Forgotten WR?

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Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:23 pm
  • I feel like since the combine where he didn't run the fastest 40, he's been talked about less than others. My coworker went to Penn State and raves about him.

    But his pro day results should help his stock:

    "With a 4.47 time in the 40, 42-inch vertical and 6.53 three-cone at State College, Robinson vastly improved his athletic results from Indy: 4.60, 39-inch vertical, 7.00 three-cone. He also added four inches to his broad jump (131 inches Tuesday)."

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl- ... penn-state

    How does he compare to the other possible late 1st/2nd round WRs?
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:28 pm
  • norcalhawk wrote:I feel like since the combine where he didn't run the fastest 40, he's been talked about less than others. My coworker went to Penn State and raves about him.

    But his pro day results should help his stock:

    "With a 4.47 time in the 40, 42-inch vertical and 6.53 three-cone at State College, Robinson vastly improved his athletic results from Indy: 4.60, 39-inch vertical, 7.00 three-cone. He also added four inches to his broad jump (131 inches Tuesday)."

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl- ... penn-state

    How does he compare to the other possible late 1st/2nd round WRs?



    On the ninerwebzone people have been giving him a hard look.

    He almost sealed his fate with a bad combine, I had him in the 2-3 round before the combine... But after I had him dropping to 5-6
    That pro-day result should help. I think he is a very, very good open field runner. He makes a lot of plays out there that some WR just don't. You can also tell he has that motor, watching him this season i could tell he always fought for those 1-2 extra yards.
    I don't think he is a guy that can come in and beat some of the WR you have on the seahawks, I don't see him beating out Baldwin, or Kearse (and obviously Harvin) which means he wouldn't be very productive.

    I think this guy is the hidden gem of this years draft.
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... en-beckham

    If he can keep his head on straight
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:36 pm
  • Sherminator wrote:
    norcalhawk wrote:I feel like since the combine where he didn't run the fastest 40, he's been talked about less than others. My coworker went to Penn State and raves about him.

    But his pro day results should help his stock:

    "With a 4.47 time in the 40, 42-inch vertical and 6.53 three-cone at State College, Robinson vastly improved his athletic results from Indy: 4.60, 39-inch vertical, 7.00 three-cone. He also added four inches to his broad jump (131 inches Tuesday)."

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl- ... penn-state

    How does he compare to the other possible late 1st/2nd round WRs?



    On the ninerwebzone people have been giving him a hard look.

    He almost sealed his fate with a bad combine, I had him in the 2-3 round before the combine... But after I had him dropping to 5-6
    That pro-day result should help. I think he is a very, very good open field runner. He makes a lot of plays out there that some WR just don't. You can also tell he has that motor, watching him this season i could tell he always fought for those 1-2 extra yards.
    I don't think he is a guy that can come in and beat some of the WR you have on the seahawks, I don't see him beating out Baldwin, or Kearse (and obviously Harvin) which means he wouldn't be very productive.

    I think this guy is the hidden gem of this years draft.
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... en-beckham

    If he can keep his head on straight

    DGB isn't in this years draft because he's only played 2 years. He also just recently got suspended from his team indefinitely
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:48 pm
  • ARhawk wrote:
    Sherminator wrote:
    norcalhawk wrote:I feel like since the combine where he didn't run the fastest 40, he's been talked about less than others. My coworker went to Penn State and raves about him.

    But his pro day results should help his stock:

    "With a 4.47 time in the 40, 42-inch vertical and 6.53 three-cone at State College, Robinson vastly improved his athletic results from Indy: 4.60, 39-inch vertical, 7.00 three-cone. He also added four inches to his broad jump (131 inches Tuesday)."

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl- ... penn-state

    How does he compare to the other possible late 1st/2nd round WRs?



    On the ninerwebzone people have been giving him a hard look.

