Marcus Mariota not a Heisman finalist

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Marcus Mariota not a Heisman finalist
Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:18 am
  • Really??!! I'm a Cougs and Huskies guy being a Washington native and all, and I get the kid was hurt and his numbers went down a bit and the team tailked off, but damn he's not one of the SIX guys invited to New York for the presentation ceremony? Total BS in my eyes.

    The finalists:
    Florida St. quarterback Jamis Winston
    Northern Illinois quarterback Jordan Lynch
    Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel
    Boston College running back Andre Williams
    Alabama quarterback A.J. McCarron and
    Auburn running back Tre Mason

    I think it's a slam dunk for Winston to win it but Marcus deserves to be in the Big Apple for the ceremony. Anti-west coast bias?
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  • Anti-gimmicky speed based bias that can be run by a lot of different QB's and be very effective. I do think Winston wins it, but even as an FSU fan I don't think he deserves it. He is a great QB, but we have three receivers who will be drafted into the NFL and a O-Line that keeps Winston clean a lot. I think Williams deserves it more than anyone considering the talent around him.
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  • Its Winstons award. Theres not a guy there that I would call undeserving. I don't see the issue.

    Now Sankey not being invited is an outrage.
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  • *shrug* Mariota wasn't going to win it after the last month. I don't really care if my guy isn't invited if he isn't going to win it anyways.

    That said, wtf is AJ McCarron doing there? I'd rather see Mariota, Sankey, Petty or Carey. Braxton Miller has a better case than McCarron.
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  • The NCAA don't appreciate you, Marcus. Do the right thing. Declare.

    Sankey? You still obviously have something to prove, young man. Don't declare.
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  • I'm an SEC guy, and even I don't think McCarron or Mason belong in the hunt.
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  • McCarron is only there due to his record as a starting QB. Getting to go to the ceremony is more of a lifetime achievement thing for him, because he certainly isn't one of the top 6 players in football. After that debacle against Arizona there was no way that Mariota was going to get invited to NYC.
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  • There was definitely a hitch in Mariota's giddy-up vs. 'Zona. He's a kid with limited reps at the position. Take away his legs and of course, he's much less threatening. But it's not like he was exposed. The injury was exposed, not Mariota. The leg will heal and he will excel again.

    Anyone counting this kid out, or attributing the whole of his success to Oregon's system, have not watched enough Marcus Mariota and/or are in for a treat...or rude awakening, dependent on what you expect from him.

    Might as well give him the 2014 Heisman now and barring injury, He'll be the first player off the board next year. I'd bet on it.
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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Really??!! I'm a Cougs and Huskies guy being a Washington native and all, and I get the kid was hurt and his numbers went down a bit and the team tailked off, but damn he's not one of the SIX guys invited to New York for the presentation ceremony? Total BS in my eyes.

    The finalists:
    Florida St. quarterback Jamis Winston
    Northern Illinois quarterback Jordan Lynch
    Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel
    Boston College running back Andre Williams
    Alabama quarterback A.J. McCarron and
    Auburn running back Tre Mason

    I think it's a slam dunk for Winston to win it but Marcus deserves to be in the Big Apple for the ceremony. Anti-west coast bias?


    I'm not taking Mariota over any of those 6 guys. In fact I think Derek Carr was more deserving than Mariota.

    Agree on Sankey though.. Put Sankey over Mason.
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  • how could u include mason without Karey. It is complete SEC bias
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  • They invited the top six vote-getters. Your complaints should be directed towards the voters.
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Re: Marcus Mariota not a Heisman finalist
Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:45 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Really??!! I'm a Cougs and Huskies guy being a Washington native and all, and I get the kid was hurt and his numbers went down a bit and the team tailked off, but damn he's not one of the SIX guys invited to New York for the presentation ceremony? Total BS in my eyes.

    The finalists:
    Florida St. quarterback Jamis Winston
    Northern Illinois quarterback Jordan Lynch
    Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel
    Boston College running back Andre Williams
    Alabama quarterback A.J. McCarron and
    Auburn running back Tre Mason

    I think it's a slam dunk for Winston to win it but Marcus deserves to be in the Big Apple for the ceremony. Anti-west coast bias?


    I'm not taking Mariota over any of those 6 guys. In fact I think Derek Carr was more deserving than Mariota.

    Agree on Sankey though.. Put Sankey over Mason.

