Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers

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Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Mon May 12, 2014 11:15 pm
  • 2014 Draft NFC West Approximations & Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers

    Check it out! As usual the national media is giving the Forty Whiners A+’s, and us C-‘s.

    But… considering many of the ignoramus’ (ignorami?) still think we picked Antonio ‘Tiny’ Richardson…

    You make the call… apples to apples it looks to me that its leaning our way.
    Throw in their 3 oranges, and it may or may not even up the gap a little.

    However,
    Add in our own ‘original 7th round selection’ vs. say, Blaine Gabbert… and take a few moments to honestly weigh the apples to apples comparisons…

    IMO, with a 2nd look, the gap actually widens considerably in our favor, despite the threat of “Mr. Hyde”.

    9 Apples 9Apples
    --- Straight Up Head to Head Direct Comparison---
    *Kevin Pierre-Louis ------------------------------------Chris Borland
    *Cassius Marsh------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch
    *Paul Richardson----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington
    *Eric Pinkins---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson
    Justin Britt-----------------------------------------------*Marcus Martin
    Jimmy Staten--------------------Even-------------------Kaleb Ramsey (IR)
    *Garrett Scott---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (IR)
    *Kiero Small----------------------------------------------Trey Millard

    --- “Playmaker/Difference Maker” Indirect Comparison---
    Kevin Norwood-----------------Even--------------------Jimmie Ward

    +3 Oranges
    ------------------------------------------------------------***Carlos Hyde
    -------------------------------------------------------------Keith Reaser
    -------------------------------------------------------------Kenneth Acker
    Wildcard
    *Terrelle Pryor--------------------------------------------Blaine Gabbert


    Considering we started off with 6 picks + a wildcard, and they started with 12. (and a Gabbert...lol)

    John Schneider-------------------VS---------------------Trent Baalke

    I say it’s a W. :th2thumbs:
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  • kigenzun wrote:2014 Draft NFC West Approximations & Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers

    Check it out! As usual the national media is giving the Forty Whiners A+’s, and us C-‘s.

    But… considering many of the ignoramus’ (ignorami?) still think we picked Antonio ‘Tiny’ Richardson…

    You make the call… apples to apples it looks to me that its leaning our way.
    Throw in their 3 oranges, and it may or may not even up the gap a little.

    However,
    Add in our own ‘original 7th round selection’ vs. say, Blaine Gabbert… and take a few moments to honestly weigh the apples to apples comparisons…

    IMO, with a 2nd look, the gap actually widens considerably in our favor, despite the threat of “Mr. Hyde”.

    9 Apples 9Apples
    --- Straight Up Head to Head Direct Comparison---
    *Kevin Pierre-Louis ------------------------------------Chris Borland
    *Cassius Marsh------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch
    *Paul Richardson----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington
    *Eric Pinkins---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson
    Justin Britt-----------------------------------------------*Marcus Martin
    Jimmy Staten--------------------Even-------------------Kaleb Ramsey (IR)
    *Garrett Scott---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (IR)
    *Kiero Small----------------------------------------------Trey Millard

    --- “Playmaker/Difference Maker” Indirect Comparison---
    Kevin Norwood-----------------Even--------------------Jimmie Ward

    +3 Oranges
    ------------------------------------------------------------***Carlos Hyde
    -------------------------------------------------------------Keith Reaser
    -------------------------------------------------------------Kenneth Acker
    Wildcard
    *Terrelle Pryor--------------------------------------------Blaine Gabbert


    Considering we started off with 6 picks + a wildcard, and they started with 12. (and a Gabbert...lol)

    John Schneider-------------------VS---------------------Trent Baalke

    I say it’s a W. :th2thumbs:


    LOL.

    SLIGHTLY homerish there, but no worries. Not even gonna argue really.

    The reason the 49ers got such high marks is very simple...they took a number of players (Hyde, Martin, Borland, Ellington) far lower than the MEDIA had them projected. Seattle did not.

    That has absolutely nothing to do with where TEAMS may have had these guys ranked or what the actual talent level is of these players.

