Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario

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Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:01 am
  • Suppose the Jaguars could sign C Alex Mack away from the Browns. Or I guess this scenario also works if Jacksonville is looking to buy a veteran Center.

    Could you accept the Seahawks, if they wanted to, throwing Max Unger at either team for a 3rd Round pick, Browns are 71st overall and Jags are 70.

    For the Browns, Mack to Unger is a drop-off but bang for your buck wise I'd say Unger wins.

    The rest of Unger's contract is for 3 yrs, $13.75m in Base Salary and $17.3m in actual cap hits.

    The rumor is Mack is looking at $22m alone in guaranteed money. So, Browns would be saving quite a bit and that 3rd round investment lost doesn't look too bad as they have 2 first rounders, a high 2nd rounder, 2 third round picks plus multiple fourth and sixth round picks. Unger for a 3rd round pick isn't bad in a draft where there isn't a home-run threat for the position.

    Jaguars also have 2 fourth rounders, 3 fifth rounders, and two sixth rounders. So, losing that 3rd round picks doesn't hurt as well especially if they can get a team like the 49ers to throw them thier kitchen sink for a chance at Watkins/Evans.

    For the Seahawks, they would save another $6.1m against the cap in 2014 plus $5.6m both in '15 and '16.

    And the drop-off from Unger to Lemuel Jeanpierre isn't that substantial and I would even say LJP is a better fit for the system because he's a stronger run blocker and more stout against the bull-rush. Not to mention cheaper at $.95m in 2014. LJP might not be as tech savvy or heads up as Unger but that will come with consistent starting experience.

    Furthermore, to fill Jeanpierre's back-up role Seahawks can sign Samson Satele for a 1 yr, vet min deal who was drafted by Cable in Oakland IIRC. There is also Jonathon Goodwin among a couple of other veteran centers.

    Note: I'm not fully advocating or posturing for such a move but just creating a possible hypothetical in a very slow off-season discussion.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:08 am
  • Quite simply, no.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:11 am
  • Carroll recently mentioned Sherman, ET, Russell, and Unger as guys who get it and understand what Carroll and the staff are preaching.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:37 am
  • Hypothetically the answer is no.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:48 am
  • I am not one to mess with 0-Line continuity if it can be avoided.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:48 am
  • That's some creative roster movement, and freeing up money is a good thing.

    But when healthy, Unger is All-Pro quality. And when dinged up, he plays through injury admirably. I've thought he and Wilson could have a long partnership like Saturday/Manning where the two know the system and the play-to-play reads as well as anyone on the field.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:51 am
  • For as hard as it is to field a good o-line, trading away even a decent lineman is just asking for trouble.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:59 am
  • Cartire wrote:For as hard as it is to field a good o-line, trading away even a decent lineman is just asking for trouble.


    I agree.
    And new guys if even a little better, still need time, getting up to speed.
    Not worth the gamble IMO
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:46 am
  • At first, I thought you were trying to figure out a way to trade Unger and pick up Mack.

    I'd really like to see Mack on this team; he's durable and more physical than Unger, with all the smarts thrown in. If he isn't the best Center in the league, he's in the discussion.

    That said, we couldn't afford Mack. JeanPierre is a good option, and I think we signed him to another 1 year deal to see how Unger looks this year. If he can't stay healthy, I'd be ok with signing Lem and trading Unger. I didn't see a lot of drop off with JeanPierre in there as opposed to Unger, while the run blocking looked a lot better.

    I like Unger a lot, but he just didn't seem really any better than Lem did last year. The other question would be: accounting for Unger's injury, does JeanPierre's upside come close to, or surpass Unger's level of play? If so, there's another place we can save money.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:40 am
  • Not even a chance in my mind. Why trade your all-pro center for a third rounder in a draft where it will be hard to replace and in a season your looking to draft a RT and Guard? No thank you.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:21 am
  • Would take that deal in a second.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:31 am
  • Why does everyone want to hate Unger so much?
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:34 am
  • People around here REALLY underrate Unger.

