Have the Seahawks drawn a single opposing holding penalty?

All Season? I can think of maybe one? It borders on the absurd. The officiating bias is blatant.

Seahawks are the 19th least penalized team in the league this year. There is another part of the equation.

In addition this would mean that all 16 crews are bias towards Seattle and/or conspiring.

The real issue is self bias. Just like we do with ourselves we do with our teams. People tend to look at themselves and overestimate their strengths and underestimate their weaknesses.

With our teams we often feel like we get the short end of the stick in regards to injuries, scheduling, and penalties. When it's really not true or accurate

Chukarhawk":2vckkyxe said:

All Season? I can think of maybe one? It borders on the absurd. The officiating bias is blatant.

Click to expand...

What kind of holding? They've definitely drawn offensive holding penalties. I don't think they've drawn defensive holding penalties.

No one has grabbed a hold like Sherm can.

ringless":2prm9xao said:

In addition this would mean that all 16 crews are bias towards Seattle and/or conspiring.

The real issue is self bias. Just like we do with ourselves we do with our teams. People tend to look at themselves and overestimate their strengths and underestimate their weaknesses.

With our teams we often feel like we get the short end of the stick in regards to injuries, scheduling, and penalties. When it's really not true or accurate

Click to expand...

It was well documented last year that Seattle opponents were penalized far less than other teams. I think it remains true this year. Hawkblogger addressed this recently:

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2015/10/seahawks-get-no-help-from-refs.html

I have no idea if this is statistically significant and, if so, whether there's a reasonable explanation for it. The paranoid interpretation is, of course, that the NFL is out to get the Seahawks. The less paranoid but still ungenerous interpretation is that the refs are instructed to pay more attention to the Hawks (since they have a history of playing aggressively), and that this distracts them from seeing opponent penalties. The more generous interpretation is that this is either just random chance (and will correct itself over time), or that there's something to Seattle's style of play that makes the opponent less likely to commit a penalty (or to be caught committing one).

I have no idea which one of these is the reason, since no one's done a rigorous analysis (as far as I know), and everyone outside the fanbase immediately dismisses it (or misunderstands what the issue is).

Since we won the Super Bowl, Seahawk opponents have drawn fewer penalties than anyone else in the league.

This year is no different:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game




There have been 11 offensive holding calls against our opponents this season:
http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/seattl ... iew=logben

Judging by the ferociousness of our pass rush, and the fact that Bennett/Avril are Nos. 1 and 2 in pressures by 4-3 DEs, I would say there are probably about three times as many offensive holds that go uncalled against our opponents.

We are all left to speculate why our opponents are consistently penalized less when they play against us than when they play against any other team in the league.

hawknation2015":3fum2f34 said:

Since we won the Super Bowl, Seahawk opponents have drawn fewer penalties than anyone else in the league.

This year is no different:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game




There have been 11 offensive holding calls against our opponents this season:
http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/seattl ... iew=logben

Judging by the ferociousness of our pass rush, and the fact that Bennett/Avril are Nos. 1 and 2 in pressures by 4-3 DEs, I would say there are probably three times as many offensive holds that go uncalled against our opponents.

We are all left to speculate why our opponents are consistently penalized less when they play against us than when they play against any other team in the league.

Click to expand...

Being last in the league two years in a row is not random.

Style of play theory may make sense....except for the fact that other than Atlanta, we don't have much common company in the bottom tier from 2014-2015. The teams are different.

So that kind of leaves us with just one explanation, doesn't it?

hawknation2015":2rc0bil6 said:

There have been 11 offensive holding calls against our opponents this season:
http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/seattl ... iew=logben

Judging by the ferociousness of our pass rush, and the fact that Bennett/Avril are Nos. 1 and 2 in pressures by 4-3 DEs, I would say there are probably about three times as many offensive holds that go uncalled against our opponents.

We are all left to speculate why our opponents are consistently penalized less when they play against us than when they play against any other team in the league.

Click to expand...

Beat me to it.

That hawkblogger article is really great. One thing it brings up is all the pre-snap penalties the Hawks draw (false start, etc), and in those cases it is impossible to be bias and the ref must call it. But we still get reamed by the refs overall, going back to the Holmgren Super Bowl. You listen to Fox radio (why the hell is 950 playing this?) there is unmitigated HATE for Seattle. The NFL and refs are mostly East Coast. East Coast people have an extra hate gear and can fixate easily and stupidly. They don't hate LA, because it's a huge slummy shit-hole like one of their cites, but Seattle is a beautiful, smart, cultured city (like what NY puts so much effort and pretense into being but only marginally achieves).

Well Ringless that just about killed your theory. We have a top 10 pass rush but draw the fewest penalties. Hmmm......

When I played football, hooking a defender who had beaten you and grabbing his jersey was considered an offensive hold.

Is this "block" on Avril no longer considered a hold?

As far as I know, the Seahawks have not had a single pass interference, illegal contact, or defensive holding call go in our favor. Through 8 games that seems crazy.

Hawkpower":2i2nj7zh said:

hawknation2015":2i2nj7zh said:

Since we won the Super Bowl, Seahawk opponents have drawn fewer penalties than anyone else in the league.

This year is no different:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game




There have been 11 offensive holding calls against our opponents this season:
http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/seattl ... iew=logben

Judging by the ferociousness of our pass rush, and the fact that Bennett/Avril are Nos. 1 and 2 in pressures by 4-3 DEs, I would say there are probably three times as many offensive holds that go uncalled against our opponents.

We are all left to speculate why our opponents are consistently penalized less when they play against us than when they play against any other team in the league.

