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Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:56 pm
  • So we all know, RW is known for his play action / scrambling ability to extend plays, with some great results in the past. I know the current OC wants RW to stay in the pocket and become that kind of QB. But watching the game today there were several times he could have scrambled for big gains and instead just would throw to a receiver that was most likely in the play call, and several times for a minimum gain (if any) compared to the open field RW had in front of him. I wish he had the option of doing that again, it appears the coaching staff after all this time still does not allow RW to call something other than the play called by the OC.


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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:01 pm
  • "after all this time"? 2 games under Schotty is "after all this time"?

    Wilson is a brilliant scrambler, and we can use that to our advantage with designed roll-outs and such. But when he does his peel-back move, he turns his back on all his targets and gives up 5-10 yards of real estate. The coaches want to change that by having him step up, so he can keep eyes on his targets and if he is sacked, it's not a 22-yard loss.

    They will learn to trust Wilson more, but right now they want to get the flaws out of Wilson's game first.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:02 pm
  • They are trying to make him progress thru his reads and make good decisions instead of bailing to his go to survival skills. With good protection it will be a benefit for the team and Russell, he will take less hits as he gets the ball out faster with quicker reads and decisions, as he grows it could be painful some game days. At some point they will let him play when he has confidence in his skills at doing both.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:04 pm
  • Agree with the OP. Wish he would be encouraged to run more for positives gains when he doesn’t immediately find an open receiver. His scrambling is incredibly difficult to scheme against and usually breaks the will of the defense when he shows a determination to run.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:08 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:Agree with the OP. Wish he would be encouraged to run more for positives gains when he doesn’t immediately find an open receiver. His scrambling is incredibly difficult to scheme against and usually breaks the will of the defense when he shows a determination to run.

    Except they have to rebuild him in a few ways, making him read forces him to find a different skill set to improve, read and process faster and get the ball out faster, if you want Brees type numbers you need Brees type reactions.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:11 pm
  • Except when he tears a knee, busts a rib, gets a stinger. Throw the ball.

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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:46 pm
  • And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:21 pm
  • sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:37 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:09 am
  • hawkpride wrote:So we all know, RW is known for his play action / scrambling ability to extend plays, with some great results in the past. I know the current OC wants RW to stay in the pocket and become that kind of QB. But watching the game today there were several times he could have scrambled for big gains and instead just would throw to a receiver that was most likely in the play call, and several times for a minimum gain (if any) compared to the open field RW had in front of him. I wish he had the option of doing that again, it appears the coaching staff after all this time still does not allow RW to call something other than the play called by the OC.


    Thoughts

    Russell Wilson showed up on the injury report with a hamstring issue. When he DID try taking off he looked pretty slow.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:33 am
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.

    Russell Wilson has a lot of weaknesses as a passer. Right now Schottenheimer is trying to hammer some of those out of him. If I had to pin down his weaknesses, the first would be his footwork in the pocket. This is something Schottenheimer even mentioned, and what he has been working on with Russ all offseason long. Footwork is very important for a QB, it is a vital skill set that affects a QB's ball placement and power. If a QB doesn't have proper footwork you see errant balls, and things such as over throws and under throws, both of which we have seen from Wilson when he has been confined to the pocket. His ball placement can be suspect at times as well, which this directly relates to footwork.

    The second problem I've been seeing is lack of awareness in the pocket. He doesn't seem to have that same internal clock that most Quarterbacks possess. A good example of this is last week. The bears were bringing obvious blitzes, and Wilson wasn't aware when the corners were bearing down on him. The thing about Wilson is before he would just be able to scramble out of situations like that and make them pay for having one less man in coverage. The thing I've been noticing about his scramble lately, is that teams are starting to get a good idea of where he is going to go to, and where he is going to be. They're coming at him with a controlled rush and just collapsing the pocket rather than trying to jail break him. This forces him to beat teams from the pocket. It's always how teams like the Rams have had our number.

    Now, that being said Russell has shown some improvement this game in these areas. Schottenheimer called a quick hit passing game. Russell didn't try to do anything cute, and he executed it. He checked down when he needed to and he had a better grasp of when people were bearing down on him. It was the first glimpse we've gotten of his work in the offseason. One play really stuck out to me. He was in the pocket, and the Seahawks had run a play action from under center. The defensive ends were closing in on him, in the past he would have retreated back into the open field and played a game of matador. Instead he simply stepped up into the pocket, and made a slick slide to set up his blockers and delivered a bullet with a guy in his face. It was the best throw Russ made all game, and it hit Lockett in stride and when he wasn't necessarily open. He was thrown open by Russell.

