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The Pete Carroll era is over

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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:36 pm
  • KitsapGuy wrote:
    KitsapGuy wrote:Imagine having the best QB in the history of your franchise, and he's in the middle of his prime, and you're writing off the team in March. Imagine that. :roll:


    This was in response to the original post, nothing more. :177692:


    Was the response to yours I thought was teeth gassing nonsense.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:15 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    KitsapGuy wrote:Imagine having the best QB in the history of your franchise, and he's in the middle of his prime, and you're writing off the team in March. Imagine that. :roll:


    What exactly do you expect of the team this season? We rode Wilson's coattails last season and it didn't work. There was way more talent across the board than there will be this season. Add the Rams and Niners getting better and the outlook isn't real bright. Its a rebuilding season and you act like there's playoff or even Super Bowl aspirations.



    Not Writing off the team in March is the same as Super Bowl?

    Do you feel better after your extropolating rant?

    The impatience on here is equaled only by the outward fretting.


    What exactly does writing off a team mean then? Obviously there must be a specific definition for the term that i'm missing due to how you responded. The goal of any team is to win the Super Bowl. If you don't believe they can obtain that, is that writing them off? Playoffs? 8 wins? Regardless, the team has cut ties with pro bowlers and future HoF's and replaced them with day old bread discount players. Not sure how somebody can harbor visions of grandeur this season with those type of changes. Very few Hawk fans are expecting much this year and for good reason.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:28 pm
  • Pete Carroll will be here for, at the very least, 4 more years IMO. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if its considerably longer than that and would be shocked if it's less.
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    Richard Sherman wrote:People look forward to writing us off. Our demise was greatly overstated.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:50 am
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    KitsapGuy wrote:Imagine having the best QB in the history of your franchise, and he's in the middle of his prime, and you're writing off the team in March. Imagine that. :roll:


    What exactly do you expect of the team this season? We rode Wilson's coattails last season and it didn't work. There was way more talent across the board than there will be this season. Add the Rams and Niners getting better and the outlook isn't real bright. Its a rebuilding season and you act like there's playoff or even Super Bowl aspirations.



    Not Writing off the team in March is the same as Super Bowl?

    Do you feel better after your extropolating rant?

    The impatience on here is equaled only by the outward fretting.


    What exactly does writing off a team mean then? Obviously there must be a specific definition for the term that i'm missing due to how you responded. The goal of any team is to win the Super Bowl. If you don't believe they can obtain that, is that writing them off? Playoffs? 8 wins? Regardless, the team has cut ties with pro bowlers and future HoF's and replaced them with day old bread discount players. Not sure how somebody can harbor visions of grandeur this season with those type of changes. Very few Hawk fans are expecting much this year and for good reason.


    Boy you do love to assume a narrative. You’ve dragged this down to your level. Visions of grandeur? How stupidly condescending and ridiculously assumptive. Can’t see anywhere in my post I said anything about what to expect. But asserting that if the team isn’t expected to go to the super bowl it means they are rebuilding is nonsense. See 2017-18 Philadelphia Eagles. I’m sure you’ll find a reason that narrative can’t work as it doesn’t fit yours or “most Hawk fans”

    Cut ties with future Hall of famers who no longer play at that level. Sherman Bennett Graham and Richardson were a part of a very underperforming team last year. I think “most Hawk” fans (dumb right?) who aren’t running around in a fit are excited to see how it plays out.

    The whole narrative is as ridiculous as starting a thread called “Pete Carroll era is over” while he’s not only still the coach but clearly responsible for the direction of the team.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:14 am
  • It's pretty clear what direction Pete is heading and it's not 'rebuilding'. You don't 'rebuild' with a franchise QB like Russell just entering his prime.

    Offensive vs defensive salaries were the biggest gap in the NFL. Defensive stars are starting to get older and coming into third contracts which good teams don't typically give, if not at a discount.

    Pete is getting closer to a 50/50 split on salaries and likely realized it's time to put some money back into the offense to help Russell out while also having faith in himself and coaches they can develop new young talent on defense. I'm guessing Shaq takes a big step forward and wouldn't be shocked if Jordan and Mingo solidify themselves as starters. Draft will likely be interior OL and RB early and then DB's who fit the scheme. Cutting Sherman (as much as I hated it) got 4 potential starters (Coleman, McDougald, Jordan, Mingo) a new contract and this type of roster churn on castaways is what got them to the SB. There's a vision here even if you don't think there is.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:37 am
  • Last I checked, he's still the coach, and will be as long as he wants to. Not over until he decides it's over.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:03 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Boy you do love to assume a narrative. You’ve dragged this down to your level. Visions of grandeur? How stupidly condescending and ridiculously assumptive. Can’t see anywhere in my post I said anything about what to expect. But asserting that if the team isn’t expected to go to the super bowl it means they are rebuilding is nonsense. See 2017-18 Philadelphia Eagles. I’m sure you’ll find a reason that narrative can’t work as it doesn’t fit yours or “most Hawk fans”

    Cut ties with future Hall of famers who no longer play at that level. Sherman Bennett Graham and Richardson were a part of a very underperforming team last year. I think “most Hawk” fans (dumb right?) who aren’t running around in a fit are excited to see how it plays out.