    BTW....if you are including Blaine Gabbert then you should also include Stevie Johnson. He was traded for a 2015 pick, but through 2 different trades they recovered that pick and Stevie essentially was obtained for a 7th round pick this year.
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  • BTW....if you are including Blaine Gabbert then you should also include Stevie Johnson. He was traded for a 2015 pick, but through 2 different trades they recovered that pick and Stevie essentially was obtained for a 7th round pick this year.


    Good point. I did forget about the Stevie Johnson trade for a conditional 4th next year, then the recoup, and it basically = a 7th this year.

    Or maybe I was so afraid of the trade that I unconsciously wanted to forget about Stevie... especially, if he somehow becomes the key missing piece to you guys puzzle... eh, Marvin? ;)

    But yeah, I'll give an extra star for that ---------------------------------------*Stevie Johnson.
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  • kigenzun wrote:2014 Draft NFC West Approximations & Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers

    Check it out! As usual the national media is giving the Forty Whiners A+’s, and us C-‘s.

    But… considering many of the ignoramus’ (ignorami?) still think we picked Antonio ‘Tiny’ Richardson…

    You make the call… apples to apples it looks to me that its leaning our way.
    Throw in their 3 oranges, and it may or may not even up the gap a little.

    However,
    Add in our own ‘original 7th round selection’ vs. say, Blaine Gabbert… and take a few moments to honestly weigh the apples to apples comparisons…

    IMO, with a 2nd look, the gap actually widens considerably in our favor, despite the threat of “Mr. Hyde”.

    9 Apples 9Apples
    --- Straight Up Head to Head Direct Comparison---
    *Kevin Pierre-Louis ------------------------------------Chris Borland
    *Cassius Marsh------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch
    *Paul Richardson----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington
    *Eric Pinkins---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson
    Justin Britt-----------------------------------------------*Marcus Martin
    Jimmy Staten--------------------Even-------------------Kaleb Ramsey (IR)
    *Garrett Scott---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (IR)
    *Kiero Small----------------------------------------------Trey Millard

    --- “Playmaker/Difference Maker” Indirect Comparison---
    Kevin Norwood-----------------Even--------------------Jimmie Ward

    +3 Oranges
    ------------------------------------------------------------***Carlos Hyde
    -------------------------------------------------------------Keith Reaser
    -------------------------------------------------------------Kenneth Acker
    Wildcard
    *Terrelle Pryor--------------------------------------------Blaine Gabbert


    Considering we started off with 6 picks + a wildcard, and they started with 12. (and a Gabbert...lol)

    John Schneider-------------------VS---------------------Trent Baalke

    I say it’s a W. :th2thumbs:


    I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

    I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

    Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

    Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

    This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

    Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

    Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

    Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

    Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

    Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

    Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

    Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


    Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


    Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

    So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

    However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.
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  • kigenzun wrote:
    BTW....if you are including Blaine Gabbert then you should also include Stevie Johnson. He was traded for a 2015 pick, but through 2 different trades they recovered that pick and Stevie essentially was obtained for a 7th round pick this year.


    Good point. I did forget about the Stevie Johnson trade for a conditional 4th next year, then the recoup, and it basically = a 7th this year.

    Or maybe I was so afraid of the trade that I unconsciously wanted to forget about Stevie... especially, if he somehow becomes the key missing piece to you guys puzzle... eh, Marvin? ;)

    But yeah, I'll give an extra star for that ---------------------------------------*Stevie Johnson.


    LOL. :)

    No worries.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Tue May 13, 2014 12:14 pm
  • i think the 49ers got way better players..

    but Seahawks have shown they can get the best out of their players.

    so, we'll see
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Tue May 13, 2014 12:43 pm
  • I am a big fan of Kevin Norwood but you just said that he equals SF's 1st round pick. Seems like your analysis is pretty biased. I wouldn't be surprised if Norwood becomes a solid pro but when you are making those claims, you need to really ask yourself if you are doing it with blue and green shades.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Tue May 13, 2014 12:49 pm
  • I think most importantly, we didn't get Gabbert. Sure fire win right there.
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  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:I think most importantly, we didn't get Gabbert. Sure fire win right there.


    ....The 49ers got Gabbert for a 6th round pick and Stevie Johnson for a 4th next year and recouped BOTH picks and STILL made 12 picks.