    The significance of this routine play was how fluid Russ looked in that moment. He looked like Tom Brady manipulating the pocket. There was no wasted movement, everything was smooth. He simply stepped up and messed up the defensive ends pursuit angles. THIS is the kind of play you need if you want consistency from quarter to quarter, game to game. It is an element that was missing in Russ's game. If Schottenheimer is able to unlock his potential as a pure pocket passer and merge it with his scrambling abilities then we have another Steve Young on our hands.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:43 am
  • I had noticed the distinct lack of designed QB runs yesterday, but I guess Ds need to fear our run game a bit more for that to be really effective.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:15 am
  • Spin Doctor"][quote="Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.

    Russell Wilson has a lot of weaknesses as a passer. Right now Schottenheimer is trying to hammer some of those out of him. If I had to pin down his weaknesses, the first would be his footwork in the pocket. This is something Schottenheimer even mentioned, and what he has been working on with Russ all offseason long. Footwork is very important for a QB, it is a vital skill set that affects a QB's ball placement and power. If a QB doesn't have proper footwork you see errant balls, and things such as over throws and under throws, both of which we have seen from Wilson when he has been confined to the pocket. His ball placement can be suspect at times as well, which this directly relates to footwork.

    The second problem I've been seeing is lack of awareness in the pocket. He doesn't seem to have that same internal clock that most Quarterbacks possess. A good example of this is last week. The bears were bringing obvious blitzes, and Wilson wasn't aware when the corners were bearing down on him. The thing about Wilson is before he would just be able to scramble out of situations like that and make them pay for having one less man in coverage. The thing I've been noticing about his scramble lately, is that teams are starting to get a good idea of where he is going to go to, and where he is going to be. They're coming at him with a controlled rush and just collapsing the pocket rather than trying to jail break him. This forces him to beat teams from the pocket. It's always how teams like the Rams have had our number.

    Now, that being said Russell has shown some improvement this game in these areas. Schottenheimer called a quick hit passing game. Russell didn't try to do anything cute, and he executed it. He checked down when he needed to and he had a better grasp of when people were bearing down on him. It was the first glimpse we've gotten of his work in the offseason. One play really stuck out to me. He was in the pocket, and the Seahawks had run a play action from under center. The defensive ends were closing in on him, in the past he would have retreated back into the open field and played a game of matador. Instead he simply stepped up into the pocket, and made a slick slide to set up his blockers and delivered a bullet with a guy in his face. It was the best throw Russ made all game, and it hit Lockett in stride and when he wasn't necessarily open. He was thrown open by Russell.

    The significance of this routine play was how fluid Russ looked in that moment. He looked like Tom Brady manipulating the pocket. There was no wasted movement, everything was smooth. He simply stepped up and messed up the defensive ends pursuit angles. THIS is the kind of play you need if you want consistency from quarter to quarter, game to game. It is an element that was missing in Russ's game. If Schottenheimer is able to unlock his potential as a pure pocket passer and merge it with his scrambling abilities then we have another Steve Young on our hands.[/quote]
    :2thumbs: Good post Spin,it covers most of what we all have been trying to say in a nut shell.
    I hope he gets better at it in every game foward.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:30 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Agree with the OP. Wish he would be encouraged to run more for positives gains when he doesn’t immediately find an open receiver. His scrambling is incredibly difficult to scheme against and usually breaks the will of the defense when he shows a determination to run.

    Except they have to rebuild him in a few ways, making him read forces him to find a different skill set to improve, read and process faster and get the ball out faster, if you want Brees type numbers you need Brees type reactions.


    I just couldn't disagree more.

    Why force a square peg into a round hole?

    Our offense consistently struggles against strong defenses usually until about the fourth quarter. And what we see Russ do consistently in those late drives is open up the backfield and create space, NOT camp out in and climb up the pocket for his throws a la brees.

    I don't want brees type numbers, i want more than 1 super bowl. I want to feed our nuances, not repress them into a glass case we only break in case of emergency.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:40 am
  • sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.


    I disagree to an extent. I'm with OP in a way in that it looks like we are scheming away from 'mobile Russ', which allows the defense to counter as you describe.

    There are ways to unleash mobile Russ though to counter. It does require us to have a running game via the running back though, so hopefully yesterday was more the norm than the anomaly.

    So i guess my answer to OP is that i agree with you, but the problem isn't NFL defenses are somehow locking us down now. It's that with a non existent run game, it has been too easy for a couple years now to account for Russ. With a red hot Carson, you can expect mobile Russ to resurface. And i hope schott feeds that.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:15 am
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    If 2017 is what Wilson looks like when "fully exposed", I'll take it all day. Though preferably with a running game.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:29 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.