    He almost sealed his fate with a bad combine, I had him in the 2-3 round before the combine... But after I had him dropping to 5-6
    That pro-day result should help. I think he is a very, very good open field runner. He makes a lot of plays out there that some WR just don't. You can also tell he has that motor, watching him this season i could tell he always fought for those 1-2 extra yards.
    I don't think he is a guy that can come in and beat some of the WR you have on the seahawks, I don't see him beating out Baldwin, or Kearse (and obviously Harvin) which means he wouldn't be very productive.

    I think this guy is the hidden gem of this years draft.
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... en-beckham

    If he can keep his head on straight

    DGB isn't in this years draft because he's only played 2 years. He also just recently got suspended from his team indefinitely



    Maybe i'm wrong,
    But can't he declare for the sup?
    Or does he have to wait a year for that as well
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:55 pm
  • Sherminator wrote:
    ARhawk wrote:
    Sherminator wrote:
    norcalhawk wrote:I feel like since the combine where he didn't run the fastest 40, he's been talked about less than others. My coworker went to Penn State and raves about him.

    But his pro day results should help his stock:

    "With a 4.47 time in the 40, 42-inch vertical and 6.53 three-cone at State College, Robinson vastly improved his athletic results from Indy: 4.60, 39-inch vertical, 7.00 three-cone. He also added four inches to his broad jump (131 inches Tuesday)."

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl- ... penn-state

    How does he compare to the other possible late 1st/2nd round WRs?



    On the ninerwebzone people have been giving him a hard look.

    He almost sealed his fate with a bad combine, I had him in the 2-3 round before the combine... But after I had him dropping to 5-6
    That pro-day result should help. I think he is a very, very good open field runner. He makes a lot of plays out there that some WR just don't. You can also tell he has that motor, watching him this season i could tell he always fought for those 1-2 extra yards.
    I don't think he is a guy that can come in and beat some of the WR you have on the seahawks, I don't see him beating out Baldwin, or Kearse (and obviously Harvin) which means he wouldn't be very productive.

    I think this guy is the hidden gem of this years draft.
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... en-beckham

    If he can keep his head on straight

    DGB isn't in this years draft because he's only played 2 years. He also just recently got suspended from his team indefinitely



    Maybe i'm wrong,
    But can't he declare for the sup?
    Or does he have to wait a year for that as well


    He has to be three years out of high school before he can declare for the draft
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:02 pm
  • Myself and a few others have talked a bit about Robinson over the last couple months, but I'd say the main reason he hasn't been talked about as much (despite some great tape) is that he doesn't pass the test measurables that (I'm guessing) the average draft fan who doesn't watch much tape use as their main part of the evaluation process. (There's some good conversation from an earlier thread you might like)

    It happens every draft year. Players are hardly even looked at, let alone viewed as a high pick, but they post an amazing combine or in some cases Pro day performance (Moncrief, M. Bryant, Cody Latimer) and their draft stock skyrocket because of "potential" and "measurables". Guys have a poorer combine (Allen Robinson, Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen of last year) and their draft grade tanks because they're "limited".

    In some cases, the combine and pro day's serves it's purpose. Us arm-chair scouts take notice and go back to the tape to see what we missed and find players who were legitimately undervalued, but many times the test numbers are a tool that gets overused, imo.

    The funny thing is that AR's combine numbers caused a lot of people to downgrade him, but had AR had posted his Pro Day numbers at the combine he'd still be in discussion as a top receiver in that second tier. His tape hasn't changed, but it's those numbers that affected his grade :?
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:35 pm
  • I'm not a huge fan of Robinson's tape because he isn't that explosive. The three most talked about WRs on this board (Evans, Robinson, and Benjamin) are not at the top of my wish list.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:17 am
  • Watched another game of his last week.

    He's just average compared to some of the other receivers in this class.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:23 am
  • Sherminator wrote:I had him in the 2-3 round before the combine... But after I had him dropping to 5-6


    That's ridiculous. No way he was ever a 5-6 round pick, and I'd be incredibly surprised if he made it to the 3rd.

    hawknation2014 wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Robinson's tape because he isn't that explosive. The three most talked about WRs on this board (Evans, Robinson, and Benjamin) are not at the top of my wish list.


