My new draft-crush: WR Allen Robinson - Penn State

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
  • 4.6 first run....

    No thanks. If he it here in the 4th...then I would take him.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2612
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


  • 4.60 not unexpected.

    He aint a great athlete. He's shifty. And the worry is, will be quite as shifty at the next level without the great speed?
    User avatar
    theENGLISHseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8165
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 am


  • Meh, still wont make him fall as far as the 4th.

    Really wish we had our 3rd this year, there is going to be a lot of talent around in it.

    Seems like a real quick class this year, no?
    User avatar
    SomersetHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1007
    Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:33 am
    Location: United Kingdom


  • A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)

    As I review the video, a few things are EVIDENT to the eye: 1) he runs good routes and separates from the DB. 2) He makes tough catches.
    3) he does NOT go down easy. 4) He's durable.

    By all accounts, Jerry Rice was a combine failure and should never have been drafted as high as he was by the 49ers. But thankfully for them, Bill Walsh saw beyond simple measurables and understood that Rice was an athlete and a football player, and the on-field evidence overshadowed his Combine and pro-day achievements. I'm not saying Robinson is the next Rice. I'm simply saying, don't ignore the body of work from the games the man has played.
    Image
    User avatar
    Jazzhawk
    * NET News Scoop *
    * NET News Scoop *
     
    Posts: 9013
    Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:16 pm


  • Jazzhawk wrote:A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)

    As I review the video, a few things are EVIDENT to the eye: 1) he runs good routes and separates from the DB. 2) He makes tough catches.
    3) he does NOT go down easy. 4) He's durable.

    By all accounts, Jerry Rice was a combine failure and should never have been drafted as high as he was by the 49ers. But thankfully for them, Bill Walsh saw beyond simple measurables and understood that Rice was an athlete and a football player, and the on-field evidence overshadowed his Combine and pro-day achievements. I'm not saying Robinson is the next Rice. I'm simply saying, don't ignore the body of work from the games the man has played.


    This speed is going to preclude him from top 40 consideration.

    He could well be an outstanding WR. But the reality is, this draft is just packed with guys who could well be outstanding WRs in their own right. He's probably dropping to R3 based on this speed. It's shockingly slow. And Robinson did have speed questions heading into the combine. To me, he's a much slower Percy Harvin. He has good balance, tough to bring down. Decent change of direction. But he lacks any kind of burst that Harvin has which allows him to break free and clean from missed tackles for great YAC. Robinson doesn't get away from tackles easily, but he does have the strength to drag them along for an extra 3-5 yards.

    Robinson dropped about 35-40 spots in the draft with this run. And it's going to be unfair to him. Some team is going to get a steal in the third. It will simply be a function of the fact that this run put about 7-8 receivers between where he was expected to go in 30-40 overall range to where he's going to go now. Those receivers all have good tape too. Robinson doesn't distinguish himself from other 2nd round guys to that degree. But the absence of speed really hurts. That's going to mean 10 to 12 WR hungry teams will have already drafted a WR and won't be in the market for one.

    I don't believe the speed is going to hurt his pro prospects. He's going to make an NFL team and should contribute right away. It will hurt his draft position badly. It's like watching a figure skater fall. They could be awesome at all other aspects. But they are out of contention because other quality competitors didn't stumble.
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 733
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm


  • People pay way too much attention to 40 times. The only merit they have in judging a receiver is how quick he can run a go route.

    Robinson was one of the more fluent runners I've seen on tape. Keenan Allen dropped way too far last year after a slow 40 time and I see a lot of similarity between him and AR, not least that someone's going to get themselves a bargain again.

    And Attyla, shockingly slow? Larry Fitz ran 4.63, I'll take shockingly slow as long as the guy is shifty enough to get separation.
    Last edited by SomersetHawk on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    SomersetHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1007
    Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:33 am
    Location: United Kingdom


  • Jazzhawk wrote:A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)
    .


    We must know a different Ruskell. You strike me as a new fan, or someone who isn't familiar with the history of JS and PC firt round picks.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2612
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


  • People put way too much stock in measurement and every year there's an overreaction to 40 times. Keenan Allen fell in last year's draft because of it, yet was the best rookie receiver. DeAndre Hopkins was presumed to fall because of a 4.57, but was still drafted #27.