Click to expand...

Being last in the league two years in a row is not random.

Style of play theory may make sense....except for the fact that other than Atlanta, we don't have much common company in the bottom tier from 2014-2015. The teams are different.

So that kind of leaves us with just one explanation, doesn't it?

Click to expand...

Yes, yes it does.

hawknation2015":2gmfe1e0 said:

When I played football, hooking a defender who had beaten you and grabbing his jersey was considered an offensive hold.

Is this "block" on Avril no longer considered a hold?

Click to expand...

I have seen a few of those go uncalled this year.

The same "block" happened on this play against Bruce Irvin. Once again, the tackle is beaten for position to the outside, so he resorts to hooking the end, with one hand outside his body and one hand hooked around inside his jersey. Though it's a little harder to tell on this play because of the angle. I remember when this used to be called an automatic hold:

Seattle's broken play offense also leads to a lot of no call holds I feel.

But to me it just says not a lot of penalties are called during Seattle games overall then.

If they are 19th in the league that means they are bottom half in the league in having calls go against them. Which means there are 18 teams that get more penalties. If they were truly bias. Why not call more penalties on Seattle.

I think there is more to it. And a lot of different views

Here it is again with the hook/grab around Avril from the right side:


Seahawks were penalized for 112 yards against Cinci, while they were penalized for just 50 yards.

ringless":1sslq5an said:

Seattle's broken play offense also leads to a lot of no call holds I feel.

But to me it just says not a lot of penalties are called during Seattle games overall then.

If they are 19th in the league that means they are bottom half in the league in having calls go against them. Which means there are 18 teams that get more penalties. If they were truly bias. Why not call more penalties on Seattle.

I think there is more to it. And a lot of different views

Click to expand...

Well, last year Seattle led the league in penalties (or was very near the top). So it wasn't a matter of the games just drawing fewer penalties. And I think this year the drop in penalties is partly related to the O-line cleaning up some of the pre-snap issues they've had in the past.

Lords of Scythia":7k2zgohf said:

That hawkblogger article is really great. One thing it brings up is all the pre-snap penalties the Hawks draw (false start, etc), and in those cases it is impossible to be bias and the ref must call it. But we still get reamed by the refs overall, going back to the Holmgren Super Bowl. You listen to Fox radio (why the hell is 950 playing this?) there is unmitigated HATE for Seattle. The NFL and refs are mostly East Coast. East Coast people have an extra hate gear and can fixate easily and stupidly. They don't hate LA, because it's a huge slummy shit-hole like one of their cites, but Seattle is a beautiful, smart, cultured city (like what NY puts so much effort and pretense into being but only marginally achieves).

Click to expand...

That bolded little statement there got me thinking so I did some digging. I totaled up all the penalties for each game. I did not remove any penalties that were offsetting or declined as I wanted to see how many flags actually hit the ground for each team for the game. I also showed how many of the penalties for each team were pre-snap since as you mentioned (and I agree) it’s easy to see those as the play hasn’t developed so that I could get an actual idea of how many flags are being thrown from the time the ball is snapped to the QB.

Seattle (total # of penalties/# of those that are pre-snap)
Week 1: 9/6 (illegal formation 1, false start 1, delay of game 2, defensive offside’s 2)
Week 2: 13/5 (defensive offside’s 3, 12 men on the field, 1, false start 1)
Week 3: 5/2 (false start 2)
Week 4: 4/2 (false start 2)
Week 5: 10/5 (false start 1, delay of game 1, defensive holding 1, neutral zone infraction 1, offside’s on free kick 1)
Week 6: 8/0
Week 7: 6/3 (illegal shift 1, 12 men on the field 1, neutral zone infraction 1)
Week 8: 5/2 (illegal motion 1, false start 1)
Total 60/25 which leaves 35 penalties involving a live ball

Opponents (total # of penalties/# of those that are pre-snap)
Week 1: St Louis: 6/4 (false start 2, illegal motion 1, defensive offside’s 1)
Week 2: Green Bay: 9/4 (false start 1, defensive offside’s 2, delay of game 1)
Week 3: Chicago: 6/4 (neutral zone infraction 1, false start 1, delay of game 2)
Week 4: Detroit: 5/1 (defensive offside’s 1)
Week 5: Cincinnati: 7/2 (defensive offside’s 1, false start 1)
Week 6: Carolina: 5/5 (delay of game 1, false start 3, illegal substitution 1)
Week 7: San Francisco: 6/1 (delay of game 1)
Week 8: Dallas: 6/3 (illegal motion 1, false start 2)
Total: 50/24 which leaves 26 penalties involving a live ball

List that shows each week live ball penalties per team:
Week 1: Seattle 3, St Louis 2
Week 2: Seattle 8, Green Bay 5
Week 3: Seattle 3, Chicago 2
Week 4: Seattle 2, Detroit 4
Week 5: Seattle 5, Cincinnati 5
Week 6: Seattle 8, Carolina 0
Week 7: Seattle 3, San Francisco 5
Week 8: Seattle 3, Dallas 3
Total: Seattle 35. Opponents 26

The one game that is glaring to me is the week 6 Panthers where all 5 of their penalties were pre-snap and we got nailed on 8 penalties of which 0 were pre-snap. That game is the only real anomaly we have all season that makes zero sense to me. If you were to remove the week 6 stats then for the rest of the 7 games for the season it would be Seattle 28, Opponents 26 which is pretty fair. To me the refs overall minus the Panthers game are throwing flags fairly equally once the ball his snapped.