Does the Allen deal change our draft?

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Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:03 am
  • What do you think?

    As of right now the FA market is dry and we lose MC Donald and Clem. We are left with the drafted/injured players from last year as replacements?
    Last edited by Largent80 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • If Chicago's signing Allen and Dallas' signing Melton help Aaron Donald fall into our clutches, I'm all for it.
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  • it might actually
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  • I am sure Pete is looking at LEOs in this draft, already.

    We need young, cheap, long term guy. Luckily we don't need him right away, not do we have to draft high.

    Should be fun seeing who Pete picks and what round.

    I am going to follow seahawksdraftblog more to see what English thinks of mid round LEOs
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  • Yeah, if Donald starts to slide to the 15+ range -- I'd have to think we'd be interested in possibly moving up.

    Seattle loves productive guys who test well. Donald really blew the lid off of both. If he drops because of size concerns I'd have to think we'd consider him a special talent worth being aggressive on.
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  • Sam might be an UDFA who gets signed by the Hawks for camp. But there are other Leo candidates in the draft who are draftable.
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  • Dee Ford might be an option.
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  • "Change?" IDK. Just saying it that way implies they were planning on signing Allen, which I don't know is completely true. I mean, he never was truly 'in the bag' for us.

    Sure, it affects the draft, as it is a small hole that it would be nice to fill. If the FO thought it was a critical juncture, they would have approached the whole Allen negotiations more like last year with Avril and Bennett. They would have shown more urgency, if you will.

    As it is, I'm not shaking in my boots at the current situation, with the entire draft coming up and a couple of young guys who just might be ready to step up and contribute in a major way. Given our scouting crew's ability to find talent and our coaching staff's ability to coach it up, I'm pretty confident we'll all have forgotten Allen's name by December.
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  • the Leo I see in this draft that could make a difference day one is Marcus Smith,DE,Louisville. He has the length,speed,coordination, and natural pass rush ability that Seattle looks for in its players. would make a good 3rd down rotational player. I would try to use next years 5th rounder to trade up a few spots to get him in the fourth because I bet the compensatory picks should be good next year especially with us missing out on Jared Allen.
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  • I honestly don't see the glaring need on d-line. Avril and Bennett can share reps at LEO. Jordan Hill gets more reps as an interior rusher. Irvin moves into Avril's strong-side rusher role. We had an embarrassment of riches on D-Line last year. The FO never planned to land both Avril and Bennett. In terms of pure depth chart, the D-Line is pretty solid right now.

    I think if they had the chance to draft a DE they liked, they would've drafted him regardless if they had gotten Allen or not.
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  • I don't think so. If they were that concerned, they would have kept Clem.

    Also, it isn't the deepest of DE drafts. I suspect we will get one later in the draft, there are a couple of projects that are athletic freaks.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:49 am
  • It's more of a depth issue, with the players playing half the snaps. A mid-round prospect could bolster that from beneath. The problem will be next year when Avril's out of here.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:39 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:I don't think so. If they were that concerned, they would have kept Clem.

    Also, it isn't the deepest of DE drafts. I suspect we will get one later in the draft, there are a couple of projects that are athletic freaks.


    I don't want to make too big a deal out of it, but I think the Clemons decision backfired on them. I think their expectation was that Clemons would have zero market and that in a worst case scenario, they could sign him back for peanuts. Instead, he signs immediately in Jacksonville, for decent money too. There are still some veteran options out there, but I think they would have preferred Clemons out of that group because of scheme fit and familiarity. Had they held on to him longer, or attempted a restructure while pointing to the ice-cold markets of Spencer / Phillips, they could have probably kept him for a reasonable sum of money.

    That said, I think Schofield was roughly as good at LEO last season as Clemons was, and we could probably get him back dirt cheap. I hope we do.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:46 am
  • kearly wrote: I think Schofield was roughly as good at LEO last season as Clemons was, and we could probably get him back dirt cheap. I hope we do.


    Me too, and I'm kinda wondering why we haven't done that.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:52 am
  • Largent80 wrote:
    kearly wrote: I think Schofield was roughly as good at LEO last season as Clemons was, and we could probably get him back dirt cheap. I hope we do.


    Me too, and I'm kinda wondering why we haven't done that.



