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Runningbacks have been terrible since Lynch left

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  • The running game is very important in the NFL. And that used to be a strength of this team. Ever since lynch left though its been pretty bad.

    Rawls- Flash in the pan, had a few good games in 2015 and has been bad since then

    Procise- Doesnt even play

    C mike- not that good and always fumbles

    Lacy- Fatass

    Mike Davis- Decent back, nothing really amazing would make a good backup complimentary back

    Carson- Showed flashes of of good play, dont know if hes gonna stay healthy or how good he really is


    This team needs a runningback almost as bad as it needs cable to be gone. Most great teams in the NFL have a beast in the backfeild just look at whos in the playoffs. Everyone has talented backs. I hope they can draft someone like saquian barkley even though thats unlikely. But you get the point, they need a talented elite back again.
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  • We kinda took Lynch's durability for granted, now we know how the other half lives with this revolving door of oft injured and inconsistent RB's.

    I think Pete and John are comfortable going into 2018 with Carson, Davis and hopefully McKissic's back.........but make no mistake they will go after another RB in the draft.

    Good news is this is one of the deepest RB drafts in a long time.
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  • I don't think anyone has disagreed... Though I think a decent RB would be good enough.. Larry Csonka comes to mind.
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  • It's a combination of the O-line and not having a world-beater RB

    You guys remember how many times Lynch would get hit in the backfield and still make it back to the LOS or even eek out a decent gain? He was a truly special player

    Any mere mortal RB, like the ones we have now, get tackled for losses
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  • What's the likelihood of getting a generational talent at RB again, especially that cheap (traded fourth rounder)? Get a good run blocking line and a couple of healthy, explosive RBs, at least one who is a receiving threat and your set.
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  • I'm sure I heard somewhere that when we won the SB we had the most expensive o line in the league. Beastmode was great but put him behind this line and see how he gets on. Ask Alex Collins.
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  • UK_Seahawk wrote:I'm sure I heard somewhere that when we won the SB we had the most expensive o line in the league. Beastmode was great but put him behind this line and see how he gets on. Ask Alex Collins.


    Collins is a perfect example that the run game is a three headed monster;

    1. RB
    2. Line
    3. Scheme

    Unfortunately we've had none of the above the past 2-3 years.
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  • adeltaY wrote:What's the likelihood of getting a generational talent at RB again, especially that cheap (traded fourth rounder)? Get a good run blocking line and a couple of healthy, explosive RBs, at least one who is a receiving threat and your set.

    You just have to draft well. Seahawks could have had Alvin Kamara but took ethan pocic instead.
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  • The Hawks have generally drafted well at the position they have just been Cable'd.

    Spencer Ware 6th Rd (Starting RB) (Couldn't keep due to deep roster, and he got a DUI.)
    Thomas Rawls UDFA (He has regressed under Cable, and gotten worse.)
    Alex Collins 5th Rd (Looked like a bust w/Cable, looked like a starter in BAL,)
    Chris Carson 7th Rd (Looked impressive.)

    They have consistently found starters with late rd picks. The problem to me continues to be coaching.

    Suspect Picks
    C-Mike 2nd Rd Bust (I wonder with different coaching what could of been, he clearly had talent.)
    Procise 3rd Rd (Didn't mis-evaluate the talent. He is just made of glass.)

    Bottomline the team needs a new O-Line coach.

    These threads that keep popping up focusing on draft picks are missing the point entirely. Cable & Bevell are black holes that drag everyone down with them unless they are All-Pros talent wise, and can overcome them.

    Focus on the defensive draft picks if you want to be critical. They at least can be honestly evaluated because they are competently coached on that side of the ball.

    The talent evals are spot on at an incredibly high rate, it's just stuff keeps happening, Mainly Cabevell.
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  • combo of both the O line and lack of a good back.
    Lynch final season with us was not spectacular. Mostly because he had nobody blocking for him
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  • seahawksny wrote:combo of both the O line and lack of a good back.
    Lynch final season with us was not spectacular. Mostly because he had nobody blocking for him

    He was injured in his last season with the seahawks , but when healthy he was still consitently getting tough yards and was far better than any back they have had since.
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  • Beast was kind of sucky just prior to leaving Seattle.
    Loved the guy during his on years, but his clown thing was getting old. Just ask Oakland.