    Russell Wilson has a lot of weaknesses as a passer. Right now Schottenheimer is trying to hammer some of those out of him. If I had to pin down his weaknesses, the first would be his footwork in the pocket. This is something Schottenheimer even mentioned, and what he has been working on with Russ all offseason long. Footwork is very important for a QB, it is a vital skill set that affects a QB's ball placement and power. If a QB doesn't have proper footwork you see errant balls, and things such as over throws and under throws, both of which we have seen from Wilson when he has been confined to the pocket. His ball placement can be suspect at times as well, which this directly relates to footwork.

    The second problem I've been seeing is lack of awareness in the pocket. He doesn't seem to have that same internal clock that most Quarterbacks possess. A good example of this is last week. The bears were bringing obvious blitzes, and Wilson wasn't aware when the corners were bearing down on him. The thing about Wilson is before he would just be able to scramble out of situations like that and make them pay for having one less man in coverage. The thing I've been noticing about his scramble lately, is that teams are starting to get a good idea of where he is going to go to, and where he is going to be. They're coming at him with a controlled rush and just collapsing the pocket rather than trying to jail break him. This forces him to beat teams from the pocket. It's always how teams like the Rams have had our number.

    Now, that being said Russell has shown some improvement this game in these areas. Schottenheimer called a quick hit passing game. Russell didn't try to do anything cute, and he executed it. He checked down when he needed to and he had a better grasp of when people were bearing down on him. It was the first glimpse we've gotten of his work in the offseason. One play really stuck out to me. He was in the pocket, and the Seahawks had run a play action from under center. The defensive ends were closing in on him, in the past he would have retreated back into the open field and played a game of matador. Instead he simply stepped up into the pocket, and made a slick slide to set up his blockers and delivered a bullet with a guy in his face. It was the best throw Russ made all game, and it hit Lockett in stride and when he wasn't necessarily open. He was thrown open by Russell.

    The significance of this routine play was how fluid Russ looked in that moment. He looked like Tom Brady manipulating the pocket. There was no wasted movement, everything was smooth. He simply stepped up and messed up the defensive ends pursuit angles. THIS is the kind of play you need if you want consistency from quarter to quarter, game to game. It is an element that was missing in Russ's game. If Schottenheimer is able to unlock his potential as a pure pocket passer and merge it with his scrambling abilities then we have another Steve Young on our hands.


    So basically he's short, has poor footwork and occasionally holds the ball too long. 3 weaknesses counts as many. I would say 3 counts as a few. And I'd argue that his footwork isn't as bad as you say it is. It's not as good as some QB's but it's hardly the worst in the league. But you can always get better right?

    BTW God's perfect QB just threw for 133 yds 1 TD 1 INT against what many considered the worst team in the league this year. Shall we point out Brady's "many" weaknesses today.

    Perfection is unattainable. Being human shouldn't be viewed as weaknesses. I don't think anyone other than NFL QB's have a clue how hard the job is and that expecting perfect footwork and pocket presence on every play when 300 lb men are set on screwing up your life big time is a ridiculously high standard.

    Wilson will struggle at times when he's pressured and no one it open and will look great when he's got time and open receivers. Same as many QB's in the league. If you gave Wilson Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce and that Chiefs line, he'd look every bit as good as Mahomes.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:19 am
  • Optimus25 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Agree with the OP. Wish he would be encouraged to run more for positives gains when he doesn’t immediately find an open receiver. His scrambling is incredibly difficult to scheme against and usually breaks the will of the defense when he shows a determination to run.

    Except they have to rebuild him in a few ways, making him read forces him to find a different skill set to improve, read and process faster and get the ball out faster, if you want Brees type numbers you need Brees type reactions.


    I just couldn't disagree more.

    Why force a square peg into a round hole?

    Our offense consistently struggles against strong defenses usually until about the fourth quarter. And what we see Russ do consistently in those late drives is open up the backfield and create space, NOT camp out in and climb up the pocket for his throws a la brees.

    I don't want brees type numbers, i want more than 1 super bowl. I want to feed our nuances, not repress them into a glass case we only break in case of emergency.


    In case you didn't notice defenses were going to where he drops back and rolls out and tagging him hard, it was no longer a surprise, that cut's off his escape path, he has to learn to climb the pocket and get the ball out or he is predictable and then injured and then out of the league and no 2nd Super Bowl win.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 am
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:

    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.

