Punt/Kick Returns

fenderbender123 · Oct 17, 2016

Is it just me, or have we been lacking in our return yardage on kicks and punts since the early part of last year? Do we miss Ricardo Lockette's blocking that much? Or is there something else happening?

Nothinbutm · Oct 17, 2016

Lockett was definitely not his usual self yesterday on returns. He hasn't regained his usual speed. That definitely has something to do with it.

UK_Seahawk · Oct 17, 2016

fenderbender123":2t6c7d8b said:
Is it just me, or have we been lacking in our return yardage on kicks and punts since the early part of last year? Do we miss Ricardo Lockette's blocking that much? Or is there something else happening?

Tyler Lockett is clearly suffering still. I'd bench him and get him back to 100%.

NFSeahawks · Oct 17, 2016

fenderbender123":k8zcvv7i said:
Is it just me, or have we been lacking in our return yardage on kicks and punts since the early part of last year? Do we miss Ricardo Lockette's blocking that much? Or is there something else happening?

Lockett is more hurt than the team is letting on. It's obvious in his lack of burst or speed through gaps.

It was quite obvious in yesterday's game as well.

tmobilchawker79 · Oct 17, 2016

If Spiller could catch I'd say put him back there...

hawker84 · Oct 17, 2016

I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

Smellyman · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":1bta5bhf said:
I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

haha. You are very very wrong.

he was a pro bowler as a returner.

He helped bury the Cardinals with 3 big punt returns.

He was 3rd in punt returns last year and 3rd in kickoffs. had a punt return td and a KO return TD.

Heck even hurt he is 6th in punt returns this year.

Breaks some ankles against Arizona. Doesn't have cutting ability? I have read some ludicrous things, but that may take the cake. he breaks ankles in route running too.

[youtube]7Us__59clhU[/youtube]

jdemps · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":39jmaf7b said:
I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

I want what he's smoking.

mistaowen · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":355pqtas said:
I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

haha what? His return ability is why JS took him in the 3rd. Last year I was beyond impressed with his patience and sudden burst through the lane. He clearly is still nursing an injury, it was very apparent with the tentativeness he showed turning up field. Until he feels 100%, someone else should take those duties, but he is the return man for the foreseeable future.

hawker84 · Oct 17, 2016

mistaowen":2rs1yvs2 said:
hawker84":2rs1yvs2 said:

I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

Click to expand...

haha what? His return ability is why JS took him in the 3rd. Last year I was beyond impressed with his patience and sudden burst through the lane. He clearly is still nursing an injury, it was very apparent with the tentativeness he showed turning up field. Until he feels 100%, someone else should take those duties, but he is the return man for the foreseeable future.

I could care less if that's why JS took him (what Snyders never been wrong on a draft?) At the NFL level he does not look like a top tier returner, yes he's taken two to the house, but if you rewatch them, he had big lanes. Laugh all you want. let's compare Tyler Locketts return style compared to golden tate, not even in the same league. Not to mention Leon Washington, Deon Sanders, Hester, Harvin, Gale Sayers just to name a few. Again just my opinion, you're certainly entitled to yours.

johnnyfever · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":1unsn6xd said:
mistaowen":1unsn6xd said:

hawker84":1unsn6xd said:

I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

Click to expand...

haha what? His return ability is why JS took him in the 3rd. Last year I was beyond impressed with his patience and sudden burst through the lane. He clearly is still nursing an injury, it was very apparent with the tentativeness he showed turning up field. Until he feels 100%, someone else should take those duties, but he is the return man for the foreseeable future.

Click to expand...

I could care less if that's why JS took him (what Snyders never been wrong on a draft?) At the NFL level he does not look like a top tier returner, yes he's taken two to the house, but if you rewatch them, he had big lanes. Laugh all you want. let's compare Tyler Locketts return style compared to golden tate, not even in the same league. Not to mention Leon Washington, Deon Sanders, Hester, Harvin, Gale Sayers just to name a few. Again just my opinion, you're certainly entitled to yours.

Thanks for posting your "feelings", but the numbers don't back you up as far as him not being a good returner.

