


    From the standpoint of these 2 having some power I wouldn't mind. From the standpoint of guard being easier than tackle I wouldn't mind. They are a bit tall, although that isn't a dealbreaker.

    I just think that giving Britt another year at center to evaluate a hopefully-beefed-up-Pocic who may play guard as he's groomed for center is the more conservative play. I don't see the downside to working Pocic in at C as the season goes along as Solari gets a feel. If you approach it that way, you can swap Pocic and Britt in some game where we're up by a lot of points (haha) instead of gambling on the swap right away even if it's Aaron Donald across the LOS.

    Because shuffling the C position when it is set, to where if it doesn't work out you have an emergency re-shuffle mid-season, just feels like the sort of seat-of-the-pants approach that has had our lines a mess until 8 games in.
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  • I hope that they are paying Solari a ton of money because that man has a big job ahead of him. The cupboard is relatively bare and there isn't much to build on.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:I hope that they are paying Solari a ton of money because that man has a big job ahead of him. The cupboard is relatively bare and there isn't much to build on.


    The task looks less daunting when you start plugging actual football players in at the positions they have experience at playing.
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  • Seanhawk wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:I hope that they are paying Solari a ton of money because that man has a big job ahead of him. The cupboard is relatively bare and there isn't much to build on.


    The task looks less daunting when you start plugging actual football players in at the positions they have experience at playing.


    And using techniques that fit their body and abilities.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:I hope that they are paying Solari a ton of money because that man has a big job ahead of him. The cupboard is relatively bare and there isn't much to build on.


    The task looks less daunting when you start plugging actual football players in at the positions they have experience at playing.


    And using techniques that fit their body and abilities.


    You mean don't do this crap???

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  • Seymour wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:I hope that they are paying Solari a ton of money because that man has a big job ahead of him. The cupboard is relatively bare and there isn't much to build on.


    The task looks less daunting when you start plugging actual football players in at the positions they have experience at playing.


    And using techniques that fit their body and abilities.


    You mean don't do this crap???



    Cable at his greatest, right there.
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