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When the other team is in the Victory formation

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  • Why are we attacking them? The game is over, the chances of a takeaway are zero and it does no good.

    In this case, ti will do serious damage, especially if Bennett and others are suspended for next week's Ram game.
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  • Because we are sore losers and mentally immature.
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  • Trying to get a fumbled QB exchange. Coach Carroll preaches "always compete" so that's what they're doing.

    I don't care for it personally, if another team was rushing Wilson when trying to kneel I'd be pissed. Wish they'd just cut it out, but they won't
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  • Spoiled babies that can't get their way on the field resorting to cheap shots is what I saw.

    Thanks for turning us into the Rams for a weekend Michael. :pukeface:
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  • I actually disagree. The chances are slim but the qb can fumble the snap. I say hit the center as hard as you can
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  • There could be a problem on the center QB exchange, you could see them trying to collapse the center, or maybe they are poor sports who cannot lose with class. I recall Greg Schiano getting a lot of pushback for doing this on kneel downs while coaching Tampa Bay.
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  • I have no problem with Bennett swatting at the ball as it's slapped hoping to time it just right. Everything that happend after that sucked though
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  • Jerhawk wrote:Trying to get a fumbled QB exchange. Coach Carroll preaches "always compete" so that's what they're doing.

    I don't care for it personally, if another team was rushing Wilson when trying to kneel I'd be pissed. Wish they'd just cut it out, but they won't


    I am sure Pete wants them to do it. How likely is it to succeed though?
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  • Because they can get away with it. No accountability no discipline. If Pete had any balls he benches Bennett the next game Marcus Peters style
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  • Cyrus12 wrote:Because they can get away with it. No accountability no discipline. If Pete had any balls he benches Bennett the next game Marcus Peters style

    I'm sure the NFL is taking care of that. If they don't I agree with you. Pete has to show them that their actions have consequences.
    "It's payback, Russell Wilson falling way back, in the draft, turn nothing into something"
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  • rossob wrote:
    Jerhawk wrote:Trying to get a fumbled QB exchange. Coach Carroll preaches "always compete" so that's what they're doing.

    I don't care for it personally, if another team was rushing Wilson when trying to kneel I'd be pissed. Wish they'd just cut it out, but they won't


    I am sure Pete wants them to do it. How likely is it to succeed though?


    Exactly. It's highly unlikely.

    A few seasons back Tom Coughlin got heated with the Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano for doing that stuff. Surprised no other coach has gotten upset with Carroll after the game yet
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  • rossob wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:Because they can get away with it. No accountability no discipline. If Pete had any balls he benches Bennett the next game Marcus Peters style

    I'm sure the NFL is taking care of that. If they don't I agree with you. Pete has to show them that their actions have consequences.


    Consequences from Pete? LOL, I think not. When asked if he would sit a player for penalties 2-3 weeks ago Pete said yes if it comes to that, not there yet. ifedi lead (and still does I believe), the entire NFL penalties at the time and was coming off a game with several. Don't hold your breath.
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  • It is a complete BS move and everybody knows it.
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  • Total bush league. Every one of you condoning it would be screaming bloody murder if a team did it to us. There are kneel downs in half the games and no one else does it. Well the Bucs did it under Chiano but he is an Ahole. It's unwritten rule. You don't do it.
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  • HawkerD wrote:Total bush league. Every one of you condoning it would be screaming bloody murder if a team did it to us. There are kneel downs in half the games and no one else does it. Well the Bucs did it under Chiano but he is an Ahole. It's unwritten rule. You don't do it.


    Maybe, but it is still not a rule and shit was getting heated all night. Not surprised any of this happened given the tone of the entire game.
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  • Nothing but dirty football......lose with class!!
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  • peppersjap wrote:Nothing but dirty football......lose with class!!


    I know. That face mask that yanked Ifedi to the ground was nasty right?
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  • If the Hawks were in “always compete” mode during the victory formation they would have called their last time out after the run before it. But they didn’t. They let the clock run because the game was over. This was just dirty play. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  • Cyrus12 wrote:Because they can get away with it. No accountability no discipline. If Pete had any balls he benches Bennett the next game Marcus Peters style


    I don't see Pete suspending anyone, he brings in certain types of players and encourages them to be themselves. The NFL, on the other hand, may very well hand out suspensions, maybe to Bennett but almost certainly to Jefferson.

