Earl a no show.....

BullHawk33

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
455
Reaction score
3
Location
Puyallup
Walter Jones didn't join in on the optional stuff and didn't even show up for training camp until he had to. Frankly, I put Earl in about the same situation. Yes, it would be better for the position players around him if he was there but they get more work and have to practice for hopefully the worse case scenario. Once Earl shows up, if he is still here, he'll be great.

Not worried.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,611
pacific101":39gz38h9 said:
In that instance I vote we just trade him off to anyone that will have him, and clear his salary cap off our books, preferably to one of the teams located in one of coldest places in the country, and with a team that almost never plays Dallas, so that he can't embarrass and humiliate his fans, and teammates like he did with us immediately following our loss to them.


Then your trade value in return is greatly diminished, because it'd be a team Earl wouldn't sign an extension with.

Best case scenario is we find a trade partner that Earl is excited about signing an extension with, which in turn means his value goes way up because that team isn't just going to have him for one year and then he leaves.

I get the hostility, because by Earl only wanting to go to Dallas, or only a handful of teams, it gives those teams more leverage because they know we're in an untenable situation.
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
9,986
Reaction score
1,675
Location
Sammamish, WA
The key word is "voluntary" if the Seahawks want players to show up for the minicamp, then they should change it to "mandatory". Can't blame a veteran athlete who shows up ready to play when it's time to go for not showing up to a "voluntary" minicamp.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,892
Reaction score
406
vin.couve12":3m6t4tfe said:
MontanaHawk05":3m6t4tfe said:
vin.couve12":3m6t4tfe said:
I've never been Earl's biggest fan

That much is obvious. Any reason why?
No one big particular reason. Just another overrated first rounder that doesn't provide all together more value for the ROI than other safeties that can only play FS. He's played as a cover 3 safety most of his career, which is one of 3 deep players, and is one of the easier positions as a safety. The two most stressed positions in coverage in that defense is actually the MLB and SS/WLB, whichever is playing the short middle zone. Since you go so conservative with 3 deep instead of 2, you get dinked and dunked a lot because the deep side is pretty well closed off with 3 dedicated players. We do go cover 1 and get into some blitz packages, but being surrounded by such a high level of talent makes his job easier. Fans often think it's the other way around, but it isn't true. He's even excused of a lot of short comings, often simply by people refusing to believe what they see. The TE seam route is often his responsibility, for instance, and it's been a big problem for a long time. The short zone guys are only supposed to carry that so far and hand off the inside seem to the FS. Or when he can't barely jump 30 inches off the ground for a ball when he's 5'10...or how fans and announcers, who are paid to make gods of men BTW, say how he plays sideline to sideline in coverage and he literally almost never does because he's literally not supposed to per the scheme, etc, etc, etc.

He's a very, very good player. One of many 1st rounders who's lived up to expectations, but that isn't saying a whole lot in terms of greatness. There's just a lot of lies and nonsense regarding a lot of 1st round picks and that's par the course and he's one of them. If you know schemes and what you're looking at, who's responsibility is what, and then listen to people's BS when you know damn well better, it's just old. He's a very good player, but once he's traded you'll start to see him get exposed more without all the talent around him. His main asset has been quickness and acceleration his entire career. His brains has been the SS since he was a rook. He can't jump, leaves his feet constantly and never stopped that even with experience, etc, etc, etc. A lot like the NBA dunker that gets the fans all riled up, but could be an actual better basketball player.

If you wanted truly elite, scheme diverse players on the Hawks during the previous tenure, you're looking at Wagner, Kam, and Bennett, as much as people don't want to admit the latter. People began to hate Bennett, in particular, but you can put him in any defense and he would thrive. Wagner is the truly special player in this D though. He's the best overall LB I've seen since Seau. And no, Lewis and Willis don't compare. Neither was nearly as good at the POA. They were pretty boys by comparison. Wagner has the overall skillset of a true great. Earl, not so much. That said, if he wants to play extortion games...well, that can be dealt with. He doesn't hold the cards he thinks he does.