    The whole narrative is as ridiculous as starting a thread called “Pete Carroll era is over” while he’s not only still the coach but clearly responsible for the direction of the team.


    As an informed and seemingly intelligent NFL fan, what do you expect this season? Having read a lot of your posts in different threads, I find that you do not believe the team is rebuilding right now, but i'm not sure what you would consider it. How can anybody be crucified for writing the team off with all the factors in place presently? The team is far less talented now than it was even last year while our main competitors have gotten even stronger. You cant ignore ABC logic sometimes. The people who do are the same people that refused to accept the team had been regressing for the past 3 years. Writing the team off means that some people dont expect the 2018 Seahawks to be very successful and thats just common sense. Also, common sense plays a part in understanding this thread and the OP's intentions. I cant speak for the OP, but I interpreted the thread as meaning the Pete Carroll era of being successful and the team being SB threats is over. I agree with that.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:26 am
  • Thats a great question and I appreciate you asking it, instead of inferring it, much like you are doing with the OP's thread title.

    Im not sure how intelligent i am. But i have concerns and I have hope. I also have the right mind to know that losing the players we have is not the end of the world and there is still plenty of time for the roster to take shape and whatever plan there is to be put into place.

    I don't buy into the term "rebuilding" as to me it's pejorative for "starting over." I dont think that's what the Seahawks are doing. I think they have every intention of building the bridge while they cross it, meaning competing and building. Call it what you want. Nothing will be known until August.

    ABC logic in football gets you so far. The Eagles were a 40-1 shot to win the Super Bowl. Nothing is certain and nothing is really known until the ball flies in the air.

    Everyone saw the team regressing. People saw the moves that were to counter that regression along with the development of the QB and hoped for the best. Hasnt worked out that way. Not terrible, not great. This is the chance for that change.

    What it looks like won't be known for some time, which is why i bristle and such affirmative statements about the team's future.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:38 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote: Not over until he decides it's over.


    It's over when the owner decides it over. That's no different here, if this team goes 5-11 over the next two years, believe me, Allen will decide it's over, not Pete.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:55 am
  • Ad Hawk wrote:So, HansGruber throws a grenade and runs for cover to witness the carnage... where is he to discuss his own thread?


    I'm currently in central Vietnam, riding through the country on a motorcycle (from Ho Chi Minh City to Hanoi). For the last few weeks, I've been hanging out in Danang and lounging on My Khe - easily one of the top 5 beaches in the world in my book. Then a drive tup the Hai Van Pass to Suoi Voi and Lang Co Beach (stunning) before rolling into the Bach Ma National Park a few hours ago. Haven't been thinking too much about this site, just checking to see who's left us lately. Did I mention that the Vietnamese are truly the kindest, friendliest people on earth, as a whole? And BBQ chicken feet are much better than they sound (also, I'll take a Tiger over a Corona any day).


    But back to the point...

    I do get a laugh from people saying Carroll hasn't been fired so the era isn't over. Short memories around here. The Holmgren era was over a few years before he was let go. And Mora was a lame duck from the get-go.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:56 am
  • Fair enough, I just don't see him getting fired. If he does, so be it.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:04 am
  • pittpnthrs wrote: How can anybody be crucified for writing the team off with all the factors in place presently?


    I think "crucified" is a little melodramatic, but to answer your question, because it's mid March. Free agency isn't even a week old and the draft is several weeks away. I would be concerned if the season started this Sunday and the roster looked exactly the same as it does today, but the season is over 5 months away. There is no doubt in my mind that the roster is going to change significantly between now and September.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:07 am
  • Chapow wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote: How can anybody be crucified for writing the team off with all the factors in place presently?


    I think "crucified" is a little melodramatic, but to answer your question, because it's mid March. Free agency isn't even a week old and the draft is several weeks away. I would be concerned if the season started this Sunday and the roster looked exactly the same as it does today, but the season is over 5 months away. There is no doubt in my mind that the roster is going to change significantly between now and September.


    A point lost to the allure of melodrama
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:57 am
  • Chapow wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote: How can anybody be crucified for writing the team off with all the factors in place presently?


    I think "crucified" is a little melodramatic, but to answer your question, because it's mid March. Free agency isn't even a week old and the draft is several weeks away. I would be concerned if the season started this Sunday and the roster looked exactly the same as it does today, but the season is over 5 months away. There is no doubt in my mind that the roster is going to change significantly between now and September.