    Yeah. Real loser of a move there.
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  • Front7vLOB wrote:i think the 49ers got way better players..

    but Seahawks have shown they can get the best out of their players.

    so, we'll see



    JZ#1 wrote:I am a big fan of Kevin Norwood but you just said that he equals SF's 1st round pick. Seems like your analysis is pretty biased. I wouldn't be surprised if Norwood becomes a solid pro but when you are making those claims, you need to really ask yourself if you are doing it with blue and green shades.




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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

    I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

    Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

    Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

    This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

    Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

    Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

    Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

    Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

    Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

    Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

    Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


    Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


    Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

    So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

    However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.


    Did you happen to look at East coaSt suPplemental Network's programming scores? I know they would probably be impartial about yours and ours pickses. Also would like to know who picked the ratings base on NFLnetwork. Not looking for homerism or lack there of, just curious. It would mean something as to content tho.

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  • *Disingenuous is a really big word.

    I'll give another point just for that...

    But NFL network's number rating system?
    :1: Meh.

    No extra points for that bunch 'o jazz.
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  • I am not, but there is nothing I hate more than pure biased analysis.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    EverydayImRusselin wrote:I think most importantly, we didn't get Gabbert. Sure fire win right there.


    ....The 49ers got Gabbert for a 6th round pick and Stevie Johnson for a 4th next year and recouped BOTH picks and STILL made 12 picks.

    Yeah. Real loser of a move there.


    Hawks got Pryor for a 7th. Much better bargain IMO. Only niner pick i dont like is Hyde. He's a beast.
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  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    EverydayImRusselin wrote:I think most importantly, we didn't get Gabbert. Sure fire win right there.


    ....The 49ers got Gabbert for a 6th round pick and Stevie Johnson for a 4th next year and recouped BOTH picks and STILL made 12 picks.

    Yeah. Real loser of a move there.


    Hawks got Pryor for a 7th. Much better bargain IMO. Only niner pick i dont like is Hyde. He's a beast.

    you didnt like the Marcus Martin pick? what was wrong with it?
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  • kigenzun wrote:*Disingenuous is a really big word.

    I'll give another point just for that...

    But NFL network's number rating system?
    :1: Meh.

    No extra points for that bunch 'o jazz.


    Well...they are all kinda like that. I wasn't sure just who's rating system to use so chose a big one. Many had Borlad ranked much higher than NFL Network did. Wasn't trying to pick and choose.
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  • Seahawkfan80 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

    I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

    Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

    Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

    This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

    Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

    Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

    Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

    Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

    Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

    Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

    Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


    Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


    Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

    So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

    However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.


    Did you happen to look at East coaSt suPplemental Network's programming scores? I know they would probably be impartial about yours and ours pickses. Also would like to know who picked the ratings base on NFLnetwork. Not looking for homerism or lack there of, just curious. It would mean something as to content tho.

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    To be honest I don't even know who that is. LOL. I just tried to pick something well known. For the sake of argument I just tied doing the same thing using CBS Sports rankings.

    Chris Borland was their 2nd ranked ILB (and Shane Skov was 3rd) and projected in the 3rd round.
    Kevin Pierre-Lois was ranked as their 18th best OLB and projected in the 5th-6th round

    Aaron Lynch was ranked 17th best DE and projected 5th-6th round
    Cassius Marsh was ranked 19th best DE and projected 6th-7th round

    Bruce Ellington ranked 13th best WR and projected 2nd-3rd round
    Paul Richardson was ranked 15 best WR and projected 3rd round

    Dontae Johnson ranked 25th best CB and projected 5th-6th round.
    Eric Pinkins ranked as the 23rd best FS and wasn't projected to be drafted at all.

    Marcus Martin was ranked as the #1 ranked Center and projected 2nd round.
    Justin Britt was ranked as the 13th ranked tackle and projected 5th round pick.

    Kaleb Ramsey was ranked the 58 rated tackle and not projected to be drafted
    I couldn't find Jimmy Staten at all

    Brandon Thomas was ranked the 10th best guard (tho his injury worked into that ranking) and a 5th rounder
    Garrett Scot was the 20th ranked Tackle and rated a 7th rounder

    Trey Millard was ranked the 2nd ranked FB and 5th-6th round pick
    Kiero Small was the 10th ranked FB and not projected to be drafted.

