Who was the biggest 1st round reach in your opinion?

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  • My opinion:

    Blake Bortles. Not even the best QB in the draft, IMO. Jacksonville would have been able to get a QB in round 2 almost guaranteed. Both Watkins and Mack are super-studs and filled big needs for Jacksonville. Whoops.

    Zack Martin. Seems so damn ordinary to me, what am I missing? James Carpenter with hype.

    Some of those corners left the board too early, though with such a huge run on DBs early, I'll cut those teams some slack. Especially Cleveland, who reached for a corner early but still had a masterful 1st round.
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  • Bortles is the easiest one.

    Eric Ebron went about 20 picks early.

    Kelvin Benjamin I didn't like until the early 3rd, but I'm pretty alone in that opinion.
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  • That Bortles Pick is gonna be really hard for David Caldwell to live down. It simply made no sense. I feel bad for Jags fans, the last GM drafted a punter in the 3rd, and now this. Factory of sadness stuff.
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  • Bortles by far. Jimmie Ward as well.. was actually surprised the 49ers didn't move up into the Top 12 to grab someone with the picks they have.
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  • Barr. He has bust written all over him.
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  • For the Bortles pick: I guess JAX grabbed Bortles at 3 because they didn't want to risk another team ranking Bortles as the best QB on their board. If they traded down then the Raiders, Browns, or Vikings could've sniped him away from the Jags. I know the general public isn't very high on Bortles, but that's how I try to justify it.
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  • Bortles is the easy pick, but I'm gonna go with Anthony Barr.
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  • Philly, Marcus Smith. Not even close. I don't like the Bortles pick, but Marcus Smith was a Who? pick.
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  • Agree with Scotte. Thought Miami barfed on the screen with Juwaun James.
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  • Who was the 5'9" CB the Chargers drafted?

    Watched his "highlights" and laughed my ass off. That little mouse fart just gets shoved off the line. And that is in college. It will be sad to watch him vs these giant NfL wideouts.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Philly, Marcus Smith. Not even close. I don't like the Bortles pick, but Marcus Smith was a Who? pick.


    I don't know much about him, though his highlights looked pretty good actually, and he had 14.5 sacks last season if I heard them right. Not bad considering how terrible this pass rusher group was after the top two picks.
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  • Bortles by far.

    Seems better than gabbert so maaaaaayyyybe they draft their qbotf next time
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  • Eh. I think we gotta move away from this value thing. If the Jags feel like Bortes is their guy than they made the right pick. The argument of they could've got a better player if they waited or whatever seems silly.

    The draft can be a crap shoot. Can't miss prospects flame out all the time and terrible reaches turn into all pros. Assigning value before these guys hit the field as a pro is just for s and giggles.

    How soon have we forgotten what a reach Russell Wilson was to many.
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  • amill87 wrote:Eh. I think we gotta move away from this value thing. If the Jags feel like Bortes is their guy than they made the right pick. The argument of they could've got a better player if they waited or whatever seems silly.

    How soon have we forgotten what a reach Russell Wilson was to many.


    Well, we got Russell in the third round. We could have taken him in the second, but if we did, we very likely would not have Bobby Wagner right now.

    It was the draft's worst kept secret that multiple QBs were going to fall in this draft. They did not need to take a QB so early and should have known as much. And because they took Bortles so early, they missed out on one of the best WR prospects of the last decade.

    If Bortles was a legit franchise QB prospect I would be more understanding. But personally, I think the guy is a slightly better version of Jake Locker.
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  • Yeah that's all true.

    Maybe I'm just a wuss and just accept I'm wrong about everything in the draft so I don't even attempt to put value on picks so early
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  • kearly wrote:
    amill87 wrote:Eh. I think we gotta move away from this value thing. If the Jags feel like Bortes is their guy than they made the right pick. The argument of they could've got a better player if they waited or whatever seems silly.

    How soon have we forgotten what a reach Russell Wilson was to many.


    Well, we got Russell in the third round. We could have taken him in the second, but if we did, we very likely would not have Bobby Wagner right now.

    It was the draft's worst kept secret that multiple QBs were going to fall in this draft. They did not need to take a QB so early and should have known as much. And because they took Bortles so early, they missed out on one of the best WR prospects of the last decade.

    If Bortles was a legit franchise QB prospect I would be more understanding. But personally, I think the guy is a slightly better version of Jake Locker.