    Trying to go into the stands is a huge no-no, something the NBA learned a few years ago with the Pistons in Auburn Hills. Anything that happens on the field can be sorted out, and other players, refs and coaches can generally restore order. Going into an opposing team's stands is an opportunity to create a truly ugly situation.
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  • Tusc2000 wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:Because they can get away with it. No accountability no discipline. If Pete had any balls he benches Bennett the next game Marcus Peters style


    I don't see Pete suspending anyone, he brings in certain types of players and encourages them to be themselves. The NFL, on the other hand, may very well hand out suspensions, maybe to Bennett but almost certainly to Jefferson.

    Trying to go into the stands is a huge no-no, something the NBA learned a few years ago with the Pistons in Auburn Hills. Anything that happens on the field can be sorted out, and other players, refs and coaches can generally restore order. Going into an opposing team's stands is an opportunity to create a truly ugly situation.


    The thing with Jefferson is he didn't actually make it though, and I can understand him losing his cool with people throwing stuff at him. It's a bad look for sure, but I think a letter and a hefty cash fine is appropriate.

    Bennett, on the other hand, tried to injure an opposing player after the Seahawks had effectively given up, and then tried to injure him again after the play was over when it didn't work the first time.

    I think that should be a multiple game suspension. It's just not tolerable at all. That said I also thought Gronkowski should have gotten a multiple game suspension and he just got a one game suspension, so I think a one game suspension is appropriate. (In my ideal world both those guys miss 2-4 games).

    Final Verdict:

    Jefferson: Cash fine.
    Bennett: One game suspension.

    (although I can see them both getting cash fines or both getting suspensions too -- my guess is the NFL isn't nearly as tolerant of a player trying to get into the stands as I am).

    As for PC taking it upon himself to sit anyone down, :lol: :lol: , c'mon.
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  • I don't care if you paid for your ticket. It does not give you the right to throw trash at an NFL player.
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  • hawksbydesign wrote:I don't care if you paid for your ticket. It does not give you the right to throw trash at an NFL player.

    Agreed. It was classless by those fans. As was al the other crap, from the diving durng the kneel, the fighting on both sides, the insults as people were walking out, etc.

    Those fans, if caught, should be banned for life. It's not just classless, it's dangerous.
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  • It sounds like at least 4 different Seahawks had food/drinks thrown at them from the stands, 3 of them before this incident, and that is only what we have heard about so far, less than 24 hours after the game. I wonder how much other crap went on that we haven't heard about?

    I am absolutely NOT defending what the Seahawks did at the end of the game, especially Bennett, but I can certainly understand why they were so pissed off.
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  • Chapow wrote:It sounds like at least 4 different Seahawks had food/drinks thrown at them from the stands, 3 of them before this incident, and that is only what we have heard about so far, less than 24 hours after the game. I wonder how much other crap went on that we haven't heard about?

    I am absolutely NOT defending what the Seahawks did at the end of the game, especially Bennett, but I can certainly understand why they were so pissed off.


    Not defending or minimizing the craptitude of any fan who throws food or drinks on players (...although some folks here have ;) ) and IMO the Jags fans who threw stuff should be banned for life, but again though, this isn't an isolated incident.

    It's hard to say the Hawks were riled up by the fans when they got dirty and tried to fight/injure their opponents after effectively losing several times before also (against the Falcons last year, and against the Pats in the SB -- was there another time too?)

    There's a pattern of this Hawks team doing this that exists WELL BEYOND this case of bad behavior by opposing fans.
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  • Pete should have called that last time out instead of running out onto the field. Should have gathered the team together and got all up in their faces about the proper way to handle the situation. Maybe even subbing every player and replacing them with anybody just for that last kneel down.

    The whole situation was ugly and the coaches mis-handled it.
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  • stang233 wrote:I actually disagree. The chances are slim but the qb can fumble the snap. I say hit the center as hard as you can

    Yep.....And it's not "Resorting To Cheap Shots" it's >RETURNING< the favor for dirty play tactics all game long by the Jags, and sanctioned by their Coaches.
    It's probably just a coincidence that both Bobby Wagner & KJ Wright BOTH end up with concussion protocol, but there's nothing "Coincidental" when SEVERAL Jag players breech the No Play Zone with a late out of bounds hit and proceed to take down opposing Coaches.....ZERO Sportsmanship & DIRTY PLAY, and the Seahawks were suppose to just turn the other damned cheek?....Maybe in the Jax bible.
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  • sutz wrote:Pete should have called that last time out instead of running out onto the field. Should have gathered the team together and got all up in their faces about the proper way to handle the situation. Maybe even subbing every player and replacing them with anybody just for that last kneel down.

