D's Gone Soft.

We heard it from every other fanbase jealous of our young hungry elite D for three years. "Just you wait, when those players start getting paid, you're going to have problems. The desire will wane, players will get content."

Not us! we said, this D is different. This D is one of the greatest of all time!

Well...................they're right. It's now official. Our D is soft. I do not see the same crazy pack of wild dog energy and hunger out of our core players. There are some exceptions, mainly on the D line. I still see energy from guys like Bennett and Avril.

But the LOB? Nope, soft as hell, especially Sherman. $$$ and babies have made him soft. Earl? Looks confused half the time. Kam? Still hits hard, but got TORCHED yesterday. Bobby? KJ? OK, but not playing anywhere near their 2012/2103 form.

For series and spurts I do see that energy, but it is fewer and farther between than ever before..........and I don't know how to fix it. Is it no Quinn? Is it no Norton? Is it $$$? Is it fame? Family? Too much success? IMO it's a combo of all of the above. All I know is it's BRUTAL to watch.

While I do agree this defense is not what it once was, let's not forget they were amazing the last 2 games (Chi/Det), and then for 3 quarters yesterday on the road against one of the best offenses in the NFL. Once again the offense hung the defense out to dry yesterday with zero production in the 4th quarter and OT.

Unfortunately after going to back to back Super Bowls and most of these guys getting paid, they probably will never be as dominant and frenzied as they were when they were trying to climb the mountain. Hope I'm wrong.

I actually think kj is at his highest level.

Sherman is not shutdown. The league has deciphered exactly when to break from a fade and comeback on him... Too easy. But, he certainly slowed the hurricane that was aj green early.

Kam.... Yesterday was atrocious.

Earl i still think is top five in the league.

Bobby started the year slower than dogshit but has come to form and i think he's top five also.


Keep in mind the defense had this vaunted Bengals team with seven points at half. If the offense can get two first downs in the mid fourth quarter we win.

But they bevelled it.

One first down the entire fourth qtr.

One first down IIRC In OT??

put this defense in New England and it's a surefire super bowl appearance.

Simple question: If Kam doesn't hold out and is in camp with the rest of the LOB, do we have the communication breakdowns/blown assignments like yesterday? Do we lose the Rams game? That's what's frustrating, I honestly think we'd be 4-1 if he hadn't held out....

JonRud":11refkip said:

While I do agree this defense is not what it once was, let's not forget they were amazing the last 2 games (Chi/Det), and then for 3 quarters yesterday on the road against one of the best offenses in the NFL. Once again the offense hung the defense out to dry yesterday with zero production in the 4th quarter and OT..

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Disclaimer: Amazing against two of the worst offenses in the entire league, at home.

This D used to make elite offenses struggle and look pedestrian with it's ferocity and breaking of wills. Now I see confusion and inconsistency, and an overall lack of energy, especially from the LOB.

I agree the energy wasnt there.Usually the energy is higher at home than on the road.I hope its not all about them getting payed or going soft.For 3 qtrs they played pretty well.Well enough to win.

1 - The defense has a weak link. Williams. Losing Maxwell really hurt us, not sure that is "soft" - we just lost so many pieces that we have a huge hole. I told you that once the book on Williams got out, people would exploit it. Well, that is exactly the case. That should improve if we get Lane and Burley and Simon back - all of which are preferable to CJ.

2 - The defense actually might have a better pass rush this year than in previous years. We got consistent pressure against a well regarded line. But when you consider the energy expended to get consistent pressure, down after down, takes its toll.

3 - The offense choked. Someone mentioned the 'prevent offense' and that is exactly what happened. Grinding the clock down with someone like Lynch works because the other team gets tired and Lynch seems to get stronger. But grinding without him and without scoring is a terrible idea. Even a good defense is going to give up a score on every third opponent possession. That means as an offense you MUST score at a minimum every 3rd drive. Since we went essentially a quarter and a half without scoring that is pretty much ballgame.