    Jimmie Ward was the 1st ranked SS and projected in rounds 1 or 2.
    Kevin Norwood was ranked the 16th ranked WR and a 3rd rounder.


    I'll look at other draft sites too if someone can find something that says any different.

    Again tho..this has nothing to do with what these players become...just grades given by rankings of people who do this for a living in the media. Also has no bearing on what actually team ranks were.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Wed May 14, 2014 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

    I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

    Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

    Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

    This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

    Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

    Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

    Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

    Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

    Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

    Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

    Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


    Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


    Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

    So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

    However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.

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  • First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

    Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
    Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

    Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.
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  • So another year of peter measuring with the 9ers. All the Seahawks can do is take care of their own backyard. The OP seems more like wishful thinking but I know any chance to rub it in on the division rivals is time well spent, so have at it.

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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 14, 2014 10:01 am
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

    I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

    Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

    Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

    This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

    Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

    Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

    Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

    Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

    Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

    Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

    Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


    Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


    Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

    So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

    However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.

    Hi homer


    LOL. A Seahawks fan ranks most of their picks better than the Niner picks when most media "scouts" say the opposite and I'M the homer.

    Right.

    LOL.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 14, 2014 10:03 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

    Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
    Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

    Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.


    Agree on most points there....particularly on Baalke and long armed athletes.

    That's why the Borland pick surprised me a bit.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

    Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
    Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

    Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.


    Pretty solid right there.

    We'd have to take into account the additional future draft picks SF garnered in this draft. Seattle has no additional future picks.

    San Fransisco does a solid job of getting quality players. I don't think there is any question Seattle is much better at developing players. The two teams are very dissimilar in how they approach team building. SF definitely goes more by the book, and is simply the best in the business at maximizing trade down returns. This is a component I would love Seattle to emulate.

    Conversely, Seattle is the best in the business at taking raw players and turning them into quality players. I'm sure that goes a long way into our reluctance to trade current draft stock for future draft stock. Simply because I'm sure if John could, he'd draft 20 players every year. Day 3 prospects are like a horde of Christmas toys to us.

    Seattle's drafts are almost assuredly going to be puzzling. Even to Seattle fans who follow this process for months. San Fransisco's drafts are very much easier to understand from the draftnik perspective. I expect SF is going to continue to vie for division supremacy based on their ability to keep stockpiling quantity of picks in the first through third range -- and taking guys that have quality in the general consensus way.

    This draft isn't going to be known until August of 2015. So many of these players are very clearly 'reload' players for guys who can easily be projected to walk in free agency next season. This year really should provide a good barometer for the relative success of the 2013 drafts. This is the year both of our redshirt prospects should show if they are going to make a contribution. In this way, Seattle and SF are similar. Getting talent/value late on guys who are going to be a year away.
    Attyla the Hawk
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Hawkfan77 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    I changed my mind. We can only really go by third party rankings because what you say or what I say are irrelevant. What a third party says has no basis really on how the players will turn out, but its all we got to get something resembling an impartial judgement.

    I'm using NFL Networks player rankings from each players Draft Profile

    Kevin Pierre-Louis (5.18)------------------------------------Chris Borland (5.38)

    Cassius Marsh (5.37)------------------------------------------Aaron Lynch (5.24)

    This one isn't really apples to apples though as Lynch will likely be asked to bulk up to play 3-4 DE, not OLB.

    Paul Richardson (5.29)----------------------------------------Bruce Ellington (5.38)

    Also notable that Richardson was Seattle FIRST pick. Ellington was SFs SIXTH pick.

    Eric Pinkins (4.95)---------------------------------------------Dontae Johnson (5.37)

    Justin Britt (5.16)-----------------------------------------------Marcus Martin (5.65)

    Jimmy Staten (4.8 )---------------------------------------------------Kaleb Ramsey (5.02) (IR)

    Garrett Scott (4.9)---------------------------------------------Brandon Thomas (5.42) (IR)

    Kiero Small (4.75)----------------------------------------------Trey Millard (5.11)


    Kevin Norwood (5.36)----------------------------------------------Jimmie Ward (5.44)


    Not even counting the extra picks of Hyde, Reaser, or Acker....or acquisition of Stevie Johnson.

