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A tale of two quarterbacks

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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:19 pm
  • Today I saw a team that could rush the ball effectively and even though they somehow managed not to secure a single first-down on 10 3rd-down attempts, they still managed 11 first downs rushing and another 6 passing. I saw a team move the ball for over 330 net yards.

    They were facing another team - one that provided excellent pass protection for the QB. He had a heck of a good first outing, hitting some passes to very fine windows. Unfortunately he only put up 180-odd yards for all of his fantastic protection. He had fewer completions from more attempts than the other guy, who suffered most of the game with pretty average pass protection. Also unfortunately, his team couldn't run the ball effectively, which meant they couldn't control the clock very well, and ultimately lost the game to the team that could rush effectively.

    It's really flashy to see a QB hitting long passes in tight windows. It almost makes you forget the number of times he missed which, combined with a lack of an effective running game, meant stalled drives.

    As far as a team on the ascension goes, the Cardinals will be losing some of their most effective defensive players to age, along with Larry Fitzgerald. They aren't committed to running the ball. They had a good game from a QB no one has any real tape of yet, but that will change soon enough. Their receivers dropped several very catch-able passes. There is speed there, but not a great deal of depth.

    They are in serious trouble, regardless of how anything looked today.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:24 pm
  • 12thbrah wrote:I'm just mad at Russell's performance because he's on my fantasy team but really I don't care too much as long as the team keeps winning.


    Fantasy team?

    Man, we are living in reality here don't you know that?
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:36 pm
  • I was so proud of RW today. Out in front making
    Blocks for the RB. How many Qb’s in the league
    Have the balls to do that?
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:42 pm
  • Mitchell Trubisky is a game manager and he threw 6 TD passes.

    In the modern NFL, you don't have to be Peyton Manning to put up MVP numbers. Scheme, scheme, scheme.

    Carroll refuses to evolve and here we are. Think about it. Trubisky threw one fewer TD passes in one game than RW has the entire season. Be honest and ask yourself who is better. Fix the goddamn passing game.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:50 pm
  • Well, let's see how things play out for Mr Rosen after the league gets a few games of film on him.

    Not gonna crown a rookie who had some flashes in a loss.

    :229031_shrug:
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:16 pm
  • He led the league in TDs and Yards LAST YEAR.

    Remember Semiahmoo started the 'Earl is slow because his thighs are too big.'

    His hatred and bias for RW also runs deep.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:01 pm
  • Have a look at the holding the cards did. Christ alive I could have thrown for a couple of TDs with all that time. Seriously look at the td throw and watch Clark. Disgraceful.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:42 am
  • Well, the announcers had crowned him the next Joe Montana in the 1st quarter :lol:
    He did make some damn nice throws though.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:13 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, the announcers had crowned him the next Joe Montana in the 1st quarter :lol:
    He did make some damn nice throws though.


    Yes he did. The young man is a legit talent.

    Hoping he stays healthy. He'll be fun to watch.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:14 am
  • I don't like the kid, but he clearly can sling it
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:31 am
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    ....Though 0-4 now, the Cardinals feel like a team on the move.....


    Lets just let that sink in for a moment...... :lol:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:13 am
  • Rosen reminds me of a young Tom Brady...Wilson reminds me of an old Doug Flutie but slower. :stirthepot:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:20 am
  • endzorn wrote:Wilson could be a superstar with any OC who knew how to play to his strengths. Schottenheimer has turned Wilson into a stationary target in the pocket. This so called “next-level coaching” that schottenheimer was going to give RW has sapped him of the things that made him special.

    I don’t care what Wilson says, he can’t see in the pocket. He’s at his most dangerous when he’s on the move and he’s now relegated to a pocket that can hardly hold up.

    Move him. I understand keeping him in the pocket on a percentage of plays, but we should be moving him often to make sure he can see the field and make sure he has options other than taking sacks. Roll him left or right, he’s been very good either way.

    I was of the mind that we should fire Cable and give Bevell one year to see what he could do with a new OL coach. I was also of the mind that Schottenheimer is an awful OC. Nothing I have seen has even moved the meter toward Schottenheimer being remotely good.

    Sadly, I think the end of Carroll will be tied to his baffling coaching choices on offense. I love Pete, but he needs to take inventory on his coaching hires.