    I'd have no problem with either of those scenarios. Anti-west coast bias as usual...............or if you prefer, east coast more heavily populated and no one watches any teams out here stupidity.
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Re: Marcus Mariota not a Heisman finalist
Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:22 am
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Really??!! I'm a Cougs and Huskies guy being a Washington native and all, and I get the kid was hurt and his numbers went down a bit and the team tailked off, but damn he's not one of the SIX guys invited to New York for the presentation ceremony? Total BS in my eyes.

    The finalists:
    Florida St. quarterback Jamis Winston
    Northern Illinois quarterback Jordan Lynch
    Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel
    Boston College running back Andre Williams
    Alabama quarterback A.J. McCarron and
    Auburn running back Tre Mason

    I think it's a slam dunk for Winston to win it but Marcus deserves to be in the Big Apple for the ceremony. Anti-west coast bias?


    I'm not taking Mariota over any of those 6 guys. In fact I think Derek Carr was more deserving than Mariota.

    Agree on Sankey though.. Put Sankey over Mason.

    I'd have no problem with either of those scenarios. Anti-west coast bias as usual...............or if you prefer, east coast more heavily populated and no one watches any teams out here stupidity.


    I think it's a damn shame that guys like Carr and Sankey were overlooked. Especially Carr. He had one of the best college seasons ever and was a win away from the BCS.

    I mean I understand what McCarron did over a career and what Mason has done the last couple of weeks.. but the Heisman should be about the entire 2013 season.. not a farewell college tour (McCarron) or a flavor of the month from a BCS Finalist (Mason).

    Then again, the Heisman has and always will be a sham. So par for the course I suppose.
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Re: Marcus Mariota not a Heisman finalist
Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:33 am
  • So I have some thoughts and questions about Winston winning the Heisman under a cloud of accusations. Please don't get all worked up and think I am coming down on one side or the other.

    Highly doubtful that any of us knows the facts of the case, so I think it's useful to attempt to look at both sides.

    One thing they have said publicly is that the girl went to the hospital and said she was sexually assaulted. When the DNA came back, it was a positive match with Winston who claimed that the sex was consensual.

    It seems to me that this matter was not, and still hasn't been investigated properly. The question has to be asked: "Why wasn't this case prosecuted when it happened? The Police say the victim declined to prosecute, which seems odd considering she went to the hospital, reported the assault, had the rape kit done, and went to the police.

    The family claims the police department discouraged them from following through.

    "In two statements issued in the past week, the family maintained Patricia Carroll was told by a detective that Tallahassee is a "big football town and the victim needs to think long and hard before proceeding against him because she will be raked over the coals and her life will be made miserable.""

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/11/24/police-handling-of-fsu-players-case-under-fire/3691827/


    As you will see in the quotes below, the Tallahassee Police Department has a terrible record, and 2 of the more notable victims as indicated by the Grand Jury (there were 5 Grand Jury investigations) were women.


    Watching some of the shows about Heisman picks, these guys are all in love with Winston and what a great player he is and it worries me that they aren't addressing the sexual assault accusations. Every other news outlet is talking about it. Maybe they just don't want to dampen the enthusiasm over the voting. It worries me though what kind of message this might send.

    How will the Heisman program look if they vote Winston in, and the Governor of Florida does as the girl's lawyer requests and investigates the Tallahassee Sherriff's department, only to find out there is evidence of wrong doing? There is a possibility that it wasn't "consensual" as Winston claims, and if he wins the Heisman, it will lose all credibility.

    I understand the vote goes to the best college player but look at what happened to Reggie Bush, over what? Minor BS imho. He never should have had to give that trophy back because he was the best football player in college. It's the boosters who should be penalized, not the 18 year old kid who loved his mom and dad and wanted them at the games.


    I don't envy the voters, they are in a tough position.


    But more important than any football game or award is the sticky situation that has come about. We don't know if this girl got raped or not but nobody should be willing to overlook the situation just because the state attorney, who was given the case a year late and called it a "cluster" did not think he had a winnable case.

    It's hard to know what that means, it could mean that there is no evidence and it shouldn't have taken this long to officially say there was not enough for a case. Or it could mean that there is evidence, but because the Police didn't investigate it properly, that they have ruined any chance of prosecuting the case.

    Somebody is getting the shaft here, and it may be Jameis Winston, or it may be the girl, either way it seems football should take a back seat to the whole situation until the dust has settled, and right now, any resolution for the victim, whoever that may be, is a long ways off. If nothing else, I think that police department needs a good house cleaning.


