Johnny Manziel = Tebow 2.0, with issues

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
  • pehawk wrote:I've heard the same stories, through the same channels, girls who dated Pac-12 QB's.

    And Shark, no offense, but I find it pretty alarming you're hanging out with SEC types. Even if by default and via 3rd person.

    You're a MWC/WAC guy, and specifically a Utah man (although it is VERY SEC to marry the only sister in Utah). You guys play and watch football for honor, not money or loose women. I want to hear what John Beck's like, not Eric Zier, Shark.

    Kay?

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    You're close Jimmer's Shorter Evil Twin... I LIVE in Utah, but I'm all Federal Way... School District No. 210 buddy. You can take a kid out of that dump, but you can't take that dump out of a kid. I would still be shooting bundled bottle rockets we bought on the rez into the lakefront houses and sinking people's boats and watching my friends get hammered for fun if my parents hadn't made an endrun out of there for all the right reasons when they did.

    Beck is an interesting guy, and I could seriously write a book on him. The big story about him was he cried a lot. That was true. The knock on him from scouts was that he had a "weak arm", which was absolute bunk. Beck had a freaking cannon. He could throw the ball 70 yards easily. Watch the last play he makes against Utah and the throw he nails off of his back foot and across his body to Jonny Harline in the endzone. Maybe 5 QB's in the college ranks could have made that throw, and he was one. But, he got rattled easy. He was always a little too worried about what people thought. He was a quiet leader. He wasn't Steve Young or Ty Detmer or Jim MacMahon, who all panned out in the NFL (Detmer to a lesser extent, but he played a long time when most people said he never would at all, and he even made a probowl). Those guys would grab facemasks and yell at a guy to get his f-ing head in the game or he wouldn't ever see a ball again. Watching Detmer from the front row against Miami when I was 17 was THE game that taught me everything about football that just somehow slipped past me through lack of good coaching and lack of a fundamental understanding of what I was even doing on the field due to poor coaches and a limited interest in anything besides hitting into people hard. You saw one guy (this little QB who was way smaller than me) grabbing 300 pounders and saying, "block that M------- F------ or I will personally kick your ass!" Vintage stuff. But I put a lot more emphasis on watching QB's after that day.

    The reason I know a lot about Georgia and Florida is because I played softball for a long time, and was only a class "C" rated USSSA player, but that is not too bad. C players are usually former college players and high school lettermen."D" and "E" players are considered 'recreational'. So "C" guys can play up one and play "B" which I did a few times, or play down one and play "D", which I did a lot and it was too easy. "B" is former minor leaguers and college division 1 baseball players. "A" or "Super Majors" (depending on sanctioning body) are restricted 'paid' ringers and former MLB players. Some guys are fully banned from playing slowpitch due to the liability issues. Like Jose Canseco decided to play slowpitch against guys I know when he was narcing on everybody for juicing, and the next day he was on the restricted list, but his brother Ozzie got placed on "A" or "Supermajors".

    Softball is weird and yet as all consuming and absolutely addicting as any drug. I've seen more families and lives ruined over slowpitch softball than I have over drugs, robberies, and infidelity (although that is the massive huge issue due to constant weekend travel and drunken debauchery) combined. Weird world. I'm glad I checked out of it a few years ago after my spine exploded and they couldn't rebuild my ankle for a fourth time. If not for that, I'd probably be living in Florida playing full time in the 40+ right now and getting paid by some company to 'work in IT' and play on their team like I did through college. Ringing is fun. But it is no way to live a life. I'm glad I'm a crippled mess with a wife and two kids and a nice home and a place to just die peacefully. It's good.

    So yeah... I'll watch the WAC/MWC and whatever is left of them and enjoy it and report back. BYU is independent now, but it's really a joke, because they are in the West Coast with Gonzaga and Pepperdine and others for every other sport now (sticking with the religious schools I guess), and then play MWC/WAC teams most of the season, but aren't bogged down with the conference TV deal anymore. So that's a bonus, but it's hard to build a schedule. Utah State will likely surpass them in quality within 5-10 years at this rate. Utah is far and above BYU now that they are in the PAC 8 (yes, I insist on calling them that... traitorous AZ schools jumping on the WAC like they did... bastards).

    My alma mater is Utah Valley University, and we officially joined the WAC this month, which is excellent. We have the facilities...we still have no football program. But I'm working on that. Baseball and basketball will likely surpass BYU consistently within 10 years as well due to our young alumni base that likes to fundraise and let the athletic department do their job instead of the way the Cougar Club runs. It's pathetic. Old whiteys telling the coaches to play their nephews or they'll stop giving money. What a joke. Glad BYU's hoops coach (Dave Rose) tells them to shove it, as does Bronco... but they'll be gone and get replaced with yes men soon enough.