4 - You very rarely win games in today's NFL scoring 17 points as an offense. Period. 17 points is a failure. It is the equivalent of batting below the Mendoza line. As an offense, they did not do their job.

Bottomline, expecting the defense to perform like the Hawk defense of 2 years ago, that great Raven defense or the Bears of 85 is not a recipe for success. Remember we lose pieces each year? If this team is going to allocate the money it has to the offense (mostly in the QB), then it has to have the offense actually produce. So far that has not been the case.

Sgt. Largent":3mjusxij said:

This D used to make elite offenses struggle and look pedestrian with it's ferocity and breaking of wills. Now I see confusion and inconsistency, and an overall lack of energy, especially from the LOB.

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As I posted in another thread, after the long initial 2nd half drive, the offense did virtually nothing and could not stay on the field for nearly a half of the game. That is a lot to ask for from a D on a short week's rest against a very good offense.

You're only as strong as your weakest link & that's Cary Williams right now. He is too much of a liability. If we can fix that problem, everyone else can focus on doing their job. Simon had the same effect last year. Sherman is going to have to start following WR until we have adequate replacement. Next year draft should just be Olines & CB.

Completely disagree, Largent. They were just on the field for too many plays. Not a defense in the league that can hold up game after game with the offense being incapable of staying on the field for longer than 4 or 5 plays.

TwistedHusky":2ce8ik84 said:

Bottomline, expecting the defense to perform like the Hawk defense of 2 years ago, that great Raven defense or the Bears of 85 is not a recipe for success. Remember we lose pieces each year? If this team is going to allocate the money it has to the offense (mostly in the QB), then it has to have the offense actually produce. So far that has not been the case.

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But we should expect it.

We've committed something like 75% of the cap to the defense, on purpose. The way Pete wants his team is a conservative pounding run oriented offense and nasty top 5 D.

Well.........where's the D? All our core defensive players are supposedly smarter and in their prime. Sorry man, I don't see it. I see a D that is playing FAR below their potential, and for no reason whatsover. Which is why I'm contributing it to desire, will and energy.

Laloosh":3namensc said:

Completely disagree, Largent. They were just on the field for too many plays. Not a defense in the league that can hold up game after game with the offense being incapable of staying on the field for longer than 4 or 5 plays.

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This wasn't the SD game last year in the heat where the time of possession was ridiculously lopsided.

The TOP was 40:00 Bengals to 30:00 Hawks. That's not on the field for too many plays. Still plenty of blame to go around in the 4th quarter giving up big play after big play............and mainly contributed to miscommunication and no one in the LOB rising up to make a play.

And like I said, this isn't a one game aberration. This has happened EVERY game this year except for the Bears, too much money and too much talent on our D to crap the bed 4th quarter after 4th quarter.

Andy Dalton looked like his typical self for most of the game yesterday until crunch time - I thought we were officially back after the fumble recovery. Previous years teams pound Marshawn to close out the game after that. 17 point lead losses are pretty disheartening but I put way more of the loss on the offense than the defense. It was a joke what we accomplished in the last two quarters.

Sherm played well, AJ Green didn't do much after he started to shadow him. I'd say a majority of the big plays came against Cary Williams and Kam. Cary had those two 25+ yard penalties and repeatedly gave up passes. I don't recall a single good play he made. The thing that made me most upset was watching him not even reach out to try and jam at the LOS. They'd just run past him and he'd already be in catch up mode, at the line of scrimmage. That was also Kam's worst game in a very long time.

mistaowen":32yvp7ty said:

Andy Dalton looked like his typical self for most of the game yesterday until crunch time - I thought we were officially back after the fumble recovery. Previous years teams pound Marshawn to close out the game after that. 17 point lead losses are pretty disheartening but I put way more of the loss on the offense than the defense. It was a joke what we accomplished in the last two quarters.

