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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:19 pm
  • rideaducati wrote:
    massari wrote:I know I'm a little late to the party but can someone tell me why the Hawks chose to punt two times when they were in field goal range?

    I'm thinking it has to do with the weather but am not sure exactly.


    I believe they were going against the wind and prior to the game they determined that that area was four down territory. Plus their punter had a broken nose.

    Oh, so the Vikings got a little bit lucky too, eh?

    Makes sense, thanks.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:25 pm
  • We didn't get lucky. It wasn't something we did. Nope.

    The Viking's are Unlucky. They missed the field goal so it's on them.

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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:36 pm
  • blue 22 wrote:Ask the Super Bowl champs patriots if they were lucky... They were...but they still won.


    :thirishdrinkers: this!
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:37 pm
  • It doesn't matter lucky or not, the team is moving on and Minnesota is staying home. This team learned all about "lucky wins" in Arizona last year. The only goal is to move on and keep winning until the final game of the NFL season. Period.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:00 am
  • 253hawk wrote:
    hawkfan1975 wrote:And a laces in scenario where the kicker shanks it...at that distance? Luck is involved. Sorry.
    On to Carolina


    No, that's just failed execution. And it was hardly a shank; he was on the left hash and just shaved it left. If he's in the middle of the field, it's a FG.

    'Luck' winning or losing a game for a team is as plausible as 'God' winning or losing a game for a team. I think 'fortunate' is the word people are looking for.


    Failed execution = the game. Vikes failed to put the game away, to score more points, to stop the hawks from a comeback in the 4th.

    The topic of luck applies to the minutes of Hawk hope as they waited to see how the FG would go. A FG where blame not only falls on the kicker but the holder as well (maybe even more as a kick on the laces DOES increase risk of pull or push at that DISTANCE. And yes, distance is also affected "on the laces" but at that distance it's a combo of laces, timing, and foot plant. A bad kick).
    * I don't want to hear about wind either because that wasn't even a nominal factor that day.

    A series of factors happening at the precise moment to aid a missed FG to secure the lead for the Hawks with seconds left.
    AKA: "Some luck".

    The game however, luck had nothing to do with.

    We're talking about the same thing believe it or not (but we aren't gonna do it in circles).

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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:40 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:Or just own up to the fact it was 100% lucky?

    Amazingly enough its actually okay to win a game with a little bit of luck

    100% luck?...not even close. Limiting them to 9 pts and scoring 10 is called giving yourself a chance to win. Yes, we were lucky at the end, but 100 percent is pure hyperbole.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:48 am
  • I have a friend who has hit three "lucky" hole-in-ones. I've hit zero. zilch. nada. But you know what? I'm just as lucky as he is, but when I'm lucky, I hit the green. My point is, EVERY team that played last weekend was lucky at times. Vikings had plenty of luck on Sunday -- they just didn't have themselves in a position where that luck mattered. The only teams that didn't get lucky last weekend were the teams watching the playoffs from their couch.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:41 pm
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:58 am
  • If the holder holds the ball with the laces towards the kicker and that causes the kick to go wide, that's not us being lucky, that's a botched FG attempt.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:25 am
  • Overseasfan wrote:If the holder holds the ball with the laces towards the kicker and that causes the kick to go wide, that's not us being lucky, that's a botched FG attempt.



    Word from the Vikings is the holder was instructed not to spin the ball laces in because of the cold weather...
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:36 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Overseasfan wrote:If the holder holds the ball with the laces towards the kicker and that causes the kick to go wide, that's not us being lucky, that's a botched FG attempt.



    Word from the Vikings is the holder was instructed not to spin the ball laces in because of the cold weather...


    The other thing is that laces don't even matter for a chip shot like that.

    I think a lot of people misunderstand why kickers prefer the laces to be 180 degrees from the kick:

    If the laces are "in" it's bad for distance because you can't get a clean kick on the ball, and if the laces are 90 degrees in either direction it can make the ball slightly drift that direction on really long kicks.

    Neither of these things matter AT ALL for a chip shot.

    If we're going to blame the holder, the blame would be over the ball being angled rather than perpendicular to the ground.

    Still though, regardless, we're talking about something going wrong that only goes right 99 out of 100 times.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:37 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Overseasfan wrote:If the holder holds the ball with the laces towards the kicker and that causes the kick to go wide, that's not us being lucky, that's a botched FG attempt.



    Word from the Vikings is the holder was instructed not to spin the ball laces in because of the cold weather...


    The other thing is that laces don't even matter for a chip shot like that.

    I think a lot of people misunderstand why kickers prefer the laces to be 180 degrees from the kick:

    If the laces are "in" it's bad for distance because you can't get a clean kick on the ball, and if the laces are 90 degrees in either direction it can make the ball slightly drift that direction on really long kicks.

