Seahawks Haven't Recovered From "The Play"

SoulfishHawk":1pype290 said:

No, the FANS haven't recovered from it :roll:

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My point exactly.
There's a plethora of fans that would be only too glad to resurrect that dead horse, and hand you a baseball bat, or tire iron.
Ray Lewis ain't exactly no Dr. Phil.

Aros":2xqp72c8 said:

I was watching Inside The NFL last night and Ray Lewis made a comment about how the Seahawks have never been the same since that fateful final play in XLIX. I've flirted with the notion since then but when he said it it really hit me.

"He's right."

Now I know "The Play" has been discussed ad nauseum here (insert beating dead horse image here) so the point of this thread isn't to rehash that, but I wanted to talk about the fallout. This isn't about the unfortunate series of events that occur over any given season that happens to all teams (i.e. injuries) but how something as profound as "The Play" can have an impact on a dominant franchise 1-yard away from a potential dynasty.

When that EPSN article came out during the offseason, I largely dismissed it as did the players. After all, the goal for any writer is to get clicks or reads. Sensationalism, hyperbole and "Truth-stretching" are often the norm, especially in the world of sports journalism driven by readership.

However, where there's smoke there's always some kind of fire. The Seahawks were built on the foundation of finding scrappy, late round players with a giant chip on their shoulders. Pete has always celebrated individuality (within the confines of the culture concept) and at times it has proven problematic (i.e. player explosions on the sidelines).

I was hoping this team had the character and determination to move beyond the travesty of that final play in XLIX. Now I feel sadly that they do not. As optimistic as I tend to be, I think I have to face the fact that this Championship-Caliber Era has come to an end and we are witnessing the sights and sounds of inevitability right before our eyes.

With Russell Wilson and many of our current players and culture I will always have hope, but I have to finally admit, the window - if not closed - is barely letting any light in anymore.

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oh bs. Quit trippin. If our d is even half healthy, and Wilson is suited up, this team could run the table any place any time all through the playoffs. "The Play broke our spirit" is just easy click-bait. There is no evidence of this whatsoever. (P.S. Your avatar (go Hawks, indeed) sure makes it hard to concentrate on your posts (accident??))

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

SoulfishHawk":3ez5ex18 said:

No, the FANS haven't recovered from it :roll:

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I’m guilty.

The weird thing for me as a fan is that not winning that Super Bowl makes our eventual decline that much harder for me. It would be easier to watch some of these games we used to win and see players transition out of their prime if I had that “back to back” rack to hang my hat on.

It’s hard as a fan to literally give a championship away, I can’t imagine as a player considering the blood, sweat, and tears invested. It takes the stars aligning to just win any Suoer Bowl, to be on the precipice of two in a row is something truly a special. We could have been one of the best teams ever, now we are known more for giving away a Suoer Bowl than for winning one. Freaking sucks.

Have the FANS recovered? Probably not.

However, should the Hawks lose the next two games. Sh*t will hit the fan on Seahawks.net for the next four months!!!

907Hawk":19p9wxty said:

getnasty":19p9wxty said:

Why are not got over It? Because we haven't won't another Superbowl since? We all act like it's so easy to win a Superbowl, that's not the case it's incredibly tough and takes many things breaking your way to happen. Does anyone really think Michael Bennett is walking around lertting that game affect what he's doing today?

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Maybe the Dolphins still haven't recovered from the "Sea of Hands" in 1974.

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The Browns are still recovering from Earnest Byner's fumble.

The window is open my friend, we are reloading on the fly lot of young talent on this team injuries have nothing to do with the play .Just the fact that we are still in it shows our depth and bright future.we are one solid running back away from a dominant offense imo

I think that's the case, at least on some level. Hell, we talk all the time about how the 49ers haven't recovered from "The Tip". This is no different, but on an even bigger stage and scale. It's the dynasty they were so close to grasping that is the issue. In the back of people's minds, both the coaching and leadership players. That's the issue. And it won't be completely over until we either have an entire regime change, or something spectacular happens to eclipse it, such as "The Beastquake".