    Imo, you're missing on the tape if you think Allen Robinson plays slow or is not a great athlete. He does not have elite top speed, but he can accelerate faster than a lot of these guys showing better 40 times.

    "So @ScottEnyeart knows Coach Carlisle, the Seahawks (and USC prior) Strength coach...here is what Seahawks look at...Seahawks look at 10 yard split and 3cone over 40 yard time...They also look at 20 yard split..Carlisle knows that 40 times can be trained for (some guys play as fast as they run & some guys dont & they know that)" @DavisHsuSeattle

    Compare him to some of the other receivers in the class (numbers from @JoshNorris):

    I'm only showing three receivers, but AR's 10 yard split compared favorably to many of the others and when compared to guys below, he basically outperformed them outside of Brandon Coleman running a little bit faster.

    Allen Robinson
    Broad Jump: 127" - top 3 w/ WRs
    Vertical Jump: 39" - top 6 w/ WRs
    Unofficial 10 yard split: 1.60 & 1.54
    Official 40: 4.6

    Brandon Coleman
    Broad Jump: U/A
    Vertical Jump: 32"
    Unofficial 10 yard split: 1.63 & 1.63
    Official 40: 4.56

    Kelvin Benjamin
    Broad Jump: 119"
    Vertical Jump: 32.5"
    Unofficial 10 yard split: 1.66 & 1.62
    Official 40: 4.61

    Cody Hoffman
    Broad Jump: 108"
    Vertical Jump: 27"
    unofficial 10 yard split: 1.62 & 1.56
    Official 40: 4.65

    If people want an even better athlete, I get that, but to say a guy like Brandon Coleman is athletic enough to fit this offense, but Allen is not is a joke. Especially when considering Allen's tape and production is far better.
    I am Godzilla, you are Japan!
    User avatar
    Recon_Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2180
    Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:01 pm
    Location: Vancouver, Wa


  • Robinson played at 210 lbs during this season and I wonder if bulking up to 220 lbs may have taken some of his long speed. While I never thought he was a speedster, looking at his football speed I thought he would run somewhere between a 4.5 - 4.55 40-yard dash.

    Robinson was in the top-6 for his position in the vertical jump and broad jump, which are the other two test that are key to measuring a prospects explosiveness. So its not as though he is a average athlete. If he stay at 220 lbs then maybe he becomes the next Anquan Boldin.

    If Robinson was to fall to us in the 2nd round, then he would IMO be a steal at that point of the draft.
    cover-2
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 542
    Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:47 am


  • Jazzhawk wrote:A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)

    As I review the video, a few things are EVIDENT to the eye: 1) he runs good routes and separates from the DB. 2) He makes tough catches.
    3) he does NOT go down easy. 4) He's durable.

    By all accounts, Jerry Rice was a combine failure and should never have been drafted as high as he was by the 49ers. But thankfully for them, Bill Walsh saw beyond simple measurables and understood that Rice was an athlete and a football player, and the on-field evidence overshadowed his Combine and pro-day achievements. I'm not saying Robinson is the next Rice. I'm simply saying, don't ignore the body of work from the games the man has played.



    I love it when the Rice example gets used. Like there's loads of Jerry Rice's out there, who sucked at the combine, with middling physical qualities and became legendary all-time receivers. Really it's no different than using Tom Brady as an example for never drafting a quarterback in round one. They are both exceptions.

    And I don't think people are ignoring what he's achieved. I can only speak for myself, but I've watched seven Penn State games concentrating specifically on Allen. And I've talked very positively about what he does well, how he's effective, that he's a terrific YAC guy and a very shifty runner in the open field. He's got a tremendous character and he'll work his ass off at the next level.

    But that doesn't mean he's a first round Seattle Seahawks pick, or a first rounder period.

    And the Ruskell reference is just bizarre. Ruskell concentrated on high character senior players with big production at big schools. I'm not sure how an opinion of not believing Robinson is a Seahawks pick is Ruskell-esque, given the only non-Ruskell aspect of Robinson is he aint a senior. Really don't get that at all.
    User avatar
    theENGLISHseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8165
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 am


  • ImTheScientist wrote:4.6 first run....