    That said, he was the #2 reason we won a Super Bowl. (Our magnificent D was #1)
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  • RussB wrote:The running game is very important in the NFL. And that used to be a strength of this team. Ever since lynch left though its been pretty bad.

    Rawls- Flash in the pan, had a few good games in 2015 and has been bad since then

    Procise- Doesnt even play

    C mike- not that good and always fumbles

    Lacy- Fatass

    Mike Davis- Decent back, nothing really amazing would make a good backup complimentary back

    Carson- Showed flashes of of good play, dont know if hes gonna stay healthy or how good he really is


    This team needs a runningback almost as bad as it needs cable to be gone. Most great teams in the NFL have a beast in the backfeild just look at whos in the playoffs. Everyone has talented backs. I hope they can draft someone like saquian barkley even though thats unlikely. But you get the point, they need a talented elite back again.


    Description on the RBs is pretty on. Unfortunately, there was every reason to think Rawls could get it done. Even with Lynch injured in 2015, the Hawks were able to run. Rawls had 830 yrds in 7 games and even posted more yards in a single game than Lynch ever did.Then the Tasmanian Devil got loose in his head....
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  • red grenadine wrote:It's a combination of the O-line and not having a world-beater RB

    You guys remember how many times Lynch would get hit in the backfield and still make it back to the LOS or even eek out a decent gain? He was a truly special player

    Any mere mortal RB, like the ones we have now, get tackled for losses


    Yep. Unless you're Beast Mode, it's pretty difficult playing RB in the NFL when you have to start breaking tackles before you even get back to the line scrimmage on a pretty consistent basis. I'd also say it's pretty difficult to evaluate RB's with an OL that in so inconsistent and sometimes downright horrible at run blocking.
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  • I'm surprised there hasn't been the query of why all of our RB's for the past two years (Lacy exception) have been injured at one point or another. Are they all just soft? Maybe but something tells me that when a defense can just unload on our running game something is going to give.

    Need a quality LG veteran to be our top priority this offseason. Do what you have to do but make it happen FO. I know there are many that say it won't matter if Cable is still here. That might be true but that doesn't mean we do nothing.
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  • seahawkfreak wrote:I'm surprised there hasn't been the query of why all of our RB's for the past two years (Lacy exception) have been injured at one point or another. Are they all just soft? Maybe but something tells me that when a defense can just unload on our running game something is going to give.

    Need a quality LG veteran to be our top priority this offseason. Do what you have to do but make it happen FO. I know there are many that say it won't matter if Cable is still here. That might be true but that doesn't mean we do nothing.


    I gotta say, I don't think it's very fair or accurate to equate getting injured with being soft.

    You think Bobby and Earl are soft?
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  • Chapow wrote:
    seahawkfreak wrote:I'm surprised there hasn't been the query of why all of our RB's for the past two years (Lacy exception) have been injured at one point or another. Are they all just soft? Maybe but something tells me that when a defense can just unload on our running game something is going to give.

    Need a quality LG veteran to be our top priority this offseason. Do what you have to do but make it happen FO. I know there are many that say it won't matter if Cable is still here. That might be true but that doesn't mean we do nothing.


    I gotta say, I don't think it's very fair or accurate to equate getting injured with being soft.

    You think Bobby and Earl are soft?


    It was a throw out line in case someone suggested that. No I don't think one is soft when they get injured. I also don't think being injury prone is a highly desirable attribute either.

    Main point is I think our RBs have been getting hurt because our offensive scheme and that our O-line is severely inept. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
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  • It's really hard to grade the RB's since our oline sucks. We've been trying to replace Lynch with another power back but none of them have had a chance. You'd have to be as elusive as RW to escape the 2 to 4 rushers who are in the backfield on almost every play.

    Early in the season and last year we seemed to have some success with the end around. I think that came to an end with the Duane Brown signing.
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  • seahawkfreak wrote: our O-line is severely inept.