    It's a shame.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:43 am
  • thank God someone made a new post! No, I wouldn't just want to get rid of Unger but I would be up with trading him IF I knew that we could add another guy in his place for less. Unger hasn't played up to his pay and if there's a hint that this will be a similar season for him, I'd take the risk and send him off. Mack would be in upgrade but I'm sure the front office doesn't want to pay that kind of cash. I think we just have too much OL needs this year to add to them. Next year sounds good with anyone including Okung or Unger if they're not performing.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:49 am
  • I really think Unger played injured for a majority of 2013. He just never looked right following the couple of games he missed due to his arm.. I mean snaps were erratic, blocking was hit and miss, etc.

    I think Max looks more like Max in 2014 when he's healed up and 100%.

    So no.. would not move him for a 3rd. Especially since the interior of our line is already a pretty weak spot on the team.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:57 am
  • drdevin wrote:thank God someone made a new post! No, I wouldn't just want to get rid of Unger but I would be up with trading him IF I knew that we could add another guy in his place for less. Unger hasn't played up to his pay and if there's a hint that this will be a similar season for him, I'd take the risk and send him off. Mack would be in upgrade but I'm sure the front office doesn't want to pay that kind of cash. I think we just have too much OL needs this year to add to them. Next year sounds good with anyone including Okung or Unger if they're not performing.


    Considering he went on to be named All-Pro, 2x Pro Bowl, and won the Superbowl after he got his contract i'd say he was fairly compensated.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:32 am
  • Wow, you shud call coach Pete AND scneider and let them know the plan
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:26 pm
  • I would actually be good with this scenario. The 3rd round picks would be early in the round, it would give us a shot at a very good player in this deep draft. It would save a bunch of money and it seemed like Lem played better than Unger every chance he got. Unger was still getting beat in the Super Bowl.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:26 pm
  • Very well though out plan, I love Jean-Pierre as a starter. Satele is a capable backup, and Jared Smith could fill in as well. Would take this deal, no question.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:07 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:Why does everyone want to hate Unger so much?


    I dislike Unger for 1 simple reason.
    I don't trust his shotgun snaps.
    You could probably count on 1 hand, how many times Russell didn't have to adjust to his snaps.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:10 pm
  • If we sucked I 'd go for the deal ..We are trying to repeat so can't screw around with key guys on the line..I say no deal..
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:43 pm
  • Center play is so hard to judge on its own as the play of the rest of the line affects it so much, especially the guard play. Everybody complained so much about our guard play last year, esp. at LG, that I find it interesting so many want to throw Max under the bus while he played injured thru all that bad guard play. He played at an all pro level before last year so I think he can certainly get back to that if we improve LG, he gets healthy, and the Sweez continues to improve. I know that sounds like a lot of ifs but none of it is that far fetched (except maybe the LG spot but that should in theory be the most improvable being the worst and all :mrgreen: ).
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:49 pm
  • Unger had a terrible season last year. Hopefully that was due to injuries and he will return to his awesome 2012 form. That said, I don't think I could make the decision until I knew if the training staff believed that Max would be able to return to health
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:00 pm
  • Hypothetical threads should get their own forum. Or just put them in the Fantasy forum where they belong.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:00 pm
  • CALIHAWK1 wrote:Hypothetical threads should get their own forum. Or just put them in the Fantasy forum where they belong.


    If it wasn't for this, the Sherman Autograph thread and the MJ/Russ thread...I wouldn't have opened a single thread upon refreshing the site. It's super slow and boring right now....I don't see how a thread like this hurts anything.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:16 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:Why does everyone want to hate Unger so much?


    I don't hate Unger, I just like Mack a lot better. He matches up well against even elite NT's 1 on 1, run blocks better than Unger, is more durable than Unger, and has all the pass pro Unger brings to the table as well. I'm fine keeping Unger as long as last season was due to injury, or bad Guard play...whatever. Going way back to Unger's rookie year, I defended him when the Hawks played him at Guard and folks on this board were calling him a bust. I pointed out that Center is his more natural position and not to sweat him looking underwhelming at Guard....so I've stuck up for the guy.