    The whole situation was ugly and the coaches mis-handled it.


    Agreed, but whatever it was, it didn't ultimately matter and it's good he intervened. I'm guessing he didn't call the timeout b/c he was just trying to get the situation handled as quickly as possible.

    TBH given that the Hawks were already penalized on that play I would have been totally fine with the refs turning a blind eye to him heading out to center field, given his clear intent.

    Still though, I agree with you in that I think it would have BEEN much better for optics for him to call the timeout, bring them all to the sideline, and chew them all the heck out rather than running out the the middle of the field, calmy telling them to cut it out, and then heading back.

    Not that it's in his style to chew his guys out even when they deserve it, but it would have come off better probably.
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  • The victory formation has not always been a part of the NFL or even football at any level for that matter. Just google Joe Pisarcik if you aren't sure what I am talking about. The game isn't over until the last second has ticked off the board or you no longer have to snap the ball because the play clock has more time than the game clock. The argument can be made and is made that the unwritten rule is that the game is over and you fairly concede the game to the other team. Technically though, the game is still being played and yes, there is a chance to get the ball back. This is why the victory formation is tight with all players bunched up around the ball except for a player a few yards behind the QB as a safety valve. The defensive team, by all rights within the rules can still try to get the ball back. The offense at this point is essentially playing defense of protecting the ball.

    The NFL could just put in a rule that automatically ends the game when an offense is able to use the victory formation. If its an unwritten rule then maybe they should. If an opposing team gets their feelings hurt because a team is still competing to the end, then that is on them. Go hard and compete until the end, but keep the dirty illegal crap out of there. I'm not sure what Bennett hoped to gain by rolling himself into the o-lineman but if he had tried a bullrush would it possibly been more effective?

    The game isn't over til its over. The Center and QB could easily mess up the exchange.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:The game isn't over til its over. The Center and QB could easily mess up the exchange.


    I think you're correctly addressing one problem with this argument (i.e. that's not how anyone actually plays the game), but the other problem with this argument in this situation is that the Hawks had already conceded the game.

    They still had a timeout and were just letting the clock run through the victory formation. If they were trying to still compete they would have used their timeout. Instead, they were just being sore losers/trying to hurt someone a la the Falcons game and Pats game. You don't dive into an unprepared person's legs both during and again after the play as a form of competition.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:The game isn't over til its over. The Center and QB could easily mess up the exchange.


    I think you're correctly addressing one problem with this argument (i.e. that's not how anyone actually plays the game), but the other problem with this argument in this situation is that the Hawks had already conceded the game.

    They still had a timeout and were just letting the clock run through the victory formation. If they were trying to still compete they would have used their timeout. Instead, they were just being sore losers/trying to hurt someone a la the Falcons game and Pats game. You don't dive into an unprepared person's legs both during and again after the play as a form of competition.


    Just because Pete isn't calling the timeout doesn't mean that the players intention isn't to try to make a play, even if the odds are against it. Whether it's true or not, Pete said this morning that Bennett was lined up low, not to make any type of block, but to try to interrupt the exchange between Center/QB.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:The victory formation has not always been a part of the NFL or even football at any level for that matter. Just google Joe Pisarcik if you aren't sure what I am talking about. The game isn't over until the last second has ticked off the board or you no longer have to snap the ball because the play clock has more time than the game clock. The argument can be made and is made that the unwritten rule is that the game is over and you fairly concede the game to the other team. Technically though, the game is still being played and yes, there is a chance to get the ball back. This is why the victory formation is tight with all players bunched up around the ball except for a player a few yards behind the QB as a safety valve. The defensive team, by all rights within the rules can still try to get the ball back. The offense at this point is essentially playing defense of protecting the ball.

    The NFL could just put in a rule that automatically ends the game when an offense is able to use the victory formation. If its an unwritten rule then maybe they should. If an opposing team gets their feelings hurt because a team is still competing to the end, then that is on them. Go hard and compete until the end, but keep the dirty illegal crap out of there. I'm not sure what Bennett hoped to gain by rolling himself into the o-lineman but if he had tried a bullrush would it possibly been more effective?

    The game isn't over til its over. The Center and QB could easily mess up the exchange.


    You are missing the point. We are all just fat asses sitting on the couch implying that one highly paid player should "do anything to still try and win an unwinnable game" and in the process, if an opposing players career gets ended, so be it. Don't forget the shoe can be on the other foot the next time when our player is injured on a meaningless play.

