Sorry... Another Jimmy thread. Honest question, help.

I'm sitting here at Dinah's in Culver City eating some fried chicken when I get one of those "ESPN Alert" things on my phone.

It says, "Incorporating Jimmy Graham (62 yards in two games) into the offense will take time, writes Sheil Kapadia"

I've been more than a fan the last 40 years, but never played high school ball and don't pretend to understand schemes and coaching strategies. That's why I've called .net my homescreen the last 10 years or so, I've learned a ton. I would love to hear what some of you guys think about this. Why does it require so much time to incorporate him into the offense? Is there really that much involved? To a less than expert like myself, it seems like a silly argument. I'm sure it's more complicated than it seems on the surface.

I'm curious what many of the .netters who understand the game better than I think about this. Kearly, Tical, English etc. Is it really that time consuming and complicated to incorporate him into the offense? What is involved? Isn't that what pre season is for?

Basically, does that headline have merit or is it as silly as it seems to me?

Feel free to delete if superfluous...


One more thing.....

We are 0-2, and I effing love the Seatlle Seahawks. We are going to be relevant and competive for the next 3-5 years. How can guys not be excited for that?

Chemistry is a real thing, so sometimes it takes time for Pete, Bevell, Russell and Jimmy to figure out how to best use him.

Preseason and camp is worthless until you get to games that count so you can see how teams are trying to neutralize Graham. So I assume that's what the writer means, might take some time for us to get Russell and Jimmy into situations, formations and plays where he can be successful.

Having said this, I've seen some of the game analysis today on Graham, and there was at least 4-5 times Russell just flat out didn't see him, or didn't check out of play calls where Graham had one on one coverage. I don't care what the hell the play is, if you see Graham on the outside with one on one coverage against a small DB or slow ass LB? You throw him the damn ball EVERY TIME.

Sgt. Largent":60kpy404 said:

Having said this, I've seen some of the game analysis today on Graham, and there was at least 4-5 times Russell just flat out didn't see him, or didn't check out of play calls where Graham had one on one coverage. I don't care what the hell the play is, if you see Graham on the outside with one on one coverage against a small DB or slow ass LB? You throw him the damn ball EVERY TIME.

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THIS!!!

Did they not watch tape of him in New Orleans? The guy feasts on one-on-one coverage.

Watching us run into a pile on third and 3 and Graham is one on one on the outside is baffling. I think that's on Wilson to change the play. I'm right behind Anthony! when it comes to Wilson but I don't understand why we don't take advantage of situations like these when they come up.

I think you raise very good points. I'm just throwing this out there but I'm wondering if this has more to do with Bevell just being stubborn. In the sense of doing the opposite of what he did with Harvin. Did he swear to himself that he would never game plan his offense to one player again? Regardless, I don't understand why they need to gameplan for him. Hell, throw a couple 10 yard back shoulder passes, see what happens. At least try.

Another possibility is that Graham has not learned the system well enough to fit into the gameplan. In essence they give him 6 strong plays that he knows well but they all have been snuffed out by the Rams and the Packers. I doubt this though because IMHO our offense is not that complicated. I think the stuff that Sean Payton ran in NO was way more intricate.

1.)Most importantly Russ has to have confidence in him and get the ball up higher when throwing to him.
2.)Have to have routes that force single coverage. To do this, Lynch/jackson/rawls and Wilson on the read option have to be on the table every play. Open backfield...no. Also by routes that force single coverage (or zone) you have to get your receivers into different areas and distances on the field.
3.) Offensive playcalling has to be shaken up. Use the same formation to run 3 completely different plays. Bevell tends to make a run play look like a pass play or vice versa, but if you line up the same way and have a primary run play, a primary short pass play, and a primary development recieving play with the same look pre snap, it makes them have to keep spread out. The pistol run Lynch up the middle is tired and rarely works for more than 3 yards, and lately has been for a loss more often than not. Look back at the last game and other than on special defenses green bay ran to stop large gains a few times, they were running us pretty tight on the LOS. 2nd half we finally exploited this, but could have been the entire 2nd qtr as well.