Sgt. Largent · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":2gteo9ap said:
I'm just going to say it, Tyler Lockett is not a very good return guy, and I think it has nothing to do with injury. He does not have that vision and cutting ability you need to make people miss like Doug Baldwin or Golden Tate. Speed he has and if he get's a lane he's gone, but he'll never be as good as say Percy or Leon if he's got to create lanes or juke people.. Punt and kick returners are just a different breed, you either have it or you don't. JMO....

Huh?

Dude went to the pro bowl last year, as a rookie with two returns for TD's and six over 40 yards.

But he's hurt, that's the reason. Period.

Maybe a little of it is our return units aren't as good as they were in years past with guys like Ricardo Lockette wrecking fools, but 90% of it this year is Tyler's hurt.........and without his burst he's mortal on kick and punt returns.

hawker84 · Oct 17, 2016

I get it he was a pro bowler last year, he had a decent season.. what has he done this year?

Seahawks 2016
Kick/Punt return rank #29

Punt return 12.6 average
Kick return 17.7 average

Last season they finished the season ranked 14th.

Not saying he's bad, not saying he's not effective at times. Just saying he's nothing special in the kick return game thus far.... Maybe he is hurt and that's affecting him. I would find it odd they keep throwing him out on the field if he is indeed injured, especially to return kicks and punts?

johnnyfever · Oct 17, 2016

As has been said, he is hurt this year. He hasn't been that great in receiving either. We know what he can do, just let him heal up for the postseason. He is fine to be on the field and make a few catches in the games, but we can't expect the guy from last year yet, and should be limiting his exposure.

Are you guys suggesting cutting him to get someone else? Not sure I understand what this thread is suggesting. If so, with our cap issues, who in the hell do you think we can afford that would do better?

tmobilchawker79 · Oct 17, 2016

There's also ten other guys on the field that have to do their job.

Oh, and there's eleven Falcons trying to do theirs.

No E is a great returner. He's not 100% fit. Falcon's ST's did a good job yesterday as well and even then he almost broke one big return.

kidhawk · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":39n9uist said:
I get it he was a pro bowler last year, he had a decent season.. what has he done this year?

Seahawks 2016
Kick/Punt return rank #29

Punt return 12.6 average
Kick return 17.7 average

Last season they finished the season ranked 14th.

Not saying he's bad, not saying he's not effective at times. Just saying he's nothing special in the kick return game thus far.... Maybe he is hurt and that's affecting him. I would find it odd they keep throwing him out on the field if he is indeed injured, especially to return kicks and punts?

You're not saying he's bad, yet in your earlier post, you flat out said he's not very good. There's barely a negligible difference between the two phrases.

How you can take stats from when he's playing injured and use them as a basis for his overall talent eludes any and all forms of logic.

If you wanted to say that he's not playing up to par right now, and that his injury may be part of it, people would be on board with it, but when a guy is in the pro bowl one year (and he earned that pro bowl spot), then the next year he gets hurt and his production drops, logic would dictate needing to see him healthy before declaring any lack of talent, and nobody has got to see him play healthy recently. Judging him while playing through this injury would be like judging Wilson's agility at the qb spot right now. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

hawker84 · Oct 17, 2016

kidhawk":sh6p79rf said:
hawker84":sh6p79rf said:

I get it he was a pro bowler last year, he had a decent season.. what has he done this year?

Seahawks 2016
Kick/Punt return rank #29

Punt return 12.6 average
Kick return 17.7 average

Last season they finished the season ranked 14th.

Not saying he's bad, not saying he's not effective at times. Just saying he's nothing special in the kick return game thus far.... Maybe he is hurt and that's affecting him. I would find it odd they keep throwing him out on the field if he is indeed injured, especially to return kicks and punts?

Click to expand...

You're not saying he's bad, yet in your earlier post, you flat out said he's not very good. There's barely a negligible difference between the two phrases.

How you can take stats from when he's playing injured and use them as a basis for his overall talent eludes any and all forms of logic.

