Brock Huard's Chalk Talk (by Brady Henderson?)

ivotuk · Nov 19, 2014

"For all the second-guessing about Seattle's failed fourth-and-goal pass from Russell Wilson to Doug Baldwin – from the decision to throw instead of run to the questionable non-call of an interference penalty – there was one undeniable reality.

It was open.

As Brock Huard explains in this week's Chalk Talk, the Seahawks got the look they were hoping for on that play, just not the result."

http://mynorthwest.com/292/2647474/Huar ... ourth-down

FYI Brock Huard has mentioned that he would like to do a 3 hour chalk talk from the VMAC. I think if we all contacted the "Editor in Chief" in support of this idea maybe it will go through. Here's his info, email him, tweet him, whatever.

Brady Henderson
Brady Henderson is the editor in chief of 710Sports.com and also assists in the website's Seahawks coverage. Brady joined 710Sports.com in 2010 after covering high school sports for The Seattle Times. A Seattle native, he attended O'Dea High School and has a degree in journalism from Western Washington University. Follow Brady: @BradyHenderson

Scottemojo · Nov 19, 2014

I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

Anonymous · Nov 19, 2014

Scottemojo":3c0f92e7 said:
I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

We had a superb angle on the play from our seats.

I couldn't agree more. Russ waits about a 3rd of a second and ADB gets it, even after being shoved.

Question:
Have we seen Baldwin flop before? Yes, yes we have. Well, why didn't he flop then?

Argh.

pehawk · Nov 19, 2014

Scottemojo":1ojtpuw5 said:
I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

I have no qualm with the play itself. I personally don't like fades, but that's besides the point. I just prefer relying on what you KNOW your personnel can execute well. The fade or any other type of rhythm throw isn't the Seahawks this year...it just isn't.. Stop overthinking in big moments, and go with what works, and tip your cap if your get beaten. I said it another thread, this would be like GB running the ball on 3rd and 4. It doesn't match what they excel at.

Scottemojo · Nov 19, 2014

pehawk":1amf8fd3 said:
Scottemojo":1amf8fd3 said:

I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

Click to expand...

I have no qualm with the play itself. I personally don't like fades, but that's besides the point. I just prefer relying on what you KNOW your personnel can execute well. The fade or any other type of rhythm throw isn't the Seahawks this year...it just isn't.. Stop overthinking in big moments, and go with what works, and tip your cap if your get beaten. I said it another thread, this would be like GB running the ball on 3rd and 4. It doesn't match what they excel at.

Yeah, but you will get the standard answer from some, "Well, you would be calling Bevell a genius if it worked!"

For the record, Bevell's TD play to Moeki worked, and I am on record as saying it was the wrong play call, for philisophical reasons.

DavidSeven · Nov 19, 2014

I get what you guys are saying about playing to your strengths, but doesn't Brock address that point? The initial formation had trips to the left. The idea was to get Russell in space to his left and run a rub concept that would've gotten Baldwin the ball in the flat where he's scored TDs in the past.

However, KC called timeout to get Seattle out of that look. What do you do? Run a familiar concept, which Reid's staff has just coached his D on how to stop? Run the ball after the league's best goal line defense has stuffed the box?

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's other plays to call, and I don't love the odds of a fade to Baldwin, but to me, it does seem like some thought was put into this play design -- there were elements of surprise and taking what the defense was giving you. Ultimately, it was a bad throw and Baldwin got knocked off his route. Best case, I think he has a great shot at that ball or draws the PI.

pehawk · Nov 19, 2014

DavidSeven":ixsyouv7 said:
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's other plays to call, and I don't love the odds.

Win or lose, that's what I've been saying about Bevell since he got here. There's always 5-10 plays like that a game, IMO. And probably 3-5 supporters will admit too. Would we tolerate a WR running the wrong route that many times a game?

This reminds me a lot of the old Hass debates. There's a lot of lowered expectations.

DavidSeven · Nov 19, 2014

pehawk":16qc4yjd said:
DavidSeven":16qc4yjd said:

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's other plays to call, and I don't love the odds.

Click to expand...

Win or lose, that's what I've been saying about Bevell since he got here. There's always 5-10 plays like that a game, IMO. And probably 3-5 supporters will admit too. Would we tolerate a WR running the wrong route that many times a game?

This reminds me a lot of the old Hass debates. There's a lot of lowered expectations.

I can't see that as a good analogy. I imagine there are more than five bad plays called by every OC of every NFL game. I know it's lame to make the "execution" excuse, but I'm going to do it again. Sometimes the players hide a bad play by making a good play themselves. Sometimes one missed block ruins a perfectly fine concept. The OC goes from goat to GOAT if Russell throws that ball better or Doug draws the flag.