    So yeah... go UVU. Hopefully I'll get the aquatic center built and named after my grandma as I'm working on. It's a hard slog, but it's starting off ok. I've got people talking. That's a start. My grandma is the best swimmer in state history and beat the US Olympic team when they came to town. She beat the gold medalist by about 6 lengths according to the stories, and was named the best athlete from 1900-1950 (all men and women) at one of the 4 Salt Lake City high schools. She was up against a few NFL and NBA and MLB and pro boxers. She was that damn good, and I hope we get the pool built in her name at UVU.

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  • JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.


    I never heard that Leinart showed up late or was (allegedly) hung over and couldn't play/practice. Matt was a partier, but it never affected his work as far as I'm aware.
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  • sc85sis wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.


    I never heard that Leinart showed up late or was (allegedly) hung over and couldn't play/practice. Matt was a partier, but it never affected his work as far as I'm aware.


    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late or was hung over and couldn't play/practice with HIS team, which is all that matters.
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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  • All this crap he is pulling means one thing: Manziel is a throwback to a bygone era. Favre had party issues. Namath had party issues.

    The kid is a g'dam freshman. let him grow up and see if his football continues to develop.
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  • Pretty revealing article to come out about Manziel next week in ESPN the magazine. Guess its pretty bad for him. Like I said....dude has issues, Ryan Leaf issues.
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  • I think I have changed my opinion about Manziel. I read the story espn did about him and his family ... huhmmm ....
    Dude and his family really have issues. Real attitude issues. These people don't live in the same world as most of us.
    I still believe he is an above average talent and can really be a productive player in the NFL. But his head is not in the right place for the demands of the NFL. I wouldn't go as far as comparing him to Ryan Leaf, but ... dude is very high maintenance and will demand a baby sitter to even perform basic things. I might imagine his career more like Jimmy Clausen than to a Ryan Leaf.
    Why people push to give him the Heisman Trophy after one single good game is simply beyond me.

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  • This should be fun.....
    http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... autographs


    MIAMI -- The NCAA is investigating whether Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel was paid for signing hundreds of autographs on photos and sports memorabilia in January, "Outside the Lines" has learned. Two sources tell "Outside the Lines" that the Texas A&M quarterback agreed to sign memorabilia in exchange for a five-figure flat fee during his trip to Miami for the Discover BCS National Championship. Both sources said they witnessed the signing, though neither saw the actual exchange of money.



    Three sources said Manziel signed photographs, footballs, mini football helmets and other items at the request of an autograph broker named Drew Tieman. Two sources, who are aware of the signing arrangement, told "Outside the Lines" that Tieman approached Manziel on Jan. 6, when he landed at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport to attend the game between Alabama and Notre Dame the next day.



    After that meeting, three sources said, Manziel, accompanied by his friend and personal assistant Nathan Fitch, visited Tieman's residence and signed hundreds of items in the main room of the apartment despite the fact that there were many people in the room. Before Manziel left South Florida, after taking in the title game, he signed hundreds of autographs more, one source said.



    The source also told "Outside the Lines" that James Garland, the NCAA's assistant director of enforcement, in June contacted Tieman and at least one person associated with the signings. The source said Garland, who did not return calls from "Outside the Lines" for comment, told the person that he wanted to talk about Manziel signing items that had appeared for sale on eBay. An NCAA spokeswoman cited NCAA policy to "Outside the Lines" and declined to comment.



    If the NCAA investigation finds that Manziel has violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1 -- accepting money for promoting or advertising the commercial sale of a product or service -- he could be ruled ineligible.

    Attempts to reach Manziel were unsuccessful. Tieman did not return multiple calls and text messages. Fitch could not be reached.



    In a statement, Jason Cook, Texas A&M's senior associate athletics director for external affairs, said "it is Texas A&M's longstanding practice not to respond to such questions concerning specific student-athletes."



    Texas A&M declined further comment.



    But A&M has responded to questions about Manziel and autographs before. On March 6, when ESPN.com contacted the school's compliance director, David Batson, to address a slew of Manziel-signed items that had flooded the memorabilia market, Batson provided a statement:



    "Johnny has indicated on numerous occasions and, once again earlier today, that he has never (and to his knowledge, his parents, other relatives and friends have ever) been compensated through cash or other benefits or promises of deferred compensation for providing his autograph," Batson wrote.