    People keep saying that its only March, but why does that even matter? We havent come close to replacing the talent we got rid of and we have no cash or leverage going forward to even attempt it. What are the expectations or even dreams for the upcoming months that would cause somebody to think its going to be fine and we'll compete? Trade ET for draft picks and free up cash? Release Avril for cash? What about Kam? Does anybody expect high dollar, big name, playmaking FA signings in the immediate future? Wishing and praying for a draft that gives us 3 or 4 high caliber players that are ready to be plugged in immediately? What else gets us to the level where we might be able to compete? Look, I realize the roster needed churned, but its going to take time for the pieces to fit together so we can make another run and I dont believe it will be with Pete's remaining tenure and definitely not next season. Optimism is great, but it gets in the way of realism a lot of the time. I just wonder how people thinking we might be fine this season comes to that conclusion.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:23 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.


    True. Almost everything I was told and then leaked here has come to pass.

    I would love for Pete to have one more run at a SB during whatever time he has left in Seattle but that isn't likely.

    There's always hope though.

    Go Hawks!
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:38 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote: How can anybody be crucified for writing the team off with all the factors in place presently?


    I think "crucified" is a little melodramatic, but to answer your question, because it's mid March. Free agency isn't even a week old and the draft is several weeks away. I would be concerned if the season started this Sunday and the roster looked exactly the same as it does today, but the season is over 5 months away. There is no doubt in my mind that the roster is going to change significantly between now and September.


    People keep saying that its only March, but why does that even matter? We havent come close to replacing the talent we got rid of and we have no cash or leverage going forward to even attempt it. What are the expectations or even dreams for the upcoming months that would cause somebody to think its going to be fine and we'll compete? Trade ET for draft picks and free up cash? Release Avril for cash? What about Kam? Does anybody expect high dollar, big name, playmaking FA signings in the immediate future? Wishing and praying for a draft that gives us 3 or 4 high caliber players that are ready to be plugged in immediately? What else gets us to the level where we might be able to compete? Look, I realize the roster needed churned, but its going to take time for the pieces to fit together so we can make another run and I dont believe it will be with Pete's remaining tenure and definitely not next season. Optimism is great, but it gets in the way of realism a lot of the time. I just wonder how people thinking we might be fine this season comes to that conclusion.


    I call it “whistling by the graveyard”.

    I’m not a doom and gloom guy by any means but the facts are the facts. We’ve lost a crap ton of talent. We could lose more. We have several new coaches. We haven’t done anything, as far as new players, to address the most glaring and impactful weakness (IMO) on the team (OL, as if anyone wouldn’t know). We have a dog’s breakfast of running backs. We have 1, maybe 2 WR that we might be able to count on. We are signing unsung role players in free agency. Our draft capital is limited. The Rams were clearly stronger than Seattle last year. Does anyone not remember the 42-7 home beat down? When Seattle had to win? It appears the 49ers are on the rise.

    So, concern as of today seems more than warranted. If PC and JS are able to have this team compete for a division title in 2018, it will be like finding the proverbial pony in the pile of you know what. If they do that, I’ll be the first to come on here and give them the deserved credit.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:49 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote: How can anybody be crucified for writing the team off with all the factors in place presently?


    I think "crucified" is a little melodramatic, but to answer your question, because it's mid March. Free agency isn't even a week old and the draft is several weeks away. I would be concerned if the season started this Sunday and the roster looked exactly the same as it does today, but the season is over 5 months away. There is no doubt in my mind that the roster is going to change significantly between now and September.


    People keep saying that its only March, but why does that even matter? We havent come close to replacing the talent we got rid of and we have no cash or leverage going forward to even attempt it. What are the expectations or even dreams for the upcoming months that would cause somebody to think its going to be fine and we'll compete? Trade ET for draft picks and free up cash? Release Avril for cash? What about Kam? Does anybody expect high dollar, big name, playmaking FA signings in the immediate future? Wishing and praying for a draft that gives us 3 or 4 high caliber players that are ready to be plugged in immediately? What else gets us to the level where we might be able to compete? Look, I realize the roster needed churned, but its going to take time for the pieces to fit together so we can make another run and I dont believe it will be with Pete's remaining tenure and definitely not next season. Optimism is great, but it gets in the way of realism a lot of the time. I just wonder how people thinking we might be fine this season comes to that conclusion.


    You keep talking about all the talent we got rid of and I think a lot of people are confused by who you mean. You claim to be analytical in your thinking but have not correlated the value of all that “talent” against what they e been paid or what they are worth in a football field.

    You continue to look at this from two different perspectives meant to support one narrative: 1. Everything the Hawks do is from a negative position 2. The players that have been moved on represent their highest worth.

    Neither are remotely true.

    So begs the question as to the point you are making or the point in challenging it
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:09 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.


    True. Almost everything I was told and then leaked here has come to pass.

    I would love for Pete to have one more run at a SB during whatever time he has left in Seattle but that isn't likely.

    There's always hope though.

    Go Hawks!


    Like Pete Carroll leaving if the team didn’t make the playoffs.

    You nailed that one.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:41 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.