    CORRECT ^, One only has to see how they Coach-cater to the strengths that Drew Breese has, to see where the pitfalls lie for RW.
    To NOT use, or worse yet, ignore Russell Wilson's talents correctly, is not only stupid, it's criminal.
    He goes off script out of self preservation, and it really doesn't have to be that way.
    It's like "I Know That You're a Highly Skilled Surgeon, But All I Want You To Do While You're Here, Is Put Band-Aids On Butt Boils". :34853_doh:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:22 am
  • xray wrote:Rosen reminds me of a young Tom Brady...Wilson reminds me of an old Doug Flutie but slower. :stirthepot:

    :roll:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:27 am
  • semiahmoo wrote:Only stats that matter are playoffs/Super Bowls - and right now our Seahawks aren't looking to be picking up any of those any time soon...


    So, was Tom Brady a bad quarterback from 2005-2013 because he didn't win any Super Bowls?

    Wilson can be a great quarterback without a deep run in the playoffs. Or any run into the playoffs at all - All kinds of great quarterbacks who have done that.

    Your criteria are stupid. But then again, you know that.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:33 pm
  • He actually reminds me of Aaron Rodgers, same punchable face and the ability to wing it from almost anywhere. God I think I hate him now.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:36 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:He actually reminds me of Aaron Rodgers, same punchable face and the ability to wing it from almost anywhere. God I think I hate him now.


    Indeed, and Aaron Rodgers is viewed by many as the best QB in the business these days so my thumbs up on Rosen is 100% legit.

    Now I have to up my accuracy % to 99.763%.

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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:40 pm
  • Pretty small sample size for Rosen. Plays 4 quarters, loses, but ya lets compare him to Rodgers :lol:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:49 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:It's like "I Know That You're a Highly Skilled Surgeon, But All I Want You To Do While You're Here, Is Put Band-Aids On Butt Boils". :34853_doh:

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    It's funny because it's true.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:31 am
  • semiahmoo wrote:Russel Wilson did today what he does best - management. A couple seasons ago I accepted that he was not the great star some thought him to be. He is a QB with some talents that are already in decline (namely speed) and some deficiencies that he has yet to significantly improve upon. He needs a legit running game to take the pressure of him having to stay in the pocket and pass - that's just not his game and it never will be. My sense is the coaching staff has also come to this realization and is trying to reform the offense around that fact. The O-line has improved which is both helping Russ and whatever back happens to be running the ball but unfortunately, against tougher defenses, we'll likely be looking at some very lopsided losses. (0-10 on 3rd downs? Ooof.)

    Josh Rosen had his first NFL start at QB. His team lost - barely, but it felt like a win. The rookie has undeniable talent and there were stretches when he put on a passing display that would have stood comfortable with the likes of Brady and Rodgers. The stats don't tell the truth because of some dropped passes that most certainly should have been receptions. It was as if the Arizona receivers weren't used to someone throwing the ball with such remarkable precision.

    Though 0-4 now, the Cardinals feel like a team on the move.

    The 2-2 Seahawks feel like a team running on, and out of, the fumes of its once dominant past which was perfectly, and tragically, given a visual confirmation of that fact with Earl Thomas being carted off the field as he flipped the bird to the Seahawks sideline.

    Bummer for Seahawks fans but looking forward to seeing what kind of season Mr. Rosen ends up with. He sure was fun to watch today.


    Just checking in to see if you're still high on Rosen. Since you were so quick and willing to elevate him above Wilson after one game. Your accuracy rating is looking a little off these days.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:44 am
  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:Russel Wilson did today what he does best - management. A couple seasons ago I accepted that he was not the great star some thought him to be. He is a QB with some talents that are already in decline (namely speed) and some deficiencies that he has yet to significantly improve upon. He needs a legit running game to take the pressure of him having to stay in the pocket and pass - that's just not his game and it never will be. My sense is the coaching staff has also come to this realization and is trying to reform the offense around that fact. The O-line has improved which is both helping Russ and whatever back happens to be running the ball but unfortunately, against tougher defenses, we'll likely be looking at some very lopsided losses. (0-10 on 3rd downs? Ooof.)

    Josh Rosen had his first NFL start at QB. His team lost - barely, but it felt like a win. The rookie has undeniable talent and there were stretches when he put on a passing display that would have stood comfortable with the likes of Brady and Rodgers. The stats don't tell the truth because of some dropped passes that most certainly should have been receptions. It was as if the Arizona receivers weren't used to someone throwing the ball with such remarkable precision.

    Though 0-4 now, the Cardinals feel like a team on the move.