    While college athletes are frequently asked to sign autographs in public places, and those autographs often end up for sale on eBay, the amount of Manziel product that flooded the memorabilia market overall following the BCS title game was overwhelming, memorabilia dealers told "Outside the Lines."



    While Manziel's father, Paul, had alleged that many of the items were fake, two of the leading autograph authentication companies, PSA/DNA and JSA, have authenticated many of the items. Officials with both companies have told ESPN in recent months that they stand by their guarantee that they believe the signatures, some with inscriptions like "Gig 'Em" and "Heisman '12" are genuine. Online verification databases show a single lot of 999 signed Manziel photos numbered sequentially. JSA authenticated 248 items and 376 items that came in in two batches that also are numbered sequentially. Industry insiders say this indicates the signings were done in large quantities intended for wholesale.



    Calls and messages to Paul Manziel were not returned.



    Even though Manziel is not allowed to generate income from his signature, the Manziel family has sought to protect Johnny's business affairs by starting a corporation, JMAN2 Enterprises, which in February filed for the trademark to use "Johnny Football" when he was ready to leave the college game.



    The value of Manziel is clear in the memorabilia and appearance market: Independent merchandiser Aggieland Outfitters recently auctioned off six helmets signed by Manziel and Texas A&M's other Heisman Trophy winner, John David Crow, for $81,000. Texas A&M's booster organization, the 12th Man Foundation, sold a table for six, where Manziel and Crow will sit at the team's Kickoff Dinner later this month, for $20,000.



    The school has committed to renovating Kyle Field, which will push seating capacity to 102,500 by the time it is completed in 2015. Texas A&M officials have said that donors, who make annual contributions of $80,000 to $100,000, have purchased all but two of the 144 suites in the stadium.



    In the school's first year in the SEC last season, Manziel led the Aggies to an 11-2 season and a top-five finish for the first time since 1956. He and his teammates are scheduled to report Sunday afternoon for the 2013-14 season. He is scheduled to address the media Monday.



    Manziel's offseason has drawn heavy media scrutiny. In the past few months, he has been spotted in the front row at NBA games, hanging out with rappers at bars, and has written various headline-starting tweets, including one in which he said he couldn't wait to leave College Station -- the home of Texas A&M. He also was sent home early from the Manning Passing Academy last month.



    Paul Manziel recently told ESPN The Magazine that he doesn't like how the school hasn't protected the family from the NCAA and how he believes that school administrators put their motives above his son's well-being.



    "It's starting to get under our skin," he said. "They're so selfish."



    Manziel also acknowledged that he was concerned about his son's drinking and how he is dealing with celebrity.



    "Yeah, it could all come unraveled," Johnny's father told The Magazine. "And when it does, it's gonna be bad. Real bad."

    Justine Gubar is a producer in ESPN's enterprise unit.
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  • The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.

    The fact that he likes to party and have fun (like any college student) has had no negative affect on his performance on the field to this point, so it doesn't matter at all. IMO, he can do whatever he likes (legally) unless it negatively affect his performance.

    I don't see what the problem is, but you guys can hate all you want and he'll continue to shred your teams defense. I'm a UW student and fan, but Johnny football is awesome and I'd love to have him starting for the Dawgs.
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  • Like the guy above me said. He's going to be a Sophomore in college, that would make him what 19 years old? Like we really did do all that crap in college (or in my case way worse).

    Not every college QB is Russell Wilson.

    I think the only thing I disagree with is the possibility that he was trying to profit from autographs. Again it's still alleged. It's wrong because it's against the NCAA rules and he should know better if he did. From a personal stand point, I think profiting from autograph signings may be one of the only things college players should be allowed to profit from. Maybe the NCAA should figure out other ways to get players money without destroying the system...I dunno, they can do advertising for the school (i.e. some car commercial), school/NCAA gets the major profits, but they get paid $30/hour for their time while "working" something that isn't practice/game.
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.

    :13: This is his job interview and he is pissing it away....as expected though. Some guys are not smart enough to realize the opportunity they have.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.



    So when Colin Kaepernick is going out and having fun and partying, it's stopped him from having success? LOL. Or is Kaepernick not a face of a franchise?

    These guys are athletes not CEOs. What they do off the field, has very little bearing on their success. Partying is normal, even for NFL players.

    You act like you can only be a great player if you have a Russell Wilson type attitude. That's not the case.

    If Manziel continues to play great on the field, nobody will care what he does off the field. Nobody. "Off the field" has nothing to do with "on the field".