    No thanks. If he it here in the 4th...then I would take him.


    lol at the 4th round. Get out of here.

    Not sure if he cracks R1 anymore, but he's not slipping out of R2.

    And just watch the highlights.. the guy isn't a burner like a Watkins or Bryant, but hes very fast with the football in his hands. Very Kennan Allen esque. There is room for guys like that on this football team.
    February 2, 2014... the day the dream was finally realized
    User avatar
    Hasselbeck
    * NET Sage *
     
    Posts: 5423
    Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 pm


  • The guy is big and put up slot numbers in agility drills. I want. What a mismatch for nickel teams when we go 4 or even 5W.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 11633
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


  • Reminds me of a slower Miles Austin, or maybe a MUCH slower Cordarrelle Patterson. Keenan Allen works very well as a comp too. Big dude with moves and YAC ability. I seriously doubt he is fast enough for JS given the bulk of his history drafting 4.4 and 4.5 WRs. He does have a lot of unique qualities and Seattle loves YAC, so maybe JS can make an exception here.

    IMO, he's going to be a good NFL player. I don't know if he fits Seattle. The aforementioned JS speed requirement is an issue, plus Seattle throws the fewest passes over the middle of any team in the NFL, and Robinson is going to be at his best working the middle of the field or in other situations that provide him space. He's not going to be the type Seattle is looking for- the red line threat who scares defensive coordinators.

    He could very well be the next Keenan Allen. But I think what Seattle really wants is the next Vincent Jackson prospect (Mike Evans), the next Brandon Marshall prospect (Martavis Bryant), the next Sidney Rice prospect (Jordan Matthews comes close). This is one of the best years ever to get a tall WR with size and speed, so I expect them to target that specific area of the WR group.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 11401
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


  • Just to compare previous WR's drafted by the Hawks vs this years class...

    Kris Durham (4th round pick)

    Combine invite: No
    Pro Day:
    Height: 6052
    Weight: 216
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.66 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
    Vertical Jump: 36
    Broad Jump: 10'01"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
    3-Cone Drill: 6.89

    Chris Harper (4th round Pick)

    Combine Invite: Yes
    Height: 6006
    Weight: 229
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.57
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.61 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
    Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
    Broad Jump: 09'08"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.39
    3-Cone Drill: 6.89
    HawkStar22
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 59
    Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:07 pm


  • HawkStar22 wrote:Just to compare previous WR's drafted by the Hawks vs this years class...

    Kris Durham (4th round pick)

    Combine invite: No
    Pro Day:
    Height: 6052
    Weight: 216
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.66 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
    Vertical Jump: 36
    Broad Jump: 10'01"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
    3-Cone Drill: 6.89

    Chris Harper (4th round Pick)

    Combine Invite: Yes
    Height: 6006
    Weight: 229
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.57
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.61 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
    Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
    Broad Jump: 09'08"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.39
    3-Cone Drill: 6.89


    You think maybe we'd learn that our measurement system doesn't work for WRs?
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 733
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm


  • kearly wrote:Reminds me of a slower Miles Austin, or maybe a MUCH slower Cordarrelle Patterson. Keenan Allen works very well as a comp too. Big dude with moves and YAC ability. I seriously doubt he is fast enough for JS given the bulk of his history drafting 4.4 and 4.5 WRs. He does have a lot of unique qualities and Seattle loves YAC, so maybe JS can make an exception here.

    IMO, he's going to be a good NFL player. I don't know if he fits Seattle. The aforementioned JS speed requirement is an issue, plus Seattle throws the fewest passes over the middle of any team in the NFL, and Robinson is going to be at his best working the middle of the field or in other situations that provide him space. He's not going to be the type Seattle is looking for- the red line threat who scares defensive coordinators.

    He could very well be the next Keenan Allen. But I think what Seattle really wants is the next Vincent Jackson prospect (Mike Evans), the next Brandon Marshall prospect (Martavis Bryant), the next Sidney Rice prospect (Jordan Matthews comes close). This is one of the best years ever to get a tall WR with size and speed, so I expect them to target that specific area of the WR group.