    I'd be interested to hear thoughts on how the Heisman Committee might handle this situation or prepare themselves should they end up in this position again.

    Here's a great read on the current situation:

    "When State Attorney Willie Meggs told reporters last week that there was not enough evidence to charge the Florida State quarterback with a crime, it did not suggest his innocence. It meant only what Meggs said, that the accuser’s story — combined with an incredible delay by the Tallahassee Police Department in getting the case to the state — did not make for a good case to take to court."

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/columnists/tim-cowlishaw/20131212-cowlishaw-only-two-know-if-jameis-winston-decision-is-justice-but-it-s-important-progress.ece



    More quotes:

    "Could (State Attorney) Meggs charge FSU quarterback Jameis Winston, star of the second-ranked Seminoles, with sexual battery for an incident that took place in a local apartment back in

    December 2012 but came across his desk only last week?"

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--opinions-on-jameis-winston-case-vary-as-florida-state-community-awaits-decision-041643901.html


    "On the same day the department handed over the Winston case to prosecutors, a Leon County grand jury issued a stinging report criticizing the department for how it handled a drunken

    driving arrest. The arrest — which left the female driver with a broken bone in her face — created such an uproar this fall that it prompted Chief Dennis Jones to abruptly retire."

    "The video from the August arrest of Christina West showed officers slamming her into a police car before throwing her to the ground. West can be heard screaming in the video. West's

    attorney said the police "treated her like an animal
    " and has already placed the city on notice that West plans to sue them.

    The grand jury blamed the department — which has placed the two officers involved in the arrest on administrative leave — for allowing the situation to escalate.

    "We find the sarcastic comments and lack of professionalism by the arresting officers, after Ms. West was injured, was disconcerting," the grand jury said in its presentment. "We

    further find that the sergeants failed to intervene in the arrest and also de-escalate the situation by not following their own policies and procedures. They also failed to demonstrate the

    respect for citizens that this community demands from its law enforcement officers.""

    "The report issued Nov. 12 on the West case was the third grand jury report released in the last five years to slam the department.

    The most damning report came in the wake of the May 2008 death of Rachel Hoffman. Hoffman, a Florida State University graduate who was recruited by police as an informant after being

    caught with drugs, was shot five times after police lost track of her during a drug deal.


    Hoffman, of Safety Harbor, was sent alone by police with $13,000 in marked bills to buy Ecstasy, cocaine and a gun, according to records. Instead, the men killed her and stole her car, a

    credit card and the marked money."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/11/24/police-handling-of-fsu-players-case-under-fire/3691827/



    "Carroll described the problems with the investigation as "so significant and so multiple."

    The lead detective got a search warrant for her client's cellphone and social media accounts but failed to do the same for Winston and his two companions immediately after the

    accusations were made
    , Carroll said."

    http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_11886.shtml
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  • ivotuk wrote:So I have some thoughts and questions about Winston winning the Heisman under a cloud of accusations. Please don't get all worked up and think I am coming down on one side or the other.

    Highly doubtful that any of us knows the facts of the case, so I think it's useful to attempt to look at both sides.

    One thing they have said publicly is that the girl went to the hospital and said she was sexually assaulted. When the DNA came back, it was a positive match with Winston who claimed that the sex was consensual.

    It seems to me that this matter was not, and still hasn't been investigated properly. The question has to be asked: "Why wasn't this case prosecuted when it happened? The Police say the victim declined to prosecute, which seems odd considering she went to the hospital, reported the assault, had the rape kit done, and went to the police.

    The family claims the police department discouraged them from following through.

    "In two statements issued in the past week, the family maintained Patricia Carroll was told by a detective that Tallahassee is a "big football town and the victim needs to think long and hard before proceeding against him because she will be raked over the coals and her life will be made miserable.""

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/11/24/police-handling-of-fsu-players-case-under-fire/3691827/


    As you will see in the quotes below, the Tallahassee Police Department has a terrible record, and 2 of the more notable victims as indicated by the Grand Jury (there were 5 Grand Jury investigations) were women.


    Watching some of the shows about Heisman picks, these guys are all in love with Winston and what a great player he is and it worries me that they aren't addressing the sexual assault accusations. Every other news outlet is talking about it. Maybe they just don't want to dampen the enthusiasm over the voting. It worries me though what kind of message this might send.

