Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32

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Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:16 pm
  • I posted earlier about the best OG vs middle of the pack WR. Kelvin Benjamin was in that pack. But Benjamin is not anymore he is in the first rounders category for me(Evans,Watkins,OBJ,M.Lee,Cooks,Benjamin). So below is my take on both players I think would make the best fit for Seattle with the 32nd pick.


    Kelvin Benjamin:
    After watching the pro-day and thinking about how Seattle made a play for Jermichael Finley in free agency I think if Benjamin is their at 32 Seattle definitley takes him. Basically the same body type and present the same mis-matches if Benjamin stays at the weight he's at now. I expected Benjamin to be maxed out physically at 240 pounds but he looked like he could add 5 to 10 pounds of muscle and still look the part of a big play WR rather than TE. Benjamin carries his weight way better than Alshon Jeffrey did in college. I heard anaylyst say on T.V. he could lose weight as far as being more lean and lighter but he looks like a physical speciman that is at his best jumping up and getting the ball. Benjamin would step in and be the outlet when things break down. The easy throw it up where only Benjamin can get it to move the chains would be a nice pairing with the home run speed of P. Harvin. I like the potential for Benjamin as a blocker also.


    Joel Bitonio:
    I like him and think he would be a good plug n play fit for Cable's zone blocking scheme. Bitonio is basically a McQuistan totally maxed out on PED's lol. But i mean I think he is very McQuistan-esque but with way more athleticism. Nothing fancy to his game just would be a solid pick if no good WR or top DT is available.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:33 am
  • I kinda get a McQuistan vibe too, as long as we are both talking about only the good plays McQuistan made.

    Though I dislike Benjamin, I would worry about John Schneider pulling a hamstring from sprinting to the podium so hard to take him at #32. Kelvin Benjamin is basically this year's Cordarrelle Patterson or Dez Bryant in the sense that he has top 10 pick tools but has big enough problems that he might reach the mid twenties.

    Bitonio will probably go pretty close to our second round pick. He's not the kind of guy teams would reach for and it sounds like teams view him as a late 2nd, early 3rd kind of guy.

    I would take Bitonio, but I think we could wait and have a very good chance to get him at #64. Benjamin has talent but has so much to learn and I'm not sure he has the kind of attitude he needs to develop.
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  • Why do I get BMW flashbacks from Benjamin?
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  • Lynch Mob wrote:I posted earlier about the best OG vs middle of the pack WR..


    That makes no sense. If James Carpenter was in this draft and he was the first guard off the board at 32 and Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Aj Green, and demaryius Thomas was in this draft would you consider Thomas middle of the pack and take carpenter because he's the highest rated guard prospect?
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  • Bitonio is a reach at 32 and KB would be a surprise to drop to 32. If they are both there its no question who they would pick. KB is a guy who would normally go somewhere in after 10 in a normal year but if we have a chance at him at 32 you jump on it.
    If no one else drops to 32 (Odell, KB, Donald, Tuitt, Morgan Moses, Zach martin, Hageman) then I guess I would be fine with Bitonio but he isn't exactly a bull dozing lineman(and yes I realize that isn't mandatory with zbs but I present to you Carpenter). Yes he tested well in drills but on tape he doesn't exactly show it. I really would expect him to be available at 64 to be honest.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:58 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:Why do I get BMW flashbacks from Benjamin?


    Cuz they're both big as hell, but thats where the comparison stops.

    BMW could catch.
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  • kearly wrote:Bitonio will probably go pretty close to our second round pick. He's not the kind of guy teams would reach for and it sounds like teams view him as a late 2nd, early 3rd kind of guy.


    Pauline reported last week Bitonio is solidly in round two and rising.
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  • Benjamin can make the spectacular catch, but miss the easy grab between the numbers, a concentration issue. There's a lot in common with BMW, Benjamin and that guy who could still be a Seahawk pending getting medically cleared, Finley... the latter has a low investment cost and you could use that #32 or #64 pick to address another need, you could still pick a receiver, but a different type of receiver, or o-line, or D-line, or a corner.
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  • I kind of hope Benjamin is gone before our pick.. I can't stand when guys drop balls.
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  • jhern87 wrote:I kind of hope Benjamin is gone before our pick.. I can't stand when guys drop balls.



    Concentration can be corrected. I can't speak to your other anger point.
    I am a firm believer in luck, and I found that the harder I work the more I have of it.
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  • Benjamin, its not even close. Unreal athleticism, definitely a game breaker. He'll be long gone before hawks pick. Bitonio is overrated. Cable can take any of these guys and make them a decent zone blocker. Wouldn't waste a first round pick on him.
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  • jake206 wrote:Bitonio is overrated.