    I also don't "hate" Unger when I say that last year, JeanPierre looked just as good as Unger did, with a ton less snaps and experience. His run blocking looked better. We ran the ball better when Lem was in there for Unger.

    Now, it could be from injury, or from poor Guard play next to him, whatever the case may be, but JeanPierre looked just as good to me (and better in the run game) and he costs a ton less.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:27 pm
  • nepahawk wrote:
    CANHawk wrote:Why does everyone want to hate Unger so much?


    I dislike Unger for 1 simple reason.
    I don't trust his shotgun snaps.
    You could probably count on 1 hand, how many times Russell didn't have to adjust to his snaps.


    ugh. dumb post o the day
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:51 pm
  • I don't think a third/money savings would be worth the drop off at center. I'd file this one under why mess with a good thing.

    Right now there isn't anything we'd spend the money on that would augment this years team and a third while valuable isn't usually a plug and play player.

    Get Unger back healthy and I think we'll be happy we have him.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:51 pm
  • Smellyman wrote:
    nepahawk wrote:
    CANHawk wrote:Why does everyone want to hate Unger so much?


    I dislike Unger for 1 simple reason.
    I don't trust his shotgun snaps.
    You could probably count on 1 hand, how many times Russell didn't have to adjust to his snaps.


    ugh. dumb post o the day


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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:14 pm
  • Mojambo wrote:People around here REALLY underrate Unger.

    It's a shame.


    I have/will continue to post it in every single thread....if you think that Unger

    1. Is not an all pro center

    2. Is not one of the top two lineman on this team

    3. Was not injured half the season

    4. Is not as good as JP....

    you have never played football, or you don't appreciate what a tough job being in the trenches is.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:46 pm
  • I wouldn't do it for just a 3rd.

    Unger was a 2nd Round pick and he's a Pro Bowl Center. Just doesn't seem like enough value back for me.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:56 pm
  • HawkFan72 wrote:I wouldn't do it for just a 3rd.

    Unger was a 2nd Round pick and he's a Pro Bowl Center. Just doesn't seem like enough value back for me.

    ditto
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:53 pm
  • So you're saying if the Browns lost Mack and became desperate to replace him, and they offered thier #71 pick for Unger but the Seahawks hard balled it and got the Browns to eventually give up their #35 pick.

    Then it would be worth it?
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:42 pm
  • To me the point is that LJP looked really, really good in the times he was a starter. So I see where this is going. If we can free up $5M plus a 3rd rounder to improve the team elsewhere...
    But where? Who would we pick up at this point that would be better use of the $5M? We could also draft a bust with the pick.

    I would want LJP signed to at least a 3 year deal before even thinking about dealing Unger. LJP may be to Max Unger as Byron Maxwell was to Brandon Browner. A guy who steps in for an all pro and outplays the all-pro.
    Granted, Unger was injured most of the year. LJP did a bang-up job replacing him.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:44 am
  • Veilside wrote:
    CALIHAWK1 wrote:Hypothetical threads should get their own forum. Or just put them in the Fantasy forum where they belong.


    If it wasn't for this, the Sherman Autograph thread and the MJ/Russ thread...I wouldn't have opened a single thread upon refreshing the site. It's super slow and boring right now....I don't see how a thread like this hurts anything.


    Its the offseason. It doesnt change the fact that its lame and shouldnt be in the maim forum.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:44 am
  • It's a no from me.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:40 am
  • In NFL terms, Unger is just hitting his stride. He could have several more seasons here, playing at a high level. Maybe more. You don't dump guys like that without something tangible to back it up. JP was good when he was in, but we don't know how he'd do over the long haul.

    So, no.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:02 am
  • no.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:43 am
  • Unger is overrated by many. He is serviceable but not dominant at all. People say it's cause he's injured. Well he must be injured quite often cause there really isn't anything dominant about his game.

    We are getting by with him. Would love to upgrade that position.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:33 pm
  • I'd rather upgrade LG, RG, and RT.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:32 pm
  • Mark this. Unger is All-Pro next season. Period.
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Re: Hypothetical Mack/Unger Scenario
Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:58 pm
  • Unger is an average center he gives up to much ground at the point of attack.
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