    I think Keenan Allen is a great comp.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 11633
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


  • Speaking of Rice, his cousin, Jordan Matthews is pretty good but not first round talent.
    twelthmanfan
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 192
    Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:18 am
    Location: Yorba Linda, CA


  • twelthmanfan wrote:Speaking of Rice, his cousin, Jordan Matthews is pretty good but not first round talent.


    Wrong Rice. He's the cousin of Jerry Rice.
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 733
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm


  • I can't believe I didn't see this thread before. Dude is a baller. Will be successful.
    "So between my friends and I we have been at every home game to date this year, and we have all been plotting the offensive plays called. " ------Anthony!
    User avatar
    Tical21
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1546
    Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:37 pm


  • Glad the Allen Robinson fan-club is growing.
    February 2, 2014... the day the dream was finally realized
    User avatar
    Hasselbeck
    * NET Sage *
     
    Posts: 5423
    Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 pm


  • At first I sort of passed Robinson off as a 2nd tier type guy...however, after watching move tape I really think he could be a great player. He reminds me SOOOOOO much of Keenan Allen, and we all know how that worked out for SD this year.

    +
    Route running
    Size
    Hands
    Catches away from body

    Average speed at 4.60, but Allen also ran a 4.7 last year. He'll be there at 32 in my opinion. He's going to be a #1 WR in this league.
    Image

    "We all we got, we all we need"
    User avatar
    lukerguy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1495
    Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:00 pm


  • I swear I didn't read the rest of the thread before I made my last post RE: Allen.
    Image

    "We all we got, we all we need"
    User avatar
    lukerguy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1495
    Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:00 pm


  • SomersetHawk wrote:People pay way too much attention to 40 times. The only merit they have in judging a receiver is how quick he can run a go route.

    Robinson was one of the more fluent runners I've seen on tape. Keenan Allen dropped way too far last year after a slow 40 time and I see a lot of similarity between him and AR, not least that someone's going to get themselves a bargain again.

    And Attyla, shockingly slow? Larry Fitz ran 4.63, I'll take shockingly slow as long as the guy is shifty enough to get separation.
    lukerguy wrote:At first I sort of passed Robinson off as a 2nd tier type guy...however, after watching move tape I really think he could be a great player. He reminds me SOOOOOO much of Keenan Allen, and we all know how that worked out for SD this year.

    +
    Route running
    Size
    Hands
    Catches away from body

    Average speed at 4.60, but Allen also ran a 4.7 last year. He'll be there at 32 in my opinion. He's going to be a #1 WR in this league.


    I made the Allen comparison a while ago, nice to see you, Kearly and Scotte in agreement.

    Keenan Allen shouldn't have ran last year, his knee clearly hadn't recovered and it ended up dropping him two rounds. I don't think Robinson falls to the 3rd like Allen and doubt he makes our 2nd. But even in the back end of round 2 he's more than worth it.

    With a decent possibility that every team in our division will take a catcher in the first two days, if we can't get him then I hope he lands outside the NFC West. Of course, I'd rather him in our division than Watkins, Evans and maybe Beckham Jr and Lee. Though I'm not as high on Adams, Moncrief, Matthews, Benjamin and Cooks as I am on Robinson.
    User avatar
    SomersetHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1007
    Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:33 am
    Location: United Kingdom


  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    ImTheScientist wrote:4.6 first run....

    No thanks. If he it here in the 4th...then I would take him.


    lol at the 4th round. Get out of here.

    Not sure if he cracks R1 anymore, but he's not slipping out of R2.

    And just watch the highlights.. the guy isn't a burner like a Watkins or Bryant, but hes very fast with the football in his hands. Very Kennan Allen esque. There is room for guys like that on this football team.

    Analysists are saying he's an Anquan Boldin.
    SEAHAWKS HEADED FOR BLOODBATH
    http://cover32.com/seahawks/2014/11/19/ ... bloodbath/
    Follow me on Twitter:
    @George_OGorman
    User avatar
    Lords of Scythia
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1423
    Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:32 am



Previous


It is currently Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:14 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE NCAA FOOTBALL & PRO DRAFT FORUM ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: Hawk Finn and 5 guests