    The 2-2 Seahawks feel like a team running on, and out of, the fumes of its once dominant past which was perfectly, and tragically, given a visual confirmation of that fact with Earl Thomas being carted off the field as he flipped the bird to the Seahawks sideline.

    Bummer for Seahawks fans but looking forward to seeing what kind of season Mr. Rosen ends up with. He sure was fun to watch today.


    Just checking in to see if you're still high on Rosen. Since you were so quick and willing to elevate him above Wilson after one game. Your accuracy rating is looking a little off these days.


    I wonder how much fun he had watching that debacle last night. The Cards are definitely a team on the move, straight to the sh*tter bwaaaaahaaaaahaaaaaa

    Good Lord
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:06 pm
  • xray wrote:Rosen reminds me of a young Tom Brady...Wilson reminds me of an old Doug Flutie but slower. :stirthepot:


    Rosen reminds me of a young Rick Mirer
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:36 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    xray wrote:Rosen reminds me of a young Tom Brady...Wilson reminds me of an old Doug Flutie but slower. :stirthepot:


    Rosen reminds me of a young Rick Mirer



    Haha maybe a young Dan McGwire as well.

    Rosen is trash. I have never, EVER understood the Rosen love. As a Pac 12 fan who watched quite of few of his games in person at the Rose Bowl, I saw a guy with a plus arm but thats about it. Cocky, arrogant, yet with no leadership qualities to speak of. Rarely if ever stepped up in big moments to lead UCLA when it mattered.

    Cards fans who live in Pac 12 country should have known better than to get excited for this guy. I of course was thrilled by the pick and not at all surprised when he threw a temper tantrum at being picked where he was.

    Complete loser. Glad hes not our problem.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:47 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:He actually reminds me of Aaron Rodgers, same punchable face and the ability to wing it from almost anywhere. God I think I hate him now.


    Indeed, and Aaron Rodgers is viewed by many as the best QB in the business these days so my thumbs up on Rosen is 100% legit.

    Now I have to correct my accuracy % to 9.763%.

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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:05 pm
  • My man Shampoo got killed on this one. It was a stupid take the day you posted it and it gets dumber every day. You are going to have to delete your account because of this one.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:53 pm
  • Yeah the Rosen thing wasn't his best scouting ..Rookies are a trap that many fall into
    Look no further than Rick Mirer.
    As for RW he is a game manager now and doing pretty well with it.I was shocked to
    see him use the pocket and step up into it.As he does this it will open up more
    of the offense.The days of sandlot king are ending and 2015 was years ago now
    he cannot run like he did back then to repeat that year anyway.He is older and
    getting slower.You look at AR and Cam..They don't run like they used to either
    because the body cannot keep taking those hits@QB.I know change isn't
    fun but it's reality in everything.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:38 pm
  • Um Yea.....I certainly hope that RW was watching Rosen's mastery on the gridiron last night. :laugh:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:30 pm
  • sdog1981 wrote:My man Shampoo got killed on this one. It was a stupid take the day you posted it and it gets dumber every day. You are going to have to delete your account because of this one.


    People like that don't know when to throw in the towel. They usually just double down on the stupid
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:21 pm
  • Would be nice to necro bump this thread along with fire pete thread every year.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:02 am
  • This thread is concerning IMO. While I can understand and respect the OP’s position, I’m having a hard time agreeing with this assessment. Wilson is an outstanding athlete who in fact is a very good Quarterback. No, I have not seen him as “elite” as they say, but then again I have. To clarify, when the LOB was in full force, and Beast Mode was around, Russel Wilson played a bunch of games at an “eliete” level. He has never had an amazing OLine, and I believe that’s partly due to the Brass of Seattle seeing that they could use money and picks elsewhere because of Wilson’s ability; now that particular aspect has come back to haunt them, but, it’s getting better by the week it seems. Wilson hasn’t put up as many of the “eliete” performances over the past 16 games dating back to last season, but let’s be honest, Brady is a once in a lifetime QB, a guy who elevates the level of play of guys around him. He also plays for a once in a lifetime coach, who constantly puts his players in a position of success. Wilson and Pete are not this, but they have had many, many moments like this.

    Don’t discount or discredit the greatness of Wilson or Pete. Credit Bill and Brrady, and realize that the NFL cycles with success but with the outlier of the Patriots. I hate the Patriots, but I don’t have blinders on when it comes to arguably, “the best to ever do it”.