    This is what I think the majority of the problem is. Not that the RB's are all terrible. We shouldn't need a once in a generation RB that can break three tackles in the backfield before carrying another three defenders on his back just to gain three yards.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:We kinda took Lynch's durability for granted, now we know how the other half lives with this revolving door of oft injured and inconsistent RB's.

    I think Pete and John are comfortable going into 2018 with Carson, Davis and hopefully McKissic's back.........but make no mistake they will go after another RB in the draft.

    Good news is this is one of the deepest RB drafts in a long time.

    Lynch was always injured too he just played through it much of the time.
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  • Fade wrote:The Hawks have generally drafted well at the position they have just been Cable'd.

    Spencer Ware 6th Rd (Starting RB) (Couldn't keep due to deep roster, and he got a DUI.)
    Thomas Rawls UDFA (He has regressed under Cable, and gotten worse.)
    Alex Collins 5th Rd (Looked like a bust w/Cable, looked like a starter in BAL,)
    Chris Carson 7th Rd (Looked impressive.)

    They have consistently found starters with late rd picks. The problem to me continues to be coaching.

    Suspect Picks
    C-Mike 2nd Rd Bust (I wonder with different coaching what could of been, he clearly had talent.)
    Procise 3rd Rd (Didn't mis-evaluate the talent. He is just made of glass.)

    Bottomline the team needs a new O-Line coach.

    These threads that keep popping up focusing on draft picks are missing the point entirely. Cable & Bevell are black holes that drag everyone down with them unless they are All-Pros talent wise, and can overcome them.

    Focus on the defensive draft picks if you want to be critical. They at least can be honestly evaluated because they are competently coached on that side of the ball.

    The talent evals are spot on at an incredibly high rate, it's just stuff keeps happening, Mainly Cabevell.


    It's not so much Bevell...Cable on the other hand, IS the problem with the run game.
    The Seahawks letting our RB Coach go last year has screwed things up, Bevell has had to run plays involving RB's by Cable when he's drawing up Offensive schemes.
    Inept O-Line play factors in Bigly (LOLOL)
    Remember when Big Walt & Steve Hutchinson were plowing the field for Shawn Alexander?
    That showed me just how important O Blocking can be for the Run Game....Didn't hurt having Mack Strong lending a helping hand in the boot.
    Alexander was almost AUTOMATIC in the Red Zone for getting TD's...Sure wish we could use that type of ZBS again eh? LOL.
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  • seahawkfreak wrote:I'm surprised there hasn't been the query of why all of our RB's for the past two years (Lacy exception) have been injured at one point or another. Are they all just soft? Maybe but something tells me that when a defense can just unload on our running game something is going to give.

    Need a quality LG veteran to be our top priority this offseason. Do what you have to do but make it happen FO. I know there are many that say it won't matter if Cable is still here. That might be true but that doesn't mean we do nothing.

    O line sucks and is badly coached , and they are probably all just injury prone. They need an elite durable back that can create yards when they arent there sometimes. Like derrick henry of the titans.

    Also cable needs to be gone.
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  • I think it happens when D lineman are getting multiple shots from different angles versus the RB hitting LB's and getting tackled by DB's more head up or leg tackles, High low hits by Lineman before they even really get started can cause a lot of impact or freak torque type injuries.
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  • We haven't consistently used a FB since Lynch left. With this line, a FB is NOT an option, it is a must.
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  • WmHBonney wrote:We haven't consistently used a FB since Lynch left. With this line, a FB is NOT an option, it is a must.


    :ditto: :ditto: :ditto: :ditto: :ditto: :ditto: :ditto: :ditto: :ditto:
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  • Chapow wrote:
    seahawkfreak wrote: our O-line is severely inept.


    This is what I think the majority of the problem is. Not that the RB's are all terrible. We shouldn't need a once in a generation RB that can break three tackles in the backfield before carrying another three defenders on his back just to gain three yards.


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  • sprhawk73 wrote:It's really hard to grade the RB's since our oline sucks. We've been trying to replace Lynch with another power back but none of them have had a chance. You'd have to be as elusive as RW to escape the 2 to 4 rushers who are in the backfield on almost every play.

    Early in the season and last year we seemed to have some success with the end around. I think that came to an end with the Duane Brown signing.