    If Manziel continues to get better "on the field" and plays well, then he'll "be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise".
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.



    So when Colin Kaepernick is going out and having fun and partying, it's stopped him from having success? LOL. Or is Kaepernick not a face of a franchise?

    These guys are athletes not CEOs. What they do off the field, has very little bearing on their success. Partying is normal, even for NFL players.

    You act like you can only be a great player if you have a Russell Wilson type attitude. That's not the case.

    If Manziel continues to play great on the field, nobody will care what he does off the field. Nobody. "Off the field" has nothing to do with "on the field".

    If Manziel continues to get better "on the field" and plays well, then he'll "be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise".


    Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.
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  • While partying isn't a big deal in general, there's more scrutiny for QBs. They're expected to be leaders on and off the field. With holding the football every play comes greater responsibility. Still, it's not a big deal if your QB likes to party as long as they prioritize football over all else.

    Problem with Manziel, I don't get that vibe from him. I think he wants to live life and have a blast. I commend him for that. But it isn't what I want in my franchise QB - the fewer interests outside of football, the better. Now, that's just from the same articles that everyone else has read.

    What's interesting about Manziel is that even though he doesn't have a first round body or arm, he showed incredible feel the game (in addition to excellent athletic ability) and that makes him worth a 1st round consideration - but does he have that feel for football because of natural ability, or because he is the hardest working guy at A&M and the (untrustworthy when it comes to shaping the narrative) media showing us the wrong side of him? If he isn't obsessed with football, it is hard to see him making it in a league where better athletes with better work ethics fail.
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  • CPHawk wrote:Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.


    So Manziel is the first college student to drink and party under age? Damn. LOL. That's what many college kids (and football players) do, if you didn't know (especially as an Oregon fan). Haha.

    Kaepernick parties and he's a face of the franchise qb. Manziel's partying has had no affect on his play, which is all that matters.

    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late to practice with Texas A&M, which is all that matters. The Manning Camp doesn't matter. It means nothing.

    Continue to baselessly attack Manziel if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a Heisman winner and he's enjoying his life and having success. What he's done has had no affect on his success, which is all that matters.

    He hasn't killed someone or committed a felony. He's a college student acting like a college student. Let the man live his life in peace. BTW, just to let you know: He doesn't care about what you think of him.
    Last edited by Dawgs0 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Snohomie wrote:While partying isn't a big deal in general, there's more scrutiny for QBs. They're expected to be leaders on and off the field. With holding the football every play comes greater responsibility. Still, it's not a big deal if your QB likes to party as long as they prioritize football over all else.

    Problem with Manziel, I don't get that vibe from him. I think he wants to live life and have a blast. I commend him for that. But it isn't what I want in my franchise QB - the fewer interests outside of football, the better. Now, that's just from the same articles that everyone else has read.

    What's interesting about Manziel is that even though he doesn't have a first round body or arm, he showed incredible feel the game (in addition to excellent athletic ability) and that makes him worth a 1st round consideration - but does he have that feel for football because of natural ability, or because he is the hardest working guy at A&M and the (untrustworthy when it comes to shaping the narrative) media showing us the wrong side of him? If he isn't obsessed with football, it is hard to see him making it in a league where better athletes with better work ethics fail.


    I think Manziel is a Colin Kaepernick type of guy, where he wants to have fun outside of football. Even as a Seahawk fan I like watching those types of guys, because they're not boring off the field. Russell Wilson is a great football player, but he seems like a really boring dude off the field. Extremely serious, etc. He has nothing except football to talk about. Even Hass was a funny dude sometimes.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you don't want players to have fun outside of football. Football is a profession, a job. It's not necessarily an athlete's whole life. You can be committed to and prioritize football, which Manziel and Kaepernick are, and have fun outside of the game.

    There's obviously a line you can't cross, where you're committing crimes and putting your team in jeopardy, but Manziel hasn't committed a serious crime or felony. He's just had some fun, like a normal college kid. He's partied off the field, while having success. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that.

    I mean partying didn't stop Manziel from leading his team to a BCS bowl win and winning the Heisman. Partying didn't stop Kaepernick from leading his team to the Super Bowl. You can be good at football and also have a fun life and party. They're not mutually exclusive.

    You don't have to watch film all day to be a great player. You don't have to sit in the facility, reading the playbook the whole day to be good at football. I guess we have different perspectives on what football players need to do to be successful.
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.


