Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

SeatownJay

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Proof that you can use statistics to frame an argument in multiple ways. Russell Wilson set career bests this year in completions, attempts, yards, and interception percentage. He also set career lows in completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, touchdown percentage, and passer rating.

So one could use stats to argue that 2014 was both Wilson's best and worst season of his career.

Sometimes stats just aren't enough to base a complete picture on.
 

MidwestHawker

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Obviously some stats are more meaningful than others.

I mean...you included him setting a career "best" in attempts as part of an argument for being his best season. That's not even an inherently positive stat. And obviously if that's at its highest level, completions and yards will follow. All bulk volume stats are pretty questionable in their value in assessing a QB.

What you've laid out isn't a good indictment of stats in general as a measuring tool...it's just an indictment of certain stats.
 

Sgt. Largent

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I remember something Gruden said about Russell when he did his college QB session with him, he said something to the effect of "I don't care what people say, when I watch film of Russell, he jumps off the screen."

That's why all these end of the year awards suck, because they don't even begin to define what certain players bring to their respective teams.

Here's what I know, the NFL is a league filled with the most gifted athletic specimens on the planet.........and our QB makes those athletes look stupid. Very few players in the history of the game have done that. Fran Tarkenton, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, Marshawn Lynch........guys where you're actually laughing because of how dumb they're making the other team look at times.
 

byau

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MidwestHawker":95hrzh4u said:
Obviously some stats are more meaningful than others.

I mean...you included him setting a career "best" in attempts as part of an argument for being his best season. That's not even an inherently positive stat. And obviously if that's at its highest level, completions and yards will follow. All bulk volume stats are pretty questionable in their value in assessing a QB.

What you've laid out isn't a good indictment of stats in general as a measuring tool...it's just an indictment of certain stats.

Stats are definitely a good measuring tool. After all, it is what has happened. It doesn't mean it's going to happen again, because now the trick is to learn from history and stats.

Most notably, all those stats about SB hangovers ..yeah those are what has happened, not what will happen.
 

MidwestHawker

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The SB hangover thing is kind of a misleading stat in terms of predictive value, because it doesn't account for the fact that the champion usually isn't the best team in football that year and thus certainly shouldn't be expected to repeat. I would say that it may be more useful just to look at how teams fare after winning the title as a #1 seed, but even that might be borderline worthless just because of sample size issues.
 

hawkfan68

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There's only one stat that matters and doesn't lie.....it's wins and losses. I believe the Seahawks are doing well with that stat currently.
 

BullHawk33

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We're going to have to just get used to the fact that Russell will not get the respect that many of us think he should because he just flat out won't measure up to the same metrics as other quarterbacks, whether it is height, passing yards etc.. RW, like the rest of the Seahawks organization will always be that team up in South Alaska.

Accept the role, accept the fact that the chip will always remain firmly on the shoulder. Accept that Russell will always be seen as a tertiary elite QB measured by his teams success more so than his individual numbers.
 

Seahawk Sailor

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hawkfan68":3elxt9ep said:
There's only one stat that matters and doesn't lie.....it's wins and losses. I believe the Seahawks are doing well with that stat currently.

According to that stat, the Seahawks have seen a 6% regression this year from last. Still, it's not a bad place to be, and I'll take this year's final standings any year I can.
 

hawkfan68

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Seahawk Sailor":3l37q90i said:
hawkfan68":3l37q90i said:
There's only one stat that matters and doesn't lie.....it's wins and losses. I believe the Seahawks are doing well with that stat currently.

According to that stat, the Seahawks have seen a 6% regression this year from last. Still, it's not a bad place to be, and I'll take this year's final standings any year I can.

Very true. One could argue, using the strength of schedule stat, that the teams they faced this season were stronger than those they faced last season. It's impressive that they have been pretty consistent with wins the past 3 years - 11,13, and 12. Averaging 12 wins over the three years. Furthermore, this could be correlated to the consistency of Russell Wilson. His seasonal numbers have been consistent as well, http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson/2532975/careerstats
 

Seahawk Sailor

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hawkfan68":3d612ew0 said:
Seahawk Sailor":3d612ew0 said:
hawkfan68":3d612ew0 said:
There's only one stat that matters and doesn't lie.....it's wins and losses. I believe the Seahawks are doing well with that stat currently.