    Russell Wilson has a lot of weaknesses as a passer. Right now Schottenheimer is trying to hammer some of those out of him. If I had to pin down his weaknesses, the first would be his footwork in the pocket. This is something Schottenheimer even mentioned, and what he has been working on with Russ all offseason long. Footwork is very important for a QB, it is a vital skill set that affects a QB's ball placement and power. If a QB doesn't have proper footwork you see errant balls, and things such as over throws and under throws, both of which we have seen from Wilson when he has been confined to the pocket. His ball placement can be suspect at times as well, which this directly relates to footwork.

    The second problem I've been seeing is lack of awareness in the pocket. He doesn't seem to have that same internal clock that most Quarterbacks possess. A good example of this is last week. The bears were bringing obvious blitzes, and Wilson wasn't aware when the corners were bearing down on him. The thing about Wilson is before he would just be able to scramble out of situations like that and make them pay for having one less man in coverage. The thing I've been noticing about his scramble lately, is that teams are starting to get a good idea of where he is going to go to, and where he is going to be. They're coming at him with a controlled rush and just collapsing the pocket rather than trying to jail break him. This forces him to beat teams from the pocket. It's always how teams like the Rams have had our number.

    Now, that being said Russell has shown some improvement this game in these areas. Schottenheimer called a quick hit passing game. Russell didn't try to do anything cute, and he executed it. He checked down when he needed to and he had a better grasp of when people were bearing down on him. It was the first glimpse we've gotten of his work in the offseason. One play really stuck out to me. He was in the pocket, and the Seahawks had run a play action from under center. The defensive ends were closing in on him, in the past he would have retreated back into the open field and played a game of matador. Instead he simply stepped up into the pocket, and made a slick slide to set up his blockers and delivered a bullet with a guy in his face. It was the best throw Russ made all game, and it hit Lockett in stride and when he wasn't necessarily open. He was thrown open by Russell.

    The significance of this routine play was how fluid Russ looked in that moment. He looked like Tom Brady manipulating the pocket. There was no wasted movement, everything was smooth. He simply stepped up and messed up the defensive ends pursuit angles. THIS is the kind of play you need if you want consistency from quarter to quarter, game to game. It is an element that was missing in Russ's game. If Schottenheimer is able to unlock his potential as a pure pocket passer and merge it with his scrambling abilities then we have another Steve Young on our hands.


    So basically he's short, has poor footwork and occasionally holds the ball too long. 3 weaknesses counts as many. I would say 3 counts as a few. And I'd argue that his footwork isn't as bad as you say it is. It's not as good as some QB's but it's hardly the worst in the league. But you can always get better right?

    BTW God's perfect QB just threw for 133 yds 1 TD 1 INT against what many considered the worst team in the league this year. Shall we point out Brady's "many" weaknesses today.

    Perfection is unattainable. Being human shouldn't be viewed as weaknesses. I don't think anyone other than NFL QB's have a clue how hard the job is and that expecting perfect footwork and pocket presence on every play when 300 lb men are set on screwing up your life big time is a ridiculously high standard.

    Wilson will struggle at times when he's pressured and no one it open and will look great when he's got time and open receivers. Same as many QB's in the league. If you gave Wilson Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce and that Chiefs line, he'd look every bit as good as Mahomes.

    Poor footwork can completely derail a Quarterbacks game. You're underestimating how vital it is to a Quarterback. Schottenheimer came in, and on the first day he said he wanted to work on Wilson's footwork. It is a problem that needs to be fixed. You know those easy passes that Wilson misses every game? He usually will overthrow his players or put the ball in weird places. You know what that is a result of? Poor footwork and lack of follow through. Holding the ball for two long is also a major issue. You saw how differently the offensive line looked last game, much of that was due to Wilson getting rid of the ball quickly and accurately assessing when he had to get rid of it. Many of Wilson's sacks were on Wilson himself (and many of them have always been on Russ). Refer back to my human pinata post video. Yesterday Wilson looked great with quick hits to move the chains and timing when he had to get rid of the ball.

    I also mentioned his ball placement (ties in to footwork) and his lack of pocket awareness and ability to manipulate the pocket. If he masters these abilities he will be more consistent and deadly as a Quarterback. I don't understand why you're jumping down my throat. Wilson has struggled with all of the above. That still doesn't mean he is a bad QB given his unique talents. Even so he is working on those, and finally getting the guidance he needs to ascend to the next level.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:45 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.