    So Manziel is the first college student to drink and party under age? Damn. LOL. That's what many college kids (and football players) do, if you didn't know (especially as an Oregon fan). Haha.

    Kaepernick parties and he's a face of the franchise qb. Manziel's partying has had no affect on his play, which is all that matters.

    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late to practice with Texas A&M, which is all that matters. The Manning Camp doesn't matter. It means nothing.

    Continue to baselessly attack Manziel if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a Heisman winner and he's enjoying his life and having success. What he's done has had no affect on his success, which is all that matters.

    He hasn't killed someone or committed a felony. He's a college student acting like a college student. Let the man live his life in peace. BTW, just to let you know: He doesn't care about what you think of him.


    He can party and have fun, but he's being a jackass about it. It's funny the whole " he's just a student" bit. He's not "just" a student, but keep saying it it might change the fact that he's a lot more then that. He represents the Texas A&M, and is paid with a free education to do so. Do you think an equipment manger who did this crap, would still get to keep his job? No. But he is just a student as well, but one who gets his school paid for, for doing a job, same as little Johnny.

    It's pretty funny how UW fans forget that thanks to a Qb shenanigans, they got placed on probation. But hey players "are just students", that's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs or sell stuff that's signed. I'm pretty sure the NCAA wouldn't care if joe bob in math 235 sold stuff he signed.
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  • CPHawk wrote:
    He can party and have fun, but he's being a jackass about it. It's funny the whole " he's just a student" bit. He's not "just" a student, but keep saying it it might change the fact that he's a lot more then that. He represents the Texas A&M, and is paid with a free education to do so. Do you think an equipment manger who did this crap, would still get to keep his job? No. But he is just a student as well, but one who gets his school paid for, for doing a job, same as little Johnny.

    It's pretty funny how UW fans forget that thanks to a Qb shenanigans, they got placed on probation. But hey players "are just students", that's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs or sell stuff that's signed. I'm pretty sure the NCAA wouldn't care if joe bob in math 235 sold stuff he signed.



    How is he acting like a jackass? What crap? What has he done out of the ordinary? He's JUST a college student having fun. That's what many college kids do. He hasn't committed a felony or a serious crime. Do you actually understand that? Damn. LOL.

    There is nothing he's done that would warrant getting as mad as you appear to be. Haha. There are far worse, illegal things he could do, that would warrant your anger. You should know, with all of the Oregon players getting in far more legal trouble than Manziel has ever been in. Cliff Harris? Jeremiah Masoli? Kiko Alonso? Etc. Too many to name. LOL.

    So what has Johnny Manziel done that's much different from guys like Kaepernick? Having fun and partying isn't a crime. Continue to hate on a dude wanting to live his life and have fun. It doesn't change the fact that you CAN have fun and do well on the field at the same time, like Kaepernick and Manziel have proven. Like I said, they are not mutually exclusive.

    BTW, do you really believe that Manziel is worth just "a scholarship"? He gives much more to A&M than A&M gives to him. The NCAA is a complete fraud and the fact those rules exist doesn't mean it's right. Manziel is the most valuable player in the college game and as you know he's worth much, much more than a scholarship. He's worth thousands and likely millions to A&M and the NCAA. The fraud known as the NCAA is not compensating him or any other athlete fairly. That's not his fault.
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  • Well, supposedly he's been taking money for autographs, and now a broker has come out with a dollar figure of $7500 for signing helmets. Not looking good for this young man, I'm afraid.
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  • Yeah, if it's true he's a moron. Believe his family is pretty well off (seem to recall hearing the term "old oil money").

    I believe college athletes should be able to financially benefit from things like this, but as long as it's against the rules he's just stupid (if it's true).
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  • DTexHawk wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.


    I never heard that Leinart showed up late or was (allegedly) hung over and couldn't play/practice. Matt was a partier, but it never affected his work as far as I'm aware.


    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late or was hung over and couldn't play/practice with HIS team, which is all that matters.



    Yet he hates his own College Station and A&M.
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  • Tebow took his team to win the 2009 BCS Championship game.


    Manziel has done nothing to impress
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  • Jay Bilas brought this up. Check it out.

    Go to www.shopncaasports.com/

    Enter the name of a current popular college athlete.

    Amateurism? ;-)

    The NCAA is a fraud. SMH.
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  • ??
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  • What don't you get? Read the CBS link and hopefully it will answer some of your questions.

    The NCAA is the problem, not Johnny football.
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  • Worst defense ever. The guy openly cheats. He gets caught and now it's a systemic problem, not the problem of the idiot who is openly breaking rules.

