After thinking about it, I'm rooting for Irvin to stay

When I look at the draft, I don't really see an obvious replacement for Irvin. Leonard Floyd and Darron Lee will probably be gone before #26, and the only other LB who could clearly fill Irvin's role might be Travis Feeney, a guy with medical concerns. There are some other draftable LBs with decent speed on day 3 but you probably wouldn't feel great about plugging them in as day one starters.

When I look at free agent linebackers, there aren't really any other free agent alternatives that can do all the stuff Irvin could do for us.

When I look at the in-house talent... KPL plays more like a free safety, Morgan is decent but a free agent, and Pinkins is raw. I actually like Pinkins a lot as a prospective LB, but he just seems like the kind of player that wouldn't get the opportunity and be a forgotten man. Coyle is kind of an emergency LB to me and is a pure MLB, IMO.

In other words, the Seahawks are not yet in a great position to lose Irvin.

Seattle will gain a nice 2017 compensatory pick, probably a 3rd rounder, if Irvin leaves. So I won't be mad if he does. That said, I look at the needs on the Seahawks and the talent in FA and the Draft, and the more I study it the more Bruce Irvin looks he should be a priority signing.

If Irvin goes, I think it will create a hole on the roster the same way Maxwell's departure did last year. Its not the end of the world, but I'm at the point where I think Irvin could justify up to $10m APY to Seattle, given the dropoff level to his replacement.

I think they've got one great movable piece in Wright who gives them flexibility. They don't have to look at replacing Irvin with an Irvin clone. They can look at WSLB prospects AND SSLB prospects.

I think in the end you might see KPL and Pinkins slug it out.

McGruff":1kd1qnfn said:

I think in the end you might see KPL and Pinkins slug it out.

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I think that's what will happen. And there will probably be a sizable dropoff.

Irvin's complete game skill set is rare, a lesser Von Miller if you will. Stands up strong against the run at the los, solid edge rusher, can cover downfield, 4.4 speed, tough guy.

So, you aren't going to replace the player with one guy if you lose him. It will take a plateau of 2/3 guys to try to do the job. KJ could move over and do 2/3rds of the job (run d and coverage), then get a run and chase rb on the other side and add another rotational edge rusher.

You look at the free agent lbers out there and you'd have to roll Barron, Perry and Upshaw into one player to try to come close to Bruce. But football people see that, and I think his deal is going to be very very impressive.

I could see Carroll brining in Barron, but I wonder where he would play him?

I like Irvin as much as the next guy but the hype surrounding his free agency has baffled me.

He's grown. A lot. But he was probably our 11th most important defensive starter in 2013 and 2014. This dude was outplayed by Malcom Smith and O'Brien Schoefield in our championship run. If you're going to sign him to a crazy deal based on upside, you cannot also keep KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner. What are we doing sinking so many resources into the most fungible position group on the team?

We had a #1 defense with the ghost of Leroy Hill as a starting LB, for goodness sakes.

DavidSeven":hyw4o0x2 said:

I like Irvin as much as the next guy but the hype surrounding his free agency has baffled me.

He's grown. A lot. But he was probably our 11th most important defensive starter in 2013 and 2014. This dude was outplayed by Malcom Smith and O'Brien Schoefield in our championship run. If you're going to sign him to a crazy deal based on upside, you cannot also keep KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner. What are we doing sinking so many resources into the most fungible position group on the team?

We had a #1 defense with the ghost of Leroy Hill as a starting LB, for goodness sakes.

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Irvin really stepped up his game after 48. So much so that Smith barely saw the field.

He is going to be difficult to replace but not impossible. I'd love to see him stay but his home team discount is something like taking $47 million instead of $50 million on a 4-5 year deal. He'd likely be worth it but with contract issues involving Kam, Bennett and trying to resign our DTs the Hawks would be wise to move on.

I've said before the team might move KJ back to SAM. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I'm not saying he can do it all like Bruce but I'm interested by Zach Brown as a low cost option ( i say low cost but we'll see what a 2nd/3rd tier player will command in the wild free agency to come...) to fill some of the bruce roles and compete for playing time with KPL. I would be quite happy to see him here on a 1 or 2 year "prove it" deal.

Let Irvin go. Hes not worth the 10M he's set to be paid.

On his own team is he better than the 8th best player on D?? Can you rightly pay him more than Bennett or Avril or Chancellor?

As a linebacker, he was finally figuring it out his 4th year, but the position itself doesn't ask much of the player, at least no where close to what Wagner and Wright was doing. As a defensive end, was he making that much of an impact? He had 5.5 sacks during the season as a player rushing every 3rd down of every series. Is that really that good?

Irvin is a great player and i understand the hole he would leave behind but he's going to get 10m a year. He's simply not worth that in our 4-3 scheme. 10 million would mean making more than guys like Earl and Bennett. Also 4 million more than both Wright and Wagner.

I'd like to keep him but we can't afford him.

I think we all wish Irvin could stay, but it's just not realistic. There is too little cap space and too many holes at more important positions than a 2nd OLB (i.e. offensive line).

The team made the right decision to extend K.J. Wright instead of Irvin. Wright had a Pro Bowl-caliber season, is more versatile than Irvin, and is a tackling machine. Irvin is an excellent player, but his productivity is a notch below Wright's.

Now, Wright will probably move back to SLB and Kevin Pierre-Louis will be one of the favorites to enter the starting lineup at WLB. Pierre-Louis is a premiere athlete who can play sideline to sideline. The most important thing for him now is to stay healthy so that he can continue to progress in this system. If he's not healthy, then you are looking at Nick Moody, Eric Pinkins, etc.

