Breaking down Frank Clark -- how he compares to Dante Fowler

theENGLISHseahawk · May 3, 2015

The tape is incredibly impressive here. The measurables off the charts. The only thing keeping him out of the first round is the serious character flags.

LINK: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/seattles-f ... -explosion

Clark’s a shade under 6-3, he’s 271lbs and ran a 4.64. Fowler Jr is 10lbs lighter and ran a 4.60 at the combine. Clark beat Fowler Jr in the vertical (38.5 vs 32.5 inches), broad (118 vs 112 inches), three cone (7.08 vs 7.40), short shuttle (4.05 vs 4.32) and the 60-yard shuttle (11.22 vs 11.89).

They’re virtually the same height but Clark’s arms are an inch longer at 34.5 inches.

The most important measurable might be the 10-yard split. Clark ran a 1.58 while Fowler Jr managed a 1.59. Anything under 1.60 is considered excellent.

Statistically Fowler Jr managed 15 TFL’s in 2014 compared to Clark’s 13.5 — although he played two more games due to Clark’s dismissal.

HawkFan72 · May 3, 2015

I'm excited now. Thanks for the write up!

Scottemojo · May 3, 2015

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

hawknation2015 · May 3, 2015

I'm not as thrilled as you are over Clark's tape . . . he did have 35 "pressures," but he only reached the QB 10 times (4.5 sacks and 5 hits). He seemed to go totally unblocked on many of those sacks/hits. While you say it is an asset that Clark engages with blockers, rather than relying on speed, I actually wish Clark would use his explosiveness and long arms to get around defenders and into the backfield more quickly.

QBs get rid of the ball fast in the NFL. If he is going to play nickel LEO (and we don't really have anyone else, except Irvin), he is going to need to use his natural athleticism and long arms to explode into the backfield. He also needs to improve the diversity of his pass rushing moves -- maybe train in MMA like Clay Matthews and J.J. Watt did before their breakout seasons.

theENGLISHseahawk · May 3, 2015

hawknation2015":p0n2pmw0 said:
I'm not as thrilled as you are over Clark's tape . . . he did have 35 "pressures," but he only reached the QB 10 times (4.5 sacks and 5 hits). He seemed to go totally unblocked on many of those sacks/hits. While you say it is an asset that Clark engages with blockers, rather than relying on speed, I actually wish Clark would use his explosiveness and long arms to get around defenders and into the backfield more quickly.

QBs get rid of the ball fast in the NFL. If he is going to play nickel LEO (and we don't really have anyone else, except Irvin), he is going to need to use his natural athleticism and long arms to explode into the backfield. He also needs to improve the diversity of his pass rushing moves -- maybe train in MMA like Clay Matthews and J.J. Watt did before their breakout seasons.

13.5 TFL's.

It's not all about sacks.

Hawks46 · May 3, 2015

Scottemojo":bzhmdoav said:
Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

olyfan63 · May 3, 2015

Hawks46":2z4ncwzh said:
Scottemojo":2z4ncwzh said:

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Click to expand...

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

Makes me wonder if Pete and Tom Cable are working on a new trend, of super-quick OL, redefining the position. Doing to the OL position what they did to cornerback. Who knows, maybe that and borrowing some pages from the Chip Kelly Oregon up-tempo one-play-five-options offense.

Hawkfan77 · May 3, 2015

Hawks46":rdjsiyge said:
Scottemojo":rdjsiyge said:

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Click to expand...

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

It's not about having guys play well. Carroll is always searching for ways to do things that no one else is doing. He will never be satisfied and good enough just isn't.

When he talks about competition and always competing, it's not just about the players on the roster competing and becoming better. Pete is competing with 31 other teams, trying to find new ways to gain an advantage. He's transformed the way teams look at CBs and he could be transforming the way they view OL and the center position. For all we know if 5 years every team will be looking for a Sokoli type player for their center position.

hawknation2015 · May 3, 2015

theENGLISHseahawk":teszgos4 said:
hawknation2015":teszgos4 said:

I'm not as thrilled as you are over Clark's tape . . . he did have 35 "pressures," but he only reached the QB 10 times (4.5 sacks and 5 hits). He seemed to go totally unblocked on many of those sacks/hits. While you say it is an asset that Clark engages with blockers, rather than relying on speed, I actually wish Clark would use his explosiveness and long arms to get around defenders and into the backfield more quickly.

QBs get rid of the ball fast in the NFL. If he is going to play nickel LEO (and we don't really have anyone else, except Irvin), he is going to need to use his natural athleticism and long arms to explode into the backfield. He also needs to improve the diversity of his pass rushing moves -- maybe train in MMA like Clay Matthews and J.J. Watt did before their breakout seasons.

Click to expand...

13.5 TFL's.

It's not all about sacks.

He plays the run extremely well.

Scottemojo · May 4, 2015

olyfan63":2g41s9og said:
Hawks46":2g41s9og said:

Scottemojo":2g41s9og said:

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Click to expand...

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

Click to expand...

Makes me wonder if Pete and Tom Cable are working on a new trend, of super-quick OL, redefining the position. Doing to the OL position what they did to cornerback. Who knows, maybe that and borrowing some pages from the Chip Kelly Oregon up-tempo one-play-five-options offense.

Think of Sokoli as Pete's Aaron Donald matchup.

@46. I have no idea what they were thinking. Tape on him is pretty scant, maybe his instincts suck.

