Than the Seahawks and Chiefs (tied)..

Out of all the crazy stats I have seen this year, seeing this one really jumps out..

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/12/11/1 ... top-please

Seahawks are tied with the Kansas City Chiefs for most conversions allowed on 3rd and 10+ in the NFL this season. Both teams have given up 16 first-downs on 57 plays (excluding kneeldowns, “no plays” due to penalty, and field goal attempts).

So, just let them get to like 3rd and 5 you're saying?

That's gotta be a scheme issue no? To be so consistently poor in that down and distance can't be solely on execution.

mistaowen wrote:So, just let them get to like 3rd and 5 you're saying?

Brilliant!

That's one category that I wish our team was not leading. It does more to "piss off" the fans than just about anything else!

Playing soft defense in these situations will do that to you.

That is the one stat I would say that has been the constant for decades. If I had a dollar for every time I have said something like "It's 3rd and 13, I bet they get the first down" and then they do over the past 20 years I bet I could buy this whole place a round of drinks.

Kris

Get rid of Richard. Unacceptable. Seahawks will NOT win a superbowl with Richard as DC. WONT HAPPEN!

I think we need to blitz more on 3rd and longs. We don't have a LEO DE, like the Jags' Ngakoue/Fowler or even the Raiders' Bruce Irvin, who can quickly generate consistent pressure in nickel situations.

Bennett, Richardson, Clark, etc. generate pressure, but it is slower and more labored. We can't allow QBs enough time to make 10+ yards throws, when we know they have to pass, on 3rd downs.

Pathetic. It's time for Kris Richard to take some heat because this is unacceptable. There is a fundamental flaw in our vanilla defensive scheme and Pete needs to address this immediately...but he won't.

Only thing that's worse than that statistic, is the article it was cited in. Fieldgulls makes me want to tear my eyeballs out these days.

West TX Hawk wrote:Pathetic. It's time for Kris Richard to take some heat because this is unacceptable. There is a fundamental flaw in our vanilla defensive scheme and Pete needs to address this immediately...but he won't.

How do you know scheme is the problem? Maybe it's the players.

This isnt a matter of playing soft. Its a weakness in our defense that has been exploited now for almost 4 years. The Chargers figured it out when River's and Gate's torched us a few years back. The Manning led Broncos found more kinks after we beat them in the SB. And the Pats and Falcons and frankly most teams with competent qb's and a solid gameplan exploit the weaknesses every time they play us. Even at full strength, the defense has trouble stopping the 10-15 yard plays that are designed to find the gaps in our middle zone, and our db's and lb's constantly get caught in a trailing position or get washed out when trying to defend mid crossing routes. Our D, as solid as it is, cant defend certain plays if we don't get a good pass rush. We're solid 90% of the time, but that 10% can be exploited throughout a game if we dont get pressure. Don't know whether to call it a fatal flaw necessarily because if we can get pressure, the QB doesn't have the time for those handful of plays to work. But its been fatal because our D is one that does not adapt. We lineup and play. And unfortunately this year, get beat. Over and over and over again.

Hawk_Nation wrote:Than the Seahawks and Chiefs (tied)..

Out of all the crazy stats I have seen this year, seeing this one really jumps out..

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/12/11/1 ... top-please

Seahawks are tied with the Kansas City Chiefs for most conversions allowed on 3rd and 10+ in the NFL this season. Both teams have given up 16 first-downs on 57 plays (excluding kneeldowns, “no plays” due to penalty, and field goal attempts).

With penalties it's easily first, without even looking. There are probably a minimum of 10 more via penalty.

Worst stat attached is Kris Richard's name. YOU HAVE to get off the field on third and long.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:Only thing that's worse than that statistic, is the article it was cited in. Fieldgulls makes me want to tear my eyeballs out these days.

West TX Hawk wrote:Pathetic. It's time for Kris Richard to take some heat because this is unacceptable. There is a fundamental flaw in our vanilla defensive scheme and Pete needs to address this immediately...but he won't.

How do you know scheme is the problem? Maybe it's the players.

I think it is both? Everyone knows we run a basic cover 3 almost all the time. We have been fortunate enough to have some of the best players in the league that know all the holes or are athletic enough or smart enough to dominate the opponent.

Everything is simple when you have the best players.

Now, we have tons of injuries to deal with, but has Richard changed anything up to protect them or play to their strengths? Or just adapt to opponent offense more. We might not have the players to just keep trucking along with the same scheme. I mean we can, but obviously it’s not going to work as well as it once did, and teams will take advantage.

They blitz more than you think on 3rd and longs. The problem is they are not well disguised and easy to pick up. Kris also loves to play soft zone which is a recipe for disaster. The results speak for themselves.

He is the epidemy of the coaching staff. Do less with more, and get out-matched nearly every week.

Pete's foundational beliefs can only go so far, the talent of the roster namely Wilson is what is keeping this sinking ship afloat.

Dude is handed 9 Pro Bowlers on defense with tons of depth, and can barely keep them in the top 10. Laughable.