    Seattle is in a much better position than the Cardinals, and as much as I hate Seattle, y’all rebuild won’t be very long if things remain how they are but are changed into a modified identity. Wilson has a good few years left, he has another run, these next two drafts and FA periods are critical for that run.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:08 am
  • JRobinson wrote:This thread is concerning IMO. While I can understand and respect the OP’s position, I’m having a hard time agreeing with this assessment. Wilson is an outstanding athlete who in fact is a very good Quarterback. No, I have not seen him as “elite” as they say, but then again I have. To clarify, when the LOB was in full force, and Beast Mode was around, Russel Wilson played a bunch of games at an “eliete” level. He has never had an amazing OLine, and I believe that’s partly due to the Brass of Seattle seeing that they could use money and picks elsewhere because of Wilson’s ability; now that particular aspect has come back to haunt them, but, it’s getting better by the week it seems. Wilson hasn’t put up as many of the “eliete” performances over the past 16 games dating back to last season, but let’s be honest, Brady is a once in a lifetime QB, a guy who elevates the level of play of guys around him. He also plays for a once in a lifetime coach, who constantly puts his players in a position of success. Wilson and Pete are not this, but they have had many, many moments like this.

    Don’t discount or discredit the greatness of Wilson or Pete. Credit Bill and Brrady, and realize that the NFL cycles with success but with the outlier of the Patriots. I hate the Patriots, but I don’t have blinders on when it comes to arguably, “the best to ever do it”.

    Seattle is in a much better position than the Cardinals, and as much as I hate Seattle, y’all rebuild won’t be very long if things remain how they are but are changed into a modified identity. Wilson has a good few years left, he has another run, these next two drafts and FA periods are critical for that run.


    Brady is a great QB, but even when he hasn't started Belichick coaches his replacements to play top notch football. Brady is talented and well coached. As far as raw talent and football IQ, he will never be on Peyton Mannings level.

    RW is spectacular in the system he plays in as well. He had no offensive line last year and still threw more TD passes than anyone in the league. He takes what he's given and turns it into gold. Brady would have been killed behind a Tom Cable O-Line, It all depends on what the system needs to get out of a QB.

    If you put any of the top tier QBs in New Englands system, they would look like Brady.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:53 am
  • I haven't seen the OP in this thread for a while.
    You say you are a fan since the 70's. That is hard to believe. If so, you have seen the really bad years when a 9-7 record would be a huge accomplishment.
    My personal experience with aging is most gain wisdom and patience. You appear to exhibit none of those 2 traits.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:22 pm
  • Anyone who compares Rosen to Wilson is an idiot.

    Rosen has a long ways to go before he can make any claim to being spoken of in the same sentence as Russel Wilson.

    Geez, who would even fall for such a comparison?

    Crazy...
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:49 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:Anyone who compares Rosen to Wilson is an idiot.

    Rosen has a long ways to go before he can make any claim to being spoken of in the same sentence as Russel Wilson.

    Geez, who would even fall for such a comparison?

    Crazy...



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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:44 pm
  • sdog1981 wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:Anyone who compares Rosen to Wilson is an idiot.

    Rosen has a long ways to go before he can make any claim to being spoken of in the same sentence as Russel Wilson.

    Geez, who would even fall for such a comparison?

    Crazy...



    My man Shampoo


    :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:27 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    Indeed, and Aaron Rodgers is viewed by many as the best QB in the business these days so my thumbs up on Rosen is 100% legit.

    Now I have to up my accuracy % to 99.763%.

    GO HAWKS!

    It was YOUR "COMPARRISONS" of Rosen to Rodgers.
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:11 am
  • ""I'm always willing to teach those willing to learn..."" per Semiahmoo.

    = Pure Arrogance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What qualifies you as a "teacher for those willing to learn"? Seems like Semiahmoo feels he is so smart & we are all dumb as hell so I have to wonder if he is a Seahawk fan or a planted sleeper troll. We all have opinions, but to imply that the only one that counts is "Semiahmoo's opinion" is the height of arrogance. I'm 75 year old and way beyond being told what to think or do, not to mention, being taught straight up bull shit from a wanna be "expert on QB performance". Maybe y'all should try looking through a more positive lens instead of the negative crap being posted here, it's a lot more fun for a true Seahawks fan (which Semiahmoo is obviously NOT). May I suggest you go to an Arizona blog for all of your future posts? The Cardinals fans need your BS negative input, the Seahawks fans don't.

    :smilingalien:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:35 pm
  • CamanoIslandJQ wrote:""I'm always willing to teach those willing to learn..."" per Semiahmoo.