Other teams DC's have a fairly easy job preparing for us as we don't get creative, we just depend on our players being superior to theirs via talent and fundamentals practice. Don't get me wrong, a guy like Graham should be superior to most people covering him, but when they watch tape going back 3 years and see us pretty much doing the same things, it is becoming much easier to neutralize our threats via defensive scheme and matchups.

I think a part of this is that we're completely not used to receivers who don't NEED play action to amass yards and be a threat. Russ seems out of his element to simply audible a 7 yard stop route when we recognize Jimmy at the LOS single covered. There's a part of me that is starting to believe Jimmy works best with deep, straight qb drops and balls thrown right out of his break. That's something we don't do often, considering we utilize play action so extensively.

1. Russ took Jimmy and the other receivers to Hawaii to develop chemistry, and both reported success.

2. Jimmy bird-dogged Russ before that to develop chemistry, and both reported success.

3. The coaching chain from Pete thru Bevell down to Russ did not observe this chemistry, and have not acted on this hearsay chemistry, despite the unanimous reports.

4. I blame the coaching chain, and ask Pete to solve this problem.

In all honesty, I could care less about what they said about not designing an offense around him...yadda yadda... Bevell should spend this entire week reviewing the Saints offense and script at least 7-10 plays specifically for Graham in this next upcoming game.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JaysonJenks/status/645783186950221824[/tweet]

I told y'all when you made the trade. Graham cannot block AT ALL. He is a one dimensional player that is only successful when placed in a mismatch and targeted by an elite passing QB. As much as I like Wilson (I went to NCSU), throwing that pass to the back shoulder in the mismatch doesn't seem to be his strength at this point. Graham is clearly a detriment to the run game as he was to ours. If he is in at all on the run (which the Saints stopped even trying), the other team knows you are going the other direction.

seahawkfreak":mog8oz57 said:

. Did he swear to himself that he would never game plan his offense to one player again? .

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Yes - and I posted about how troubling this was when I read it.....

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 76269.html

Not Jimmy related but I hope you have a better experience at Dinah's than I did. Place wasn't that great.

Good post. Not redundant IMO. I fear Guido knows what he's talking about.

Not to stir the pot, but before we start shifting an entire offense toward Graham, I honestly need more evidence that he's more than just a situational player or that he is more useful out wide than shiftier WRs who can work with a scramble-drill QB. I get that he's a beast in the redzone; I've seen it. Does this necessarily mean he should be eating up all the targets?

Here's an underreported stat: before he was traded, New Orleans had Graham's snap count in steady decline and it was around 70% toward the end of last year. A few months later, the Saints cold call John Schneider and ask if he'd like to take Graham off their hands for inexplicable reasons. Even more inexplicable, John shrugs his shoulders and hands over a 1st round pick. I said then that was way too much for a player New Orleans had seemingly quit on. Does a 70% play count sound like an indispensable player who should be the centerpiece of an offense? Gronkowski plays all the snaps -- if he's healthy, he's in the game. Jimmy was playing less than a slot receiver.

Don't get me wrong, use him. And use him at what he's good at. But this expectation that he would be an unstoppable force up and down the field was a bit unrealistic from the beginning IMO.

I'm all for spreading the ball around but there has to come a point where Graham is the target, and he should be your only target.

I can't believe I'm saying this but, this is what I admire about the Patriots. The Patriots have set plays where Gronk is the only guy they'll throw it too and it doesn't even matter who's covering him.

It's schemed to where they know it'll be one on one or at least it's high estimated successful completion.

Why can't our offense do that with Graham?

Is our offensive line really that pathetic?

Or is josh mcdaniels that much better of an offensive coordinator than Darrell Bevell.

Cause I like to think most teams wouldn't find it difficult to create an offensive game plan for Graham.

And here we have him but his talents are being wasted.