    Manziel had and has every single right to have never attended Texas A&M and to instead showcase his skills in semi-pro ball until such time as he was eligible for the draft. Eric Swann did and had a great career. Johnny CHOSE to play in the NCAA yet this is somehow the NCAA's fault? So moronic that this is downright hilarious.

    The kid is "just a kid doing what all kids do" right? Bunk. He's an entitled prick and has shown it by what he's done since winning the Heisman....openly spit in the face of those who have turned him into a celebrity. I don't think he understands that by violating NCAA rules (like them or not) he is flat out telling NFL teams that he is above teams and organizations and it is all about Johnny.

    Sad if you ask me. The kid is one of the most instinctive and naturally talented football players I have ever seen, but it doesn't appear that he is "all in". So be it, but don't paint this as everybody else's problem and say it is due to NCAA inequity. Without the NCAA his autograph isn't worth selling.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:Worst defense ever. The guy openly cheats. He gets caught and now it's a systemic problem, not the problem of the idiot who is openly breaking rules.

    Manziel had and has every single right to have never attended Texas A&M and to instead showcase his skills in semi-pro ball until such time as he was eligible for the draft. Eric Swann did and had a great career. Johnny CHOSE to play in the NCAA yet this is somehow the NCAA's fault? So moronic that this is downright hilarious.

    The kid is "just a kid doing what all kids do" right? Bunk. He's an entitled prick and has shown it by what he's done since winning the Heisman....openly spit in the face of those who have turned him into a celebrity. I don't think he understands that by violating NCAA rules (like them or not) he is flat out telling NFL teams that he is above teams and organizations and it is all about Johnny.

    Sad if you ask me. The kid is one of the most instinctive and naturally talented football players I have ever seen, but it doesn't appear that he is "all in". So be it, but don't paint this as everybody else's problem and say it is due to NCAA inequity. Without the NCAA his autograph isn't worth selling.

    Well said...I don't like the NCAA but you gotta follow the rules, if you want to play in it.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:Worst defense ever. The guy openly cheats. He gets caught and now it's a systemic problem, not the problem of the idiot who is openly breaking rules.

    Manziel had and has every single right to have never attended Texas A&M and to instead showcase his skills in semi-pro ball until such time as he was eligible for the draft. Eric Swann did and had a great career. Johnny CHOSE to play in the NCAA yet this is somehow the NCAA's fault? So moronic that this is downright hilarious.

    The kid is "just a kid doing what all kids do" right? Bunk. He's an entitled prick and has shown it by what he's done since winning the Heisman....openly spit in the face of those who have turned him into a celebrity. I don't think he understands that by violating NCAA rules (like them or not) he is flat out telling NFL teams that he is above teams and organizations and it is all about Johnny.

    Sad if you ask me. The kid is one of the most instinctive and naturally talented football players I have ever seen, but it doesn't appear that he is "all in". So be it, but don't paint this as everybody else's problem and say it is due to NCAA inequity. Without the NCAA his autograph isn't worth selling.


    What has Manziel done that is illegal? Unlawful? Nothing, right? That should tell you all you need to know. There is no other organization in sports that doesn't allow an athlete to profit of their talent. Even the Olympics allow you to profit. Even the Olympics changed those ridiculous rules. Only the NCAA continues to employ these rules.

    How has he given himself an advantage on the field? That is the definition of cheating. Has he taken PEDs? He hasn't, but continue to baselessly insult him.

    The fact is that the NCAA is such a complete fraud and so corrupt that they want to unfairly profit of the athletes, that bring in the revenue. They aren't a "non profit" organization. They are a multi billion dollar fraud of an industry, who profit of students, while not allowing students the right to profit of their own talent.

    If Manziel is just a student, like the NCAA states, then he should be able to sell his own merchandise, like any other student. It goes both ways. But that's not the case to the fraud known as the NCAA.

    There's a reason the NCAA is getting sued right now for similar reasons in California. They're a complete fraud. I wish the schools would just leave the NCAA, like Calipari proposed for college basketball.

    Without athletes like Manziel, the NCAA would be nothing. Manziel means much more to the NCAA, than the NCAA means to him. A scholarship is worth next to nothing compared to what Manziel is worth to A&M and the NCAA.

    It's pretty much indentured servitude. Sickening, but continue to defend the fraud known as the NCAA. Johnny Manziel is one of many athletes who have rightfully been disgusted by NCAA rules. It hasn't stopped many off them from having success on the next level (NFL).