    You mean by all the national pundits who never talk about him?
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  • I'm may be in the minority but I'd rather have Jordan Matthews at 32 than either of those two guys. In fact, I'd rather have Matthews more than most players in this draft.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfoPwGsNhco

    PLAY.

    MAKER.

    (Oh, he's also 6'3" 212 lbs, ran a combine 4.46 40 yard dash, had the fifth largest wingspan and second largest hands at the combine. He also caught 247 balls for 3578 yards and 23 TDs over the last three seasons. So there's that.)
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  • We would regret passing up Benjamin. Not only would I be very happy if we got him, I would be happy if we traded up for him. We are the type of team that can take advantage of his unique abilities. He may not be able to run every route like many WR's but we would not need him too. There are not too many 6'5 242lb WR's. A 4.61 40 is not bad considering he will be able to out jump and overpower most NFL DB's. I can see a Mike Williams type that can snatch the ball with his hands while shielding defenders away on quick slants, how many times did Wilson fail to connect with Tate on hose quick slants? Put a big long strider out there an I see teams giving him a big cushion going inside into traffic where he can break tackles. He is a powerfull blocker and that fits well with our run game, he might not be perfect but has glimpses of sher dominance pushing defenders back 5 plus yards. He is just a hair slower and night quite as quick but goes up in traffic and gets the ball as good as Mike Evans does, considering he will be gone top 15 and Benjamin is a 20-32 guy I think he's a steal.

    With Percey's Speed and Baldwin routes an knack for getting open we'd have 3 very diffrent and unique WR's. We dont need a burner to take the top off we just need a guy Russ can throw at with confidence that he will win the jump ball, I think Benjamin who is still very raw will become a huge threat on the outside for somebody, he is a very high upside guy, I don't why but I really really like the idea of Benjamin in the 1st. I'd give up a 5th or 4th next year to move up to #26 ahead of NO, CAR, NE, and SF who are all WR needy teams.

    Put us in SF's situation in the NFC Championship. Same fade route to the End Zone that Kap tried to get to Crabtree.

    Who would you want to throw the ball to?
    Mike Evans
    Kelvin Benjamin
    Brandon Coleman
    Martavius Bryant
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:18 pm
  • I would take Benjamin, but I am a lot higher on him than most around here. His field speed is much better than what his combine numbers would lead you to believe. It is rare that you see a man his size constantly blow by corners with ease and stretch the field the way he does. He literally just runs by guys, which is insane at his size.

    He obviously has the height/length/frame to be a number 1, but his uniqueness is in his ability to stretch the field at that size. Does struggle with drops at times and body catches a lot. But, does flash good hands and ability to pluck on film as well. I don't think our FO is scared off by drop issues (IE: Kearse). Goes without saying that with his size it also provides a big body on 3rd down and in the red zone as well. I just see a player that has the potential to be truly great if he can be more consistent catching the ball. Possesses a lot of cool, unique traits that are hard to find in a player at WR.

    I do like Bitonio too BTW. Have him right there with Lewan on my tackle board (not as high on Lewan as many are). He is a good player that could provide great versatility being able to play 4 positions on the line. Just think Benjamin has potential to be special while Bitonio won't be special but will be a good player.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:42 am
  • At #32? Kelvin Benjamin in a heartbeat.

    We all know he won't last that long, but I truly believe Schneider could trade with Idzik to get it done.
    By packaging our #64 with #32, to get up to the New York Jets pick at #18, would be a reasonably steep price. Still...

    It would be worth it.

    'cuz he's a #1.
    IMO
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  • kigenzun wrote:At #32? Kelvin Benjamin in a heartbeat.

    We all know he won't last that long, but I truly believe Schneider could trade with Idzik to get it done.
    By packaging our #64 with #32, to get up to the New York Jets pick at #18, would be a reasonably steep price. Still...

    It would be worth it.

    'cuz he's a #1.
    IMO


    For that price, I'd add extra and come away with Donald or Evans
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:48 am
  • With such a deep WR class we could see some of these guys slide. I don't think we can afford to give up or 2nd this year because we don't have a 3rd. I'd rather see how far we can trade up with our 4th then trade our 2nd for a 3rd and 4th.
    Last edited by Wenhawk on Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:22 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    jake206 wrote:Bitonio is overrated.


    You mean by all the national pundits who never talk about him?