My two cents.

What a load of crap. Seattle's problem is lack of talent on Offense pure and simple. We have one legit star in Wilson who isn't perfect and a couple of occasional pro bowlers in Baldwin and Graham that just isn't good enough. Injuries lets not overlook that and finally the refs. These are the reasons we probably miss the playoffs and will not win the superbowl anytime soon.

Aros, I followed you over from the scout days, and there isn’t a poster on the board that I respect more than you. Rarely do I disagree with your thoughts or premises, but this time you’re just plain wrong.

Dynasties, windows, undefeated seasons, are talking points for sportscasters, fans, and forum boards. Football players, front offices, coaches and (in their heart of hearts) even fans know, no matter how hard you try, how hard you train, how hard you strive to reach perfection, or how hard you wish for it, you’ll never ever win every play, every gamble, or every game. Out of the millions of things that have to go right, there needs to be only one that goes wrong to ruin a play, a game or a season.

If Kaepernick throws a little higher or Smith isn’t in just the right place, perhaps “The Tip” doesn’t happen and the Seahawks never get the opportunity to win their first SB or without the miracle comeback against the Packers they never play in their third. What if they completed another miracle comeback against Carolina or Hasselbeck doesn't throw that interception in overtime or Gonzalez doesn’t catch that 20 yard pass with 13 seconds left, or, or, or.

Whether any or all or some of these things happened, or didn’t, it will not change anything for the next play, game, or season. There will be great plays and missed opportunities, plays that work and plays that are just out of reach and it all boils down to that. As a player, team, or coach if you make more plays than the next guy you win more games, if you win more games than the next guy, you win more championships.

But the ONLY “Play” that makes a difference is the next one. That’s why, as fans, we swing from elation to heartbreak on every great play or missed opportunity and that’s why we watch the game. Anything less would be Fantasy Football.




(I’ll apologize in advance to all those who believe fantasy football is just like real football. It’s not. )

They haven't recovered from it.... because they haven't removed the tumor that caused it.

Thanks FidelisHawk, I can respect that. I knew this would stir the pot when I posted and there's been plenty of strong counters to my opinion but it hasn't changed any. I am not without understanding what it takes for any team to be successful in every play and every game of every season. I know as well as anyone how the game of football is truly one of inches, preperation and lots of luck for everything to go their way. There are endless moving parts in any given play that can be the difference in success or failure.

Pete Carroll is loyal at times to a fault, especially his coaches. I will go to my grave knowing deep in my heart that Bevell was the reason for that play call and Carroll - wanting to protect his friend - did what any noble coach would do in that position and take the sword himself. In doing so not only did he undermine and insult the intelligence of his players that had put everything on the line to be back-to-back champions, but he fractured what was the tightest locker room in all of football by placing mistrust in the center of it.

Suddenly there was room for questions (whether verbalized openly or not) such as "Did they not hand it off to Lynch so Wilson could be the MVP?" Just the thought of that, however fleeting, further created cracks in what was otherwise the most formidable dam in all of football.

So yes, only X amount of players are still on the roster from that game. Yes, it's easy to blame player/coach/scheme ineptitude for why we lose games and seasons, but that's all compartmentalized analysis. I am not bothering with that. I am focusing on the cancer that has absorbed this franchise since that play that it appears most fans want to dismiss. That's perfectly fine with me but I know in my heart until that cancer is removed from the body of this franchise, true healing will never happen in this Pete Carroll Era.

Aros":3burx4gg said:

RussB":3burx4gg said:

I dont think some are getting what Aros means. They are probably over the play, they just arent over the fact that they basically threw away a dynasty. And every season since they keep trying to get back to that point and its just not happening. They were probably fired up the next season to get back to the superbowl with the talent they have, and it didnt happen. Then another season they get knocked out of the playoffs again. Now they are decimated by injuries and its becoming to look like they will never get that second chance again.

They were right there and could have been back to back champions now they cant even get past the divisional. Basically wasted potential.

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Thank you. Somebody gets me.

