Article: Each team's most overrated and underrated player

Laloosh · Sep 7, 2016

Posting here as it pertains to the team. Have to scroll down a bit.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/09/07/nfc-sc ... ed-players

Think you know how good these key NFC players are? Our anonymous scout offers a reality check.

Underrated: Clark
Overrated: Wilson

Note: To Clarify, these are not King's evaluations. They are from a league scout (anonymous scout).

johnnyfever · Sep 7, 2016

Overrated (recently): C-mike
Underrated: Clark, maybe Prosise.

Need to see more Prosise, but his skillset could be really good for what we do.

DJrmb · Sep 7, 2016

LOL, Russell Wilson is an overrated "System" QB??? Talk about click-bate... They must need to get their numbers up to sell some more advertisement space.

hawksfansinceday1 · Sep 7, 2016

DJrmb":2xh9jy62 said:
LOL, Russell Wilson is an overrated "System" QB??? Talk about click-bate... .

As a result, yet again I will not click on internet garbage articles.

vin.couve12 · Sep 7, 2016

Peter King and SI in general can never be taken seriously by me.

I'm not the biggest fan of RW, but I give a pretty fair assessment of his actual play. He has his strengths and weaknesses, but he is an elite QB in this league. He's not Brady, but no one else is either. I also couldn't say that Rodgers is flat out better than RW. People blame Rodger's OL, but RW doesn't get that same excuse for some reason.

As for why Peter King can't be taken seriously, and this is a sore subject for some, but King shows a propensity for putting white players on his all pro lists that have no business being there and has shown other tendencies in how he rates black QBs. I'm not necessarily talking recently either. My thinking about the subject specifically as it relates to Peter King goes back decades (nothing to do with recent evens in society or Kaep/Lane, etc). I simply don't have any respect for the guy in general football terms either, so there's that as well.

MontanaHawk05 · Sep 7, 2016

Wilson's strengths are improvisational, and his weaknesses are in what most people still insist on calling the "traditional" fields of quarterbacking, namely pocket presence and defense-reading. It doesn't mean he's not an elite QB, he's just good in his own particular way. But if your only definition of good is "playing like Tom Brady", then yeah, Wilson is overrated.

King has an interesting (at first) point that Wilson might have sucked elsewhere without Pete to actualize him. Had he been forced by another OC to be something he's not, he would have been bad. But there's a fine line between being good by scheme and being good because you're allowed to be yourself, and King's not acknowledging that. Of course, the scheme argument is pretty much negated given that Wilson has played behind a mediocre to poor offensive line for his entire NFL career and still succeeded. I don't know how King gets around that.

That said, Wilson does struggle early in games and actually has played rather poorly in the postseason. Those are legit criticisms.

Laloosh · Sep 7, 2016

To Clarify, these are not King's evaluations. They are from a league scout (anonymous scout).

ImTheScientist · Sep 7, 2016

Overrated: Kam Chancelor
Underrated: Cliff Avril

Mick063 · Sep 7, 2016

Over rated : Kelsie McCray
Under rated: Jermaine Kearse

Ozzy · Sep 7, 2016

Overrated Kearse
Underrated Wilson

Smelly McUgly · Sep 7, 2016

Once I realized that this scout gave the blase "Russell Wilson" answer rather than noting that Kam Chancellor has still has a rep stemming from his play in 2013 that doesn't match up with his play now, I figured that he was probably a scout for a team that doesn't draft for crap anyway.

kearly · Sep 7, 2016

The scout is spot on regarding Clark. With Wilson, he just comes across as an old-school scout who is still burt-hurt that Wilson made his UDFA grade on him look stupid. There are valid criticisms of Wilson, but the critique whiffs on all of them in favor of nonsense like field position and system. Tom Brady has never won a SB without having a top shelf defense behind him. Does that mean he isn't elite either? Ridiculous reasoning. I honestly love it when a player proves me wrong, but it seems most NFL scouts, especially from the old-school ranks, cannot say the same.

It's hard to name an over-rated starter for Seattle. Does Luke Willson count? And even then, I feel like Willson isn't especially beloved. Kam Chancellor has been over-rated as of late, but he was massively under-rated for years before that.

I guess I'd have to say Bobby Wagner is the closet thing to an over-rated starter on our team. I don't think he's been the 2nd best MLB in football for some time now, but people still talk about him like he's 1b to Kuechly's 1a. Wagner is of vital importance to our D and I would argue that his absence cost Seattle a win in the regular season against Carolina. However, I think he is more of a good player with speed than some of the all-pro imagery some have fostered of him. Still a great player and if a guy like that is your most over-rated starter, then odds are you have the best team in the NFL.

That said, Wagner is probably a better player than Kam is right now. Not sure if Kam has been 100% since 2014. He just doesn't quite look like himself.

FlyingGreg · Sep 7, 2016

kearly":2al7b5fm said:
The scout is spot on regarding Clark. With Wilson, he just comes across as an old-school scout who is still burt-hurt that Wilson made his UDFA grade on him look stupid. There are valid criticisms of Wilson, but the critique whiffs on all of them in favor of nonsense like field position and system. Tom Brady has never won a SB without having a top shelf defense behind him. Does that mean he isn't elite either? Ridiculous reasoning. I honestly love it when a player proves me wrong, but it seems most NFL scouts, especially from the old-school ranks, cannot say the same.

