Seahawks FO power structure still being confused

BigBallsPete

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Yesterday, on the Brock and Salk show, the conversation turned to the power structure breakdown in the Seahawks FO. I suggest you take a listen, because it was once again implied that John Schneider and Pete Carroll have equal power and somehow magically come to a consensus on every decision they make. In fact, Pete has final say on all football matters and no consensus is needed. What about the Seahawks power structure is so confusing for our local media?

The conversation starts at about 36:00 :
http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_pla ... and%20Salk

and continuous into the 2nd hour:
http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_player_sports/?a=9981644&p=1007&n=Brock and Salk

Here are some of the better quotes:
[Why do the Seahawks succeed] "Is it because of the structure that puts neither one [Pete or John] of them fully in charge?"
"It's a flattened hierarchy."
"I never thought this convoluted management structure would work."
"John Schneider does not report to Pete Carroll."

From Wikipedia:
Generally, Schneider will scout the players and report to Carroll who has final decision over roster moves. The relationship has been described as Schneider setting the menu and Carroll picking specific players off of it.

From Wikipedia:
Carroll was officially hired as the Seahawks head coach on January 11.[42] He was also named executive vice president of football operations, effectively making him the Seahawks' general manager as well. While the Seahawks have a general manager in John Schneider, he serves mainly in an advisory role to Carroll, who has the final say in football matters. In fact, Schneider was actually hired by Carroll—a rare case of the head coach hiring the general manager. He is one of four current NFL coaches who also have the title or powers of general manager, along with the Patriots' Bill Belichick, Philadelphia Eagles' Chip Kelly and the Kansas City Chiefs' Andy Reid.

.Net ran a poll in 2013 asking the question "Who would you rather have for the next decade: Carroll or Schneider?"

Schneider won that poll 56% - 44%.

If the Pats forum had a similar poll with Bill Belichick and Nick Caserio; would Caserio get a single vote? I wonder how many Pats fans (let alone NFL fans) even know who Nick Caserio is.
 

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themunn

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so what you're saying is Schneider is the boss man?
 

Cartire

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Don't have time to listen to the broadcast, but I'm pretty sure you are correct and Pete has final say. That being said, John is a smart man and excellent talent finder. I feel like Pete may have final say, but goes with Johns calls a lot more then not. Just like a president and his advisors. The president has final say, but more often then not, goes with the advice he's given.
 

mjwhitay

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How far up in the front office is your position? It must be cool to work for the team and know exactly what happensat the GM/president level. Can you share some cool stories of what's it's like to be on the inside of the Seahawks franchise????
 

brimsalabim

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Wiki isn't always correct though. How ever they are handling it is working.
 
OP
OP
BigBallsPete

BigBallsPete

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@mjwhitay
All of the info in the OP is public and was released by the Seahawks themselves.

@brimsalabim
I know Wiki isn't always correct, is it wrong in this case though?
 

hawknation2015

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BigBallsPete":24xd8mix said:
@mjwhitay
All of the info in the OP is public and was released by the Seahawks themselves.

@brimsalabim
I know Wiki isn't always correct, is it wrong in this case though?

You are 100% correct. Just to add to that, Carroll handpicked John Schneider to be the GM with input from Allen and Leiweke. So without Carroll, we might not have Schneider. Carroll played a greater role in scouting from 2010-2012 because he was more familiar with those draft prospects, having scouted many of them since they were in high school. Since the 2013 draft class, Carroll has had to increasingly rely on Schneider and their staff to devote time and resources to scouting, as he has much less familiarity with these prospects than he did from 2010-2012. Even so, they are scouting for players based on his coaching philosophy.

I'm kind of surprised so many would prefer to have Schneider to Carroll, only because I see a great coach as so much more valuable than a great GM. Both are great and extremely important, but great talent without great coaching is virtually useless (as the 49ers can attest to pre-Harbaugh). Meanwhile, below average talent with great coaching can lead to playoff wins, as Carroll's first season showed.
 