    "Semihoo" lol. Nice one. :2thumbs:
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:28 pm
  • So if he is not fired then how can his ear be over?
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:04 pm
  • Every good team goes through this in the salary cap era. We were very fortunate that Russel was so good so fast and this allowed us to spend a lot in other places while still under his rookie contract. Now tough choices had to be made as there isn’t as much money to go around. The people we let go all wanted to be here we just needed the cap space and could not afford them. The OP premise that vets walked is rediculous, Sherm called us back to see if we would match his offer. Does that sound like someone who thought Seattle was going down? You have to maintain some vets but reload ALL the time and this means someone who may have been a stud sees the door. No one could have anticipated that Kam and Avril would both suffer probable career ending injuries that would basically hose a good chunck of cap space leaving the team in a tough stop. But Pete is a great teacher and motivator, everyone is replaceable. It may take a year but give that our offense is basically in tact we are in a great position I think to Reload.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:14 am
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.


    True. Almost everything I was told and then leaked here has come to pass.

    I would love for Pete to have one more run at a SB during whatever time he has left in Seattle but that isn't likely.

    There's always hope though.

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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:17 am
  • VivaEfrenHerrera wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.

    "Semihoo" lol. Nice one. :2thumbs:

    Really I couldn't remember off the top of my head on the spelling..
    Semi...What is the story with that name?
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:18 am
  • Aaaah, the I told you so stuff. Never gets old :?
    You claim enough things, eventually something will come true. Unfortunately, there are many who seem to want to team to fail so they can tell us "See, I told you!"
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:37 am
  • HansGruber wrote:Hate to say it. Love Carroll and what he did for us. Best coach in Seahawks history. But this era is over.

    Seahawks are in rebuild mode. There's only so much you can do with undrafted talent. Carroll will be here for 2 more seasons. Schneider will join him in the way out. Paul Allen will go after Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, or some other college talent. Seahawks will not seriously contend until then.

    The mass exodus of free agents speaks for itself. They want to win and know it won't happen here.

    I've been trying to stay positive but honestly we all know what's up.

    Breaks my heart to see all that talent go to waste.


    The funniest thing about these type of posts is that Seahawk fans couldn't see this coming from a mile away.

    They went all in last year and crapped out. This is the result of that.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:48 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    They went all in last year and crapped out. This is the result of that.


    The weird thing about how John and Pete managed last year is it was the first time in their tenure that their moves reeked of desperation. They were being the ones being taken advantage of, instead of the other way around.

    Like, they KNEW they messed up bad in their drafts and free agent acquisitions in prior years, and had no choice but to go with a scorched earth go for broke this is our last chance at trying to win before the collapse of all these bad decisions come back to haunt us.

    So while I don't have high hopes for 2018, it will be interesting to see if John and Pete have it in them to rebuild this roster one more time to make a SB run. Do they have, or even WANT to be here for another 3-4 years possibly to get this roster right?

    Not so sure.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:41 am
  • He's in a better spot... much better spot than when he took over.. he did it once with no resources at all... he has a franchise QB to start this time.. I think he'll be okay.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    VivaEfrenHerrera wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.

    "Semihoo" lol. Nice one. :2thumbs:

    Really I couldn't remember off the top of my head on the spelling..
    Semi...What is the story with that name?

    It comes from one of the local tribal languages, as I recall. I think the translation was something like "tireless fountain of elk droppings" or thereabouts.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:07 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Aaaah, the I told you so stuff. Never gets old :?
    You claim enough things, eventually something will come true. Unfortunately, there are many who seem to want to team to fail so they can tell us "See, I told you!"


    Except that there is a group of them that argued with the all in with Pete and it is going to be fine group two years, we were all labeled and called names, Debbie Downers, Doomers, Negative Nellies, Attention Whores, Contrarians etc, you being one of those.

    We can provide Salt if y9ou need it for the Crow :)
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:35 pm
  • Montana Hawk said, "And what exactly was bad about competing against Sherman? Worst case, they play like the depth they are and yield the corner position to...Sherman. Who's a Hall of Fame talent. I'm not seeing how the presence of vets is destructive to a team when the vets themselves are good."

    My point was that it's not the best scenario for a rookie. No matter how hard they try and how much they risk their health, there is zero chance that they'd be able to beat out guys like Sherman, Thomas, Lynch, Chancellor, Wagner, Wright, Bennett, Avril, etc., even if they have a better training camp and preseason than those guys. It lowers a rookie's incentive to go all out.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:15 pm
  • Some wishful thinking on some 12's part I think. Pete Carroll is far from "DONE". His and John's asses are on the line if they don't figure some way to pull this train wreck we been watching happen the past two or three seasons out of the toilet.
    It cracks me up that all these 12's that are calling for Pete and John's heads are the same ones that were crying for the heads of all the players they cut, and are now suddenly shocked by all the radical moves and decisions being made by them in trying to resurrect the Seahawks from the ashes.

    I am no different than most, I have sat back and shook my head over some of the moves that have been made since seasons end, but as it is all coming back together, I'm becoming more and more convinced that Pete and John still have the magic touch and that we are in for some really crazy good stuff this year. Pete Carroll is singlehandedly the greatest thing that ever happened to the Seattle Seahawks, he was and is still a perfect fit for this team.