    = Pure Arrogance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What qualifies you as a "teacher for those willing to learn"? Seems like Semiahmoo feels he is so smart & we are all dumb as hell so I have to wonder if he is a Seahawk fan or a planted sleeper troll. We all have opinions, but to imply that the only one that counts is "Semiahmoo's opinion" is the height of arrogance. I'm 75 year old and way beyond being told what to think or do, not to mention, being taught straight up bull shit from a wanna be "expert on QB performance". Maybe y'all should try looking through a more positive lens instead of the negative crap being posted here, it's a lot more fun for a true Seahawks fan (which Semiahmoo is obviously NOT). May I suggest you go to an Arizona blog for all of your future posts? The Cardinals fans need your BS negative input, the Seahawks fans don't.

    :smilingalien:


    Yes!!!!!

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:36 pm
  • CamanoIslandJQ wrote:""I'm always willing to teach those willing to learn..."" per Semiahmoo.

    = Pure Arrogance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What qualifies you as a "teacher for those willing to learn"? Seems like Semiahmoo feels he is so smart & we are all dumb as hell so I have to wonder if he is a Seahawk fan or a planted sleeper troll. We all have opinions, but to imply that the only one that counts is "Semiahmoo's opinion" is the height of arrogance. I'm 75 year old and way beyond being told what to think or do, not to mention, being taught straight up bull shit from a wanna be "expert on QB performance". Maybe y'all should try looking through a more positive lens instead of the negative crap being posted here, it's a lot more fun for a true Seahawks fan (which Semiahmoo is obviously NOT). May I suggest you go to an Arizona blog for all of your future posts? The Cardinals fans need your BS negative input, the Seahawks fans don't.

    :smilingalien:

    Forget it CamanoislandJQ, You can teach a monkey to ride a bicycle, but you ain't going to teach that monkey how to build one. :curious:
    scutterhawk
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Re: A tale of two quarterbacks
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:44 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    JRobinson wrote:This thread is concerning IMO. While I can understand and respect the OP’s position, I’m having a hard time agreeing with this assessment. Wilson is an outstanding athlete who in fact is a very good Quarterback. No, I have not seen him as “elite” as they say, but then again I have. To clarify, when the LOB was in full force, and Beast Mode was around, Russel Wilson played a bunch of games at an “eliete” level. He has never had an amazing OLine, and I believe that’s partly due to the Brass of Seattle seeing that they could use money and picks elsewhere because of Wilson’s ability; now that particular aspect has come back to haunt them, but, it’s getting better by the week it seems. Wilson hasn’t put up as many of the “eliete” performances over the past 16 games dating back to last season, but let’s be honest, Brady is a once in a lifetime QB, a guy who elevates the level of play of guys around him. He also plays for a once in a lifetime coach, who constantly puts his players in a position of success. Wilson and Pete are not this, but they have had many, many moments like this.

    Don’t discount or discredit the greatness of Wilson or Pete. Credit Bill and Brrady, and realize that the NFL cycles with success but with the outlier of the Patriots. I hate the Patriots, but I don’t have blinders on when it comes to arguably, “the best to ever do it”.

    Seattle is in a much better position than the Cardinals, and as much as I hate Seattle, y’all rebuild won’t be very long if things remain how they are but are changed into a modified identity. Wilson has a good few years left, he has another run, these next two drafts and FA periods are critical for that run.


    Brady is a great QB, but even when he hasn't started Belichick coaches his replacements to play top notch football. Brady is talented and well coached. As far as raw talent and football IQ, he will never be on Peyton Mannings level.

    RW is spectacular in the system he plays in as well. He had no offensive line last year and still threw more TD passes than anyone in the league. He takes what he's given and turns it into gold. Brady would have been killed behind a Tom Cable O-Line, It all depends on what the system needs to get out of a QB.

    If you put any of the top tier QBs in New Englands system, they would look like Brady.


    I agree, I enjoy watching Brady play, and he is one of the top 10 for sure to ever play QB in this league. He just is not as good as others. The game has changed so much, it is hard to compare him with Montana, Marino, Fouts or even Elway. For one, the QB's of this era are protected from hits. The receivers are free to roam, now with little to fear from "earhole shots" after catches over the middle.

    I find this need to identify the G O A T tiresome. Just enjoy what you are watching now, and know it will change, it has changed, just as tastes in the type of play changed.
    jeremiah
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