According to that stat, the Seahawks have seen a 6% regression this year from last. Still, it's not a bad place to be, and I'll take this year's final standings any year I can.

Very true. One could argue, using the strength of schedule stat, that the teams they faced this season were stronger than those they faced last season. It's impressive that they have been pretty consistent with wins the past 3 years - 11,13, and 12. Averaging 12 wins over the three years.

Yep, yep. I remember going into this year, a lot of folks were calling this schedule brutal, and a sure-fire schedule for a post-Super Bowl hangover. Even halfway through the season--hell, especially halfway through--I remember most folks were bracing for a wild card slot at best, because of the gauntlet we faced. To have come through that and end at 12-4 with the #1 seed in the NFC is amazing, even if we did drop a game more than last year.

This year's win/loss percentage may be 6% lower than last year's, but I'd really like to see some real comparisons with strength of opponents figured in. Might be about the same.
 

BlueTalons

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I read somewhere (can't find it now) that the Hawks last six games were one of the highest strength of schedule stretches to end a season in NFL history. (Wish I can find it again...)
 

SupersonicSeahawkz

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talking about stats. it is amazing to me and much sympathy to cardinals fans, but they are the oldest franchise in the league and have never in it's total history had 12 or more wins in the regular season. That makes it so great to b a great seahawks fan, that we have it twice and see no reason we won't do it next year+!
:179422:
 
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SeatownJay

SeatownJay

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SupersonicSeahawkz":36cz3xm5 said:
talking about stats. it is amazing to me and much sympathy to cardinals fans, but they are the oldest franchise in the league and have never in it's total history had 12 or more wins in the regular season. That makes it so great, that we have it twice and see no reason we won't do it next year+!
:179422:
Seattle has had 12 or more wins 4 times ('84, '05, '13, '14).
 

byau

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MidwestHawker":2ecf1nvh said:
The SB hangover thing is kind of a misleading stat in terms of predictive value, because it doesn't account for the fact that the champion usually isn't the best team in football that year and thus certainly shouldn't be expected to repeat. I would say that it may be more useful just to look at how teams fare after winning the title as a #1 seed, but even that might be borderline worthless just because of sample size issues.

Agreed, there are a lot of factors behind that stat like you mention.

But in general all stats could have some misleading elements. Because stats can be highly correlative, sometimes it takes a lot of digging to find the causation.

Our sociology prof told us one story about how these citizens for morality types were trying to get X-rated movie houses out of their city. They did a study, and found that the more X-rated movie places in a city, the more crime.

The X-rated movie houses did their own study, and showed startlingly different results: the more churches in a city, the more crime

Of course, the underlying causation was: the more population in a city, the more [churches|x-rated movie houses|crime]. Everything in brackets was correlation.

Whose to say what the actual causation is behind stats we talk about, esp. the SB hangover stats.

The good thing about stats is showing correlation: the SB winner has a history of doing very poorly the next year and not make the playoffs, or not have a playoff victory, much less win the SB. So be on guard and be prepared and you can be an exception to the stat.

(Though really, you could say from a numbers perspective 20 teams out of 32 tend to not make the playoffs next year. 31 teams out of 32 tend not to win the SB the next year. Haha now I'm being snarky)
 

Bigbadhawk

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SeatownJay":347egbh3 said:
Proof that you can use statistics to frame an argument in multiple ways. Russell Wilson set career bests this year in completions, attempts, yards, and interception percentage. He also set career lows in completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, touchdown percentage, and passer rating.

So one could use stats to argue that 2014 was both Wilson's best and worst season of his career.

Sometimes stats just aren't enough to base a complete picture on.

Stats do a great job of telling a story as long as you don't just cherry pick stats and you actually look and compare every stat.
 

HawKnPeppa

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LawlessHawk":3gljl98j said:
pehawk":3gljl98j said:
AndyDalton":3gljl98j said:
Stats tell the entire story. They're the best way to measure success

Andy dalton thumbs up

That dude's got to have the most annoyingly wussy voice in football...
That's what you have to expect when big bird gets in bed with Ginger.
 

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