While I would agree with a lot of what you've said, I don't see how it changes Earl's value to the Hawks. Every once in a while, you get players who justify their worth with sheer hustle and clutch, and while it's not quantifiable or falsifiable in ice-cold numbers analysis, it's still there. Those plays of his have gotten us a number of unlikely wins over the years.

You say quickness and acceleration have been his main asset. Yes, and? I'd ratchet up his sideline presence a few notches than you've given it credit for. I see him over there. Maybe he's breaking assignment to be over there, but he's there. The mere existence of his range discourages a lot of passes, meaning that much of his influence shows up in pass rush. (Coverage affects pass rush as well - forcing a QB to double-clutch means the pass rush has an extra second to get home. I'm a fan of bringing in lots of pass rush guys too, but it works both ways.)

It's not surprising to me that other teams aren't willing to shell out a pair of first-rounders for Earl. Like you said, he probably won't be as impactful without the scheme and without the other talent around him. But that's been true of all our guys. Sherman won't be as good. Maxwell and Browner sure weren't. But that doesn't mean they weren't great here, so why should he be treated as if this is some other team? He's great here. Use him while you have him.

As far as "compensation after he leaves", I swear, I have never seen more angst over the next Kris Durham in my life. A fourth-round comp pick isn't a huge amount to wring one's hands over, and unlike certain fans, the Seahawks are not clutching their pearls nearly as hard over ComegetmeGate. They're not going to take a crummy trade deal now just to soothe their own injured pride. Put him on the field in 2018, let him play out his deal, watch him walk to Dallas on his own in 2019. What do we get in return? A better defense in 2018. That's nothing to sneeze at.
 

IndyHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
7,997
Reaction score
1,633
pacific101 said:
One consideration that was presented by a 12 this morning, on a podcast, speculated that Earl's absence from this voluntary workouts and his absence from the Seahawks facilities entirely, was very likely because the home office and not Earl, had opted to ban Earl from any and all team related activities, or access to any of their properties.

If they are, in fact, still entertaining any ideas about trading Earl away before the draft, they would want to make damn sure that he doesn't do anything to injure himself, because that would prevent him from passing a physical and that would effectively kill any current negotiations that might be in the works.

There apparently is a clause In the players contracts, that provide, that in the event a player were to get injured, while engaged in any activities on Seahawks premises, that the Seahawks, would be legally liable and obligated, to pay that player whatever they were due according to the terms of their contracts. Meaning that Earl could hold out all season without penalty or recourse by Seattle and get paid too.

If this truly the beginnings of his hold out, and he does persist in this, I vote that we do whatever we can to give him his way, and hope that any team out there, will give us a 1st round pick and anything else for him. I think it would go without saying, if this is the case, that Earl has exposed his true colors in all of this, and I believe we are better team without him on it.

If he want's to set on the sidelines all season and not get paid, and accumulate financial penalties week after week, for not playing, that works for me too. Then we refuse to negotiate any future contracts with him as well, because he has demonstrated that we can't rely on him to keep his end of the contracts we have with him at present.

In that instance I vote we just trade him off to anyone that will have him, and clear his salary cap off our books, preferably to one of the teams located in one of coldest places in the country, and with a team that almost never plays Dallas, so that he can't embarrass and humiliate his fans, and teammates like he did with us immediately following our loss to them.[/quote]Am I reading this right?We BEAT the Cowpokes pretty good.
I loved that part but the Earl part turned me off
 

Schadie001

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
736
Reaction score
0
There are two reasons Earl is not there. First, it was addressed above, if he is traded there can't be any chance that he gets hurt prior to the draft or his trade value goes way down. Second, and the one I believe is more feasible which also goes along with the first is that Earl wants to sign a long term deal after the draft. He and Aaron Donald are both no shows, both in the last year of their contract and both don't want to get hurt before they ink a new deal. Makes perfect sense and has nothing to do with protest, being mad, or any of that. It's being smart when you need to be smart.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,611
Schadie001":3irxe78b said:
There are two reasons Earl is not there. First, it was addressed above, if he is traded there can't be any chance that he gets hurt prior to the draft or his trade value goes way down. Second, and the one I believe is more feasible which also goes along with the first is that Earl wants to sign a long term deal after the draft. He and Aaron Donald are both no shows, both in the last year of their contract and both don't want to get hurt before they ink a new deal. Makes perfect sense and has nothing to do with protest, being mad, or any of that. It's being smart when you need to be smart.