It's hard to name an over-rated starter for Seattle. Does Luke Willson count? And even then, I feel like Willson isn't especially beloved. Kam Chancellor has been over-rated as of late, but he was massively under-rated for years before that.

I guess I'd have to say Bobby Wagner is the closet thing to an over-rated starter on our team. I don't think he's been the 2nd best MLB in football for some time now, but people still talk about him like he's 1b to Kuechly's 1a. Wagner is of vital importance to our D and I would argue that his absence cost Seattle a win in the regular season against Carolina. However, I think he is more of a good player with speed than some of the all-pro imagery some have fostered of him. Still a great player and if a guy like that is your most over-rated starter, then odds are you have the best team in the NFL.

That said, Wagner is probably a better player than Kam is right now. Not sure if Kam has been 100% since 2014. He just doesn't quite look like himself.

Agreed 100%. Wagner really took a step back last season, IMO. He isn't in the same class as Kuechly, but then again who is?

Kam is my favorite current Hawk. But putting my bias aside, he wasn't the same last season either.

We need the defense to get back to domination. I don't want to hear about scoring records. The only thing that matters is shutting down opponents when it counts. They did it in 2013 and mostly 2014. We saw the results.

They didn't do it in 2015. Look at all those 4th quarter collapses. That cost us the West and at least a home field game.

dogorama · Sep 7, 2016

ImTheScientist":1pm1urlz said:
Overrated: Kam Chancelor
Underrated: Cliff Avril

Thread winner in my opinion.

The author got it half right at least but in his defense Russell is an interesting player, there are some weeks where he appears exactly as the article states. It was only last year where RW had to post some actual NFL records before the rest of the country noticed that he might be something more than a "system" QB. Of course we know different because we see him every week. I always thought that he could do so much more but he has had some bad games too. The coaching staff, in their wisdom, have brought him along step-by-step. Get ready to be terrorized NFL!

HawkGA · Sep 7, 2016

MontanaHawk05":1bnfj2eh said:
King has an interesting (at first) point that Wilson might have sucked elsewhere without Pete to actualize him. Had he been forced by another OC to be something he's not, he would have been bad.

I suspect this could be said of just about anybody though, really. Did Bill Walsh make Montana? Did Montana make Walsh? How does Rice fit into that? Individually each of those pieces might have been good, but likely would not reached the heights they did.

HawkGA · Sep 7, 2016

I'll say this as objectively as possible, but I could see somebody making the argument that Wilson is overrated in the eyes of Seahawks fans but to say he is overrated in general, I think it tough to argue. He's often considered barely a top 10 QB in a lot of lists. That's not overrated. That's underrated.

Russ Willstrong · Sep 7, 2016

How is a short black qb who has broken many passing records overrated when experts insist he was nothing but a career backup?

The defense doesnt account for his passing efficiency and rushing yards. Caroll's system gives him fewer opportunities for passing stats and rhythm while making him pass mostly on crucial down and distances. Since Wilson was a rookie we have routinely run on first and second leaving certain passing downs for Wilson. Critics insist that he was eased along by the Run game bit to the contrary these passing opportunities are questionably the toughest to gain yards.
Crucial passing downs (3rd and long, 2nd and forever) by the way accounts for the higher percentage of qb pressure as well for the fact that the defenses send more guys and you also need to buy time for receivers to get further downfield.
Wilson who many view as NOT a pure pocket passer has ranked at the top for yards per attempt, near tops on passing efficiency in the pocket, near top in 3rd down efficiency given the fewer opportunities and also producing huge stats as a scrambler says he is very underrated.

To say thay Wilson is a system quarterback is ignorance. Seahawks didnt create this efficient and improvisational style of quarterbacking which is Wilson's calling card going back to his youth. When Favre and Young were doing similar things they weren't system quarterbacks.

mrt144 · Sep 7, 2016

HawkGA":1xgvm6yj said:
MontanaHawk05":1xgvm6yj said:

King has an interesting (at first) point that Wilson might have sucked elsewhere without Pete to actualize him. Had he been forced by another OC to be something he's not, he would have been bad.

Click to expand...

I suspect this could be said of just about anybody though, really. Did Bill Walsh make Montana? Did Montana make Walsh? How does Rice fit into that? Individually each of those pieces might have been good, but likely would not reached the heights they did.

And until we can tap the multi-verse its meaningless speculation. Back up that thought with cogent stats or GTFO sports writers.

Seahwkgal · Sep 7, 2016

hawksfansinceday1":6xg2pqez said:
DJrmb":6xg2pqez said:

LOL, Russell Wilson is an overrated "System" QB??? Talk about click-bate... .

Click to expand...

As a result, yet again I will not click on internet garbage articles.

Co-sign. Also, SI has so much advertising and java script my computer goes haywire so I avoid that website like the plague.

hawkfan68 · Sep 7, 2016

johnnyfever":3qn22pgl said:
Overrated (recently): C-mike
Underrated: Clark, maybe Prosise.

Need to see more Prosise, but his skillset could be really good for what we do.

I disagree. Prosise has done diddly squat in the NFL to even begin to think about being underrated or overrated. He's just "unrated" at this point.

underrated: Earl Thomas
overrated: Kam Chancellor

Article: Each team's most overrated and underrated player

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