    Hey now, Lockett got facemasked twice on an end around that set us up perfectly for a TD. :mrgreen:
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  • Like others have mentioned, its the run blocking not the running backs.
    If Cable stays, he needs to fix his thought process, and the O-Line needs to get better fast, either with new quality players or the existing ones finally figuring it out.
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  • Seahawk wrote:Like others have mentioned, its the run blocking not the running backs.
    If Cable stays, he needs to fix his thought process, and the O-Line needs to get better fast, either with new quality players or the existing ones finally figuring it out.

    That is true tun blocking is terrible. But lets be honest, no back since lynch has been elite either.
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  • You should not need a HOF type running back to have a average to good Running game. As stated Collins and Ware both stand out as players that have excelled in running the ball since leaving Seattle.
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  • RussB wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Like others have mentioned, its the run blocking not the running backs.
    If Cable stays, he needs to fix his thought process, and the O-Line needs to get better fast, either with new quality players or the existing ones finally figuring it out.

    That is true tun blocking is terrible. But lets be honest, no back since lynch has been elite either.


    While that is true, if the bar is Marshawn Lynch, it's an awfully damn high bar and one that is going to be extremely difficult to reach again. Marshawn Lynch type RBs are few and far between. We shouldn't require that level of RB to have a competent running game and if we do we're probably pretty screwed.
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  • Our run game suffered before Lynch left.

    The actual issue was losing Unger. We gutted our run blocking (Unger not the only loss on that) and shortly thereafter Lynch said bye.

    Now we reap the fruits of all our weird decisions with the OL.

    It isn't a mystery and it isn't really the runningbacks.
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  • One thing I go back to was Pete talking to Lynch about hitting a specific run lane hard on a play. Lynch was eating some skittles and said, "I'll just read it." Pete said something else to him and Lynch again responded, "I'll just read it."

    One thing I find interesting having played RB a long time is that coaches generally want backs to hit a play exactly as designed and ignore the variables...such as maybe a DT directly in running lane. As a RB, if you do your assignment strictly to the letter, you'll end up injured and/or out of a job in no time. Obviously you can't let players just run amuck and do what they want, but in some ways you have to allow a RB to use their natural running talent and not simply be a robot that runs in a strait line into whatever chaos is there.

    It's very difficult to trust in play design when your OL are inept. It's like a learned behavior in a bad way. Experience tells you that the hole isn't going to be there and if you run it as designed then it's going to ne a loss of yards, I'm going to fight for inches when I should probably go down, and then 3 guys are going to roll up on my ankle and knee.

    Lynch was successful because he was a general talent to succeed regardless, but also because he'll still just shake his head, eat a handful of skittles, and tell the HC that he'll just read it even when the HC tells him to do something specific.

    A coach relies and believes in the system.

    A RB relies on talent.

    These are two sort of clashing ideals that somehow need to engage in marriage. Better OL play will makes these two polarizations less extreme, yes, but it seems that going about the RB situation almost wholely like a systematic college approach where you go about it like X RB is going to be gone in two years and then we'll get another robot, has really hurt (literally) almost every RB we've had since. I think we need to get back to (just a little) RBs just being talented RBs and not this juvenile college systematic approach.

    Again, OL has a lot to do with this and the RB position has more high speed collisions than any other, but we haven't done ourselves any favors from a coaching perspective.

    I think both the coaches and basically everyone else took for granted just how much overall talent the team amassed. Next man up, indeed...
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  • I'd stress that there's a huge difference between actual RB talent vs the OL giving a guy even a 2 yard wide running lane. The latter is just a guy basically doing a running sober field sobriety test. That's not talent...or at least not RB talent anyway. lol
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  • Here's a gem for ya....

    How many systems in football, offensive or defensive, are special or unique?

    None.

    How many players in football are special or unique?

    Think about it.
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  • It's hard to have 'good running backs' when each of them is regularly met either at the exchange point or behind the LOS b/c the OLine is so poor runblocking that there are no holes and they let the opposing D penetrate our backfield.