I look up and down this roster of offensive players (including the line), and I see utterly no reason why it would have any business being a top 10 offense regardless of play caller. And yet we are on the fringes of that with less help from the defense than we've had since 2010. Maybe that's all Cable or Carroll, I don't know. I really don't know if Bevell is a brilliant play caller or not. With the right personnel, I've seen him put together offenses that look like juggernauts. With substandard QB play and worse skill players, he looks worse himself. In terms of developing a Carroll-ish ball control offense that limits turnovers while still having potential for explosives and "big balls" trickery, I think he's done what's been asked. I just don't think we'll know if an alternative could do better with Russell and these skill players until that day actually comes.

SeatownJay · Nov 19, 2014

If Baldwin continues to run the route instead of giving up as soon as he feels contact, he's got a shot at the ball.

pehawk · Nov 19, 2014

I don't agree that all OC's have that many bad calls a game. There's calls I don't agree with, for sure, but they're not head-scratchers and not removed from the teams overall strengths and philosophy's. I don't recall ever seeing an OC and asking "what game is he coaching and what personnel is he coaching, because it certainly aint this one".

Again, I'd still question the call if the play had been converted. In the Packers game (IIRC) Bevell called ALOT of cute plays on or around the goalline. ALOT. The Hawks won but I was still ticked and emailed Scotte a list of the "wth was he thinking?" calls.

I've witnessed some bad OC's before. But not OC's that every week trot out calls detached from the reality of the game and circumstances.

Dude called a delayed handoff, in the endzone, on the last drive. He called a play action call which actually INCREASED the chances of a safety. Think about that one for a second. A OC made a call, with game on the line, that was play action from own endzone. A play that was DESIGNED to keep the ball in your own endzone LONGER.

He does a few of those every week. If you think that's common, I guess I've never seen it.

DavidSeven · Nov 19, 2014

I mean, it's all subjective at this point. I don't think the 4th-and-1 run by Lynch or the fade to Baldwin were egregiously bad calls, which are the ones that are being criticized the most. We can go back and forth on those plays all day, and I believe Brock has now defended both of those calls (though I won't claim he is the final authority). The refs missed PI on the fade (but it was otherwise open) and the Lynch run came down to Sweezy missing a one-on-one block. On the Lynch run in particular, I think using an FB actually gives you a worse look, especially if the FB is no threat to catch a pass. All that does is bring an extra LB to the box, takes a skinny CB off the field and gives the NFL's best short yardage defense even more push. The personnel that SEA used at least had KC spread completely flat and horizontal -- if Sweezy pushes his guy at least a foot, then Marshawn probably has the first down.

There are other plays that probably would've worked. Given our personnel and KC's defense, however, I have yet to hear of any that sound especially more enticing than what was actually called.

pehawk · Nov 19, 2014

I don't understand the thinking on the near safety play. What was the thought behind a delayed draw play, from own endzone, which purposely left the ball/QB stationary a second longer than needed, with a 4th string center, from a shotgun formation? That's a bad call anytime, but with game on the line you call a play that requires your mobile QB sit still?

All it did was increase the chance of a safety.

That's what I mean by situational awareness. In own endzone with 4th string center, in loudest stadium in the country. That's just, wow.

On 4th and 1 call, call a play that's worked. RO, bubble screen to Lynch. Not a dive play. They had 8 men to Hawks 6 blockers. Bad math.

Anthony! · Nov 20, 2014

Scottemojo":1bw4uk7h said:
I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

I have watche it to the pass was fine, Baldwin does not get it or keep sruinning and not whining it is caught. They talked about it on KJR with MIllan, Moon and MH adn they all said the same thing, He does nto get bumped he ctaches it easy, he keeps goign after the bump he still catches it. FYI Brock even says if Doug doe snot get pushed its a TD so the pass was fine.

Zebulon Dak · Nov 20, 2014

Anthony!":do2if2zh said:
Scottemojo":do2if2zh said:

I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

Click to expand...

I have watche it to the pass was fine, Baldwin does not get it or keep sruinning and not whining it is caught. They talked about it on KJR with MIllan, Moon and MH adn they all said the same thing, He does nto get bumped he ctaches it easy, he keeps goign after the bump he still catches it.

Good call, good throw, Doug gave up thinking he got the PI, he didn't. That's all.

Scottemojo · Nov 20, 2014

DavidSeven":clgswd82 said:
pehawk":clgswd82 said:

DavidSeven":clgswd82 said:

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's other plays to call, and I don't love the odds.

Click to expand...

Win or lose, that's what I've been saying about Bevell since he got here. There's always 5-10 plays like that a game, IMO. And probably 3-5 supporters will admit too. Would we tolerate a WR running the wrong route that many times a game?

This reminds me a lot of the old Hass debates. There's a lot of lowered expectations.

Click to expand...

I can't see that as a good analogy. I imagine there are more than five bad plays called by every OC of every NFL game. I know it's lame to make the "execution" excuse, but I'm going to do it again. Sometimes the players hide a bad play by making a good play themselves. Sometimes one missed block ruins a perfectly fine concept. The OC goes from goat to GOAT if Russell throws that ball better or Doug draws the flag.

