FG article on FA OL

McGruff

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Jville

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Excellent article. Good detail.

I hope blame game advocates and family feud posters take the time to read and make the effort to comprehend the article. Comprehension would eliminate a lot of unnecessary noise and enrich the forum.

When Tom Cable said they were starting over with the offensive line, he meant it. It wasn't coach speak. No degree of kicking or screaming or name calling will change that decision. Such terrible behavior only reinforces the meaning of the phrase .... "ignore the noise".

Thanks for posting the link :2thumbs: most welcomed!
 

GeekHawk

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I wish he would choose people who have ever played O-line before, though. These D-line retraining projects start out terrible, and by the time he gets them half-way trained they are ready to leave in free agency. So we seemingly always have terrible O-linemen. Just because Cable thinks it's easier to train them from scratch at the professional level instead of taking care of a few bad habits on college O-linemen.
 

McGruff

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GeekHawk":1i78z8zl said:
I wish he would choose people who have ever played O-line before, though. These D-line retraining projects start out terrible, and by the time he gets them half-way trained they are ready to leave in free agency. So we seemingly always have terrible O-linemen. Just because Cable thinks it's easier to train them from scratch at the professional level instead of taking care of a few bad habits on college O-linemen.

Need a new narrative. None of our starting 5 were defensive linemen in college. None of our back OL were defensive linemen in college.

We have two conversion projects left. One has been playing OL at a pro level for 3 years now (Gilliam) so he hardly counts anymore. The other is Fant. Both were blocking TES as seniors in college, so playing OL isn't a stretch.

Time for a new narrative.
 

Jville

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GeekHawk":1jr5os4n said:
I wish he would choose people who have ever played O-line before, though. These D-line retraining projects start out terrible, and by the time he gets them half-way trained they are ready to leave in free agency. So we seemingly always have terrible O-linemen. Just because Cable thinks it's easier to train them from scratch at the professional level instead of taking care of a few bad habits on college O-linemen.

Any notion that Tom Cable is tied to one and only one methodology is the stuff of myths.

Cable has been receptive to all avenues of searching for and developing players. He has specifically noted that there is a great deal of variation in what is available from year to year. Each year features a unique mix of college talent and a unique mix of free agency talent. Both Tom Cable and John Schneider have noted that each years approach and resulting acquisitions are unique to that specific year.

They will repeat themselves again in that regard ..... during next years search. Speaking, once again, to unique opportunities available. This time for 2017.
 

McGruff

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This is really a well researched article that deserves more attention than its getting. Shame so few are taking it seriously.
 

justafan

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Free agency is cyclical, some years you are lucky and can sign some defensive lineman like Bennett and Avril, other years you can sign some Olineman or DBs.

OTs are expensive.If you cant draft them or dont want to sign your own, you pay the price for someone elses when the opportunity comes along.I think Webb was a panic move.According to sports trac we have a dead money hit for Webb thats almost as much as we pay our 4 OTs on the roster.

Either way you pay the price for your decisions. With wins and losses and poor offensive performance or with the checkbook.

Hopefully the ones we have will develop and be worth signing to a second contract.
 

NFSeahawks

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Jville":1dvjyr6g said:
Excellent article. Good detail.

I hope blame game advocates and family feud posters take the time to read and make the effort to comprehend the article. Comprehension would eliminate a lot of unnecessary noise and enrich the forum.

When Tom Cable said they were starting over with the offensive line, he meant it. It wasn't coach speak. No degree of kicking or screaming or name calling will change that decision. Such terrible behavior only reinforces the meaning of the phrase .... "ignore the noise".

Thanks for posting the link :2thumbs: most welcomed!

The rose-colored-glass bevell posters will only talk about how this issue with Bevell is just a fad. Comprehension brings about discussion, ignorance and complacency pushes it away.

Also, no the offensive line and Bevell are separate entities, people will still criticize Bevell for calling for horrible play calls just like they always have. People will still complain about missing on the offensive line in drafts and signing horrible free agents to cover for it.

In unrealistic eyes the team is perfect, incapable of becoming better. Good enough suffices.

Rave on, rave on.

:2thumbs:
 

hawk45

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McGruff":1rxgslsg said:
GeekHawk":1rxgslsg said:
I wish he would choose people who have ever played O-line before, though. These D-line retraining projects start out terrible, and by the time he gets them half-way trained they are ready to leave in free agency. So we seemingly always have terrible O-linemen. Just because Cable thinks it's easier to train them from scratch at the professional level instead of taking care of a few bad habits on college O-linemen.

Need a new narrative. None of our starting 5 were defensive linemen in college. None of our back OL were defensive linemen in college.

We have two conversion projects left. One has been playing OL at a pro level for 3 years now (Gilliam) so he hardly counts anymore. The other is Fant. Both were blocking TES as seniors in college, so playing OL isn't a stretch.

Time for a new narrative.

Gilliam has regressed and Fant is horribly inconsistent as we would expect from players learning the position. They may not have come from the DL but the trend of mad scientist projects takin too long to round into shape is why our line stands out among the bad ones in the league.

The panthers had a "bad" and injured line and Newton had oceans more time than Wilson.

There is "NFL bad" and then there is "Tom Cable" bad.
 