    The Seahawks have been a crazy, wild, emotionally fueled and driven monster since it's inception, and everyone that has come to town and tried to kill that emotion and turn the team into a mechanical marvel has failed miserably. Those that did have even the slightest bit of success in that regard, transformed them into an entity that was boring as hell to watch play and who had only mediocre success in advancing anywhere in the division.

    I have all the faith in the world that Pete and John are fully capable of getting the Seahawks back on track and leaders of their division, this year and not next. I recently hear these mutterings about how they are building a 2019 contender because they trimmed some of the fat to make this whole rebuild work. God knows I love Michael Bennett and Richard Sherman, and Sheldon Richardson and I hated to see them go anywhere, but reality is that Richard hasn't been able to be Richard for nearly two seasons now and I can pretty much guarantee you that had the Seahawks medical team been more optimistic about Richards recovery and ability to play at anywhere near where he was able to play previously, that he would still be a Seahawk.

    Mike Bennett,was battling injuries the past two seasons as well, and was in pretty rough shape by the end of last season. As much as we love Mike, we were all asking ourselves how much he had left in the tank. Sheldon was a keeper, but he priced himself out of our market, by asking for too much, and while we tried the best we could to compete for him, his willingness to walk and sign with someone else said a whole bunch to me about his commitment to the hawks. I also hated to see Paul Richardson go, but like so many others on our roster, who were big assets to us, he was looking for more than we could part with and do what has to be done.

    Jimmy Graham was set to go somewhere else, he played hard and much respect to him for all his efforts, but he really struggled to fit into our offense and again wanted more than what we were willing or able to pay him for his services. Jimmy will be happier and a better fit at Green Bay I think, at least until he discovers what the definition of freezing your ass off really means.

    We have picked up some super talents in the Free Agency, and in Pete Carroll and John Schneider's tradition, they have brought in some serious sleepers that in my humble opinion, are perfect fits for the Seahawks and will put up numbers that far surpass what we would have gotten from Richard, Mike, Paul, Jimmy, Sheldon and some of the others that we have had to part company with.

    We did good for ourselves in positioning for the Draft and will undoubtedly pickup some super stars this year from there. If they get a 1st and a 3rd for Earl Thomas III, and lose that cap hit, I would be okay with that too. Earl quickly forgot that the 12 had his back solid when he broke his leg and had to set out a season, and then came back and offered him more money than he could get anywhere in the league, he runs down the exit tunnel in Dallas, trying to cut a deal and abandon us at the end of last season. I'm not convinced his heart is in Seattle or with the hawks and I'm afraid that his play will likely reflect that this season, if we don't work a deal to send him home to Texas.

    I think, in summary, that we all lost sight of the fact that John and Pete were surely put on notice right along with all the players and other coaches at the end of 2017-2018 season. They have a very short window of opportunity to try and turn this thing around and put the Seahawks back on the map in a serious way, or they are shopping for new homes as well. A lot of tough choices are having to be made and I assure you that they are hurting personally over the choices they are having to make as much or more than the coaches, players and fans are.

    I think when we look back at the end of this upcoming season we will see that they made choices that benefited everyone involved and affected. Richard was a prime example, where John was working overtime trying to advise Him on negotiating his contract with the 49'rs. Richard was looking at it from an angle of trying to get John and Pete to offer him what the 49rs were as an alternative, where John was just trying to help Sherm not screw himself too bad in cutting a deal, which in my opinion he ended up doing anyway.

    Eventually the Pete Carroll and John Schneider era will come to an end, but I still see another Super Bowl Championship left in their bag of tricks. We are at exactly the same place now that we were when they came to the Emerald City, and most didn’t think they would last or make a real difference back then either. I say don’t blink, the magic show is just about to begin part duo!

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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:17 am
  • pacific101 wrote:I have all the faith in the world that Pete and John are fully capable of getting the Seahawks back on track and leaders of their division, this year and not next.


    I'm interested in hearing how you think this is possible.

    they have brought in some serious sleepers that in my humble opinion, are perfect fits for the Seahawks and will put up numbers that far surpass what we would have gotten from Richard, Mike, Paul, Jimmy, Sheldon and some of the others that we have had to part company with.


    Wow.

    We did good for ourselves in positioning for the Draft and will undoubtedly pickup some super stars this year from there.


    We have one pick in the first three rounds. We are in a horrible position right now and the FO hasent drafted a super star in years.

    We are at exactly the same place now that we were when they came to the Emerald City,


    No we're not. Not even close. We dont have near the draft picks, Pete has been away from the college game for years now and doesnt have first hand experience with the kids being drafted, and the biggest difference,,,,,,no Scot McCloughan.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:15 am
  • How is it possible? They already did it after the crap they were left with from Mora(n). They can do it again.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:43 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:How is it possible? They already did it after the crap they were left with from Mora(n). They can do it again.