    So, as I said before, we have no idea how this picks actually turn out. Perhaps Seattle just sees what others don't and this could be the best draft of all time. Who the hell knows.

    However, to put these picks side by side right now and at least try to go by a third party opinion and not that of a Seahawk OR a 49er fan.....it becomes disingenuous to say Seattle clearly did better.

    Hi homer


    LOL. A Seahawks fan ranks most of their picks better than the Niner picks when most media "scouts" say the opposite and I'M the homer.

    Right.

    LOL.

    LOL.

    Homer

    LOL.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Tue May 20, 2014 12:45 pm
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:First of all, trying to compare 2014 drafts is just as dumb as grading them. Now, if anyone wants to compare 2011 drafts, have a go at that.

    Compare drafting styles? I can do that.
    Baalke likes to go into drafts with several extra picks. They are his currency. Baalke likes name brand players a bit more than Schneider, not that he won't go for smaller school guys, but he likes heard of names a bit more. Baalke likes to gamble on recently injured players, IMO because if they don't get to practice or play that first year he gets a bonus year tacked onto their deal, all while they watch and learn. Niner fans know to look at arm length for prospects, Ballke loves long arms. Not that Schneider doesn't, no corners with less than 32, but Schneider is more about SPARQ.

    Schneider is not afraid to go into a draft low on picks, he can turn 6 into 9 after the draft starts. Schneider is very unlikely to move up and get somebody. Schneider doesn't believe in throw away picks, I think he really values 7th rounders as much as any other pick. Sweezy and Bowie may very well be starting game 1 this year on the right side. both 7th round picks. Malcom Smith, 7th round pick. Do I think Schneider has done more with less than Baalke? Absolutely. So what? Both have stacked their rosters with good players.


    Pretty solid right there.

    We'd have to take into account the additional future draft picks SF garnered in this draft. Seattle has no additional future picks.

    San Fransisco does a solid job of getting quality players. I don't think there is any question Seattle is much better at developing players. The two teams are very dissimilar in how they approach team building. SF definitely goes more by the book, and is simply the best in the business at maximizing trade down returns. This is a component I would love Seattle to emulate.

    Conversely, Seattle is the best in the business at taking raw players and turning them into quality players. I'm sure that goes a long way into our reluctance to trade current draft stock for future draft stock. Simply because I'm sure if John could, he'd draft 20 players every year. Day 3 prospects are like a horde of Christmas toys to us.

    Seattle's drafts are almost assuredly going to be puzzling. Even to Seattle fans who follow this process for months. San Fransisco's drafts are very much easier to understand from the draftnik perspective. I expect SF is going to continue to vie for division supremacy based on their ability to keep stockpiling quantity of picks in the first through third range -- and taking guys that have quality in the general consensus way.

    This draft isn't going to be known until August of 2015. So many of these players are very clearly 'reload' players for guys who can easily be projected to walk in free agency next season. This year really should provide a good barometer for the relative success of the 2013 drafts. This is the year both of our redshirt prospects should show if they are going to make a contribution. In this way, Seattle and SF are similar. Getting talent/value late on guys who are going to be a year away.


    Both agree and disagree.

    BTW...the only future pick they got was a 2015 4th rounder, but it's a wash because that's what they traded for Stevie Johnson. The pick for Stevie also has a chance to become a 3rd, but hasn't been released yet what the conditions are.

    I agree with most of what you are saying from a player acquisition perspective, but I disagree with what you are saying from a player development standpoint.

    The 49ers don't have any issues with player development. The Seahawks are very, very good at it, but I don't think it's THAT much better.

    I think the difference is really two fold...

    1) The 49ers have a number of players who have been on the team for awhile...so there is less need to play younger players. When they HAVE had spots to fill with young players, those guys have been really, really good. Bowman wasn't a starter until this coaching staff took over. Neither was Ray McDonald. This staff drafted Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid. Many think that those are the only good players they have taken or something. No, those are just the only ones who have cracked the starting lineup because the 49ers have one of the best starting lineups in the NFL. Seattle is kinda now in that same position. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think a single Seahawk started as a rookie last year. Bad draft? Seahawks version of Niners 2012 draft? No. Superior talent already on the team and few openings for player to earn a spot.