Well it has a little to do with being mad, just like Donald Earl is punishing his team by not being present for workouts to show the FO that he is indeed not happy with not getting his extension.

But he's already said he wouldn't hold out and will be here when it matters, so I honestly don't care if Earl isn't here for voluntary camps. Dude prepares and trains like a champ, he's the last guy I'd worry about not coming into camp in shape and ready to roll.
 

NFSeahawks

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
4,714
Reaction score
0
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.
 

kidhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
22,954
Reaction score
2,774
Location
Anchorage, AK
NFSeahawks628":170webt3 said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

To say that "No one is buying into Pete's mantra" is quite a bit of hyperbole don't you think? Obviously some have stopped buying in and they seem to be gone now. That is a far cry from No One buying in
 

NFSeahawks

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
4,714
Reaction score
0
kidhawk":2wyyeu7f said:
NFSeahawks628":2wyyeu7f said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

To say that "No one is buying into Pete's mantra" is quite a bit of hyperbole don't you think? Obviously some have stopped buying in and they seem to be gone now. That is a far cry from No One buying in

How is it hyperbole, it's literally the idea that former players have stated in Sherman and Bennett. The "rahrah" stuff works over four years but after that it gets old. This is Petes last chance and he has to get a new group to buy in if he's going to win it all. I love Earl but it's the way the business works, plus he's grown kinda sour here with his stunts. He's shown himself he's no longer buying in, he's a money man.

Furthermore I'd like to get a few more draft picks so the trade-off to me is worth it overall.
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
9,986
Reaction score
1,675
Location
Sammamish, WA
Sgt. Largent":2wfn8cxh said:
Schadie001":2wfn8cxh said:
There are two reasons Earl is not there. First, it was addressed above, if he is traded there can't be any chance that he gets hurt prior to the draft or his trade value goes way down. Second, and the one I believe is more feasible which also goes along with the first is that Earl wants to sign a long term deal after the draft. He and Aaron Donald are both no shows, both in the last year of their contract and both don't want to get hurt before they ink a new deal. Makes perfect sense and has nothing to do with protest, being mad, or any of that. It's being smart when you need to be smart.

Well it has a little to do with being mad, just like Donald Earl is punishing his team by not being present for workouts to show the FO that he is indeed not happy with not getting his extension.

But he's already said he wouldn't hold out and will be here when it matters, so I honestly don't care if Earl isn't here for voluntary camps. Dude prepares and trains like a champ, he's the last guy I'd worry about not coming into camp in shape and ready to roll.

In my opinion, he is in no way punishing his team. It's a voluntary minicamp. If it was mandatory, I'm sure he would be present.
 

chris98251

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
39,594
Reaction score
1,607
Location
Roy Wa.
KitsapGuy":34r3y2eo said:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/988565939791642625[/tweet]

I call your 1st round and a 3rd rounder says Jerry.
 

adeltaY

New member
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
3,281
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, OR
kidhawk":2yt2yqs6 said:
NFSeahawks628":2yt2yqs6 said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

To say that "No one is buying into Pete's mantra" is quite a bit of hyperbole don't you think? Obviously some have stopped buying in and they seem to be gone now. That is a far cry from No One buying in

If no one is buying in after four years, and we are keeping Pete, shouldn't we get rid of Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Baldwin, and Britt? Shoot, let's throw Ryan in there for good measure.
 