    How will the Heisman program look if they vote Winston in, and the Governor of Florida does as the girl's lawyer requests and investigates the Tallahassee Sherriff's department, only to find out there is evidence of wrong doing? There is a possibility that it wasn't "consensual" as Winston claims, and if he wins the Heisman, it will lose all credibility.

    I understand the vote goes to the best college player but look at what happened to Reggie Bush, over what? Minor BS imho. He never should have had to give that trophy back because he was the best football player in college. It's the boosters who should be penalized, not the 18 year old kid who loved his mom and dad and wanted them at the games.


    I don't envy the voters, they are in a tough position.


    But more important than any football game or award is the sticky situation that has come about. We don't know if this girl got raped or not but nobody should be willing to overlook the situation just because the state attorney, who was given the case a year late and called it a "cluster" did not think he had a winnable case.

    It's hard to know what that means, it could mean that there is no evidence and it shouldn't have taken this long to officially say there was not enough for a case. Or it could mean that there is evidence, but because the Police didn't investigate it properly, that they have ruined any chance of prosecuting the case.

    Somebody is getting the shaft here, and it may be Jameis Winston, or it may be the girl, either way it seems football should take a back seat to the whole situation until the dust has settled, and right now, any resolution for the victim, whoever that may be, is a long ways off. If nothing else, I think that police department needs a good house cleaning.


    I'd be interested to hear thoughts on how the Heisman Committee might handle this situation or prepare themselves should they end up in this position again.

    Here's a great read on the current situation:

    "When State Attorney Willie Meggs told reporters last week that there was not enough evidence to charge the Florida State quarterback with a crime, it did not suggest his innocence. It meant only what Meggs said, that the accuser’s story — combined with an incredible delay by the Tallahassee Police Department in getting the case to the state — did not make for a good case to take to court."

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/columnists/tim-cowlishaw/20131212-cowlishaw-only-two-know-if-jameis-winston-decision-is-justice-but-it-s-important-progress.ece



    More quotes:

    "Could (State Attorney) Meggs charge FSU quarterback Jameis Winston, star of the second-ranked Seminoles, with sexual battery for an incident that took place in a local apartment back in

    December 2012 but came across his desk only last week?"

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--opinions-on-jameis-winston-case-vary-as-florida-state-community-awaits-decision-041643901.html


    "On the same day the department handed over the Winston case to prosecutors, a Leon County grand jury issued a stinging report criticizing the department for how it handled a drunken

    driving arrest. The arrest — which left the female driver with a broken bone in her face — created such an uproar this fall that it prompted Chief Dennis Jones to abruptly retire."

    "The video from the August arrest of Christina West showed officers slamming her into a police car before throwing her to the ground. West can be heard screaming in the video. West's

    attorney said the police "treated her like an animal
    " and has already placed the city on notice that West plans to sue them.

    The grand jury blamed the department — which has placed the two officers involved in the arrest on administrative leave — for allowing the situation to escalate.

    "We find the sarcastic comments and lack of professionalism by the arresting officers, after Ms. West was injured, was disconcerting," the grand jury said in its presentment. "We

    further find that the sergeants failed to intervene in the arrest and also de-escalate the situation by not following their own policies and procedures. They also failed to demonstrate the

    respect for citizens that this community demands from its law enforcement officers.""

    "The report issued Nov. 12 on the West case was the third grand jury report released in the last five years to slam the department.

    The most damning report came in the wake of the May 2008 death of Rachel Hoffman. Hoffman, a Florida State University graduate who was recruited by police as an informant after being

    caught with drugs, was shot five times after police lost track of her during a drug deal.


    Hoffman, of Safety Harbor, was sent alone by police with $13,000 in marked bills to buy Ecstasy, cocaine and a gun, according to records. Instead, the men killed her and stole her car, a

    credit card and the marked money."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/11/24/police-handling-of-fsu-players-case-under-fire/3691827/



    "Carroll described the problems with the investigation as "so significant and so multiple."

    The lead detective got a search warrant for her client's cellphone and social media accounts but failed to do the same for Winston and his two companions immediately after the

    accusations were made
    , Carroll said."

    http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_11886.shtml



    When they said they weren't prosecuting him, all the other stuff becomes (for lack of a better term) irrelevant. I think asking people voting for a college football award to consider something that law enforcement say didn't is unfair and well, silly.
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