Cassius Marsh has also been talked up as an Irvin replacement, but I think that should be limited to his work at the LEO position. I don't think Marsh has the instincts, quickness, coverage skills, or flexibility to succeed in space at SLB. Look for Frank Clark to get more reps at LEO as he improves as a pass rusher. I'm also excited to see Ryan Robinson gets some reps in the LEO role. Robinson looked like promising player before he got hurt last year.

They also signed Josh Shirley, who has a similar kind of skill set. Explosive off the ball with an impressive 1.58 10-yard split. He's kind of a 'poor man's Bruce Irvin' who can provide some competition in training camp with either rushing the passer or setting the edge.

Reality: Irvin does not fit the Seahawks financially at this time. There is NO WAY they can pay him $10+ million APY...he will probably get between $10 and $11 million from another team. And it's not like this is a surprise to the FO. They knew this day would come, and although they will miss him as much as we fans do, they are probably pleased that they will get a 3rd round pick for him in 2017. I'm sure they even planned for this day. The beginning of this process was the day they chose not to offer him his 5th year option. They made other choices, and hopefully those choices will ultimately be the correct choices.

Sorry to say this, but there is literally ZERO chance that Irvin will stay. I will miss having him on the team, and I wish him good luck wherever he lands. I have a feeling that, unlike the Eagles and Maxwell, the team that gets Irvin will end up feeling that he was worth the money they will be paying him.

$10 million per year?? LOL. We don't need another Irvin to replace him. With Wagner and KJ under contract they've made their choices on core LB's and Bruce aint one.

As mentioned by other posters Irvin isn't likely to be replaced by 1 player. Irvin played 2 roles.

Role 1: Sam LB in the Base D - Literally the least important player in Pete Carroll's Defense. Irvin was put there after he failed as a Leo. This position is a part time position and gets subbed out when they go Nickel.

Whether it's Mike Morgan, or KJ flopping positions on Base downs, or whatever happens they will be fine.

Role 2: Nickel Edge Rusher - Much more important, and very concerning. Irvin only had 5 1/2 sacks though playing the position last year, and I can't give a dude $10M APY long term contract for 6 sacks.

Option A: Bruce Irvin for $10M APY. (More than Bennett & Avril.)

Option B: Mike Mo / KPL, and a veteran pass rusher for $5M APY. + a 3rd/4th rd compensatory pick.

Option C: Mike Mo / KPL, and a day 1 pick on an edge rusher. for $2M APY. + a 3rd/4th rd compensatory pick.

I'll take option B, or C. Every time.

A forgotten name when we discuss the SOLB position is Mike Morgan who is also a UFA and started in place of Irvin in the Carolina game. He was above KPL on the DC and more reliable though considerably less flashy. If Morgan doesn't find himself in Oakland, Atlanta, or Jax, he may wind up being the starter if Irvin prices himself out of here.

I'm sure greed enters the picture at some point with certain guys, and they won't even mind playing on losing team to get twice the contract, but economically speaking, anything more than 30 million in a bank account, is just showing off.

If you can't live the rest of your life on 40 million and relative good health, you're an idiot.

I'd rather play on a team that gets me trophies, national night games, rings, 40 million, and one-on one coverage, than play on a team that pays me 80 million, with a half-full stadium, no national night games, no rings, and I get triple covered in every game.

Greedy idiotic bastards.

HoustonHawk82":3axa7yg1 said:

I'm sure greed enters the picture at some point with certain guys, and they won't even mind playing on losing team to get twice the contract, but economically speaking, anything more than 30 million in a bank account, is just showing off.

If you can't live the rest of your life on 40 million and relative good health, you're an idiot.

I'd rather play on a team that gets me trophies, national night games, rings, 40 million, and one-on one coverage, than play on a team that pays me 80 million, with a half-full stadium, no national night games, no rings, and I get triple covered in every game.

Greedy idiotic bastards.

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:roll:

It's so easy to throw out a statement like that and never have to back it up. Sure it's easy and nice to say you'd take 50% less and leave 40 million dollars out there on the table...I guess asking your boss for a raise makes you a "greedy idiotic bastard" no one should ever make the most possible!

It took the team two years to figure out how best to use him. Once they did, he was a nice asset.

Having said that, I consider drafting him as one of JS's biggest mistakes, simply because we passed on an All-Pro guard in David DeCastro...TWICE.

I think there's no way we can afford to keep him, simply because of the PED suspension alone. He gets popped again, and that's one year. It's too risky, and we have bigger needs to address on the interior line, on both sides.

THE TABS":3q0xkzc7 said:

It took the team two years to figure out how best to use him. Once they did, he was a nice asset.

Having said that, I consider drafting him as one of JS's biggest mistakes, simply because we passed on an All-Pro guard in David DeCastro...TWICE.

I think there's no way we can afford to keep him, simply because of the PED suspension alone. He gets popped again, and that's one year. It's too risky, and we have bigger needs to address on the interior line, on both sides.

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That is easy to say once the draft is over. If JS passed twice so did every other team. Not really a mistake. There are no crystal balls in the draft. Percy Harvin was a bigger "mistake" but that was more of a gamble.

Good point about Irvin PED issue. Everything is a tradeoff. A different way to look at it is if he was on another team and available in Free Agency would we want him for $10 mill. He is a solid player but not elite IMHO. He is a freak athlete but that does not always translate into great skills.

tooshort":1c30t8be said:

I'm not saying he can do it all like Bruce but I'm interested by Zach Brown as a low cost option ( i say low cost but we'll see what a 2nd/3rd tier player will command in the wild free agency to come...) to fill some of the bruce roles and compete for playing time with KPL. I would be quite happy to see him here on a 1 or 2 year "prove it" deal.

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Brown is a less physical version of KPL. Brown is outright bad at the POA.