DavidSeven":1r050dbt said:

Not to stir the pot, but before we start shifting an entire offense toward Graham, I honestly need more evidence that he's more than just a situational player or that he is more useful out wide than shiftier WRs who can work with a scramble-drill QB. I get that he's a beast in the redzone; I've seen it. Does this necessarily mean he should be eating up all the targets?

Here's an underreported stat: before he was traded, New Orleans had Graham's snap count in steady decline and it was around 70% toward the end of last year. A few months later, the Saints cold call John Schneider and ask if he'd like to take Graham off their hands for inexplicable reasons. Even more inexplicable, John shrugs his shoulders and hands over a 1st round pick. I said then that was way too much for a player New Orleans had seemingly quit on. Does a 70% play count sound like an indispensable player who should be the centerpiece of an offense? Gronkowski plays all the snaps. Jimmy was playing less than a slot receiver.

Don't get me wrong, use him. And use him at what he's good at. But the notion that he is an unstoppable force up and down the field is a bit much IMO. If that was true, then they wouldn't take him off the field.

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He may not be the Jimmy Graham of old, but 2-3 targets? I would test his ineffectiveness out on the field by force-feeding him plays, before being sure of assured his ability and effectiveness has diminished.

rastahawk":354c2m62 said:

Not Jimmy related but I hope you have a better experience at Dinah's than I did. Place wasn't that great.

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Fried chicken and eggs brother. It's the only reason I go.

jake206":1s9srb4x said:

DavidSeven":1s9srb4x said:

Not to stir the pot, but before we start shifting an entire offense toward Graham, I honestly need more evidence that he's more than just a situational player or that he is more useful out wide than shiftier WRs who can work with a scramble-drill QB. I get that he's a beast in the redzone; I've seen it. Does this necessarily mean he should be eating up all the targets?

Here's an underreported stat: before he was traded, New Orleans had Graham's snap count in steady decline and it was around 70% toward the end of last year. A few months later, the Saints cold call John Schneider and ask if he'd like to take Graham off their hands for inexplicable reasons. Even more inexplicable, John shrugs his shoulders and hands over a 1st round pick. I said then that was way too much for a player New Orleans had seemingly quit on. Does a 70% play count sound like an indispensable player who should be the centerpiece of an offense? Gronkowski plays all the snaps. Jimmy was playing less than a slot receiver.

Don't get me wrong, use him. And use him at what he's good at. But the notion that he is an unstoppable force up and down the field is a bit much IMO. If that was true, then they wouldn't take him off the field.

Click to expand...

He may not be the Jimmy Graham of old, but 2-3 targets? I would test his ineffectiveness out on the field by force-feeding him plays, before being sure of assured his ability and effectiveness has diminished.

Click to expand...

It was just one game. He got 8 targets the game before that. It's going to fluctuate throughout the year. One thing that Russell has struggled with, and I've always said this, is honing in on specific talent advantages around the field. He treats raw UDFAs and unskilled TEs about the same way as he treats expensive WRs/TEs with 1,000 yard seasons under their belts. The result, I think, is that there will be games where Jimmy's face is on a milk carton. It has happened to every single offensive player who's played here in the Russell Wilson era from time to time. Tate, Rice, Harvin, Baldwin, Miller, etc. He has taken Pete's "Point Guard QB" ideal to heart; sometimes to the benefit of the team and sometimes to its detriment.

When is comes to passing; RW is no Brees.

Did anyone notice in the Rams game when in the redzone, JG runs to the goal line, turns around and is shocked the ball isn't there? Remember the look on his face?

However, I still have faith we'll turn this around and figure it out. Go 'Hawks!

We are trying to fit a round pig on a square hole. That's what is going on currently, we are asking a premium receiver to block while he is used to playing jump ball and winning them 9 out of 10 times. I understand the philosophy of run first, but if the line is not able to make holes or when the opposing team stacks 8 to stop the run, it should be an easy call to throw the ball more. RW should stop doing screen passes and instead stay in the pocket if the line gives him time and keep taking what the defense gives you. With so many weapons in our offense and a stellar Running backs, the defense cannot game plan to cover everyone at the same time.