    Neither of these things matter AT ALL for a chip shot.

    If we're going to blame the holder, the blame would be over the ball being angled rather than perpendicular to the ground.

    Still though, regardless, we're talking about something going wrong that only goes right 99 out of 100 times.


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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:51 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Overseasfan wrote:If the holder holds the ball with the laces towards the kicker and that causes the kick to go wide, that's not us being lucky, that's a botched FG attempt.



    Word from the Vikings is the holder was instructed not to spin the ball laces in because of the cold weather...


    The other thing is that laces don't even matter for a chip shot like that.

    I think a lot of people misunderstand why kickers prefer the laces to be 180 degrees from the kick:

    If the laces are "in" it's bad for distance because you can't get a clean kick on the ball, and if the laces are 90 degrees in either direction it can make the ball slightly drift that direction on really long kicks.

    Neither of these things matter AT ALL for a chip shot.

    If we're going to blame the holder, the blame would be over the ball being angled rather than perpendicular to the ground.

    Still though, regardless, we're talking about something going wrong that only goes right 99 out of 100 times.


    on the season he was basically 51 of 57 from 35 yards in...high percentage, but not perfect.

    Guy just pulled it. Weather, Sherman, pressure... whatever.

    It happens.

    One thing with Walsh though is he did have a rather concerning year, despite leading the league in field goals made. He was almost cut during the preseason after missing 5 of 10 field goals, including 3 in a game. He was prone to a miss. Honestly, Haush hasn't had the strongest year either and while it would have been a stomach punch if he had missed that kick, it would not have surprised me in the least.

    Zimm took a rather direct (and I believe correct) tone in his end of season presser yesterday, saying he expects Walsh to make that kick, but also that he expected alot of his players to make plays over the season and in the last game that they did not. Fired his o-line coach and made it clear noone's job is safe.

    Took the training wheels of his young football team going into the off season. Good coach.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:58 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Took the training wheels of his young football team going into the off season. Good coach.


    Yep. Absolutely agreed.

    He's kind of the anti-Carroll in a lot of ways, and the two of them together are a great example of how good coaching can come in really different flavors.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:00 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Took the training wheels of his young football team going into the off season. Good coach.


    Yep. Absolutely agreed.

    He's kind of the anti-Carroll in a lot of ways, and the two of them together are a great example of how good coaching can come in really different flavors.


    Very similar expectations, very different approaches.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:14 am
  • If the kick hit a wayward bird on its way to splitting the uprights then we could say it was luck. But they failed to execute on a routine football play. That's not luck, that's bad football.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:32 am
  • Vikings had to execute a play in a game in which they were trailing.

    They did not do that.

    They weren't struck by lightning, trampled by a crowd of powerball winners, or hit in the ass with a horse shoe. They failed to execute a play they needed to take the lead and win the game.

    Something caused the kick to be inaccurate and miss, and it wasn't divine intervention, leprechauns, or a mystical twist of fate. It wasn't random chance, it was humans failing to execute in a difficult environment.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:52 am
  • Hawknballs wrote:Something caused the kick to be inaccurate and miss, and it wasn't divine intervention, leprechauns, or a mystical twist of fate. It wasn't random chance, it was humans failing to execute in a difficult environment.



    The part of this I disagree with is it completely divorces probability and random variation from human action, and that's just simply not how the world works. The very existence of all percentage based sports statistics is predicated on these things, and to just brush them away means to brush away a whole swath of things: calculating insurance rates, good or bad stock market bets, if its more or less safe to drive on icy roads, etc., etc. etc.

    I generally don't like the use of the word "luck" as I think it suggests a form of intervention on random chance that does not actually exist, but accepting how people generally talk, "unlucky" doesn't mean ANYTHING if it's not shorthand for "a very low probability negative outcome at a much-more-than-average high stakes time."
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:01 am
  • panthers4life wrote:I think how close Sherman came to blocking the previous attempt played a factor in that miss, he was trying to influence that kick to the left for a little insurance, it didn't work out.



    My thoughts exactly.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:13 am
  • If Minnesota would have missed a 27 yard FG in the 1st quarter, and then just simply didn't have a chance to kick one at the end of the game and lost 10-9, nobody would be saying Seattle got lucky and only won because of a missed FG in the 1st quarter....even though it's exactly the same thing.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:32 am
  • fenderbender123 wrote:If Minnesota would have missed a 27 yard FG in the 1st quarter, and then just simply didn't have a chance to kick one at the end of the game and lost 10-9, nobody would be saying Seattle got lucky and only won because of a missed FG in the 1st quarter....even though it's exactly the same thing.



    Nobody would have said it because it's absolutely under no circumstances the same thing.