    Russell Wilson has a lot of weaknesses as a passer. Right now Schottenheimer is trying to hammer some of those out of him. If I had to pin down his weaknesses, the first would be his footwork in the pocket. This is something Schottenheimer even mentioned, and what he has been working on with Russ all offseason long. Footwork is very important for a QB, it is a vital skill set that affects a QB's ball placement and power. If a QB doesn't have proper footwork you see errant balls, and things such as over throws and under throws, both of which we have seen from Wilson when he has been confined to the pocket. His ball placement can be suspect at times as well, which this directly relates to footwork.

    The second problem I've been seeing is lack of awareness in the pocket. He doesn't seem to have that same internal clock that most Quarterbacks possess. A good example of this is last week. The bears were bringing obvious blitzes, and Wilson wasn't aware when the corners were bearing down on him. The thing about Wilson is before he would just be able to scramble out of situations like that and make them pay for having one less man in coverage. The thing I've been noticing about his scramble lately, is that teams are starting to get a good idea of where he is going to go to, and where he is going to be. They're coming at him with a controlled rush and just collapsing the pocket rather than trying to jail break him. This forces him to beat teams from the pocket. It's always how teams like the Rams have had our number.

    Now, that being said Russell has shown some improvement this game in these areas. Schottenheimer called a quick hit passing game. Russell didn't try to do anything cute, and he executed it. He checked down when he needed to and he had a better grasp of when people were bearing down on him. It was the first glimpse we've gotten of his work in the offseason. One play really stuck out to me. He was in the pocket, and the Seahawks had run a play action from under center. The defensive ends were closing in on him, in the past he would have retreated back into the open field and played a game of matador. Instead he simply stepped up into the pocket, and made a slick slide to set up his blockers and delivered a bullet with a guy in his face. It was the best throw Russ made all game, and it hit Lockett in stride and when he wasn't necessarily open. He was thrown open by Russell.

    The significance of this routine play was how fluid Russ looked in that moment. He looked like Tom Brady manipulating the pocket. There was no wasted movement, everything was smooth. He simply stepped up and messed up the defensive ends pursuit angles. THIS is the kind of play you need if you want consistency from quarter to quarter, game to game. It is an element that was missing in Russ's game. If Schottenheimer is able to unlock his potential as a pure pocket passer and merge it with his scrambling abilities then we have another Steve Young on our hands.


    So basically he's short, has poor footwork and occasionally holds the ball too long. 3 weaknesses counts as many. I would say 3 counts as a few. And I'd argue that his footwork isn't as bad as you say it is. It's not as good as some QB's but it's hardly the worst in the league. But you can always get better right?

    BTW God's perfect QB just threw for 133 yds 1 TD 1 INT against what many considered the worst team in the league this year. Shall we point out Brady's "many" weaknesses today.

    Perfection is unattainable. Being human shouldn't be viewed as weaknesses. I don't think anyone other than NFL QB's have a clue how hard the job is and that expecting perfect footwork and pocket presence on every play when 300 lb men are set on screwing up your life big time is a ridiculously high standard.

    Wilson will struggle at times when he's pressured and no one it open and will look great when he's got time and open receivers. Same as many QB's in the league. If you gave Wilson Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce and that Chiefs line, he'd look every bit as good as Mahomes.

    Poor footwork can completely derail a Quarterbacks game. You're underestimating how vital it is to a Quarterback. Schottenheimer came in, and on the first day he said he wanted to work on Wilson's footwork. It is a problem that needs to be fixed. You know those easy passes that Wilson misses every game? He usually will overthrow his players or put the ball in weird places. You know what that is a result of? Poor footwork and lack of follow through. Holding the ball for two long is also a major issue. You saw how differently the offensive line looked last game, much of that was due to Wilson getting rid of the ball quickly and accurately assessing when he had to get rid of it. Many of Wilson's sacks were on Wilson himself (and many of them have always been on Russ). Refer back to my human pinata post video. Yesterday Wilson looked great with quick hits to move the chains and timing when he had to get rid of the ball.

    I also mentioned his ball placement (ties in to footwork) and his lack of pocket awareness and ability to manipulate the pocket. If he masters these abilities he will be more consistent and deadly as a Quarterback. I don't understand why you're jumping down my throat. Wilson has struggled with all of the above. That still doesn't mean he is a bad QB given his unique talents. Even so he is working on those, and finally getting the guidance he needs to ascend to the next level.


    You mean the easy passes that every QB misses from time to time. If you want to pull out QB's with terrible footwork, go watch Cam Newton sometime. Or maybe the other QB from yesterday's game. Wilson's footwork is merely average and his misses are less than a lot of QB's out there. If you don't compress him up the middle he's typically fine.