    Maybe not explosive in terms of having that extra gear but I'd say he's pretty explosive off the line and out of his breaks; it's where he wins most of his routes.

    Athletically he can be compared to Cody Latimer (especially after these recent pro day results), who we're believed to value very highly, but I like Robinson's tape better and think he'll be the more immediate contributor. I've never seen a WR draw more pass interference fouls. Honestly, watch his game tape, it's ridiculous.

    I'd be happy if we took him at #32, and ecstatic if we landed him at #64. I expect him to be high on our board and think there's a decent chance that he, Latimer or Janis will be a Seahawk come May.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:50 am
  • Not a huge fan of Robinson. I think his one elite quality is his ability to navigate traffic (something I think he does better than anyone in this class). But I don't think that skill translates to the NFL well, and particularly doesn't translate to the NFCW where the talent on Defense is just incredibly fast and physical. I think Robinson can have an impact, but I think it will be on a team like NE or Den which uses the short passing game alot and they can maximize his elusiveness. Robinson is quick but I didn't see him win contested balls on a consistent basis and while he has some high point ability I didn't think that was consistent either. He's a good player, but I don't see him more than a Day 2 prospect and I don't think he'd ever reach his full potential in the NFCW. I just think he needs an elite QB and finesse high volume passing game with lots of short passes.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:11 am
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Watched another game of his last week.

    He's just average compared to some of the other receivers in this class.


    This deep WR class isn't doing him any favors, but he's a legit talent.

    Calling him average compared to other receivers just depends on who and what you're comparing, I guess. There are things AR is better at than guys like M. Bryant, Moncrief, and Coleman to name a few (ball skills, route-running, cuts, hops, short area quickness, vision, creativity w/ the ball) but then there are things those guys are better at than AR (speed & size:two big categories, I'll admit).

    One thing to remember, this kid is only 20 years old. He's got room to grow, physically and mentally.

    hawknation2014 wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Robinson's tape because he isn't that explosive. The three most talked about WRs on this board (Evans, Robinson, and Benjamin) are not at the top of my wish list.

    You've got to admit, a 4.47 time in the 40, 42-inch vertical, 131 inches broad jump, and 6.53 three-cone is pretty good numbers for a guy that isn't that "explosive". His athleticism is deceptive.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:16 pm
  • SomersetHawk wrote:
    Sherminator wrote:I had him in the 2-3 round before the combine... But after I had him dropping to 5-6


    That's ridiculous. No way he was ever a 5-6 round pick, and I'd be incredibly surprised if he made it to the 3rd.


    Not as far-off as you might think.
    Excluding his pro-day, and only including the combine.

    Robinson is a guy known for being explosive, and a GREAT open field runner who is very agile for his size.
    At the combine he goes 4.6, 7sec 3 cone drill, 11.36 in the 60 shuttle... All VERY pedestrian times for a WR in the draft, let alone a WR who is known for the previous skill set I listed.

    To put things in perspective, Kevin Norwood (I know they aren't the same WR but they do play a very similar style, and in fact I think Norwood might have better hands) is projected to go rounds 5-6.
    At his combine he ran 4.47, 6.68 3 cone drill, and 11.46 in the 60 shuttle.
    ^Thats a better combine than Robinson.


    Looking at it from a draft perspective these are players I put in front of him after the combine (not in order of draft stock, just random)

    1. Watkins
    2. Evans
    3. Cooks
    4. Lee
    5. Beckham Jr
    6. Bryant
    7. Moncrief
    8. Benjamin
    9. Adams
    10. Matthews
    11. Richardson
    12. Ellington
    13. Landry
    14. Coleman
    15. Latminer

    ^All of those guys had better combines, I'm confident when I say teams would take these 15 players I have listed before Robinson

    Just for the sake of argument, and because I don't feel like doing a 4-5 round mock draft

    In 2013 the 15th WR taken was Kenny Stills with pick 144 (middle of round 5)
    In 2012 the 15th WR taken was Jarius Wright pick 118 (middle of round 4)
    In 2011 the 15th WR taken was Kealoha Pileras with the 1st pick of the 5th round
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:49 pm
  • Sherminator wrote:Excluding his pro-day, and only including the combine.