    The same play in the first quarter would swing a team's win probability by 5-10% or so, whereas that play with 20 second left in the 4th quarter swung the Vikings win probability by about 99% or so.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:36 am
  • It wasn't luck at all. The Seahawks caused the kicker to rush the kick by exploiting a weakness they saw on film. On the previous FG Sherman missed blocking it by one inch and was close on an earlier one. The Vikings and the kicker were well aware of that. PC confirmed that "the final kick was kicked much faster than their other kicks. It was considerably faster," when asked if Sherman's almost block had an impact on the last kick of the game. http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/1/12/107 ... ence-notes
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:37 am
  • I don't care what any of you say... The Seahawks were lucky. Just smile and agree with the people that say we were lucky. That ticks them off more than arguing otherwise. Especially in North Carolina...I'm having a blast sporting my gear, smiling, and agreeing that the Seahawks were lucky.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:39 am
  • If the game had been played on Saturday the outcome would have been the same, the Seahawks would have won but by a much larger margin. There was no rhythm to the offense. The cold and communication issues were to blame. If the game had been played in Seattle you are looking at a 30 point victory. The Hawks were unlucky to have played in the 3rd coldest playoff game in NFL history. The Vikings were lucky to have played in that game. They have now lost that edge forever.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:35 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:If Minnesota would have missed a 27 yard FG in the 1st quarter, and then just simply didn't have a chance to kick one at the end of the game and lost 10-9, nobody would be saying Seattle got lucky and only won because of a missed FG in the 1st quarter....even though it's exactly the same thing.



    Nobody would have said it because it's absolutely under no circumstances the same thing.

    The same play in the first quarter would swing a team's win probability by 5-10% or so, whereas that play with 20 second left in the 4th quarter swung the Vikings win probability by about 99% or so.


    I intended my scenario to be thought of as if the rest of the game played out in a manner that would have made that missed FG one of the difference makers in the final score, rather than isolating that point of time and viewing the rest of the game from that point as unpredictable.

    Of course, there's no way to know that the game would have played out that way at that point given how much time there was to play and how it affects everything else from there on out. But once somebody starts using their brain and putting this together, they will soon realize that to say that Seattle was lucky at the end would also have to admit that Minnesota was lucky to be in it at the end in the first place, given the inprobabilty of certain plays such as Jon Ryan trying to fun for a first down instead of punting the football even though he had plenty of room. How often does he do that? Statistically, there's less of a chance of that happening than missing a 27 yard FG.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:05 pm
  • AbsolutNET wrote:Minnesota's offense had 8 quarters to get in the end zone this year against the Hawks and couldn't do it.

    This!You don't win games by not scoring touchdowns.The better team won luck be damned!
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:08 pm
  • Seafan wrote:If the game had been played on Saturday the outcome would have been the same, the Seahawks would have won but by a much larger margin. There was no rhythm to the offense. The cold and communication issues were to blame. If the game had been played in Seattle you are looking at a 30 point victory. The Hawks were unlucky to have played in the 3rd coldest playoff game in NFL history. The Vikings were lucky to have played in that game. They have now lost that edge forever.


    LOL 30 point victory my a$$. Sheer arrogance. It wouldn't kill some of you to admit that the Seahawks were lucky, and the Vikings defense is pretty damn good. Before that game so many of you were on here readily dismissing the fact we lost 4 defensive starters in the last game and many here were boasting about blowout predictions, now you don't want to admit that maybe the Vikings defense at full strength is pretty damn good. There was no rhthymn to the offense because we had Joseph, Barr, and Smith back in the lineup.

    You can talk about a muffed punt, we can talk about how many times does a QB get a snap over his head and turn it into a 35 yard gain, all because we lost 2 CB's on that drive and our #5 CB inexplicably bailed on his coverage of Lockett during that scramble drill. How many times does a kicker miss a FG from 27 yards? 188/190 times it's good.

    Whether you call it luck, or statistically highly improbable .... whatever you want to call it, Seattle didn't do anything other than watch the Vikings curse themselves into another season-ending chokejob when all they needed was a glorified routine extra point to win it. It wasn't anything you did, so it's hilarious reading all these posts patting yourselves on the back like you earned it or it would have magically been a 30 point blowout, the reality is that game was the result Vikings living up to their well documented history of choking away a playoff game when they had it won.


    Losing a lot of respect for Seattle fans reading some of these responses, sad that so many of you have no respect for the Vikings or the fact they punched you in the mouth, bloodied your nose and then choked away a game-winning point blank FG.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:41 pm
  • SFVikeFan wrote:
    Seafan wrote:If the game had been played on Saturday the outcome would have been the same, the Seahawks would have won but by a much larger margin. There was no rhythm to the offense. The cold and communication issues were to blame. If the game had been played in Seattle you are looking at a 30 point victory. The Hawks were unlucky to have played in the 3rd coldest playoff game in NFL history. The Vikings were lucky to have played in that game. They have now lost that edge forever.