    He just had something like 8 million ripped from underneath him. Im sure he's still looking to make some money and get more PT before he would even entertain coming back here "dirt cheap"

    I think this offseason has definitely proved that money trumps all.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:06 pm
  • Well, nobody is breaking down the door to get him, so he has some sort of unrealistic fantasy. He wasn't injured here so I'm wondering WTF.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:20 pm
  • Marcus Smith is a guy the Hawks have been linked to at DE and would be a option at #64
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  • Does the Allen deal change our draft?


    Short answer: not really.

    Longer answer: sort of.

    Seattle drafts based on a roster differential score. So if there is a position that grades as a 65 and a prospect who grades as a 75, that would be a draft score of +10. This is why Seattle has generally drafted for need, unless there was some amazing talent they just couldn't say no to (Christine Michael, or arguably Percy Harvin). Right now we are pretty weak at our backup LEO spot, so every pass rusher in this draft will have a higher than average score for Seattle. I don't think we will draft one though, because these pass rushers just aren't very good and our need is even greater at WR where there will be some terrific players available.

    So yeah, it will "change" the way our draft will be conducted, but it is very unlikely to result in a pass rusher getting taken early by Seattle. I would look to rounds 5-7 for Seattle to add some DL guys who are flawed but fit a role of some kind. And these guys will not be counted on at all in 2014, just players that could maybe turn into contributors a few years from now.
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  • I'm a long time poker player... football now days is a game of poker, you have to know when to trade good cards you have for a chance at better ones, and you need to when to hold on to cards that have potential to win the game.

    I trust the FO and our staff to make the best plays and and decisions with what we have, what we know and what we hope for.

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  • There are still guys out there in FA who could do very well on our line..There are some players who are going to be cut before June who are good..I mean it's pretty simple to me that if the fo id's players who
    fit the profile ..They will grab them or trade for them which happens a lot on draft day..So I'm going to just have fun and see what happens..We will be pretty good regardless of any move...
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  • kearly wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:I don't think so. If they were that concerned, they would have kept Clem.

    Also, it isn't the deepest of DE drafts. I suspect we will get one later in the draft, there are a couple of projects that are athletic freaks.


    I don't want to make too big a deal out of it, but I think the Clemons decision backfired on them. I think their expectation was that Clemons would have zero market and that in a worst case scenario, they could sign him back for peanuts. Instead, he signs immediately in Jacksonville, for decent money too. There are still some veteran options out there, but I think they would have preferred Clemons out of that group because of scheme fit and familiarity. Had they held on to him longer, or attempted a restructure while pointing to the ice-cold markets of Spencer / Phillips, they could have probably kept him for a reasonable sum of money.

    That said, I think Schofield was roughly as good at LEO last season as Clemons was, and we could probably get him back dirt cheap. I hope we do.


    Interesting. My thoughts were that Pete and Schneider had a plan in place. They cut both Red and Clem. Didn't ask to restructure, didn't see if there was a trade market.
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  • So when our pick comes up we just take the best available player between the remaining pass rushers, OL, or WR ? Or do we prioritize one possition need over the others?
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:10 am
  • brimsalabim wrote:So when our pick comes up we just take the best available player between the remaining pass rushers, OL, or WR ? Or do we prioritize one possition need over the others?


    It will come down to grades on the board.

    Seattle is moving away from a 'need based' draft. In 2010/11/12 and 13 -- the draft has always been prefaced by Pete with a pretty candid admission for what the team needs going into the offseason. This year however we heard a completely new dictate: Need to get better everywhere.

    I expect it will be a blend of top grade relative to what we have -- combined with grades expected to be available down the line. I can see us passing on the BPA grade at 32 in favor of a lesser grade if that BPA graded position has a lot of good grades left on the board.

    We expect the OL grades to be high, because it's a position of perceived need. But that's not necessarily the case. Seattle has a unique skillset that they require to execute their ZBS scheme. So a lot of prospects that have a high outside grade could be very low on our own board. If there are 12 OL prospects graded in the top 75 -- maybe only 6 of them would even be on our board at all.