These are proud warriors who know Father Time is stopping for nobody. The window is all but closed and this is supposed to be the top of many of their careers. Russ is still plenty young enough but some of these other warriors their time is just about up or closing fast. What could have been. What should have been. For anyone to think that the fallout of XLIX has not been a factor for this franchise TO THIS VERY DAY has not been paying as much attention as they think.

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I don't think it plays a factor in how good the team is nowadays.
Does it have an effect on the whole SB roster and staff? Yes, it will always be part of their memories and always be something they might think about and feel sad about. They will never truly overcome it since it is impossible to truly overcome (it's in the past). The closest thing would probably be to win back to back SBs now, but even then one could think about how even greater it would have been if we would have won back to back SBs two times.

It all depends on what you focus on, you can enjoy life, live in the now and think about the positives, or think about the negative things. Devin Hester and Megatron could spend all their time thinking about never winning a Superbowl or they could think about the rest of their legendary careers. The same goes for you all...

I don't think our players let this lost SB define them, meaning they don't think about it too much and don't play worse because of it. Do you really believe our players/team would be better now if we would have won the Superbowl? I don't believe so.
Would they be better if we would have fired Bevell after the SB? Maybe, but mainly because we would have a better OC now and not because of a lesser SB hangover. A lot of things could have had an effect and could have made the team completely different (i.e. butterfly effect) but there is no actual evidence that we would be a better team now or the years following the SB if we would have won it.

I would love to keep the veterans on our team if they're willing to take a paycut. I think that would make us an amazing team. The Legion of Boom and the Legion of Baby Boomers. That'd be awesome

That said, of course they're still heartbroken over that play. If Russell & Pete get another ring I'll think "Welp, it could have been 3." And if he gets 2 more I'll say "Welp, it could have been 4"

That said, to me it was just a really amazing play by Malcolm Butler. We can whine and cry over it and play MMQB. And rightfully so. Maybe Beast Mode gets in, maybe a bootleg with Russell gets it. But at the end of the day, Malcolm Butler made a PERFFECCTTT play. If he's even 0.02 seconds slower, I don't think he makes that interception. That's how I will always see it. The throw wasn't bad, the play wasn't terrible. Butler just sniffed it out IMMEDIATELY.

Also doesn't help that Lockette was too "relaxed" to the ball and Kearse couldn't handle Browner. Where's Larry Fitzgerald or Julio when you need em. They'd make that play happen

Aros":2narlym2 said:

Thanks FidelisHawk, I can respect that. I knew this would stir the pot when I posted and there's been plenty of strong counters to my opinion but it hasn't changed any. I am not without understanding what it takes for any team to be successful in every play and every game of every season. I know as well as anyone how the game of football is truly one of inches, preperation and lots of luck for everything to go their way. There are endless moving parts in any given play that can be the difference in success or failure.

Pete Carroll is loyal at times to a fault, especially his coaches. I will go to my grave knowing deep in my heart that Bevell was the reason for that play call and Carroll - wanting to protect his friend - did what any noble coach would do in that position and take the sword himself. In doing so not only did he undermine and insult the intelligence of his players that had put everything on the line to be back-to-back champions, but he fractured what was the tightest locker room in all of football by placing mistrust in the center of it.

Suddenly there was room for questions (whether verbalized openly or not) such as "Did they not hand it off to Lynch so Wilson could be the MVP?" Just the thought of that, however fleeting, further created cracks in what was otherwise the most formidable dam in all of football.

So yes, only X amount of players are still on the roster from that game. Yes, it's easy to blame player/coach/scheme ineptitude for why we lose games and seasons, but that's all compartmentalized analysis. I am not bothering with that. I am focusing on the cancer that has absorbed this franchise since that play that it appears most fans want to dismiss. That's perfectly fine with me but I know in my heart until that cancer is removed from the body of this franchise, true healing will never happen in this Pete Carroll Era.

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Well, contrary to my post count, I’ve debated issues, thoughts and opinions enough to know that no matter how hard or loudly I express my thoughts and opinions, I’ll never change yours (or anybody else's for that matter).