    2) The Seahawks are VERY good with player development, but I don't think it starts there. I don't think they can make a superstar out of anyone. They are just very good at seeing specific aspects of particular players games that they think that can make something out of. They see aspects of a players game that other don't. They know what they are looking for and don't really care what others think. Its a great advantage to have a GM who knows so well exactly what his coaches can get out of a particular player and that's what the Seahawks have.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 21, 2014 12:21 am
  • Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...


    I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

    ....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.
    Marvin49
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...


    I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

    ....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.


    Sometimes the truth is an arrogant and vicious MFer, isn't it?
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...


    I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

    ....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.


    Sometimes the truth is an arrogant and vicious MFer, isn't it?


    Lol.

    No worries...your boys earned it. It's just funny how quickly so many fans have essentially become exactly what they b*tched about for YEARS.
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  • Human nature. We all think we will be better than the guys before us. "If I were a millionaire (billionaire), I would not do the ....".
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  • Marv, you make a valid point but people are just enjoying the moment. Don't judge ;)
    Marvin49 wrote:Ok. I have to admit. That's messed up.

    You win.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 21, 2014 11:20 am
  • I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

    This made my day.
    "If given the opportunity without fear of incarceration, I would honestly beat the living **** out of Jerry Rice."

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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 21, 2014 11:32 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...


    I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

    ....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.



    Let me get my frigging violin out.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 21, 2014 11:55 am
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...


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  • Laloosh wrote:Marv, you make a valid point but people are just enjoying the moment. Don't judge ;)


    No judgment. Just amusement. :D
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Here are some more comparisons for the list:

    Number of Super Bowls won last season:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of Head Coaches receiving a much desired new contract:

    Seahawks 1-0 49ers

    Number of key players re-signed for the long term:

    Seahawks 3-0 49ers

    Number of bitter GM/Coach relationships developed:

    Seahawks 0-1 49ers

    Oh... I guess the 49ers got one over us after all...


    I gotta say....for all of the complaints I've seen over here about arrogant Niner fans....

    ....some of you seem to have no problem jumping right into those shoes.



    Let me get my frigging violin out.



    .....weak.
    Marvin49
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  • drdiags wrote:Human nature. We all think we will be better than the guys before us. "If I were a millionaire (billionaire), I would not do the ....".


    True.
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  • Smelly McUgly wrote:I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

    This made my day.


    Clearly my point was too complex for you.

    No worries.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Smelly McUgly wrote:I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

    This made my day.


    Clearly my point was too complex for you.

    No worries.


    No, your point was just stupid and incredibly whiny considering that you're a dude that chest-thumps over past Lombardis on Webzone before coming over here to pretend that you're a reasonable and thoughtful human being.

    It's funny to see Rob makes a post that winds you up, though I do get that you would be an expert at recognizing obnoxious bragging since you have lots of personal experience with it. The difference is that Rob did it knowing that you would be here post-haste to amuse us by crying about it whereas you do it because you really believe your own garbage.
    "If given the opportunity without fear of incarceration, I would honestly beat the living **** out of Jerry Rice."

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  • Smelly McUgly wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Smelly McUgly wrote:I literally laughed out loud at Rob crapping on Marvin and the other lurking 49er fans with that list of comparisons. One of the funniest posts I've seen on any board in a long time, especially when Marvin followed up with "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE."

    This made my day.


    Clearly my point was too complex for you.

    No worries.


    No, your point was just stupid and incredibly whiny considering that you're a dude that chest-thumps over past Lombardis on Webzone before coming over here to pretend that you're a reasonable and thoughtful human being.

    It's funny to see Rob makes a post that winds you up, though I do get that you would be an expert at recognizing obnoxious bragging since you have lots of personal experience with it. The difference is that Rob did it knowing that you would be here post-haste to amuse us by crying about it whereas you do it because you really believe your own garbage.


    1) It didn't wind me up. I thought it was funny. I've said so multiple times but reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

    2) Give me 1 example of me chest thumping about past Lombardi's on the 'zone and I'll be impressed. Don't speak about that which you clearly do not know. You are just making sh*t up and arguing what you want to be true. That's called a straw man. Sorry. It's BS.

    Anyone who actually reads what I say on the zone would probably agree that while I'm a bit less muted, my opinion isn't any different.