    You say a slightly better Locker, I say a slightly worse (and much less Rapey) BigBen. Then you add Marqise Lee and Allen Robinson and it makes some sense, only question I have is "does it make as much sense as Watkins, Derek Carr and Allen Robinson?"
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  • Bortles was by far the biggest reach.

    The Niners selecting a slender, weak safety who is slow to diagnose plays and has an attitude problem would be second worst for me.
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  • Bordels has to be it, but I really like both of the WR they drafted for him to throw to. Good WR can make a Qb look good.
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  • Dominique Easly. I'm a firm believer that people love Florida Gator DTs based on past history. Sharif Floyd was that guy last year, and Jaye Howard was the guy before that. I predict that he will have an average career, but we shall see. Belicheck is a damn good DC and can make average players look all world.
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  • In fairness Easley is ten times the player Jaye Howard was... and he's a darn site better than Floyd too. Incredible player.
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  • The Bortles pick confused me, Gus could've gotten his LEO with Mack. But I guess... I mean.... Ya know.... Lol
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  • amill87 wrote:Eh. I think we gotta move away from this value thing. If the Jags feel like Bortes is their guy than they made the right pick. The argument of they could've got a better player if they waited or whatever seems silly.

    The draft can be a crap shoot. Can't miss prospects flame out all the time and terrible reaches turn into all pros. Assigning value before these guys hit the field as a pro is just for s and giggles.

    How soon have we forgotten what a reach Russell Wilson was to many.


    I'm in agreement with this. I don't put the time in scouting these guys that a lot of you guys do, but there wasn't many draftniks that didn't have Bortles as a first round pick. Thing is, Jags could've traded down, but they still wouldn't have gotten Watkins. Bortles definitely wouldn't have been there with the Jags 2nd pick.....so if he's your guy, what do you do ?

    People gasp and do the "Home Alone" face because it's at #3, but honestly, they didn't have another 1st round pick. Someone drafts Bortles at 20 and no one bats an eye. They don't pick their guy at that spot, they aren't getting him, and trading down to get "true value" would still get you to lose out on Watkins. So, you're getting Watkins, or you're getting the QB you think can take you to the next level.

    Now, Minny, Phi, and Miami I think whiffed on their picks. I don't know much about the Niners pick, but people seem to think it was a reach, although the NFL network analysts all gave the Niners draft an A.
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  • Hawks46 wrote:I'm in agreement with this. I don't put the time in scouting these guys that a lot of you guys do, but there wasn't many draftniks that didn't have Bortles as a first round pick. Thing is, Jags could've traded down, but they still wouldn't have gotten Watkins. Bortles definitely wouldn't have been there with the Jags 2nd pick.....so if he's your guy, what do you do ?

    People gasp and do the "Home Alone" face because it's at #3, but honestly, they didn't have another 1st round pick. Someone drafts Bortles at 20 and no one bats an eye. They don't pick their guy at that spot, they aren't getting him, and trading down to get "true value" would still get you to lose out on Watkins. So, you're getting Watkins, or you're getting the QB you think can take you to the next level.

    Now, Minny, Phi, and Miami I think whiffed on their picks. I don't know much about the Niners pick, but people seem to think it was a reach, although the NFL network analysts all gave the Niners draft an A.


    Bortles won't be any more likely to take them to the next level than Carr would, IMO. I would actually like Bortles and compare him to Big Ben if he didn't have an accuracy problem. He's also going to take a lot of hits the way he plays, both as a passer and a runner. He panics just a little under pressure, though I'll admit he is very tough and elusive in the pocket.

    I watched him against South Carolina a while back. He had a decent first quarter, but South Carolina made adjustments early in the game and Bortles was a total non-factor from then on.

    Side topic: I think the Texans are screwed with their current FO. They made it no secret that they only target QBs who would have been prototypical a decade ago, and these days those kinds of QBs are becoming increasingly rare as the college game has long embraced a very different kind of QB. I think the NFL's move towards QBs like Wilson, RG3, Manziel and soon, Winston, is largely by necessity. Innovation in the sport is coming out of the college game right now instead of the pros, and the QBs college teams are producing meet a new model. Because of that, fewer guys who met the old prototype are being produced for the draft.