Sherm played well, AJ Green didn't do much after he started to shadow him. I'd say a majority of the big plays came against Cary Williams and Kam. Cary had those two 25+ yard penalties and repeatedly gave up passes. I don't recall a single good play he made. The thing that made me most upset was watching him not even reach out to try and jam at the LOS. They'd just run past him and he'd already be in catch up mode, at the line of scrimmage. That was also Kam's worst game in a very long time.

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I do not think Sherman had a good game. Compared to Williams and Kam? I guess.........but I just don't see the same nasty chip on his shoulder pit bull Sherman.

Glad he got paid and has a new baby, but IMO he's soft now and has lost his edge. We're paying him to be an elite shut down corner, so he shouldn't have more PI calls than interceptions.

One thing that bothered me was Sherman was interviewd in the locker room and had a thats the way it goes sometimes attitude.I would have loved for him to be pissed and have an attitude because its not the first time.

As far as being on the field too long.Its up to them to get off the field.

Sgt. Largent":2pgjjv9c said:

mistaowen":2pgjjv9c said:

Andy Dalton looked like his typical self for most of the game yesterday until crunch time - I thought we were officially back after the fumble recovery. Previous years teams pound Marshawn to close out the game after that. 17 point lead losses are pretty disheartening but I put way more of the loss on the offense than the defense. It was a joke what we accomplished in the last two quarters.

Sherm played well, AJ Green didn't do much after he started to shadow him. I'd say a majority of the big plays came against Cary Williams and Kam. Cary had those two 25+ yard penalties and repeatedly gave up passes. I don't recall a single good play he made. The thing that made me most upset was watching him not even reach out to try and jam at the LOS. They'd just run past him and he'd already be in catch up mode, at the line of scrimmage. That was also Kam's worst game in a very long time.

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I do not think Sherman had a good game. Compared to Williams and Kam? I guess.........but I just don't see the same nasty chip on his shoulder pit bull Sherman.

Glad he got paid and has a new baby, but IMO he's soft now and has lost his edge. We're paying him to be an elite shut down corner, so he shouldn't have more PI calls than interceptions.

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He's definitely not barking and jawing like he used to. I don't think he gave up a pass from the second quarter until the big 3rd down conversion to AJ Green late in the game, but that was a great play call to isolate them outside. Not much to do there, he beat him by half a step inside and it was over.

Cary's play was troublesome, I think he's been alright so far but he didn't step up once yesterday. His ball skills remind me of a taller Kelly Jennings, always there but never looking for the ball. We're missing that playmaking ability from CB2 that Maxwell had. Each week you know that side will be tested and he would make them pay with a big interception or strip even if he'd give up some passes earlier.

mistaowen":3pmid131 said:

Cary's play was troublesome, I think he's been alright so far but he didn't step up once yesterday. His ball skills remind me of a taller Kelly Jennings, always there but never looking for the ball. We're missing that playmaking ability from CB2 that Maxwell had. Each week you know that side will be tested and he would make them pay with a big interception or strip even if he'd give up some passes earlier.

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For sure Williams worst game of the year, but IMO before yesterday he was actually playing better than Sherman this year.

Do we miss Maxwell? Sure, he's more physical and played the CB2 position with more tenacity than Williams.

But the woes of the LOB goes much further than Williams. Sherman, Kam, Earl and even not having 1-2 dependable nickel DB's has killed us.

Maybe you're on to something, just human nature right?

They've just been to 2 Super Bowls in a row, 9 out of the 11 starters are on big veteran contracts now. I mean Irvin is still on his rookie deal, Rubin is on a reasonable 1 year deal.

But that's a well paid unit, who at this point doesn't have much to fight for. There's no reason for a 'chip on shoulder' anymore, there's no disrespect card to play.

I don't know, not sure I agree yet. But can see it.

Our defence has issues this season, which can be worked out over time, how long it takes is up to the "team".

The facts show that giving up 4th quarter leads isn't a new phenomena with this defense:

this Seahawks defense has never excelled at holding fourth quarter leads. There have been seventeen games since 2012, including the playoffs, where the Seahawks have surrendered a fourth quarter lead.

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