NFSeahawks

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
4,714
Reaction score
0
adeltaY":1t6lt0sl said:
kidhawk":1t6lt0sl said:
NFSeahawks628":1t6lt0sl said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

To say that "No one is buying into Pete's mantra" is quite a bit of hyperbole don't you think? Obviously some have stopped buying in and they seem to be gone now. That is a far cry from No One buying in

If no one is buying in after four years, and we are keeping Pete, shouldn't we get rid of Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Baldwin, and Britt? Shoot, let's throw Ryan in there for good measure.

No, he just needs to restart, besides that wasn't my point, some were getting sour about the team not progressing in certain areas, due to Pete's loyalty. I think JS played a bigger part in the coaching change than most think. Pete may not have to redo his complete philosophy but he has to restart it, as much as he admitted to during his pre-draft press conference. He's too passive with his players until it bites him. You have to always be evolving in this game in order to stay on top.
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
NFSeahawks628":33jrwnjj said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

You're pretty much right. Won't quite say "nobody" but a large % of the veteran crew has been tuning Pete out for years. Anyone who took an honest look at the environment during the last few training camps could see that.

The apathy from the veterans toward the whole routine was appalling - very unprofessional.
 

toffee

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
10,589
Reaction score
6,740
Location
SoCal Desert
Years ago back when DT Dana Stubblefield was an all pro and pro bowler, our homes were very close by. When fans and media were debating if 9ers would trade or keep him. We the neighbors knew that he was leaving because he House was on the market ....

Any neighbors of Earl Thomas here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kidhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
22,954
Reaction score
2,774
Location
Anchorage, AK
toffee":11jdh5f3 said:
Years ago back when DT Dana Stubblefield was an all pro and pro bowler, our homes were very close by. When fans and media were debating if 9ers would trade or keep him. We the neighbors knew that he was leaving because he House was on the market ....

Any neighbors of Earl Thomas here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Earl lives in Texas. He may own a place here as well, but I've never heard that he does, so he may well just rent. Odds are good he's not moving out of Texas anytime soon no matter what happens with his contract
 

jammerhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
10,177
Reaction score
1,781
semiahmoo":3ij37run said:
NFSeahawks628":3ij37run said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

You're pretty much right. Won't quite say "nobody" but a large % of the veteran crew has been tuning Pete out for years. Anyone who took an honest look at the environment during the last few training camps could see that.

The apathy from the veterans toward the whole routine was appalling - very unprofessional.

Not sure I agree that it is a large % of the veteran crew, but for those guys, they got paid to be leaders and if they are actively sabotaging the program by sneering at the message then it's time rid the team of those who are apathetic and unprofessional. Pete's formula works but it requires a team pull together and an implicit following of Pete's 3 rules in an environment of ruthless competition.

Given the heads that rolled on the Offensive/Defensive coaching staff and the elimination of the high profile players Sherman and Bennett the message should be loud and clear going forward.
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
jammerhawk":38mfx4fs said:
semiahmoo":38mfx4fs said:
NFSeahawks628":38mfx4fs said:
I'd rather trade him. No one is buying into Pete's mantra so we gotta restart.

You're pretty much right. Won't quite say "nobody" but a large % of the veteran crew has been tuning Pete out for years. Anyone who took an honest look at the environment during the last few training camps could see that.

The apathy from the veterans toward the whole routine was appalling - very unprofessional.

Not sure I agree that it is a large % of the veteran crew, but for those guys, they got paid to be leaders and if they are actively sabotaging the program by sneering at the message then it's time rid the team of those who are apathetic and unprofessional. Pete's formula works but it requires a team pull together and an implicit following of Pete's 3 rules in an environment of ruthless competition.

Given the heads that rolled on the Offensive/Defensive coaching staff and the elimination of the high profile players Sherman and Bennett the message should be loud and clear going forward.

Totally agree though it should have been done a season earlier IMO.

Pete's window to now pull off a legit playoff run is very narrow. He might do it. Love it if he did.
It'll be tough though...
 
Top