    Similarly, the WR position is also considered a need position. The draft is unusually thick in WRs capable of being in the top 75. But not all of them are going to be ones on our board. We don't even really know if we're going to replace Tate via the draft. I expected Tate to walk and for us to replace him with a competition of Baldwin and Kearse. I wouldn't even concede that most of the day 2 WRs in this class will grade favorably relative to Kearse. We like him internally and he has developed exceedingly well. He's a very good #2 WR and is still improving.

    We certainly have an opening at the X. Chris Matthews is currently the guy at that position. His grade is probably non existent. There are a lot of options that would address that position and some of them still in day 3 of the draft. I don't believe it's a given that we go big WR at 32.

    It's an interesting draft. Made more so by the lack of real need on the team. Seattle could go virtually any direction. I could see us going in different directions entirely (TE/DB/LB) too.

    The reason for that is pretty simple. We don't know what the basis for our grades on the existing roster will be. In particular -- we don't know if expected attrition in 2015 will factor into our 2014 grades. If it does, then our board expands tremendously.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:48 am

Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 am
  • Lords of Scythia wrote:
    SacHawk2.0 wrote:Who plays 5 card draw anymore?

    I do, but only if it's 2 draws and several wild cards--I want to be able to build a royale flush.


    lol that's not poker. That's bingo.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:57 am
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    brimsalabim wrote:So when our pick comes up we just take the best available player between the remaining pass rushers, OL, or WR ? Or do we prioritize one possition need over the others?


    It will come down to grades on the board.

    Seattle is moving away from a 'need based' draft. In 2010/11/12 and 13 -- the draft has always been prefaced by Pete with a pretty candid admission for what the team needs going into the offseason. This year however we heard a completely new dictate: Need to get better everywhere.

    I expect it will be a blend of top grade relative to what we have -- combined with grades expected to be available down the line. I can see us passing on the BPA grade at 32 in favor of a lesser grade if that BPA graded position has a lot of good grades left on the board.

    We expect the OL grades to be high, because it's a position of perceived need. But that's not necessarily the case. Seattle has a unique skillset that they require to execute their ZBS scheme. So a lot of prospects that have a high outside grade could be very low on our own board. If there are 12 OL prospects graded in the top 75 -- maybe only 6 of them would even be on our board at all.

    Similarly, the WR position is also considered a need position. The draft is unusually thick in WRs capable of being in the top 75. But not all of them are going to be ones on our board. We don't even really know if we're going to replace Tate via the draft. I expected Tate to walk and for us to replace him with a competition of Baldwin and Kearse. I wouldn't even concede that most of the day 2 WRs in this class will grade favorably relative to Kearse. We like him internally and he has developed exceedingly well. He's a very good #2 WR and is still improving.

    We certainly have an opening at the X. Chris Matthews is currently the guy at that position. His grade is probably non existent. There are a lot of options that would address that position and some of them still in day 3 of the draft. I don't believe it's a given that we go big WR at 32.

    It's an interesting draft. Made more so by the lack of real need on the team. Seattle could go virtually any direction. I could see us going in different directions entirely (TE/DB/LB) too.

    The reason for that is pretty simple. We don't know what the basis for our grades on the existing roster will be. In particular -- we don't know if expected attrition in 2015 will factor into our 2014 grades. If it does, then our board expands tremendously.


    Doesn't Percy Harvin play Tate's position? I thought there was some conflict there, getting them both on the field at the same time. Seems like the obvious move would be to just use Percy, and draft the tall physical guy to take on the role Rice was supposed to play.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:24 pm
  • Lords of Scythia wrote:Doesn't Percy Harvin play Tate's position? I thought there was some conflict there, getting them both on the field at the same time. Seems like the obvious move would be to just use Percy, and draft the tall physical guy to take on the role Rice was supposed to play.


    No, Harvin plays the slot. That's been Baldwin's primary position but he's also played Z. Kearse was 2nd string at X and Z receiver. Tate 1st at Z. Rice 1st at X.

    Kearse is more suited to play Z and could excel there.

    The real void is at the X receiver (Split end). Both Baldwin and Kearse can work Tate's position and Baldwin can continue to work the slot should Harvin be lost for any length of time.
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Re: Does the Allen deal change our draft?
Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:11 pm
  • To an extent when Tate was drafted it was to be a Harvin type. Then we got Harvin.
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