    The winner has earned the right to line up in victory formation. The Hawks had there chances and did not execute too many times to mention (Baldwin, Graham, Walsh, Punt coverage team, WILSON!!!). Suck it up and go down like champions and not CHUMPS!! How about stopping Fournette on 3rd and 11!!!!!!!

    The victory formation is analogous for the Golden Rule. Do unto others.........(you know the rest)

    We are becoming the embodiment of the Roman crowds screaming for blood in the coliseum. Its sad.
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  • Nothing Bennett did was dangerous. Offensive lineman use cut blocks all the time. Bennett was trying to mess up the snap in a last ditch effort because he is a competitor. The center was not hurt; though maybe he should have been after grabbing another man's junk.
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  • The victory formation is a tactical line up to protect the last few snaps of the game. It’s literally designed to protect from failure because the game is not over. It’s not ceremonial and shouldn’t be treated like that if the game can still be competitive.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:Nothing Bennett did was dangerous. Offensive lineman use cut blocks all the time. Bennett was trying to mess up the snap in a last ditch effort because he is a competitor. The center was not hurt; though maybe he should have been after grabbing another man's junk.

    You cannot possibly be serious. Watch a replay of the incident. By the time Bennett rolled into the center the play was long over. This was not an "attempt to mess up the snap", this was a blatantly dirty play a full 3-4 seconds after the play ended. This is not even remotely defensible (neither is the center provoking Bennett, but that does not warrant this level of retaliation). I am seriously in disbelief that there are people in this topic defending this.
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  • JimmyG wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Nothing Bennett did was dangerous. Offensive lineman use cut blocks all the time. Bennett was trying to mess up the snap in a last ditch effort because he is a competitor. The center was not hurt; though maybe he should have been after grabbing another man's junk.

    You cannot possibly be serious. Watch a replay of the incident. By the time Bennett rolled into the center the play was long over. This was not an "attempt to mess up the snap", this was a blatantly dirty play a full 3-4 seconds after the play ended. This is not even remotely defensible (neither is the center provoking Bennett, but that does not warrant this level of retaliation). I am seriously in disbelief that there are people in this topic defending this.


    No, I think you should re-watch the play. The ball is still being snapped when Bennett instantaneously rolls into a cut block to try to disrupt the snap. That was not after the whistle; it was a last ditch effort that occurred during the snap.



    The center grabbing Bennett's junk occurred after the whistle, as well as the rest of the melee that ensued.
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  • Carroll made clear during his interview today that Bennett was trying to disrupt the snap . . . and then things happened.

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  • hawknation2017 wrote:Carroll made clear during his interview today that Bennett was trying to disrupt the snap . . . and then things happened.



    And I don't have any issue with that. If you're within one score, you should be trying to get the ball back. What happened after the play ended though was a bit much....not suspension worthy, but definitely earned the penalty he got.
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Carroll made clear during his interview today that Bennett was trying to disrupt the snap . . . and then things happened.



    And I don't have any issue with that. If you're within one score, you should be trying to get the ball back. What happened after the play ended though was a bit much....not suspension worthy, but definitely earned the penalty he got.


    Yeah, the extracurriculars after that were definitely penalty/fine worthy. But I also think it was a reasonable reaction to having one's junk grabbed. The center deserved worse for that. He should be fined too.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:The center grabbing Bennett's junk occurred after the whistle, as well as the rest of the melee that ensued.

    I am referring to the "junk grab" and beyond. I thought Bennett, at the scuffle at the end of the play, took out the center from behind by rolling into him. I could be wrong, it is hard to fully see what happened because the view of the altercation is somewhat clipped in the replays.
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  • JimmyG wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:The center grabbing Bennett's junk occurred after the whistle, as well as the rest of the melee that ensued.

    I am referring to the "junk grab" and beyond. I thought Bennett, at the scuffle at the end of the play, took out the center from behind by rolling into him. I could be wrong, it is hard to fully see what happened because the view of the altercation is somewhat clipped in the replays.


    I thought Bennett wrestled him to the ground by his legs in response to the low blow.
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Carroll made clear during his interview today that Bennett was trying to disrupt the snap . . . and then things happened.



    And I don't have any issue with that. If you're within one score, you should be trying to get the ball back. What happened after the play ended though was a bit much....not suspension worthy, but definitely earned the penalty he got.


    Yeah, the extracurriculars after that were definitely penalty/fine worthy. But I also think it was a reasonable reaction to having one's junk grabbed. The center deserved worse for that. He should be fined too.