    The NFL will only care about his talent. If he's good enough, then he'll succeed. They won't care about this if he turns out to be the next Kaepernick, Luck, or Russell Wilson. I don't know if he has that type of NFL ability, but his success or failure, will have nothing to do with this issue. It will be completely about his talent or lack thereof.
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  • Sharkhark and Dawgs0 are both right.

    Manziel should've followed the rules, the rules are pretty obvious in that regard.

    However, who turned Johnny Football into Johnny Football? Did he? No. The school and the media and the NCAA(who sells Johnny Football shirts) have created this celebrity out of an immature college kid(who wasn't immature in college?) and now are ripping him because he's buckling under the pressure? The media wanted another Tim Tebow.

    Given the sharklike environment that these celebrated college football players live in, its a wonder that the majority of college players end up like him.

    He's a hot tempered, spoiled kid who is an outstanding football player. Its up to the coaching staff(who have tried to protect him) and the university to help him mature and grow. Instead the school is extracting what money they can from his image and saying to hell with him.

    The kid isn't blameless in all this, but the lions share of the blame goes to the adults who have failed as parents, coaches, educators and administrators to help this kid through this insanity.
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  • Would you draft Johnny M., if your team desperately needed a QB? Let's say Jaguards ...
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  • seahawk2k wrote:Sharkhark and Dawgs0 are both right.

    Manziel should've followed the rules, the rules are pretty obvious in that regard.

    However, who turned Johnny Football into Johnny Football? Did he? No. The school and the media and the NCAA(who sells Johnny Football shirts) have created this celebrity out of an immature college kid(who wasn't immature in college?) and now are ripping him because he's buckling under the pressure? The media wanted another Tim Tebow.

    Given the sharklike environment that these celebrated college football players live in, its a wonder that the majority of college players end up like him.

    He's a hot tempered, spoiled kid who is an outstanding football player. Its up to the coaching staff(who have tried to protect him) and the university to help him mature and grow. Instead the school is extracting what money they can from his image and saying to hell with him.

    The kid isn't blameless in all this, but the lions share of the blame goes to the adults who have failed as parents, coaches, educators and administrators to help this kid through this insanity.


    I'm going to rewrite some of my previous post, because you obviously don't agree with me, but you think you do.

    The fact is that Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. What has Manziel done that is illegal? Unlawful? Nothing, right? That should tell you all you need to know. There is no other organization in sports that doesn't allow an athlete to profit of their talent. HE IS COMPLETELY BLAMELESS.

    If Manziel is just a student, like the NCAA states, then he should be able to sell his own merchandise, like any other student. It goes both ways. But that's not the case to the fraud known as the NCAA.

    Without athletes like Manziel, the NCAA would be nothing. Manziel means much more to the NCAA, than the NCAA means to him. A scholarship is worth next to nothing compared to what Manziel is worth to A&M and the NCAA.

    It's pretty much INDENTURED SERVITUDE. That's what the NCAA is doing.
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  • joeseahawks wrote:Would you draft Johnny M., if your team desperately needed a QB? Let's say Jaguards ...


    Personally, the question is on his talent and I don't know if he is talented enough to be an elite NFL qb. I doubt that he is.

    I have no other issues with him.
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  • I think you think that I think that I agree with you when in actuality I was seeing merit in both arguments and adding a point of my own.

    As far as the NFL question, I don't know if he has the frame to take the punishment, or the arm to make NFL throws. More of a great college player than an NFL player.
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  • So what you're getting at "Dawgs" is that you don't like the NCAA's rules? Fair enough, but to excuse Johnny's behavior because it's an unjust rule is really shortsighted and foolish. What he did was SELFISH. It was an ENTIRELY SELFISH ACT. He wasn't try to break down the NCAA system for the benefit of all. He was saying flat out "this never happened" and being a sneaky little bitch to make money on the side AGAINST POLICIES THAT HE AGREED TO. Nobody held a gun to his head.

    Is the NCAA stupid? Sure. They ripped a lot of us off. I lost my baseball eligibility because I chose to continue to attend classes for two years while recovering from "dead arm" surgery (thoracic outlet syndrome) and rebuilding my arm strength, but also attending on an academic scholarship and attempting to hurry up and get done so I could pursue my teaching career. But then when it came time for me to "play ball" they looked at my first college class and it was six years prior. Even though I had taken two years off to work out of high school and was injured and rehabbing after having a first rib resection, the clock continued to count and nobody wanted to sue the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility for a slick defender who hit for average and no power and wasn't likely to get drafted prior to the 335th round, so it didn't happen and my dreams just evaporated. I'm no big fan of the NCAA, or the NAIA or others. But they are there, and they have rules. You have to follow them, or take your ball and go home.