NorCalSeahawkFan

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I could care less, whatever they are doing is working. The less we and the press know the better. When we had Holmgren, Whitsitt and Ruskell (how ever you spell it) everyone knew what was going on. We all knew it was not good. The Seahawks won 1 Super Bowl and have a good shot at another one. All this speculation is just BS. The front office is doing a good job of getting wins, and the media and some bandwagon fans are just trying to find ways to tear it down. Wilson isn't whatever enough, Marshawn is not going to be on the team next year, unless he is. This could go on for days, weeks and months, and it has.

What I know is whatever they are doing is working, and I am PROUD AS HELL TO BE A LONG TIME SEAHAWKFAN!
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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Our FO is elite not because of what John and Pete do at the top of the pyramid but they allow everyone in the organization to make decisions from the other coaches to the scouts. And allow those decisions to sink or swim.

Scouts sell their players, and the coaches decide whether those guys fit their style , and are players they can coach up.

This organization isn't just strong at the top, its built from the bottom up, and that's why it took a couple of years to get talent to fit the philosphy and then coach them up, but now that the Seahawks have its core and its lifestyle, the structure is built to last.

Its not an NFL dynasty yet but the Seahawks will be an NFL powerhouse for a long time. 10+ wins teams for the next 4-6 years.
 

kpak76

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Pandion Haliaetus":24ujg4mg said:
Our FO is elite not because of what John and Pete do at the top of the pyramid but they allow everyone in the organization to make decisions from the other coaches to the scouts. And allow those decisions to sink or swim.

Scouts sell their players, and the coaches decide whether those guys fit their style , and are players they can coach up.

This organization isn't just strong at the top, its built from the bottom up, and that's why it took a couple of years to get talent to fit the philosphy and then coach them up, but now that the Seahawks have its core and its lifestyle, the structure is built to last.

Its not an NFL dynasty yet but the Seahawks will be an NFL powerhouse for a long time. 10+ wins teams for the next 4-6 years.

They started to get talent the first draft they were in business together. Their first draft produced Okung, ET29, Tate, Thurmond, and Kam Bam. Thats a pretty darn good class right there. This FO we had their shit together from day 1. It didn't take them a couple of years to "find talent".
 

trharder

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I wonder if some people have a secret desire for us to be winning as a result of a savant, money ball, type guy in Schneider rather than Pete, who can't quite completely shake the rah-rah players coach image, which some don't seem to like.

Pete was recently mic-ed up and had a conversation with Paul Allen that I thought was interesting. As much power as Pete has, he still has to placate Paul Allen. Paul Allen mentions it seems like Russell "is getting better", to which Pete alludes to previous conversations where RW had been discussed. Sucking up a little to Paul Allen is obviously well within Pete's wheelhouse, and he probably never gives it a second thought, but it made me as a fly on the wall, a little uncomfortable.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... e939370ab7
 

McGruff

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The structure is irrelevant. The bottom line comes down not to an orgaziational flow chart, but a more mysterious thing called "synergy."

Who reports to whom is inconsequential. The most important thing is they work together in a relationship that is greater than its constituent parts and the relationship becomes a third entity in and of itself.

Jo-Pete. That's all that matters.
 

TDOTSEAHAWK

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Pete is the special part of this machine.

He has developed his philosophy over a long period of time and brings it here. Anyone who knows anything about Pete Carroll knows that this team is based entirely around his paradigm for what a team should be.

John Schneider, is the glue that holds it together however. He takes Pete's grand ideas and ensures the practical implementation of them. John Schneider scouts players, plans the salary cap and negotiates contracts. I have no doubt Carroll has little to do with the nitty gritty details.
 

AgentDib

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Rather, they leverage their synergy to shift the paradigm and empower sustainable organic growth throughout the organization. Schneider collaborates with his scouts to add value by pushing the envelope to maximize salary return on investment. Pete brings to the table an innovative holistic approach that improves the core competencies of his players and facilitates stakeholder acquisition of mission critical data.