    Maybe there is a reason for that . . . Bitonio doesn't have good size for his current OT position, and he doesn't move well in pass protection. In watching him play against UCLA, the Nevada coaches often had him blocking down on the DT, rather than taking on the outside rusher. I think Bitionio could develop into one of the better guards (or even centers) in this class, but no way is he worthy of a First Round selection. 2013 rookies Bailey/Bowie have just as much potential as Bitonio, who very well could be available at 64.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:29 pm
  • Not what I saw vs UCLA. He dealt with Barr superbly off the edge. Ditto against FSU's bevy of pass rushers.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:42 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Not what I saw vs UCLA. He dealt with Barr superbly off the edge. Ditto against FSU's bevy of pass rushers.


    Bitonio did a lot of blocking down in both of those games. Nevada was so overmatched by FSU that they hardly attempted to throw the ball. When forced to move laterally against an outside rusher, Bitonio tends to not do as well because he lacks efficient footwork and hand placement in pass protection.

    Here was a play from Bitionio against Fresno State that demonstrates some of my concern with his poor lateral footwork/punch:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9921122

    A few plays later, we see the same thing happen again. Bitonio does not slide well against the outside rusher, forcing his QB to rush the pass attempt on fourth down: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9921187

    Do you really see Bitonio as a natural OT?
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  • hawknation2014 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Not what I saw vs UCLA. He dealt with Barr superbly off the edge. Ditto against FSU's bevy of pass rushers.


    Bitonio did a lot of blocking down in both of those games. Nevada was so overmatched by FSU that they hardly attempted to throw the ball. When forced to move laterally against an outside rusher, Bitonio tends to not do as well because he lacks efficient footwork and hand placement in pass protection.

    Here was a play from Bitionio against Fresno State that demonstrates some of my concern with his poor lateral footwork/punch:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9921122

    A few plays later, we see the same thing happen again. Bitonio does not slide well against the outside rusher, forcing his QB to rush the pass attempt on fourth down: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9921187

    Do you really see Bitonio as a natural OT?


    Maybe I was watching different film than you, but in your first highlight link, Bitonio slides with the DE pushing him past the pocket and the QB. The right side of the line collapses and when the QB steps up into the pocket he gets flushed out to Bitonio's side where someone tackles the QB as he is leaving the pocket. Bitonio did not get beat on that play. If the right side of the pocket had held, Bitonio's DE would have been pushed back up into the DT pile. QB had plenty of time to throw the ball on this play, as well.

    In the second clip. Bitonio is mirroring the DE as he rushes, then stops and then moves to go back around the outside. Bitonio loses the DE after the LG and DT from his side fall on his right leg taking him to the ground.

    From what I saw in those two plays, Bitonio was sliding and mirroring the DE's just fine.
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Re: Kelvin Benjamin or Joel Bitonio at 32
Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:39 am
  • Frozenropers wrote:
    hawknation2014 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Not what I saw vs UCLA. He dealt with Barr superbly off the edge. Ditto against FSU's bevy of pass rushers.


    Bitonio did a lot of blocking down in both of those games. Nevada was so overmatched by FSU that they hardly attempted to throw the ball. When forced to move laterally against an outside rusher, Bitonio tends to not do as well because he lacks efficient footwork and hand placement in pass protection.

    Here was a play from Bitionio against Fresno State that demonstrates some of my concern with his poor lateral footwork/punch:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9921122

    A few plays later, we see the same thing happen again. Bitonio does not slide well against the outside rusher, forcing his QB to rush the pass attempt on fourth down: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9921187

    Do you really see Bitonio as a natural OT?


    Maybe I was watching different film than you, but in your first highlight link, Bitonio slides with the DE pushing him past the pocket and the QB. The right side of the line collapses and when the QB steps up into the pocket he gets flushed out to Bitonio's side where someone tackles the QB as he is leaving the pocket. Bitonio did not get beat on that play. If the right side of the pocket had held, Bitonio's DE would have been pushed back up into the DT pile. QB had plenty of time to throw the ball on this play, as well.

    In the second clip. Bitonio is mirroring the DE as he rushes, then stops and then moves to go back around the outside. Bitonio loses the DE after the LG and DT from his side fall on his right leg taking him to the ground.

    From what I saw in those two plays, Bitonio was sliding and mirroring the DE's just fine.


    On the first play, Bitonio failed to adjust to the pass rusher's inside move. This allows his man to reach the QB. The fact that the pass rusher misses the tackle is irrelevant.

    On the second play, the rusher once again disengages from Bitonio because he lacks the length and footwork to stay with speed rushers.

    Against UCLA and FSU, Bitonio was not even asked to block the outside rusher. This was true in other games as well. What are the consequences of having a LT who cannot block speed rushers?

    On this play, Bitionio blocks down, allowing the outside rusher a free lane to the QB for the sack/fumble: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9772028

    On another play against SDSU, Bitionio once again is beat outside, which causes his QB to collapse into him for another sack/fumble: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9772060
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