Fade wrote:They blitz more than you think on 3rd and longs. The problem is they are not well disguised and easy to pick up. Kris also loves to play soft zone which is a recipe for disaster. The results speak for themselves.

He is the epidemy of the coaching staff. Do less with more, and get out-matched nearly every week.

Pete's foundational beliefs can only go so far, the talent of the roster namely Wilson is what is keeping this sinking ship afloat.

Dude is handed 9 Pro Bowlers on defense with tons of depth, and can barely keep them in the top 10. Laughable.

Wonder how many of those 3rd and +10s have come since Avril went down and Sherman and Kam.

Something tells me that this number probably correlates with having the most 3rd and 10+ situations. It's a double-edged sword....on the one hand, we do well enough to have so many 3rd and long situations, and on the other, we give up too many of them. We obviously aren't giving up 1st downs that often on 1st and 10 or 2nd and ten, and as stated already in this thread, it's been going on for what seems like the entirety or Carroll's tenure here. One would think that it could possibly be something in the defensive philosophy that allows it, but as we've had one of the top defenses over that same period of time, it makes sense that it hasn't been considered a huge issue.

I hope one of the film guys does a breakdown on these issues, especially focusing on the pass rush in these situations. I'd love to know why our guys aren't getting home and what other teams that are more successful are doing.

Imagine how much better this defense would be if we were in even the middle on the pack of this stat.

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:

MontanaHawk05 wrote:Only thing that's worse than that statistic, is the article it was cited in. Fieldgulls makes me want to tear my eyeballs out these days.

West TX Hawk wrote:Pathetic. It's time for Kris Richard to take some heat because this is unacceptable. There is a fundamental flaw in our vanilla defensive scheme and Pete needs to address this immediately...but he won't.

How do you know scheme is the problem? Maybe it's the players.

I think it is both? Everyone knows we run a basic cover 3 almost all the time. We have been fortunate enough to have some of the best players in the league that know all the holes or are athletic enough or smart enough to dominate the opponent.

Everything is simple when you have the best players.

Now, we have tons of injuries to deal with, but has Richard changed anything up to protect them or play to their strengths? Or just adapt to opponent offense more. We might not have the players to just keep trucking along with the same scheme. I mean we can, but obviously it’s not going to work as well as it once did, and teams will take advantage.

The most byzantine, exotic, amoebic coverage scheme won't help if you have Brian Russell and Kelly Jennings manning it.

Our corners are getting beaten on tough throw after tough throw - in MAN coverage, not zone. Maxwell and Griffin are not cutting the mustard. Nobody wants to hear that, especially on Griffin, because nobody wants to consider that we made a mediocre pick and are stuck with it for a while. But if Blake Bortles is able to make these tosses (and I'll admit I underrated him, but still), it's the talent I'm looking at.

We had this issue way too often last season as well. I don't have the solution for it, but it is rearing it's ugly head once again this year. It is very frustrating to watch them hold for 2 down then cave in on 3rd again and again. It's not just the corners either, I think it has more to do with scheme personally but haven't really studied the issue.

I think we might overrate Griffin as a fanbase, but he wasn't the problem last week. Maxwell gave up around 115 yards and a TD. Griffin is pretty good as a rookie. Lattimore and White are amazing but they were first rounders for a reason.

Thing is, last year Atlanta lost Trufant to IR and their corners did fine in man. They had Robert Alford, Jalem Collins, and Brian Poole. Our guys are better and more experienced and they haven't been able to hold up. Imagine if Lane was out there....

Can anyone remember if the Coleman blitz was on 3rd down? Fairly sure it was.

That was an absolute work of art, apprecaite you can't be corner blitzing every 3 down, however.

Getting off the field on 3rd down is going to be critical against the Rams this Sunday, no doubt the coaching staff know this.

keasley45 wrote:This isnt a matter of playing soft. Its a weakness in our defense that has been exploited now for almost 4 years. The Chargers figured it out when River's and Gate's torched us a few years back. The Manning led Broncos found more kinks after we beat them in the SB. And the Pats and Falcons and frankly most teams with competent qb's and a solid gameplan exploit the weaknesses every time they play us. Even at full strength, the defense has trouble stopping the 10-15 yard plays that are designed to find the gaps in our middle zone, and our db's and lb's constantly get caught in a trailing position or get washed out when trying to defend mid crossing routes. Our D, as solid as it is, cant defend certain plays if we don't get a good pass rush. We're solid 90% of the time, but that 10% can be exploited throughout a game if we dont get pressure. Don't know whether to call it a fatal flaw necessarily because if we can get pressure, the QB doesn't have the time for those handful of plays to work. But its been fatal because our D is one that does not adapt. We lineup and play. And unfortunately this year, get beat. Over and over and over again.

very interesting point but if that's the case then why do the Falcons not suffer from this problem? and before you bring up Dan Quin wasn't he the defensive coordinator during that SD game? I think all evidence points towards the players here

edit: i was thinking scheme with my response, but you might have been talking about our scheme and players