I have my own thoughts on the wisdom of changing coaches, coordinators, or positions coaches and the success, failure, or lack of change that happens afterward (and maybe I’ll put them to pen someday).

Suffice it to say, I don’t fall into the “everything that’s wrong with the Seahawks offense is Bevell’s fault” camp nor do I believe a change for change’s sake would drastically alter their fortunes, but I’ve been around the block enough to realize I’m not all seeing or all knowing. If another fan believes that, so be it.

The point I had hoped to make was, IF a player (or a coach for that matter) is obsessed or is haunted by a single play, for any longer than it takes to line up for the next one, he’s doomed to failure. I just don’t believe a single player, besides maybe Lockette or Butler, give “The Play” more than a cursory thought, if asked.

So, while I can understand why fans, sportscasters, and forum boards may be infatuated with the possibility that “The Play” changed the course of Seahawk fortunes forever more, I reject that mindset and therefore the premise of your post. I simply believe winning consistently is much harder than most fans care to believe and winning a Super Bowl is even harder still.

And one “Play” doesn’t define a franchise in anyone’s mind except a few fans, sportscasters, and forum board posters.



Feel free to disagree, we are fans, on a forum board, posting

Hmm, FidelisHawk reading the tone of your post it sounds like you thought my post was aimed at you personally. It was not. In fact, I rather enjoyed your post and found it well thought out. Unfortunately it appears that this is one of those threads where nobody seems to be getting their point across accurately and fully. I agree with much of the "rebuttals" so we are all more on the same page than we think here.

This is a multifaceted issue, not one that can be pinpointed at one thing, and yes that includes "The Play". I feel that my point has been lost in this thread and that's too bad, but after all it is just a fan forum with fans offering their opinions, and sometimes those opinions are better illustrated in person and not behind a keyboard where so much is left open to interpretation.

Aros":2oqjgux4 said:

Hmm, FidelisHawk reading the tone of your post it sounds like you thought my post was aimed at you personally. It was not. In fact, I rather enjoyed your post and found it well thought out. Unfortunately it appears that this is one of those threads where nobody seems to be getting their point across accurately and fully. I agree with much of the "rebuttals" so we are all more on the same page than we think here.

This is a multifaceted issue, not one that can be pinpointed at one thing, and yes that includes "The Play". I feel that my point has been lost in this thread and that's too bad, but after all it is just a fan forum with fans offering their opinions, and sometimes those opinions are better illustrated in person and not behind a keyboard where so much is left open to interpretation.

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My thoughts and comments were intended for the entire board, I quoted you because you were the original poster, I consider you an old friend (whom I’ve never met) and you said my name. Furthermore had you been directing your comments to me, personally, I would be honored and not besmirched, so there’s nothing to apologize for, quite the contrary.

I believe I do get your point/points, and other posters as well, in no particular order let me try to summarize, as I see the tone of it:
“The Play”,

Bevell called “The Play”,
I agree, with a caveat, Pete knew it and okayed it.

“The Play” was a bad call,
I disagree, it’s been debated over and over and doing so again would take more time than this post needs. Let me just say, I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome.

“The Play” was such a bad call and handled so poorly, Bevell should’ve been fired.
I disagree, again I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome. Could it have been handled differently sure, should he have been fired because of it, no.
(now is he a subpar OC and should be fired, I’m neutral and have reasons that are both for and against, maybe another day)

“The Play” was called for nefarious reasons,
I disagree and don’t believe you think so either.

“The Play” split the locker room offense against defense,
I disagree, as I posted earlier if players a worried about a single play that happens two plays ago, two games ago or two years ago then they will never be able to play the game the way they should. That’s the premise I wholeheartedly dismiss and disagree with.

“The Play” ended any chance to for this team to be considered a dynasty,
I disagree, dynasties are determined after the fact, only history and/or popular opinion can, or will, make that determination, but continuing to win will go a long way in helping and I believe as long as Russell can play, this team can win.