    And I'm jumping down your throat because you specifically called out our QB as having "many" weaknesses as a casual remark as if it was fact. And its not. He's a top 10 QB, maybe top 5. He does a lot of little things that fans don't even recognize that help us win games. And we have to rag on him for every negative play as if no other QB has negative plays.

    He put two beautiful passes into the breadbasket of his receivers yesterday that a lot of QB's would miss. Wilson is fine. And is now the winningest QB in franchise history (regular season and playoffs). Do Green Bay fans rip apart Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers like Seahawks fans tear into Wilson? Favre missed open guys on easy passes and Rodgers frequently holds the ball too long.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:03 pm
  • Russell has “many” weaknesses as a passer? Holy Andy Dalton batman

    Bias is a hell of a drug. Never seen a successful QB so scrutinized and belittled. Even more bizarre, Russell will probably start to be protected better, with an adequate running game(like any QB in the league, including Brady). But you know what his critics will say???

    “Russell has done a complete 180 as a passer. He was never a good passer before. But now that I cannot factually criticize him or ignore his production, I am now going to conveniently claim that Russell has magically improved as a Quarterback.”

    Just like Eagles fans with McNabb, and the Falcons fans with Vick(both of whom had the actual flaws at Qb that some here claims Russell has), some Seahawks fans will always be anti-Russ. Russ has flaws as a Quarterback, but saying he has “many” is quite ridiculous honestly :pukeface:
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:12 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.



    100% correct.

    In the 'glory years' RW had some things really going for him.

    -Still an unknown commodity.
    -Beast Mode
    -World Class Defense

    He's now older, a little slower, but most important, teams are as you say fully prepared for his scrambling which has more fully exposed his QB weaknesses of which there are many.

    Hoping Carson can continue to blossom as a back because RW really needs to be able to play with a legit run threat to keep defenses honest.


    QB weaknesses are many? I mean other than being a little short and occasionally holding the ball too long, what are Wilson’s “many” weaknesses?

    Wilson was his usual solid efficient self today. Made throws on time. Hit some tight windows. Avoided turnovers. That’s the Wilson we want. Warts and all, apparently.

    Russell Wilson has a lot of weaknesses as a passer. Right now Schottenheimer is trying to hammer some of those out of him. If I had to pin down his weaknesses, the first would be his footwork in the pocket. This is something Schottenheimer even mentioned, and what he has been working on with Russ all offseason long. Footwork is very important for a QB, it is a vital skill set that affects a QB's ball placement and power. If a QB doesn't have proper footwork you see errant balls, and things such as over throws and under throws, both of which we have seen from Wilson when he has been confined to the pocket. His ball placement can be suspect at times as well, which this directly relates to footwork.

    The second problem I've been seeing is lack of awareness in the pocket. He doesn't seem to have that same internal clock that most Quarterbacks possess. A good example of this is last week. The bears were bringing obvious blitzes, and Wilson wasn't aware when the corners were bearing down on him. The thing about Wilson is before he would just be able to scramble out of situations like that and make them pay for having one less man in coverage. The thing I've been noticing about his scramble lately, is that teams are starting to get a good idea of where he is going to go to, and where he is going to be. They're coming at him with a controlled rush and just collapsing the pocket rather than trying to jail break him. This forces him to beat teams from the pocket. It's always how teams like the Rams have had our number.

    Now, that being said Russell has shown some improvement this game in these areas. Schottenheimer called a quick hit passing game. Russell didn't try to do anything cute, and he executed it. He checked down when he needed to and he had a better grasp of when people were bearing down on him. It was the first glimpse we've gotten of his work in the offseason. One play really stuck out to me. He was in the pocket, and the Seahawks had run a play action from under center. The defensive ends were closing in on him, in the past he would have retreated back into the open field and played a game of matador. Instead he simply stepped up into the pocket, and made a slick slide to set up his blockers and delivered a bullet with a guy in his face. It was the best throw Russ made all game, and it hit Lockett in stride and when he wasn't necessarily open. He was thrown open by Russell.

    The significance of this routine play was how fluid Russ looked in that moment. He looked like Tom Brady manipulating the pocket. There was no wasted movement, everything was smooth. He simply stepped up and messed up the defensive ends pursuit angles. THIS is the kind of play you need if you want consistency from quarter to quarter, game to game. It is an element that was missing in Russ's game. If Schottenheimer is able to unlock his potential as a pure pocket passer and merge it with his scrambling abilities then we have another Steve Young on our hands.


    Great friggin' post!

    Reminds me of the Seahawks Reddit board. Some incredibly sharp minds over there.