I look up and down this roster of offensive players (including the line), and I see utterly no reason why it would have any business being a top 10 offense regardless of play caller. And yet we are on the fringes of that with less help from the defense than we've had since 2010. Maybe that's all Cable or Carroll, I don't know. I really don't know if Bevell is a brilliant play caller or not. With the right personnel, I've seen him put together offenses that look like juggernauts. With substandard QB play and worse skill players, he looks worse himself. In terms of developing a Carroll-ish ball control offense that limits turnovers while still having potential for explosives and "big balls" trickery, I think he's done what's been asked. I just don't think we'll know if an alternative could do better with Russell and these skill players until that day actually comes.

I strongly disagree.
This is a top ten offense on the back of the NFL's best dual threat backfield, Wilson and Lynch. It is easy to see why it is as high as it is right now. In a league built to play nickel, we force teams to defend physically and they wilt. Except when we don't, and then our offense looks like wilted lettuce.

The biggest gap we have in these discussions is the difference between bad calls and bad, or even good, results.

Scottemojo · Nov 20, 2014

Zebulon Dak":3cd4z7ho said:
Anthony!":3cd4z7ho said:

Scottemojo":3cd4z7ho said:

I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

Click to expand...

I have watche it to the pass was fine, Baldwin does not get it or keep sruinning and not whining it is caught. They talked about it on KJR with MIllan, Moon and MH adn they all said the same thing, He does nto get bumped he ctaches it easy, he keeps goign after the bump he still catches it.

Click to expand...

Good call, good throw, Doug gave up thinking he got the PI, he didn't. That's all.

Finesse call, good throw thrown too soon, Doug gave up the instant he knew he would never get to the pass. That's all.

MontanaHawk05 · Nov 20, 2014

pehawk":mb4x6fbs said:
Scottemojo":mb4x6fbs said:

I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

Click to expand...

I just prefer relying on what you KNOW your personnel can execute well. The fade or any other type of rhythm throw isn't the Seahawks this year...it just isn't.. Stop overthinking in big moments, and go with what works, and tip your cap if your get beaten. I said it another thread, this would be like GB running the ball on 3rd and 4. It doesn't match what they excel at.

But that's not just what it's about. It's about calling what's open. Football teams walk to the line with a handful of plays at their disposal, and decide on what to run based on the opposing defensive look. In this case, Kansas City showed Seattle what they wanted for the combo fade, and the execution just wasn't there. (That's how 90% of Brock's talks end, by the way - "the execution just wasn't there.")

Same with the read-option. Seattle doesn't run it JUST because they have the personnel and talent to do it - they run it because they can see that the defense isn't guarding it. If Wilson isn't keeping the read-option, it MIGHT not be because Bevell is an idiot - it might be because the opposition is consistently keeping a DE outside in containment.

Anonymous · Nov 20, 2014

Brock Huard:

A textbook example of "those that cannot do, teach".

pehawk · Nov 20, 2014

MontanaHawk05":1tw7he3d said:
pehawk":1tw7he3d said:

Scottemojo":1tw7he3d said:

I watched the play over and over, and i think Russ let it fly a tic too soon, with not quite enough air under it.

Click to expand...

I just prefer relying on what you KNOW your personnel can execute well. The fade or any other type of rhythm throw isn't the Seahawks this year...it just isn't.. Stop overthinking in big moments, and go with what works, and tip your cap if your get beaten. I said it another thread, this would be like GB running the ball on 3rd and 4. It doesn't match what they excel at.

Click to expand...

But that's not just what it's about. It's about calling what's open. Football teams walk to the line with a handful of plays at their disposal, and decide on what to run based on the opposing defensive look. In this case, Kansas City showed Seattle what they wanted for the combo fade, and the execution just wasn't there. (That's how 90% of Brock's talks end, by the way - "the execution just wasn't there.")

Same with the read-option. Seattle doesn't run it JUST because they have the personnel and talent to do it - they run it because they can see that the defense isn't guarding it. If Wilson isn't keeping the read-option, it MIGHT not be because Bevell is an idiot - it might be because the opposition is consistently keeping a DE outside in containment.

I don't think I've ever once said Wilson NOT keeping a RO run is because Bevell is an idiot. I have no idea what you're talking about there. Nor did I gloss over; you take what the defense is showing, to the contrary actually. Again, no idea what you're talking about. Is this reply in the wrong thread?

Any sort of rhythm or timing based pass hasn't worked this year for the Seahawks. I don't blame Bevell entirely, it is what it is. What I do expect is Bevell to understand the fade, or any rhythm throw, isn't something this team has been successful at this year. That, in key moments and in key plays, he keep the options to what his personnel has exceled at...this year. There's a handful of those, with some pass plays included.

I'm going to guess you posted this in the wrong thread though. I've been guilty of the same, pookie.

morgulon1 · Nov 20, 2014

What bothered me about the play call is that we conceded to the Chiefs that our strength wasn't up to their strength. I
would've liked to see that gigantor fullback and fb lead . Bevell pussed out.

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