    3) Your "quote" of me saying "SO ARROGANT HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE" shows that you didn't understand what I was saying. My point was about hypocrisy, not arrogance.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Wed May 21, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • To be fair.. being "arrogant" about what happened 3 months ago is a touch different than being arrogant over what happened 3 decades ago. ;)
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:To be fair.. being "arrogant" about what happened 3 months ago is a touch different than being arrogant over what happened 3 decades ago. ;)


    Granted. Still kinda funny to see very similar arguments used in reverse.

    No worries. Just struck me funny. I don't begrudge it. Niner fans would do the exact same thing.
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  • Oh Marvin. You're so NOT riled up that you felt the need to quote and post responses to multiple people.

    I'm not going over into that Webzone sty to find and post your own garbage that you and I know you both wrote. In any case, I'm sure you won't respond to this as you pathologically need to in order to defend yourself/the 49ers/the 49er fan base on a Seahawks message board.
    "If given the opportunity without fear of incarceration, I would honestly beat the living **** out of Jerry Rice."

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  • I read a pretty accurate direct comparison on Twitter today:

    "white house > court house"
    Marvin49 wrote:Ok. I have to admit. That's messed up.

    You win.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Wed May 21, 2014 10:08 pm
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:Oh Marvin. You're so NOT riled up that you felt the need to quote and post responses to multiple people.

    I'm not going over into that Webzone sty to find and post your own garbage that you and I know you both wrote. In any case, I'm sure you won't respond to this as you pathologically need to in order to defend yourself/the 49ers/the 49er fan base on a Seahawks message board.


    Wow. Pathetic response.

    Multiple responses? Yup...some of which where I was AGREEING with the poster.

    Of course you won't go over there to prove your point. There is no proof because I don't do that.

    You don't want to go over to the 'zone? Cool. No worries. Just don't talk about what "you and I know you both wrote"...even though that doesn't even make sense. YOU don't even know what I write there. That's pretty clear.

    Instead, you'd rather build the straw man to argue against because it's much easier. Sad. What's worse is that you probably don't even know what a straw man argument is. If you did you wouldn't be so blatantly using one.

    I'm done with this conversation...unless you can find an example or two of what you speak.
    Marvin49
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  • LOL, we all know what a strawman is. Your Critical Thinking 101 class experience isn't impressing anyone. You also know that I'm not going to go to the Zone to dig up the numerous crap-talking posts that you join in on with your ilk, but since everyone here knows that you conduct yourself differently there than you do here, asking me for evidence is like asking me for evidence that the earth circles the sun or that humans need oxygen to live.

    Anyway, I've got a comparison: Over here at .Net, most of us stay the hell off of 49er boards except for the guys who love trolling them outright (see Laloosh).

    However, the 49er fans at Webzone just can't help coming here to pretend that they have something relevant or important to say because they just need our attention so badly that they can't help it.
    "If given the opportunity without fear of incarceration, I would honestly beat the living **** out of Jerry Rice."

    --Internet tough guy HawkWow being a MAN on the internet
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  • ^^ *gasp*
    Marvin49 wrote:Ok. I have to admit. That's messed up.

    You win.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Thu May 22, 2014 10:06 am
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:LOL, we all know what a strawman is. Your Critical Thinking 101 class experience isn't impressing anyone. You also know that I'm not going to go to the Zone to dig up the numerous crap-talking posts that you join in on with your ilk, but since everyone here knows that you conduct yourself differently there than you do here, asking me for evidence is like asking me for evidence that the earth circles the sun or that humans need oxygen to live.

    Anyway, I've got a comparison: Over here at .Net, most of us stay the hell off of 49er boards except for the guys who love trolling them outright (see Laloosh).

    However, the 49er fans at Webzone just can't help coming here to pretend that they have something relevant or important to say because they just need our attention so badly that they can't help it.


    Yup. I knew it. Ya got nothin'. Sad.
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Re: Direct Comparisons: Seahawks vs. 49ers
Thu May 22, 2014 11:53 am
  • Ok another thread locked, some people don't understand attacks and smack have places and it's not here. Consider yourself both warned and I will give all a vacation Seahawk fan or otherwise going forward.
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