    Robinson is a guy known for being explosive, and a GREAT open field runner who is very agile for his size.
    At the combine he goes 4.6, 7sec 3 cone drill, 11.36 in the 60 shuttle... All VERY pedestrian times for a WR in the draft, let alone a WR who is known for the previous skill set I listed.

    To put things in perspective, Kevin Norwood (I know they aren't the same WR but they do play a very similar style, and in fact I think Norwood might have better hands) is projected to go rounds 5-6.
    At his combine he ran 4.47, 6.68 3 cone drill, and 11.46 in the 60 shuttle.
    ^Thats a better combine than Robinson.


    Looking at it from a draft perspective these are players I put in front of him after the combine (not in order of draft stock, just random)

    1. Watkins
    2. Evans
    3. Cooks
    4. Lee
    5. Beckham Jr
    6. Bryant
    7. Moncrief
    8. Benjamin
    9. Adams
    10. Matthews
    11. Richardson
    12. Ellington
    13. Landry
    14. Coleman
    15. Latminer

    ^All of those guys had better combines, I'm confident when I say teams would take these 15 players I have listed before Robinson



    Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:54 pm
  • SomersetHawk wrote:
    Sherminator wrote:Excluding his pro-day, and only including the combine.

    Robinson is a guy known for being explosive, and a GREAT open field runner who is very agile for his size.
    At the combine he goes 4.6, 7sec 3 cone drill, 11.36 in the 60 shuttle... All VERY pedestrian times for a WR in the draft, let alone a WR who is known for the previous skill set I listed.

    To put things in perspective, Kevin Norwood (I know they aren't the same WR but they do play a very similar style, and in fact I think Norwood might have better hands) is projected to go rounds 5-6.
    At his combine he ran 4.47, 6.68 3 cone drill, and 11.46 in the 60 shuttle.
    ^Thats a better combine than Robinson.


    Looking at it from a draft perspective these are players I put in front of him after the combine (not in order of draft stock, just random)

    1. Watkins
    2. Evans
    3. Cooks
    4. Lee
    5. Beckham Jr
    6. Bryant
    7. Moncrief
    8. Benjamin
    9. Adams
    10. Matthews
    11. Richardson
    12. Ellington
    13. Landry
    14. Coleman
    15. Latminer

    ^All of those guys had better combines, I'm confident when I say teams would take these 15 players I have listed before Robinson



    Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.
    \

    Robinson is a good athlete, but he doesn't show that explosiveness on film.

    I would have Marqise Lee 3rd because he has a bigger catching radius, better body control, and is more dynamic after the catch. I would also have Adams and Landry much higher for the same reasons.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:42 pm
  • hawknation2014 wrote:
    Robinson is a good athlete, but he doesn't show that explosiveness on film.

    I would have Marqise Lee 3rd because he has a bigger catching radius, better body control, and is more dynamic after the catch. I would also have Adams and Landry much higher for the same reasons.

    I like Landry, but he's not a "dynamic player after the catch". He's more a possession receiver ala Anquan Boldin. I don't think he's catching radius is that good either. If the ball hits his hands, it is going to be a completion which I think is why he'll succeed (strongest hands in his class), but he's not in the same category of Adams and Robinson in their ability to go up and get the ball.

    Image
    Image

    This article does a good job proving Landry's lack of YAC:
    "Jarvis Landry’s 5.5 yards after the catch is a bit disappointing. Operating out of the slot nearly 50% of the time, LSU puts him in a position to gain good yardage on slants and posts but he just hasn’t been able to translate that into excellent yardage after the catch."
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:47 pm
  • SomersetHawk wrote:Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.