    This year? I'll believe it when I see it.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:35 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:How is it possible? They already did it after the crap they were left with from Mora(n). They can do it again.


    Of course, they can do it again. However, the odds are difficult, at best. Most every other team in the NFL is always trying to do the same thing. Sort through the usual dustbins (UDFA, other teams’ castoffs, CFL), low level free agency and the draft. This is hardly rocket science or a revelation. The Seahawks struck gold once. Other teams, like the Browns or Bengals, eh, not so much. I’d also suggest that most teams do it over a period of years, instead of 6 months.

    If you count Avril and Kam, there will now be 11 2017 players, for sure, that will be gone. That’s 20%+ of the roster. There are most likely at least another 5 that look to be gone (Walsh, Aboushi, Joeckel (already gone?), Rawls, Lacy). Then there's ET. Finally, you can bet the ranch that there will be at least 5 more beyond that, if not many more, by 9/1/18. So, you can quibble with the numbers but at a minimum, I’ll guess that in total, there will be at least 20 new players, or about 40% of the roster. 50% is easily within reach. I’d call that a rebuild. Not sure why that term bothers so many of you but it’s right there.

    I did a little digging, trying to find out what has been written in the past, about NFL turnover.

    This is an article written in 2010 by Mike Sando. At that time, the Seahawks were lowest in the league, for a retention rate. It was 66.1%. The Vikings were the highest, at 94.4%. The average retention rate was 79.4%. The periods which were compared were May 2010 (apparently, just before article was written) vs. week 17, 2009.

    http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_ ... n-turnover

    There are plenty of other articles but most look at periods longer than just one year.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:03 am
  • Seahawks fan tell I die!

    They made the changes they needed to.

    Time to buy in again! I believe!
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
  • If you have ever driven past one of those billboards by a Casino, the one where they show an aging band playing but you notice that have the members of the band have been switched out for other guys?

    That is what this feels like.

    Keep the name/brand but change what you can to reduce cost.

    First, we stripped salary. We have no choice if we want to keep Wilson because he is going to cost 30M a year or something equally stupid.

    But we are not rebuilding. That would require tearing it all down and starting from scratch.

    We are not even retooling in the classic sense, because while we are filling holes - this does not look like a 3-4 year plan to get us back on top.

    This seems more like keep what you can, strip out the salary and put just as much product on the field as you can so that you can keep extracting dollars from fans' wallets. We probably are shooting for that wildcard, if that.

    Maybe Carroll can turn it around, but it is going to be difficult to expect that when Carroll is the very reason for the underperformance in the first place. If Carroll and JS get credit for the rapid rise, then they have to own that slow decline over 4 + years as well. And being okay with the duck and chuck offense that was borderline unwatchable, while grinding our defensive starters into dust is a lot of why this team is where it is now. That part is easily on Carroll.

    So if he is the cause, not sure how he can be the savior too. But you never know.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:18 am
  • Odds are difficult, but it's possible. I choose to believe. They just don't have the benefit of the low $ contracts of Russ and the rest of the star players they had back then. But I'm not gonna' assume the worst, not my style. I'd rather believe and be wrong than be doom and gloom and be right. Waste of energy to be so negative. To each his/her own. I do expect they miss the playoffs in 2018, but I think they'll be much better in 2019.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:37 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Odds are difficult, but it's possible. I choose to believe. They just don't have the benefit of the low $ contracts of Russ and the rest of the star players they had back then. But I'm not gonna' assume the worst, not my style. I'd rather believe and be wrong than be doom and gloom and be right. Waste of energy to be so negative. To each his/her own. I do expect they miss the playoffs in 2018, but I think they'll be much better in 2019.


    What is really comical, is how there are those who want to throw shade on those who have pointed out the substantial challenges the Hawks are facing. It’s like someone stole their dog or something.

    No one is being overly negative, wasting energy or abandoning the Seahawks. We are simply discussing the reality of some extraordinary changes to the team that we know so well. It can be called a rebuild, reload, retool, whatever anyone wants, since that seems to ruffle feathers. However, with a one year retention rate that is going to be somewhere between 50-60%, there is going to be a big mountain to climb.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:09 am
  • Look at it how you want. I prefer being positive, and I know the team has a LOT of work to do. We all look at it our own way. Assuming the worse, meh. And nobody is being overly negative? That's what's comical. There are plenty who flat out HATE every....single....move this team makes. It's entertaining.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:22 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Look at it how you want. I prefer being positive, and I know the team has a LOT of work to do. We all look at it our own way. Assuming the worse, meh. And nobody is being overly negative? That's what's comical. There are plenty who flat out HATE every....single....move this team makes. It's entertaining.


    No, I don’t think that is the case at all. Most people understand what is happening and why. They also realize the likely impact but still hope for the best. Those two ideas are not mutually exclusive, even though that seems to be the prevailing counter argument.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:04 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Look at it how you want. I prefer being positive, and I know the team has a LOT of work to do. We all look at it our own way. Assuming the worse, meh. And nobody is being overly negative? That's what's comical. There are plenty who flat out HATE every....single....move this team makes. It's entertaining.