    Next year's draft is not looking all that great for QBs, especially if you want prototypical guys. They'll probably draft next year's Tom Savage in the 4th round too.
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  • tooshort wrote:You say a slightly better Locker, I say a slightly worse (and much less Rapey) BigBen. Then you add Marqise Lee and Allen Robinson and it makes some sense, only question I have is "does it make as much sense as Watkins, Derek Carr and Allen Robinson?"


    I saw Bortles whiz way too many passes a car's length from open WRs to make an honest Big Ben comp. Accuracy is a major strength for Rapistberger, whereas it's the biggest issue for Bortles.
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  • I thought there were big fat bloated reaches all over the board, but the ones that stood out to me were Taylor Lewan to the Titans at #11, and Odell Beckham Jr at #12 to the NY Giants.

    The GM in Tennessee should have been fired immediately. And Tom Coughlin should know better by now, that defense wins championships, not 20+ million dollar Mannings.

    Lewan may eventually pan out, and OBJ is a great player and all, but they BOTH should have taken Aaron Donald hands down. The Titans already have Guards and Tackles, and the Giants could have easily gotten Donald in the 1st, and Eli a receiver in the 2nd-3rd like everybody else did. It was Ree-Dick-U-Luss...

    Its a damn travesty the Titans, and especially the friggin' Giants, bent us over the barrel like this.

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  • I guess I have trouble labeling anything a reach if the same guy was not going to be there the next time you pick.

    Juan James may seem likie a reach at 19, but he would not have been there in the late 2nd. In fact, after he was taken, only two tackles went in the next 40 picks, The Bama kid with the fried knee and Bitonio. I have no problem seeing why the Fins thought James would be gone the next time they picked.
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  • Barr, I think Bortles will be fine but he's still a rook there will be a learning curve that every rook has to go through.
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  • kearly wrote:
    tooshort wrote:You say a slightly better Locker, I say a slightly worse (and much less Rapey) BigBen. Then you add Marqise Lee and Allen Robinson and it makes some sense, only question I have is "does it make as much sense as Watkins, Derek Carr and Allen Robinson?"


    I saw Bortles whiz way too many passes a car's length from open WRs to make an honest Big Ben comp. Accuracy is a major strength for Rapistberger, whereas it's the biggest issue for Bortles.

    UCF is right up the street from me and I've seen him play quite a bit over the last couple of years. I think scouts probably saw tremendous improvement in Bortles throughout his time at UCF and see no reason that will not continue into his NFL career. He's got the potential to be very good on Sundays.

    Everyone listens to all the smoke screens, but really Bortles was the prize QB of the draft. Some might think the Jags could have traded down at least a couple of spots and still got him. Maybe not, though. I wonder if the Browns traded down only after Bortles was taken ahead of them? Maybe something was known there and they didn't want to take the chance of him being gone at #4. That's the only reason I see why he went ahead of Watkins and Mack, but how many times has there been a prize WR taken high first round only to flop? I thought the Jags would take Mack, though.

    I'm not a Jags fan (all other teams are the enemy to me), but I think they made a wise draft choice. He's a QB with prototypical size, etc., etc. That position is a worthwhile gamble and he was even mentioned potentially as high as #1 overall. I don't consider Bortles a reach. The entire first round looks pretty good right about now. But, we know that doesn't stand the test of time. I think Marcus Smith at 26 was a bit high. The 29,30,31 picks are also suspect.
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  • Justin Britt.

    I don't believe the spin some are putting on the pick by saying there was a run on tackles. Even if there was you still don't take him that high.
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  • Rumor has it Houston was looking at Bortles with the #1 overall. May not be that big of a reach after all.
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  • I don't think there's many reaches. I think ODB is a bit over-hyped for the #12 spot. I don't think Juwaun James is a top-20 player. I guess If I had to pick one, it'd be Eric Ebron at #10 to the Lions. Picking a TE that early is a bit of a gamble. For one, he's not the most confident catcher. He also doesn't really block, so he's more of a glorified big receiver who will play in the slot. I think he'll help that offense take the next step, but the Lion's defense needed more help than the offense, and now they have to find a way to split targets between him, CJ, Tate, and Bush out of the backfield.

    Eric Ebron could be a hell of a player, but a year from now I could see Aaron Donald (who was available to them) being the better pick, in hindsight. Assuming they let Fairley go in free agency.

    Scottemojo wrote:I guess I have trouble labeling anything a reach if the same guy was not going to be there the next time you pick.