“The Play” will forever define the Carroll era,
I disagree, two lucky catches that cost two Super Bowls certainly didn’t define the Belichick era, winning games, getting there, and winning did. I believe Pete and this team have more wins ahead them contrary to the, seemingly, current popular opinion.

“The Play” was this team’s high water mark and their window is rapidly closing,
I disagree, call me an optimist if you must, but great teams have similar things in common. A good owner, check. A good front office, check. A good coach, check. A good quarterback, check.

“The Play” will always be a dark cloud over everything they do from here on out,
I not only disagree, I’d hope nobody would ever pin their fandom on such a petty concept, but if you/they want to, okay, I choose to walk in the sunshine, after all, I’m an optimist.

So did I miss any points? Did I not follow the line of thought behind the original post? Should I’ve not tried to boil it down to the simple concept that “The Play” (as in the original post) has nothing to do with the present, or the future, only the past, and the only “Play” that matters is the next one?

Well, now that I went and got way too pointed and way too long, feel free to strike me off my soapbox.

I probably should have just said, “I disagree” in the first place, but it has been fun talking to my old friend

The only windows that are closing are Avril's, Kams, Sherms, and Bennetts. Ours remains open if they can start hitting more early pics unlike the last few.

olyfan63":kcbsvyhf said:

This is just silly. Of course you don't "recover from" "The Play". Players and coaches just set it aside, forget about it, use it as extra motivation, or whatever, and MOVE ON.

As someone pointed out, we're several years removed and only about 20% of the players who were in SB49 are still on the team. Yes, most of the coaching staff, so they would be the only ones potentially affected.

The real issue is poor drafts and especially the ongoing crappy offensive line. Another huge issue is the rest of the NFL developing a better "book" on the Seahawks, like largely neutralizing the Read-Option, figuring out ways to attack the Pete Carroll defense, etc., and the Seahawks not reacting and adapting as quickly as they need to, being too stubborn about "imposing their will" rather than matching up to each opponent to exploit strengths and weaknesses.

The NFL is a brutally competitive business. Pete & Co have all they can do each week to game plan for the upcoming opponent, prepare the players, analyze matchups, etc.

If Malcolm Butler stumbles and Lockette catches the game winner, I don't think very much is different right now, other than the Seahawks have two Lombardis in the case, and some media storylines change. For example, that 2013-2014 Seahawks defense gets regularly brought up as one of the all-time great defenses, and Brady gets labeled as a choker in the big games, instead of all the knob slobbering that occurred. (Brady gets his redemption from the SB comeback vs. the Falcons)

"The Play" is a non-factor with today's Seahawks team. Poor drafts, injuries, boneheaded coaching at times/failure to adjust and learn, and an all-time crappy O-Line are all real factors, among others.

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This. The coaches have shown that lack of adaptability is their weakness, and if anything, a second title would have just made them even more complacent and hastened the decline. The poor drafts are the real reason behind the decline and we've been drafting poorly since before "The Play."

Seymour":17dnmfjy said:

The only windows that are closing are Avril's, Kams, Sherms, and Bennetts. Ours remains open if they can start hitting more early pics unlike the last few.

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I would certainly agree with Avril given his age and type of injury.

I still hold out hope for Kam and Bennett, or at the very least, I’m not ready to say the they’re so past their prime or so injury prone as to be a detriment.

Sherman on the other hand has never had an injury that keep him from a game day start and doesn’t rely on superior speed as the major advantage to his technique. Even hurt, he still played at an elite level. I think he still has two, three, maybe more, left on a newly recovered wheel. Even if he was only 90% or less, he’d still be as good, or better, than half the league’s starting Corners.

Fidelishawk, you certainly detailed in specifics many of the thoughts I've had on The Play with your excellent posts in this thread. I enjoyed reading your breakdown.

It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.

It's losing organizations like the Browns that would be fractured by a loss like that and would respond by making petty personnel moves. That's exactly what losers do.

Pete and John understand the bigger picture and have made this the golden era in franchise history.