If you wanted to say that he's not playing up to par right now, and that his injury may be part of it, people would be on board with it, but when a guy is in the pro bowl one year (and he earned that pro bowl spot), then the next year he gets hurt and his production drops, logic would dictate needing to see him healthy before declaring any lack of talent, and nobody has got to see him play healthy recently. Judging him while playing through this injury would be like judging Wilson's agility at the qb spot right now. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

If that's how it sounded my apologies, I did not mean to suggest he's bad, he's good, he's got some big play potential. But I don't think he's a great return guy, like Leon, or Percy was. Is he the best we have on the team, probably, although I think Baldwin would be just as effective. But again my question is, if he's injured, why risk putting him back there? There's plenty of guys to throw back there that would be just as productive as he's been until he's fully recovered, yes?

hawker84 · Oct 17, 2016

johnnyfever":1q2h7udp said:
As has been said, he is hurt this year. He hasn't been that great in receiving either. We know what he can do, just let him heal up for the postseason. He is fine to be on the field and make a few catches in the games, but we can't expect the guy from last year yet, and should be limiting his exposure.

Are you guys suggesting cutting him to get someone else? Not sure I understand what this thread is suggesting. If so, with our cap issues, who in the hell do you think we can afford that would do better?

Not at all, and for the record Lockett is one of my favorite Seahawk players. I think his talents is a crucial part of this offense. He would be among the last players I'd want to see traded.

kidhawk · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":1sqbem9i said:
kidhawk":1sqbem9i said:

hawker84":1sqbem9i said:

I get it he was a pro bowler last year, he had a decent season.. what has he done this year?

Seahawks 2016
Kick/Punt return rank #29

Punt return 12.6 average
Kick return 17.7 average

Last season they finished the season ranked 14th.

Not saying he's bad, not saying he's not effective at times. Just saying he's nothing special in the kick return game thus far.... Maybe he is hurt and that's affecting him. I would find it odd they keep throwing him out on the field if he is indeed injured, especially to return kicks and punts?

Click to expand...

You're not saying he's bad, yet in your earlier post, you flat out said he's not very good. There's barely a negligible difference between the two phrases.

How you can take stats from when he's playing injured and use them as a basis for his overall talent eludes any and all forms of logic.

If you wanted to say that he's not playing up to par right now, and that his injury may be part of it, people would be on board with it, but when a guy is in the pro bowl one year (and he earned that pro bowl spot), then the next year he gets hurt and his production drops, logic would dictate needing to see him healthy before declaring any lack of talent, and nobody has got to see him play healthy recently. Judging him while playing through this injury would be like judging Wilson's agility at the qb spot right now. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

Click to expand...

If that's how it sounded my apologies, I did not mean to suggest he's bad. I was saying he is not a great return guy, like Leon, or Percy was. Is he the best we have on the team, probably, although I think Baldwin would be just as effective. But again my question is, if he's injured, why risk putting him back there? There's plenty of guys to throw back there that would be just as productive as he's been until he's fully recovered, yes?

Too many times people only focus on yards or speed, but the position of returner is a unique position and even some of the more skilled players in the league have issues with cleanly catching the kicks and seeing the field. It's a completely different aspect to the game than playing either offense or defense.

Before we drafted TL, we did try other guys back there and it really wasn't a pretty picture.

Right now, all we have is conjecture, because nobody has asked coach why he's back there while injured, but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that he's more comfortable with TL ability to catch the ball and keep possession and is more concerned with turnovers than a few extra yards here and there. Obviously though, only the team knows the ins and outs of decisions like these, and we may never get that answer.

johnnyfever · Oct 17, 2016

hawker84":308iplf8 said:
johnnyfever":308iplf8 said:

As has been said, he is hurt this year. He hasn't been that great in receiving either. We know what he can do, just let him heal up for the postseason. He is fine to be on the field and make a few catches in the games, but we can't expect the guy from last year yet, and should be limiting his exposure.

Are you guys suggesting cutting him to get someone else? Not sure I understand what this thread is suggesting. If so, with our cap issues, who in the hell do you think we can afford that would do better?

Click to expand...

Not at all, and for the record Lockett is one of my favorite Seahawk players. I think his talents is a crucial part of this offense. He would be among the last players I'd want to see traded.

I agree with your last post that it might not be a bad idea to have spiller take some. I would like to see us limit his exposure to further injury so we have him strong for the the latter part of our schedule and the postseason. He is a clutch guy and will be needed to make the run this year.

I don't want to see baldwin returning kicks or punts again. He is way too valuable and needed as a reciever.

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