    With me it's not so much these recent moves in a vaccuum, it's the short sighted long range mentality that I've hated.

    I was happy about both the Sheldon and Brown moves last year, but that came with the caveat that we keep these guys long term, because we gave up valuable picks and cap space.

    So in the moment? Yeah, good moves. But overall not good moves so far, because the player is gone, and so are the picks.

    I really don't have much of an opinion on this year's FA moves. These dudes are 3rd tier placeholders for 2018 until John can restock picks and get the cap under control for 2019 and beyond. Ain't no one should be excited about Dickson, Fluker and a CB that the Browns didn't even want.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:18 am
  • Largent brings up a challenge that seems to be the result of a really weird issue that almost deserves its own thread now. Bad FA decisions.

    What the HELL happened to JS?

    I get the draft picks thing. He isn't hitting on draft picks at the same rate since McLoughlan left, and since Scott has a history of doing almost as well in other places - that makes sense. You can give the draft pick success to Scott and when he left the success rate plummeted.

    But this is the guy that also brought in Marshawn Lynch, Avril and Michael Bennett. He was very good at bringing in FAs that would be a good fit and literally made the difference. Without Lynch, no SB. Without Avril and Bennett, probably no 2nd SB. These were huge moves that were made a massive difference in the success of the team.

    Then? A string of FA flops. Not even bad runs but literally awful choices that you could tell would fail just looking at them at the time they were made.

    Cary Williams ? Why bring in an underperforming DB and then pay him big dollars to underperform here?

    Harvin? Why even think about bringing in a player that literally was a problem everywhere he went? Wasn't half of what Harvin even did what Golden Tate was doing very well for us already? Why make this move?

    Graham? In a team based on running the ball and smashmouth football, is a finesse TE that does not block a fit at all? And what about gutting the line to get him?

    I could go on, but this is not things reverting to the mean but instead almost seeming like a different guy. We went from a very capable and shrewdly successful master of the FA markets to a guy that seems to make horrendous disasterous moves every time he ventures into FA with more than a mid-level player. Not to mention that the FA moves we made to lose people seemed to hurt us just as badly.

    What the hell happened? Did we have some key person doing FA that we no longer have? How did JS go from being so good at working FA to one of the worse in the league a few years later?
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:36 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:
    What the HELL happened to JS?


    I think there's a couple things going on.

    1. Desperation. Teams that know their window is closing quickly make desperate moves. Both Pete and John have pretty much admitted as much last year, and this off season that the moves last year were to "go for it" with that group of players. It's been only compounded with some terrible recent drafts.

    2. John knows that his time here is short, at least with Pete. So unlike other years where he's had more self control when it's come to trades and free agents, he knew that the 2017 Hawks with Pete, the injuries sustained and lack of quality depth all over the place meant that if he wanted to make a run, he'd have to mortgage 2018 with risky cap moves and losing picks.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 am
  • Maybe.

    But that overlooks that a lot of the reason for the desperation was caused by bad moves by JS.

    Harvin drove away Tate (just in salary issues), he also drove Kam to holdout (him and that crappy Eagles CB)

    Graham destroyed our run game. Not by not blocking but by removing our freaking center who was doing just fine. Sure Britt covered for him but it was never the same.

    God knows how many draft picks we gave away in the FA pickups that we blew.

    But the key moment I knew JS was over his head was the last draft. We knew we needed guys to backup Kam and Earl. We went into the draft knowing it was one of the best DB drafts in ages. Budda Baker was sitting there as a perfect replacement for Earl if he got hurt or when the contract talks got sticky. And we picked a ...... worthless DT, when DT was not even a need. Crappy average runstop DTs are a dime a dozen, and easy to draft in later rounds.

    Meanwhile AZ got Baker, he makes a Pro Bowl, and his play shows the team that they can release Honey Badger.

    I would have had a hard time with us picking a OL but a DT? In the last draft? When DL talent wasn't even thick that draft? Why?

    It showed me, JS cannot plan, cannot draft and is trying to fill holes with moves that frankly are the result of bad moves by him earlier.

    So where the hell is the guy that found Lynch, Avril and Bennett? Because clearly that was not JS, nobody goes from that smart to that stupid overnight.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:53 am
  • Holmgren's era was over because he knew he was going to take that sabbatical, which he knew meant he wouldn't be coaching the Seahawks anymore, and likely would probably never coach again. So he coasted his last couple seasons with the team and put no effort into building a good team. Lazy ass collected his paychecks and then was gone.

    It's the biggest reason I don't like Holmgren. Before that, I was okay with him, but never thought he was anything special as far as NFL coaches go. But he screwed over his players, the organization, and the fans when he decided to just ride out his paychecks and then give up.

    "I'm taking a sabbatical" lol....who the hell does that? People who don't like their job, that's who. Pete Carroll likes his job. He wants to win. At least, that's my hope. He is getting up there with age. But I don't see the same quit in him like we all saw with Holmgren. That doesn't mean Pete will get us back to the Super bowl, though.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:06 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Maybe.