    Yeah, there was a lot of that kind of thing going on from both sides of the ball. I have no doubt about that. I was just trying to clear up a little bit of my opinion on Bennett. Pete purposely mentions the swipe at the ball but left out the extra stuff after the play. Too much of that from both teams. I can understand it to a point, but I don't have any issues with that type of play and I actually like the fact that he went after the ball on the victory formation. If teams don't like it let them line up and run an actual play. It's still football until the clock strikes zero whenever there's a one score game.
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  • I'm surprised people are that easily duped and manipulated by the TV commentators demonstrative reaction against Bennett. I thought these particular commentators were a very pro-AFC crew, who were surreptitiously rooting for the Seahawks to lose the entire time. The not "man of the year" attack was repeated several times. And it stuck with people as a reason to hate Bennett. Propaganda is effective.
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  • You seem to have a fixation with "junk." Perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

    :twisted:
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  • sutz wrote:You seem to have a fixation with "junk." Perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

    :twisted:


    I'm not sure what the appropriate term is to use in this forum. Maybe the Jaguars center should talk to someone about his inclination to touch another man's crotch.

    :pukeface:
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    sutz wrote:You seem to have a fixation with "junk." Perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

    :twisted:


    I'm not sure what the appropriate term is to use in this forum. Maybe the Jaguars center should talk to someone about his inclination to touch another man's crotch.

    :pukeface:

    :34853_doh:
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  • sutz wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    sutz wrote:You seem to have a fixation with "junk." Perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

    :twisted:


    I'm not sure what the appropriate term is to use in this forum. Maybe the Jaguars center should talk to someone about his inclination to touch another man's crotch.

    :pukeface:

    :34853_doh:


    What am I supposed to say? Your joke was awkward as hell.
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    hawknation2017
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  • Remember kids, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. Speculation will fill the voids if you don't.
    ~ HOLY CATFISH ~
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    MD5eahawks
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  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    JimmyG wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Nothing Bennett did was dangerous. Offensive lineman use cut blocks all the time. Bennett was trying to mess up the snap in a last ditch effort because he is a competitor. The center was not hurt; though maybe he should have been after grabbing another man's junk.

    You cannot possibly be serious. Watch a replay of the incident. By the time Bennett rolled into the center the play was long over. This was not an "attempt to mess up the snap", this was a blatantly dirty play a full 3-4 seconds after the play ended. This is not even remotely defensible (neither is the center provoking Bennett, but that does not warrant this level of retaliation). I am seriously in disbelief that there are people in this topic defending this.


    No, I think you should re-watch the play. The ball is still being snapped when Bennett instantaneously rolls into a cut block to try to disrupt the snap. That was not after the whistle; it was a last ditch effort that occurred during the snap.



    The center grabbing Bennett's junk occurred after the whistle, as well as the rest of the melee that ensued.


    I find your defense of Bennett atrocious but for the sake of homerism, can you defend this example of what happened with another victory formation against Seattle?

    xkj1985x
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  • Jerhawk wrote:Trying to get a fumbled QB exchange. Coach Carroll preaches "always compete" so that's what they're doing.

    I don't care for it personally, if another team was rushing Wilson when trying to kneel I'd be pissed. Wish they'd just cut it out, but they won't


    I'd buy this a bit more if we'd have used the timeout. If we really thought there was a chance to get the ball back we would need every second.
    Russell has some stats that aren't Superb? Ow! Love his balls anyways!

    SC
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    StoneCold
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  • xkj1985x wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    JimmyG wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:Nothing Bennett did was dangerous. Offensive lineman use cut blocks all the time. Bennett was trying to mess up the snap in a last ditch effort because he is a competitor. The center was not hurt; though maybe he should have been after grabbing another man's junk.

    You cannot possibly be serious. Watch a replay of the incident. By the time Bennett rolled into the center the play was long over. This was not an "attempt to mess up the snap", this was a blatantly dirty play a full 3-4 seconds after the play ended. This is not even remotely defensible (neither is the center provoking Bennett, but that does not warrant this level of retaliation). I am seriously in disbelief that there are people in this topic defending this.


    No, I think you should re-watch the play. The ball is still being snapped when Bennett instantaneously rolls into a cut block to try to disrupt the snap. That was not after the whistle; it was a last ditch effort that occurred during the snap.



    The center grabbing Bennett's junk occurred after the whistle, as well as the rest of the melee that ensued.


    I find your defense of Bennett atrocious but for the sake of homerism, can you defend this example of what happened with another victory formation against Seattle?



    Bennett did NOTHING there. What's your point?
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