    Replace Cable then fix the OLine and watch the running game immediately improve. All of our RBs will start to look specia, well all except Lacy.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • vin.couve12 wrote:I'd stress that there's a huge difference between actual RB talent vs the OL giving a guy even a 2 yard wide running lane. The latter is just a guy basically doing a running sober field sobriety test. That's not talent...or at least not RB talent anyway. lol

    I have to disagree its not all about the O line even though cable is trash. Look at the cowboys with and without zeke, they still have a good o line and none of the backs come even close to him. David johnson of the cardinals doesnt have that great of an o line and he was a monster last season.

    Jags dont have that great of an o line and fournette is a beast. If you have a bad line and have a special back he can make stuff happen. Thats what lynch did for years, now the shit o line is being exposed because there is no great runningback behind it. They need a good running back because i dont think cable is going anywhere.
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  • Carson is a damn good back, just needs to stay healthy.
    Davis is a very serviceable back, and would be a great compliment to Carson.

    Lynch was one of a kind, one of an era, he's gone, time to move on.

    If they can put something that resembles an O line together, both backs I mentioned would succeed.
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  • RussB wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:I'd stress that there's a huge difference between actual RB talent vs the OL giving a guy even a 2 yard wide running lane. The latter is just a guy basically doing a running sober field sobriety test. That's not talent...or at least not RB talent anyway. lol

    I have to disagree its not all about the O line even though cable is trash. Look at the cowboys with and without zeke, they still have a good o line and none of the backs come even close to him. David johnson of the cardinals doesnt have that great of an o line and he was a monster last season.

    Jags dont have that great of an o line and fournette is a beast. If you have a bad line and have a special back he can make stuff happen. Thats what lynch did for years, now the shit o line is being exposed because there is no great runningback behind it. They need a good running back because i dont think cable is going anywhere.

    We're not in disagreement about that. There's a bit of a formula to it, but there's no substitute for an apex back.
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  • hawker84 wrote:Carson is a damn good back, just needs to stay healthy.
    Davis is a very serviceable back, and would be a great compliment to Carson.

    Lynch was one of a kind, one of an era, he's gone, time to move on.

    If they can put something that resembles an O line together, both backs I mentioned would succeed.

    I still really like Carson. He's got a great overall skillset by nature and he'll play for quite a while in this league as a starter.

    He's also still just one guy that plays the position where you're running into people full speed 20 times a game. As far as offense goes, there is none more physically demanding.
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  • LOL!
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  • I'm toting this line to my next senseless meeting.

    I just read it! <drops mic>
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  • Don't forget that the other factor that has not been mentioned is that at the same time that Lynch got hurt and eventually left...we also lost Okung. And while I am fully expecting to get the wrath of the .net for even mentioning his name but when he was healthy he was a great run blocker.

    Before you tear into me, take a look at 2015 when Rawls came in for Lynch and notice how many of his big run are to the left side. Especially during the Bengals game.

    Hopefully Brown will be around next year and we can get our running game going again.
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  • Fournette bullying the rapeyburgers right now and the Jags' play action is leaving wide open WRs and TEs

    That was once familiar.
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    vin.couve12
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  • Collins was an afterthought here and very good in Baltimore, amazing what a competent line will do for a back.
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    Smellyman
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Fournette bullying the rapeyburgers right now and the Jags' play action is leaving wide open WRs and TEs

    That was once familiar.


    You jinxed it lol
    SixSeahawk
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  • SixSeahawk wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Fournette bullying the rapeyburgers right now and the Jags' play action is leaving wide open WRs and TEs

    That was once familiar.


    You jinxed it lol

    Lol

    Yeldon is doing good, but it also seemed like the PIT D is now widening out and shooting gaps. Jags D just scored though and it's probably not the only 6 that D gets today. PIT is now one dimensional and will get desperate.
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    vin.couve12
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  • I keep jinxing it. That D just stopped playing. Horrible tackling and coverage. PIT can now go back to any gameplan.

    Kung Fury wouldn't have let this happen...
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    vin.couve12
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  • Ryan, Rapeyburger, and now Brees all lost to no name QBs/Better teams this weekend. Brady is going down next week.

    MIN/JAX Superbowl. Defense, running the football, and QBs who are good enough.
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