    The original post I had talked about excludes his pro-day.
    I posted that I had done a draft ranking after the combine, before his pro-day. In that draft ranking I did I had him going round 5.

    I do agree his pro-day puts him back on top to round 1 (theres a small chance) most likely 2.

    I'm just saying, for the skill set he is known for, and the way he performed at the combine, a lot of GM's looked to other WR with similar skill sets that performed better. (thats just my thinking)

    I do agree about Norwood though. I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out why he is projected to go so low. I mean espn puts people like Josh Huff, Mike Davis, Tj Jones in front of him.
    Really?
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:48 pm
  • hawknation2014 wrote:
    SomersetHawk wrote:
    Sherminator wrote:Excluding his pro-day, and only including the combine.

    Robinson is a guy known for being explosive, and a GREAT open field runner who is very agile for his size.
    At the combine he goes 4.6, 7sec 3 cone drill, 11.36 in the 60 shuttle... All VERY pedestrian times for a WR in the draft, let alone a WR who is known for the previous skill set I listed.

    To put things in perspective, Kevin Norwood (I know they aren't the same WR but they do play a very similar style, and in fact I think Norwood might have better hands) is projected to go rounds 5-6.
    At his combine he ran 4.47, 6.68 3 cone drill, and 11.46 in the 60 shuttle.
    ^Thats a better combine than Robinson.


    Looking at it from a draft perspective these are players I put in front of him after the combine (not in order of draft stock, just random)

    1. Watkins
    2. Evans
    3. Cooks
    4. Lee
    5. Beckham Jr
    6. Bryant
    7. Moncrief
    8. Benjamin
    9. Adams
    10. Matthews
    11. Richardson
    12. Ellington
    13. Landry
    14. Coleman
    15. Latminer

    ^All of those guys had better combines, I'm confident when I say teams would take these 15 players I have listed before Robinson



    Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.
    \

    Robinson is a good athlete, but he doesn't show that explosiveness on film.

    I would have Marqise Lee 3rd because he has a bigger catching radius, better body control, and is more dynamic after the catch. I would also have Adams and Landry much higher for the same reasons.



    I do agree with you though
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:00 pm
  • Sherminator wrote:
    SomersetHawk wrote:Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.


    The original post I had talked about excludes his pro-day.
    I posted that I had done a draft ranking after the combine, before his pro-day. In that draft ranking I did I had him going round 5.

    I do agree his pro-day puts him back on top to round 1 (theres a small chance) most likely 2.

    I'm just saying, for the skill set he is known for, and the way he performed at the combine, a lot of GM's looked to other WR with similar skill sets that performed better. (thats just my thinking)


    Soooo..
    Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
    After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
    After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

    Really?? :lol: :lol:
    GM's do not use the combine and Pro Day as their main source of evaluation and they certainly wouldn't drop or raise the stock of a prospect +/- four rounds because of it, either.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:03 pm
  • Recon_Hawk wrote:
    Sherminator wrote:
    SomersetHawk wrote:Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.


    The original post I had talked about excludes his pro-day.
    I posted that I had done a draft ranking after the combine, before his pro-day. In that draft ranking I did I had him going round 5.

    I do agree his pro-day puts him back on top to round 1 (theres a small chance) most likely 2.

    I'm just saying, for the skill set he is known for, and the way he performed at the combine, a lot of GM's looked to other WR with similar skill sets that performed better. (thats just my thinking)


    Soooo..
    Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
    After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
    After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

    Really?? :lol: :lol:
    GM's do not use the combine and Pro Day as their main source of evaluation and they certainly wouldn't drop or raise the stock of a prospect +/- four rounds because of it, either.
    :49ersmall:


    I think that's right. Robinson is probably in that 50-75 range on most draft boards.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:14 pm
  • Recon_Hawk wrote:
    Soooo..
    Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
    After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
    After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

    Really?? :lol: :lol:
    GM's do not use the combine and Pro Day as their main source of evaluation and they certainly wouldn't drop or raise the stock of a prospect +/- four rounds because of it, either.
    :49ersmall:


    Not sure what the 49 logo has anything to do with this, but whatever.