    But that overlooks that a lot of the reason for the desperation was caused by bad moves by JS.

    Harvin drove away Tate (just in salary issues), he also drove Kam to holdout (him and that crappy Eagles CB)

    Graham destroyed our run game. Not by not blocking but by removing our freaking center who was doing just fine. Sure Britt covered for him but it was never the same.

    God knows how many draft picks we gave away in the FA pickups that we blew.

    But the key moment I knew JS was over his head was the last draft. We knew we needed guys to backup Kam and Earl. We went into the draft knowing it was one of the best DB drafts in ages. Budda Baker was sitting there as a perfect replacement for Earl if he got hurt or when the contract talks got sticky. And we picked a ...... worthless DT, when DT was not even a need. Crappy average runstop DTs are a dime a dozen, and easy to draft in later rounds.

    Meanwhile AZ got Baker, he makes a Pro Bowl, and his play shows the team that they can release Honey Badger.

    I would have had a hard time with us picking a OL but a DT? In the last draft? When DL talent wasn't even thick that draft? Why?

    It showed me, JS cannot plan, cannot draft and is trying to fill holes with moves that frankly are the result of bad moves by him earlier.

    So where the hell is the guy that found Lynch, Avril and Bennett? Because clearly that was not JS, nobody goes from that smart to that stupid overnight.


    JS is garbage. The good drafts and FA signing's came during Scot McCloughan tenure. The moves JS has made in FA and in the draft the last 3 years has sent the Hawks back into the stone age.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:56 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:
    What the HELL happened to JS?


    I think there's a couple things going on.

    1. Desperation. Teams that know their window is closing quickly make desperate moves. Both Pete and John have pretty much admitted as much last year, and this off season that the moves last year were to "go for it" with that group of players. It's been only compounded with some terrible recent drafts.

    2. John knows that his time here is short, at least with Pete. So unlike other years where he's had more self control when it's come to trades and free agents, he knew that the 2017 Hawks with Pete, the injuries sustained and lack of quality depth all over the place meant that if he wanted to make a run, he'd have to mortgage 2018 with risky cap moves and losing picks.


    This is one of the things that aggravates me about the FO. My problem is that the FO clearly made moves that were desperate. And to me that was terrible vision. I never believed that Sheldon Richardson or Duane Brown was ever going to catapult us to the SB. But they could be pieces to a SB win if we built around them. The prior two years we were defeated soundly in the 2 divisional rounds after playing 2 cupcakes in the wildcard round (at home). Signs we were no longer the LOB, or otherwise bad boys of the NFC, were there and obvious. After Atlanta, we should have realized we need a running game to win the SB and need to replace the aging secondary, and therefore needed OL and DBs. As TwistedHusky pointed out, instead we drafted an underwhelming DT in a CB rich draft. We bet the farm on a squad that quite frankly was never more than an 10-11 win team. You don't win a SB with the OL we had last year and a running back by committee, so therefore, betting the farm was stupid.

    Additionally, now that we bet the farm, and we have further gutted our team, how could we possibly not be in rebuild mode? The FO swung for the fences and missed badly. So far the response the FO has made still smacks of desperation. We sign 2013 busts, which to me suggests the FO is still in desperation mode. We are signing 2013 busts because the FO is hoping for a quick fix since they do not have much time. Mingo and Dickson are warm bodies at best. Fluker has a chance to be serviceable but is not a difference maker. These are all guys that sound good, and we can extract self-serving optimism from, but they are 2013 busts for a reason.

    The problem here is we need a complete new makeup on coaching and bring in guys who have the benefit of time to perform an actual successful rebuild, or bring back Scot M. so we can mimic what was done years ago. Instead we keep drafting guys who are "never were's" and hope they becomes what they were expected to be in the 2013 draft. We need to develop a vision long-term and I don't see anything that provides any comfort in that regard.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 pm
  • Well if we crash and burn I really hope they re-hire Scot as the next GM.
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Re: The Pete Carroll era is over
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:52 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:Semihoo already said the exact same thing 2 years ago..Everything ends including us at some point.


    True. Almost everything I was told and then leaked here has come to pass.

    I would love for Pete to have one more run at a SB during whatever time he has left in Seattle but that isn't likely.

    There's always hope though.

    Go Hawks!

    I'm not happy that you turned out right for the most part but I'll eat the crow
    when I was one of people who went against it back then.


    I appreciate that. I wish the all the stuff said to be going on weren't but it all comes from "in the room" observation. It's a big organization - lots of eyes and ears. I'm sure others have people in the know on this and other forums.

    The team has been a mess internally for a while now. Each season has been duct tape and a prayer approach.

    We'll see if Pete can pull a rabbit out of his...hat this next season but it's steep odds against that happening.

    I think PA genuinely likes Pete but eventually business is business and Pete will be gone like all the rest.
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