    Keep it coming.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:23 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:Russell has “many” weaknesses as a passer? Holy Andy Dalton batman

    Bias is a hell of a drug. Never seen a successful QB so scrutinized and belittled. Even more bizarre, Russell will probably start to be protected better, with an adequate running game(like any QB in the league, including Brady). But you know what his critics will say???

    “Russell has done a complete 180 as a passer. He was never a good passer before. But now that I cannot factually criticize him or ignore his production, I am now going to conveniently claim that Russell has magically improved as a Quarterback.”

    Just like Eagles fans with McNabb, and the Falcons fans with Vick(both of whom had the actual flaws at Qb that some here claims Russell has), some Seahawks fans will always be anti-Russ. Russ has flaws as a Quarterback, but saying he has “many” is quite ridiculous honestly :pukeface:

    I never said "he's done a complete 180" as a passer. Stop trying to strawman me. I said he had needed to work on a few things, and this game he did a good job executing what he has been practicing this off-season. Am I not allowed to say anything bad about our QB, am I now not a "true fan" because I don't worship the ground Wilson walks on? I've never said he was a bad QB, I never said we should replace him. I said he has a few things to work on, and even our offensive coordinator has said as much.

    The first thing Schottenheimer did when he came in here is work on his footwork, and told him to widen his throwing base. That should tell you that this is an area that Wilson needed to work on. It's all about doing these things consistently. Wilson can have good footwork, but too often he was reverting to bad habits. Things such as spinning around in the pocket when he has no pressure on him and retreating back instead of forward.

    Wilson is a good QB, but it isn't uncommon for him to go three full quarters without doing much of anything. Part of that is Pete, but part of that is also on Wilson. Right now the name of the game is being able to merge pocket passing with his unique talents. As I said, if he is able to do so he could end up being every bit as good as a Steve Young, Brett Favre, and Aaron Rodgers.

    It is not a stretch to say that he still has a lot to work on as a passer.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:01 am
  • All his work out and eating ethics.. the guy is chubby... tummy was wabbling all over the place..lol
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:50 am
  • If Russ's deficiencies (pocket presence, executing within the offense, keeping on schedule) are beyond correction then I agree we should just let him be him.

    Schotty seems to be trying to get him to execute within the offense, inside the pocket, take the short throw when it's there, and in general eschew the high-variance plays such as scrambling around losing 20 yards (or escaping for a bomb) and try to keep the offense on schedule.

    The offense hasn't been high-flying these last two games but down and distance seem more manageable. Running the ball has mainly ensured we aren't 3rd and 10 every time, and has also cut down on penalties as Ifedi isn't trying to get a jump on the guy across from him pass protecting every down.

    I get the feeling we're trying to find out if Russ can execute within an offense or whether the OC just decides when to sprinkle in pass plays and then calls PA and Russ just runs around. If it ends up being the latter it could work, but if they just pull him a little bit towards more pocket discipline then to me it's worth the short-term struggle while Russ is clearly less comfortable.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:36 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:Russell has “many” weaknesses as a passer? Holy Andy Dalton batman

    Bias is a hell of a drug. Never seen a successful QB so scrutinized and belittled. Even more bizarre, Russell will probably start to be protected better, with an adequate running game(like any QB in the league, including Brady). But you know what his critics will say???

    “Russell has done a complete 180 as a passer. He was never a good passer before. But now that I cannot factually criticize him or ignore his production, I am now going to conveniently claim that Russell has magically improved as a Quarterback.”

    Just like Eagles fans with McNabb, and the Falcons fans with Vick(both of whom had the actual flaws at Qb that some here claims Russell has), some Seahawks fans will always be anti-Russ. Russ has flaws as a Quarterback, but saying he has “many” is quite ridiculous honestly :pukeface:

    I never said "he's done a complete 180" as a passer. Stop trying to strawman me. I said he had needed to work on a few things, and this game he did a good job executing what he has been practicing this off-season. Am I not allowed to say anything bad about our QB, am I now not a "true fan" because I don't worship the ground Wilson walks on? I've never said he was a bad QB, I never said we should replace him. I said he has a few things to work on, and even our offensive coordinator has said as much.

    The first thing Schottenheimer did when he came in here is work on his footwork, and told him to widen his throwing base. That should tell you that this is an area that Wilson needed to work on. It's all about doing these things consistently. Wilson can have good footwork, but too often he was reverting to bad habits. Things such as spinning around in the pocket when he has no pressure on him and retreating back instead of forward.