    Actually GM's do use the combine AND pro-day as a HUGE source of evaluation.
    There have been pro-days and combines where a player has taken their draft stock WAY down. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen about 5 players in this years draft get bumped down 3-4 rounds because of a bad pro-day/combine.


    Besides, those rankings I posted are from my personal draft rankings, not anybody elses. I didn't say I was speaking on behalf of a GM, I claimed thats where I have him going.

    If you want to argue with me about my opinions on something I created, you already lost.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:44 pm
  • Sherminator wrote:
    SomersetHawk wrote:Sure, exclude his pro day, but then factor in that Robinson was 20lbs heavier than Norwood, and you excluded his short shuttle (PC and JS value it a lot higher) which was elite.

    It's all very well being confident in something that can't be proven, but there's no point arguing whether or not he'd have dropped to the 5/6 round on his combine (he wouldn't), cause the guy just tore up his pro day after shedding a few pounds and I doubt he sees it past the 2nd.

    Glad you bought up Norword though, now there's a forgotten WR that I rather like.


    The original post I had talked about excludes his pro-day.
    I posted that I had done a draft ranking after the combine, before his pro-day. In that draft ranking I did I had him going round 5.

    I do agree his pro-day puts him back on top to round 1 (theres a small chance) most likely 2.

    I'm just saying, for the skill set he is known for, and the way he performed at the combine, a lot of GM's looked to other WR with similar skill sets that performed better. (thats just my thinking)

    I do agree about Norwood though. I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out why he is projected to go so low. I mean espn puts people like Josh Huff, Mike Davis, Tj Jones in front of him.
    Really?


    Norwoord's age may have him downgraded a couple rounds. Norwoord is 24 years old whereas Robinson is only 20 years old. Also another thing to consider is that Robinson's playing weight (between 208 -210 lbs) is 10 - 15 pounds more than Norwood.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:56 pm
  • Recon_Hawk wrote:Soooo..
    Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
    After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
    After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"

    Really?? :lol: :lol:
    GM's do not use the combine and Pro Day as their main source of evaluation and they certainly wouldn't drop or raise the stock of a prospect +/- four rounds because of it, either.
    :49ersmall:

    Sherminator wrote:Not sure what the 49 logo has anything to do with this, but whatever.

    You're right. My bad, I can't help it. It's second nature to throw a jab at 49er fans.

    Actually GM's do use the combine AND pro-day as a HUGE source of evaluation.

    "Huge" =/= "Main", but I'll bite. No, they don't use the test measurables as a "HUGE" source of evaluation. (it goes without saying medical and interviews ARE very important).

    The test measurable are only a small small part of the draft process to Scouts and GMs because they will already have a very good idea of what the the players at the combine bring to the table. To fans and media, a prospects grade will change up or down because they are way behind the scouting community in their grades. To Scouts and GM's, their draft grade will vary little. Read this article by The Boston Globe,Pro Day workouts mean little to NFL teams:

    "The Pro Day is only a tiny piece of the overall scouting equation." “At the end of the day, the tape and the fall grades are the most important grades,” - NFL executive

    "“It may be indicative of a bigger problem, or it may have just been a bad day,” said Riddick. “You never want to ever go 180 from your original evaluation based off of a Pro Day, ever. It should never make you flip-flop or change your opinion. But it will make you go back and reevaluate and watch more film and make sure you’re not missing something.” - Louis Riddick, ex-scout

    There have been pro-days and combines where a player has taken their draft stock WAY down. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen about 5 players in this years draft get bumped down 3-4 rounds because of a bad pro-day/combine.

    And you know this how, exactly? Either share the name of active general managers or scouts you know that dropped a prospects draft stock because of a bad pro-day/combine or lets stick to facts. Those draft grades you read on CBS and ESPN aren't based on reality.