    LOL 30 point victory my a$$. Sheer arrogance. It wouldn't kill some of you to admit that the Seahawks were lucky, and the Vikings defense is pretty damn good. Before that game so many of you were on here readily dismissing the fact we lost 4 defensive starters in the last game and many here were boasting about blowout predictions, now you don't want to admit that maybe the Vikings defense at full strength is pretty damn good. There was no rhthymn to the offense because we had Joseph, Barr, and Smith back in the lineup.

    You can talk about a muffed punt, we can talk about how many times does a QB get a snap over his head and turn it into a 35 yard gain, all because we lost 2 CB's on that drive and our #5 CB inexplicably bailed on his coverage of Lockett during that scramble drill. How many times does a kicker miss a FG from 27 yards? 188/190 times it's good.

    Whether you call it luck, or statistically highly improbable .... whatever you want to call it, Seattle didn't do anything other than watch the Vikings curse themselves into another season-ending chokejob when all they needed was a glorified routine extra point to win it. It wasn't anything you did, so it's hilarious reading all these posts patting yourselves on the back like you earned it or it would have magically been a 30 point blowout, the reality is that game was the result Vikings living up to their well documented history of choking away a playoff game when they had it won.


    Losing a lot of respect for Seattle fans reading some of these responses, sad that so many of you have no respect for the Vikings or the fact they punched you in the mouth, bloodied your nose and then choked away a game-winning point blank FG.


    When you're Russell Wilson, you turn broken plays into big gainers almost every game, and often times more than once. You obviously don't watch Seattle play very often.

    What are the odds of making a 27 yard FG to take the lead at or near the very end of the game? I'll bet it's less than 99%. How about in those weather conditions? Probably even less. What are the odds that a team would successfully make 3 FGs in a row, with 2 of them being over 40 yards in those weather conditions? Probably not very high. I don't see anyone saying Minnesota was lucky to make all 3 of those other FGs.

    If people are gonna tell us that our team only won because we got lucky, then you should expect these types of responses in defense of our team.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:46 pm
  • Who fricken cares. A win is a win. That's all that matters
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:16 pm
  • SFVikeFan wrote:
    Seafan wrote:Losing a lot of respect for Seattle fans reading some of these responses, sad that so many of you have no respect for the Vikings or the fact they punched you in the mouth, bloodied your nose and then choked away a game-winning point blank FG.


    The Vikings had their full contingent on offense including their all-world running back. The Seahawks were missing their all-pro running back plus his backup. What we had was a practice-squad running back whose only real purpose was not to fumble the ball. Not only that we didn't have our all-pro tight end or his backup. Add to that the -6 degrees at kickoff and -25 wind chill and you have conditions that are nearly unplayable.

    As for the respect, you didn't come here seeking a fair evaluation of the game but to validate your teams performance after a humiliating defeat a month ago w/a fantasy that you actually won the game. Your "best running back in the history of the NFL," as I have read on your message board, gained 1.9 yds a carry for a whole 45 total yds. I actually admired Teddy Bridgewater for how well he held up after being vilified by Minnesota's fans after the earlier game.

    How all this adds up to "the fact they punched you in the mouth, bloodied your nose and then choked away a game-winning point blank FG" is beyond me.
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Re: If anybody tells you lucky win?
Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:33 pm
  • dogorama wrote:
    SFVikeFan wrote:
    Seafan wrote:Losing a lot of respect for Seattle fans reading some of these responses, sad that so many of you have no respect for the Vikings or the fact they punched you in the mouth, bloodied your nose and then choked away a game-winning point blank FG.


    The Vikings had their full contingent on offense including their all-world running back. The Seahawks were missing their all-pro running back plus his backup. What we had was a practice-squad running back whose only real purpose was not to fumble the ball. Not only that we didn't have our all-pro tight end or his backup. Add to that the -6 degrees at kickoff and -25 wind chill and you have conditions that are nearly unplayable.

    As for the respect, you didn't come here seeking a fair evaluation of the game but to validate your teams performance after a humiliating defeat a month ago w/a fantasy that you actually won the game. Your "best running back in the history of the NFL," as I have read on your message board, gained 1.9 yds a carry for a whole 45 total yds. I actually admired Teddy Bridgewater for how well he held up after being vilified by Minnesota's fans after the earlier game.

    How all this adds up to "the fact they punched you in the mouth, bloodied your nose and then choked away a game-winning point blank FG" is beyond me.


    The only nose that was bloodied was our punter and he bloodied his own nose... Congrats.

    Without the foul weather, this game is another blowout. Russell throws three touchdowns because the two deep underthrown passes are on target. They also add a couple field goals instead of going for it on 4th and 14.
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