    Wilson is a good QB, but it isn't uncommon for him to go three full quarters without doing much of anything. Part of that is Pete, but part of that is also on Wilson. Right now the name of the game is being able to merge pocket passing with his unique talents. As I said, if he is able to do so he could end up being every bit as good as a Steve Young, Brett Favre, and Aaron Rodgers.

    It is not a stretch to say that he still has a lot to work on as a passer.



    My intention was not to strawman. Of course criticism of Russell is justified. But like I said, let's not pretend as if Russell Wilson is suddenly doing things he wasn't doing before. There's plenty of All-22 tape and Youtube videos that shows Russell, particularly when he has some structure around him, can make virtually every throw. That's all I'm saying.







    The question with Russ is consistency. At the same time, we can't conveniently ignore some of the poor circumstances around him to somehow negate what he's done really well as a passer. Then when he starts to do well suggest that Schotty is a key reason. Russell has areas for improvement but if he has a strong season, it will largely be because Schotty has the most talented QB he's ever had
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:59 pm
  • Image
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:32 pm
  • Optimus25 wrote:
    sutz wrote:And except that the rest of the league is on to us. Defenses are all going to more controlled pass rush, with lane discipline, designed to keep Russ in the pocket .

    He's not out there on the field alone, there's a whole other team that studies his moves and schemes to compensate for them

    Now, he can't suprise people any more. He'll do some of this, but not as much as before. Defenses won't let him.


    I disagree to an extent. I'm with OP in a way in that it looks like we are scheming away from 'mobile Russ', which allows the defense to counter as you describe.

    There are ways to unleash mobile Russ though to counter. It does require us to have a running game via the running back though, so hopefully yesterday was more the norm than the anomaly.

    So i guess my answer to OP is that i agree with you, but the problem isn't NFL defenses are somehow locking us down now. It's that with a non existent run game, it has been too easy for a couple years now to account for Russ. With a red hot Carson, you can expect mobile Russ to resurface. And i hope schott feeds that.

    ^ The last two games where we had a decent Running Attack, backs this up ^ + we're still in the early stages of the Schottenheimer project, so it's really too soon to draw any hard line conclusions.
    With a better Run Game, Defenses can't just key on Wilson.
    Oh and, IF folks want Wilson to have Drew Breese like successes, the Seahawks are going to have to provide him with "Drew Breese" type PROTECTION, and more than just ONE outlet Receiver (Doug Baldwin).
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:11 pm
  • Things I'm for:
    -Staying in the pocket, throwing on time.
    -Designed roll out passes
    -Scrambling forward for first downs or more


    Things I'm not for:
    -Making one read, dropping eyes/head down, spinning out or backwards.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:43 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:All his work out and eating ethics.. the guy is chubby... tummy was wabbling all over the place..lol


    I didn't want to bring this up but you're right - Russ is back to being a bit on the chunky side.

    Seems weight is becoming an increasing challenge for him which is then more pronounced given his smaller stature.

    GO HAWKS!
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:02 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:...I didn't want to bring this up...


    I gotta stop you right there and call BS on that statement.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:00 am
  • anyone think he could've/should've got that first down when he scrambled and ended up a yard short? I think the Penny run on 4th and 1 might've followed it, but I was surprised to see him caught. I thought he looked great in 2017 so I'm worried the hammy injury from the Bears game is going to be really problematic
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:20 am
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:...I didn't want to bring this up...


    I gotta stop you right there and call BS on that statement.


    :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:56 am
  • Watching Mahomes last night reminded me of the old Russell. I understand KC has better pass protection and I get the need or rather the desire to have RW get better at reads and getting the ball out quick, but I miss the magic. There was a time when the 4th quarter came around, we were behind a bit and it was Russell Time. He took the game over. 3rd and whatever and he was going to get the first down in the air or running. Whatever it took. I hope we get to the point where they let him loose a bit more.

    I'm not talking about passing 60% of the time. A good balance between run and pass is absolutely needed with this Oline. Maybe later in the year, when they feel he's progressed enough, they can take off the reins. I think we'll be a better team with the balance and a touch of magic.
    Russell has some stats that aren't Superb? Ow! Love his balls anyways!

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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:14 pm
  • Let him scramble that's what he does best :and throwing on the run. The little fella can't see from the pocket anyway ; and he doesn't process fast enough from the pocket . He always had a slow trigger. He's only got 2 or 3 years of speed wheels left so let him scramble...just what I see. Not a Wilson hater just never was in awe of him like many.
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Re: Russ and his scrambling ability
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:36 pm
  • Sorry, late to the party but Spin, that was a nice post man. Well thought-out and accurate.
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