    Juan James may seem likie a reach at 19, but he would not have been there in the late 2nd. In fact, after he was taken, only two tackles went in the next 40 picks, The Bama kid with the fried knee and Bitonio. I have no problem seeing why the Fins thought James would be gone the next time they picked.


    It's hard to call a pick a reach because we simply don't know how the league viewed the player and where he might have went off the board, but, imo, there are reach picks just as there are value picks.

    A perfect example is the Paul Richardson selection. The front office had its card filled out with his name on it with the 32nd pick, but knew they could drop down the draft a couple times and grab him at 45. Would he have been there at #64? Probably not, but at the same time, drafting him at #32 would have been a reach considering we know he was there mid-2nd.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that the question shouldn't be, "will he be there with our next pick", but "will he be there 10 spots from now". If so then you trade down and trust your information.
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  • I really liked Mack, and wouldn't have taken Bortles there. That being said, as a fairly ignorant X's and O's type of football fan, I really only liked two early round (projected) QB's this year: Bortles and Carr. So, if he was Jax's guy...and they believe in him, you go for it. It's a QB league. They got the one they wanted...reach or not. He WAS being mocked constantly in the top 5 leading up to the draft...so I don't think it's a reach.
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  • I was shocked the Jags took Bortles because I was so sure that Bradley would build his team like Pete did. Build a run game and defense, then insert QB to give him his best chance at success (see Mark Sanchez).

    But they did get 2 very good wide receivers which I think will help a lot. I think will NFL coaching and training that Bortles will be a very good QB in the long run...if he sits behind Henne for a year or two.

    Storm Johnson can develop in to a decent back but they have Toby Gerhart who will do well if he's the starter.

    So I think Jacksonville saved themselves later in the draft and I don't believe it was an overreach.

    Back to my choice, I think he's going to be injury prone in the NFL.

    Verrett is kind of small but if he can play Wes Welker in the slot then he will have been a worthwhile pick.

    It seems to me that this year teams placed less value on draft position and BPA, and put more value on need. If they needed a Right Tackle, and they didn't believe he would be there 15 - 30 spots later, then they took him. That kind of thinking makes it a little more difficult to judge teams this year.
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  • ivotuk wrote:I was shocked the Jags took Bortles because I was so sure that Bradley would build his team like Pete did. Build a run game and defense, then insert QB to give him his best chance at success (see Mark Sanchez).

    But they did get 2 very good wide receivers which I think will help a lot. I think will NFL coaching and training that Bortles will be a very good QB in the long run...if he sits behind Henne for a year or two.

    Storm Johnson can develop in to a decent back but they have Toby Gerhart who will do well if he's the starter.

    So I think Jacksonville saved themselves later in the draft and I don't believe it was an overreach.

    Back to my choice, I think he's going to be injury prone in the NFL.

    Verrett is kind of small but if he can play Wes Welker in the slot then he will have been a worthwhile pick.

    It seems to me that this year teams placed less value on draft position and BPA, and put more value on need. If they needed a Right Tackle, and they didn't believe he would be there 15 - 30 spots later, then they took him. That kind of thinking makes it a little more difficult to judge teams this year.


    Well to be fair, they picked up their LT last year as Pete did in 2010.

    Also, Seattle and Jacksonville were different teams. Seattle had an aging legacy QB to handle. Jacksonville was still in the last phase of their dev window with a first round QB. Seattle and Jacksonville both went after a QB in year two. And realistically, Gus probably understood better than us on the outside just how important the organization felt getting their QB really was. Seattle just wasn't in a position to acquire one. Jacksonville wasn't saddled with that inability.

    It looks from afar, that Gus is pretty much running the Carroll blueprint for rebuild over there. With the exception that they don't make many draft deals and when they do, it's about 3 times as likely they move up rather than down.

    I can see a lot to like with Bortles. I don't like his accuracy as much. But he definitely has a quality about him. Particularly his ability to rally his team late from behind to win games against quality opponents. I see him having some of the same winner mentality traits we see in Wilson. I like him loads more than I liked the 2011 QB class (including Cam Newton who exceeded my expectations wildly). He's in a good situation where he can grow for a couple years with a core of talent. And for a coach who will surround him with talent along the line and defensively. I really liked how they came away with what looks like one of the top 5 WR hauls in the 2013 draft. Despite burning #3 overall on a QB first. That was a real coup for this team.
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