Popeyejones · May 4, 2015

The differences are that Fowler produced in his last year of college whereas Clark didn't, and Fowler didn't get kicked off his team for beating the crap out of his girlfriend.

Both of those are big things.

The other differences is that scouts viewed Fowler's deficiencies as a player fixable (moving around the field too much to develop the skill set at his position; needs to increase his lower body strength) whereas Clark's deficiencies were viewed as being more long term (a guy who performed in college out of effort rather than talent which might not transition to the NFL; not a good feel for the game, etc.)

In any case, those three things really are definitely enough to be the difference between a high first and 2nd round pick.

Largent80 · May 4, 2015

Popeyejones":rsuievya said:
The differences are that Fowler produced in his last year of college whereas Clark didn't, and Fowler didn't get kicked off his team for beating the crap out of his girlfriend.

He is a Seahawk now , with your QB in his sights, I can see why the salt is evident...... :lol:

theENGLISHseahawk · May 4, 2015

Popeyejones":1sg4ou7y said:
The differences are that Fowler produced in his last year of college whereas Clark didn't, and Fowler didn't get kicked off his team for beating the crap out of his girlfriend.

Both of those are big things.

Dante Fowler Jr's 2014 stats: 15 TFL's, 8.5 sacks in 12 games

Frank Clark's 2014 stats: 13.5 TFL's, 4.5 sacks in 10 games.

So basically pretty much a wash given Clark played two fewer games.

But thanks for caring enough to respond.

Popeyejones · May 4, 2015

Largent80":xvnbj0kq said:
Popeyejones":xvnbj0kq said:

The differences are that Fowler produced in his last year of college whereas Clark didn't, and Fowler didn't get kicked off his team for beating the crap out of his girlfriend.

Click to expand...

He is a Seahawk now , with your QB in his sights, I can see why the salt is evident...... :lol:

Only here is saying that Clark doesn't compare favorably to the #3 overall pick an insult to him. :lol:

As a football pick I like it. (emphasis on football pick).

Popeyejones · May 4, 2015

theENGLISHseahawk":6aoow5cr said:
Popeyejones":6aoow5cr said:

The differences are that Fowler produced in his last year of college whereas Clark didn't, and Fowler didn't get kicked off his team for beating the crap out of his girlfriend.

Both of those are big things.

Click to expand...

Dante Fowler Jr's 2014 stats: 15 TFL's, 8.5 sacks in 12 games

Frank Clark's 2014 stats: 13.5 TFL's, 4.5 sacks in 10 games.

So basically pretty much a wash given Clark played two fewer games.

But thanks for caring enough to respond.

See the rest of my post, which you might have missed.

Yeah, Fowler outperformed Clark, scouts think his deficiencies are more fixable than Clark's and won't hinder him at the next level, Fowler didn't "miss two games" from being kicked off the team, and Fowler didn't commit domestic violence.

Maybe Clark ends up being a better player than Fowler. There's no way to know. Playing aloof as to who the better prospect was is pretty silly though, IMO.

theENGLISHseahawk · May 4, 2015

Hang on a minute, who is playing aloof to that?

Presumably you haven't read the piece, otherwise you wouldn't have needed me to point out the statistics in my previous post.

Perhaps you should actually read it before jumping to conclusions.

Thank you.

Popeyejones · May 4, 2015

theENGLISHseahawk":1yio9ula said:
Hang on a minute, who is playing aloof to that?

Presumably you haven't read the piece, otherwise you wouldn't have needed me to point out the statistics in my previous post.

Perhaps you should actually read it before jumping to conclusions.

Thank you.

Need you to point out which statistics? They're just repeated from your OP.

At the end of the day you're brushing aside the statistics that you don't like (sacks), why scouts think their pro ability might head in opposite directions, that Clark was kicked off his team ("missed two games" :lol: ) and that Fowler is 14 months younger and pushing up the statistics you do like in order to make the case they're comparable.

That's fine. We disagree. What of it?

Clark is a good football prospect, and still not Fowler, even if he hadn't have beat up his girlfriend.

McGruff · May 4, 2015

Hawks46":344y416u said:
Scottemojo":344y416u said:

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Click to expand...

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

Just a guess, based on limited tape. IIRC Buffalo runs a 3-4 defense. There is no 3tech in a 3-4. They could've played him outside at DE in the 3-4, but I would also guess that at a place like Buffalo, Sokoli was the biggest and strongest guy on the team, making him their best NT.

Sometimes its about doing what's needed for the tteam, not what's best for the player.

theENGLISHseahawk · May 4, 2015

Popeyejones":1ivuu3u9 said:
why scouts think their pro ability might head in opposite directions

Remind me.... How many scouts have you spoken to on this matter?

dumbrabbit · May 4, 2015

theENGLISHseahawk":fmpu4neh said:
Popeyejones":fmpu4neh said:

The differences are that Fowler produced in his last year of college whereas Clark didn't, and Fowler didn't get kicked off his team for beating the crap out of his girlfriend.

Both of those are big things.

Click to expand...

Dante Fowler Jr's 2014 stats: 15 TFL's, 8.5 sacks in 12 games

Frank Clark's 2014 stats: 13.5 TFL's, 4.5 sacks in 10 games.

So basically pretty much a wash given Clark played two fewer games.

But thanks for caring enough to respond.

The biggest difference for me is that Clark is a late second and Fowler is an early first. We get almost Fowler's statistics in clark without having to trade up in the first to get him.

Breaking down Frank Clark -- how he compares to Dante Fowler

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