    "It isn't crazy to think some scouts are ahead of journalists when it comes to player analysis." - Mike Hagen, ex-scout

    Besides, those rankings I posted are from my personal draft rankings, not anybody elses. I didn't say I was speaking on behalf of a GM, I claimed thats where I have him going.

    If you want to argue with me about my opinions on something I created, you already lost.


    You wrote that after the combine, you were "confident teams would take 15" receivers over Allen Robinson based on his combine, but now after his Pro-Day he's back in first round discussion?

    I'm not arguing your list. You can flip-flop your draft grades all you want. I'm arguing that the combine and pro-day numbers don't affect a players draft stock to GMs and scouts as much as you seem to think.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:33 pm
  • Instead of starting another Allen Robinson, I thought I'd add this draft nugget By Russ Lande:

    Although he lacks the rare size of Mike Evans, Robinson has consistently been mentioned in the same breath by NFL personnel -- as a big, thickly built receiver with great ball skills that could be a game changer at the next level. Few big receivers are as polished coming into the league as he is, and combined with his willingness to catch passes in heavy traffic right before taking big hits, he has all the tools to make an immediate impact. Scouts have told me that teams looking for a big-bodied receiver could get the same value waiting and taking him in the bottom of the first round rather than trading up to go after Evans. Aside from size, they feel there's no real comparison between him and Kelvin Benjamin when it comes to on-field consistency, effort and production -- which is why they expect Robinson will be drafted ahead of Benjamin.

    Read the rest here.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:53 pm
  • Jordan Matthews is going to be the WR steal of the draft. He'll produce, and keep producing. He's got that chip on his shoulder.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:39 am
  • IMO We got guys who can win on open field deep routes already. What we lack is guys who can win their route and separate in the red zone.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:17 am
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:Jordan Matthews is going to be the WR steal of the draft. He'll produce, and keep producing. He's got that chip on his shoulder.


    He is the one WR I don't want. There are 10-15 I prefer over him.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:22 am
  • Recon_Hawk wrote:Soooo..
    Before combine: "He's a 2nd/3rd pick"
    After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A 5th round pick!"
    After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A 1st/2nd round pick!"



    More like
    Before combine: "He's a early to late 2nd pick"
    After combine: "OMG those test numbers! A late 2nd to mid 3rd round pick!"
    After ProDay: "OMG those test numbers! A mid 2nd to early 3rd round pick!"

    When the Seahawks find their guy they get him. If they wanted Robinson they might have to use their 1st.
    Besides his 40 he actually had numbers that showed him to be very explosive.

    combine #'s
    39" Vert (#6 tied and #1 Reese with 41.5" and #3 Moncrief & Adams 39.5")
    10'7" Broad Jump (#3 tied with M. Lee with #1 Moncrief @ 11')
    4.0 Short Shuttle (#7 with #1 Cooks @ 3.81 and #3 Beckham @ 3.94)

    So Basically his numbers showed the truth his in not a deep burner but can get jump balls and is quick enough to get some seperation and use his big body to shield the defender. I'd be happy with Robinson but would prefer him at #64 and his pro day might have just bumped him up higher than that.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:27 pm
  • Robinson is the best "big" WR in one important category - sinking his hips and generating separation at the top of his route, at least with short and mid range. The burst shows on his YAC too, he can cut and get back to full speed like a smaller receiver.

    I'm less than thrilled with some jump balls I have seen, and he's not a "take the top off the defense" threat, but his tape screams Keenan Allen, but honestly more athletic talent. I don't know where he will go, and I half suspect Seattle is targeting a better deep ball threat, but someone is going to get great production out of him (if his head is on straight - I know nothing about his character).
    Last edited by Snohomie on Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forgotten WR?
Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:34 pm
  • There is no way in hell Allen Robinson was ever dropping to Round 6. Whoever says that is crazy.

    I've loved this kid since I watched his tape.. he's going to be a Pro Bowl WR one day. I firmly believe it.
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