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The guy who is struggling more than he should is 1st round pick Ifedi. Yes he's a rookie but despite how smart (besides powerful) he loooks, a lot of teams' D lines target him with success. A good, recent, important example was that run play on 2nd and goal from the 1 on TNF against the Rams, Glow took the DE out but Ifedi tried to too instead of blocking Ogletree - and so Reece got hammered in the backfield. It's no wonder the next play called was a pass instead.
 

McGruff

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LeftHandSmoke":3pd3uydt said:
The guy who is struggling more than he should is 1st round pick Ifedi. Yes he's a rookie but despite how smart (besides powerful) he loooks, a lot of teams' D lines target him with success. A good, recent, important example was that run play on 2nd and goal from the 1 on TNF against the Rams, Glow took the DE out but Ifedi tried to too instead of blocking Ogletree - and so Reece got hammered in the backfield. It's no wonder the next play called was a pass instead.

One could point to that as an example of how even drafting "experienced college OL" is an exercise in patience. It just takes time. Coaches can be patient. Fans, evidently, cannot.
 

kobebryant

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Gotta be careful for sure for sure. We would have been pretty excited to sign Alex Boone and Andre Smith like the Vikings did - but their line is terrible and their also paying a decent amount of money for that suck.
 

MontanaHawk05

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hawk45":1dpxw3nw said:
The panthers had a "bad" and injured line and Newton had oceans more time than Wilson.

That's because Carolina played in max protect most of the game. Which is part of why they lost.
 

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McGruff":36o9g7l2 said:
LeftHandSmoke":36o9g7l2 said:
The guy who is struggling more than he should is 1st round pick Ifedi. Yes he's a rookie but despite how smart (besides powerful) he loooks, a lot of teams' D lines target him with success. A good, recent, important example was that run play on 2nd and goal from the 1 on TNF against the Rams, Glow took the DE out but Ifedi tried to too instead of blocking Ogletree - and so Reece got hammered in the backfield. It's no wonder the next play called was a pass instead.

One could point to that as an example of how even drafting "experienced college OL" is an exercise in patience. It just takes time. Coaches can be patient. Fans, evidently, cannot.
For sure, coaches and the FO have a much longer-timeline perspective than what normal fans do. And perhaps some of these youngsters on the OL will indeed work out well given more maturation.

Someone posted above somewhere noting that Cable spoke of a complete rebuild during the offseason and how that is extactly what happened. I think that the decision was made after the 31-0 shellacking at the Panthers in last year's playoff game. That line was not good enough to reach the next level, so why waste time.
 

Hawks46

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McGruff":3ni8g39b said:
EverydayImRusselin":3ni8g39b said:

I thought it was brilliant piece that effectively rebuts those who say "just sign some FA linemen!"

What you end up with is below average players on above average contracts which is a recipe for cap mired mediocrity. It's what Tim Rusk ell was famous for.

Almost like the folks that keep saying "well just draft a bunch of OL in the 1st round" not realizing that a lot of 1st rounders don't really make much of a difference their 1st year, even if they are drafted in the 1st round.

I know what the Hawks are doing, I just wish we could keep a few veteran OL and work in 1 to 2 youngers guys for development, instead of developing our entire OL from year to year, thus resetting the continuity as well.
 

LolaRox

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Interesting article and I also wonder when people say they haven't spent any money on the Oline who those people would like to spend money on. When you ask those people they have no answer.

My biggest problem with Cable is that he doesn't seem to be a good talent evaluator or developer. No matter where they get the talent - 1st round , 2nd round, former DE/TE... whatever, he doesn't develop them past 'getting through'. Every team is working with the same pool of players, but year after year the Hawks line is at the bottom of the league.

I don't hide the fact that I'm not a fan of Cable and haven't been going back to his Atlanta days. I think he is overrated and gets way to much credit from the media. Let them tell it Cable is doing wonders with the 'leftovers' the team gives him and the truth is they have invested heavily in the Oline with draft capital. Cable is an integral part of choosing those players, they aren't forced on him.

His Oline stinks and so does his run game without Russ to make it go. I am tired of waiting for him and the Oline to catch up every year and wasting a championship defense and sacrificing Russ' development. He should go.
 

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EverydayImRusselin":igitmzlw said:

I thought about bumping the above quote yesterday because it address the issues surrounding current offensive lines so very well. There are plenty of other fans and teams fretting over offensive lines. Another article that adds to the OL woes described in the OP linked above comes from an Indianapolis Colts perspective and is linked here >>>>>> [urltargetblank]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000757923/article/andrew-luck-will-have-35th-different-oline-sunday[/urltargetblank]

A deeper dive into NFLGSIS stats shows that the Colts are tied for first in unique starting offensive lineups this year with 13. The Jets, Eagles, Vikings, Browns, Bills and Cardinals have also needed 13 different starting lineups for one reason or another. For a reference point, the Rams and 49ers have had the fewest starting lineups (8). It's not necessarily indicative of success.

Of course, the Colts are not simply a team with a bad, oft-injured offensive line. They've invested heavily at the position over the years but have struggled to see their prospects grow beyond lofty rookie expectations.

I'm looking forward to seeing the beginning of second contract extensions for the offensive line. If Justin Britt continues to emerge as the much needed replacement for Max Unger, that would certainly be the beginning of a much welcomed outcome.
 
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