This thread reminds me of these sort of articles which were written when Pete was first hired:

SunBreak":21ob24rr said:
“My job is to take the football organization and make sure that there’s fantastic collaboration,” said CEO Tod Leiweke. Leiweke apparently has a new favorite phrase: “working shoulder-to-shoulder.” I, for one, will believe it when I see it. I suspect the Era of Good Feelings will last exactly 99 days–the duration between now and the April 22nd NFL draft.
...
Now–when it comes to these picks, you can’t really “collaborate” on a decision... In the NFL draft, you submit one name. There’s not much room for “collaboration” in that scenario. And if you think Leiweke, Carroll, and the as-yet-unnamed GM will agree on that name? Well, you are one of the greatest optimists of our time.
..
With so much at stake, “collaboration” is going to be a tough mission. Like I say, I’ll believe it when I see it.
 

volsunghawk

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I think that if you look at some of the OP's older posts, it becomes clear that this is an issue he takes somewhat personally. I don't know why he has an issue with Schneider receiving some credit for Seattle's success, but it seems that he does.
 

sc85sis

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hawknation2015":h0j6d04j said:
BigBallsPete":h0j6d04j said:
@mjwhitay
All of the info in the OP is public and was released by the Seahawks themselves.

@brimsalabim
I know Wiki isn't always correct, is it wrong in this case though?

You are 100% correct. Just to add to that, Carroll handpicked John Schneider to be the GM with input from Allen and Leiweke. So without Carroll, we might not have Schneider. Carroll played a greater role in scouting from 2010-2012 because he was more familiar with those draft prospects, having scouted many of them since they were in high school. Since the 2013 draft class, Carroll has had to increasingly rely on Schneider and their staff to devote time and resources to scouting, as he has much less familiarity with these prospects than he did from 2010-2012. Even so, they are scouting for players based on his coaching philosophy.

I'm kind of surprised so many would prefer to have Schneider to Carroll, only because I see a great coach as so much more valuable than a great GM. Both are great and extremely important, but great talent without great coaching is virtually useless (as the 49ers can attest to pre-Harbaugh). Meanwhile, below average talent with great coaching can lead to playoff wins, as Carroll's first season showed.

Yes, this is correct; Pete and John work hand-in-hand, but Pete has ultimate say over player personnel. After the disappointment of his tenure in New England, that was critical to Pete if he were to coach in the NFL again. Without the assurance (verbally and likely also contractually) from Paul Allen and Tod Leiweke that this would be the case, Pete would probably still be at USC. I believe they actually asked if he wanted to be GM, but he said no.

Pete wanted John over the other GM finalists because they hit it off right away, had similar ideas and energy and Pete knew they could work well together. It should also be noted that Pete told John he wanted their relationship to be famous--as in setting a new standard for coach/GM collaboration.
 

sc85sis

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trharder":1bkta6xm said:
I wonder if some people have a secret desire for us to be winning as a result of a savant, money ball, type guy in Schneider rather than Pete, who can't quite completely shake the rah-rah players coach image, which some don't seem to like.

Pete was recently mic-ed up and had a conversation with Paul Allen that I thought was interesting. As much power as Pete has, he still has to placate Paul Allen. Paul Allen mentions it seems like Russell "is getting better", to which Pete alludes to previous conversations where RW had been discussed. Sucking up a little to Paul Allen is obviously well within Pete's wheelhouse, and he probably never gives it a second thought, but it made me as a fly on the wall, a little uncomfortable.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... e939370ab7

Paul noticed something that he thought was positive and commented on it and Pete responded. I had no sense Pete was having to placate or suck up to Paul. If anything, they both came across to me as just being excited about how Russell is progressing.
 

themunn

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AgentDib":2vud0x5g said:
Rather, they leverage their synergy to shift the paradigm and empower sustainable organic growth throughout the organization.

Now you're talking my language
 

Osprey

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AgentDib":g5cu8eyk said:
Rather, they leverage their synergy to shift the paradigm and empower sustainable organic growth throughout the organization. Schneider collaborates with his scouts to add value by pushing the envelope to maximize salary return on investment. Pete brings to the table an innovative holistic approach that improves the core competencies of his players and facilitates stakeholder acquisition of mission critical data.


[youtube]-IpPPDYWexE[/youtube]
 

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