    I'm fairly certain that Johnny is aware that nobody is going to pay him big money or give him a scholarship now to watch him play catch in the street with his Dad. So he can either take the NCAA's deal or go find a better one. Want to start your own organization? By all means... go ahead.

    I was thankful in part though because the money the baseball program and basketball program brought in helped fund my scholarship that helped me to get my degree and I repay it now by belonging to my alumni group and giving money to my alma mater. I would only expect the kids to be as ethical as I was in college. I played by the rules. I did my own work. I paid my own bills. I didn't take anything on the side. But being "famous" somehow excuses you from the rules?

    Don't like the rules? Fine. Excusing Johnny as some kind of a martyr who has been done wrong and somehow he's ENTITLED to sign autographs for $7500 in a hotel room so he can "Get some new rims"? Laughable at best. So what if he didn't 'break a law'? It just shows that he's a dipstick.

    As others have said.... this is his JOB INTERVIEW for the NFL, and without the NCAA he'd have ZERO shot at the NFL (or minimal... as I said... Eric Swann is the only example I can come up with). He better play by their rules if he is going to play their game. And he isn't an "amateur" like you're claiming. Do you realize how much these kids get in scholarship dollars, room and board, food, equipment? It's mind-boggling. I have a friend that got invited to the combine and played in the Las Vegas Bowl (of all crappy bowls). He got THOUSANDS of dollars worth of freebies from Pioneer and Microsoft in a gift bag for playing in the bowl game and THOUSANDS of dollars of Nike merch throughout his college career and more at the end of the season which is entirely legal according to the NCAA. Players get to keep their jerseys, they get an allotment of shoes, they get housing, they have a special restaurant on campus that is all you can eat steaks and other things. Living the college D1 athlete life is NOT a bad tradeoff, and anybody who thinks it is just doesn't get it. The NCAA's rules may be outmoded, outdated, or unethical. They are still there, and Johnny can take his ball an go home and make a run at the NFL Maurice Clarett style, or he can play the game they require and do some GOOD for others and fight the system while staying within the rules. He only further weakens the position of those who want to change NCAA rules by what he's doing. Those who think he's showing the NCAA is wrong and players deserve to be paid are missing the boat. He's showing that the NCAA is right in restricting some things so that things like this don't take place.

    I could care less how many ass-kissing reporters who want to make a name for themselves on sportsline justify it. Hell... I just read a really well written article where highly respected Jim Caple basically excused everything A-Rod has done, and I just laughed and felt that Caple is really struggling for readers and is now regretting leaving Seattle to join ESPN, because that article was an absolute piece of litter box liner and he should not have any business writing again if he honestly BELIEVES that hackey crap he wrote. It's pathetic and he's dying for clicks. Just because some "reporters" sold out and kiss NCAA player's and pro athletes butts doesn't make their actions right. In fact.... having the media agree with you seems more of a black eye than a positive mark.

    "It's NOT illegal so it's ok" is the most flawed logic I've seen yet.
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:What don't you get? Read the CBS link and hopefully it will answer some of your questions.

    The NCAA is the problem, not Johnny football.



    I still don't get it, I believe NCAAF or Colleges should profit money from the players. And I do believe that players shouldn't be benefited, with money.
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  • Manziel has the elusiveness, feel, and intangibles of Fran Tarkenton with the personality of Brett Favre, or perhaps Kenny Stabler. I don't think there is much question that Manziel has greatness within him, the question might be if he loves football enough to commit to the game. Though in the case of Stabler, his work ethic was notoriously lacking, and he still dominated the league for a time, even getting a Super Bowl win.

    An elite feel for the game is not something you see all that often- that magical ability to just make good things happen spontaneously out of pure instinct. I would say it's the most valuable trait a QB can have, but people hardly talk about it because it's so rare that many in the media aren't even aware of it as a quality. BTW, this was the one quality that Bill Walsh put at the top of his QB evaluation. And Johnny Manziel... he oozes what Walsh called "spontaneous genius." Russell Wilson had it too. So did Tom Brady.

    I'm really curious to see how this off the field stuff effects his stock in a few years. I'm guessing some team is going to get the steal of the draft in the 3rd round one of these upcoming years.

    And if it ends up being the Rams who take a chance on Manziel... well... that's a disturbing thought.
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:What don't you get? Read the CBS link and hopefully it will answer some of your questions.

    The NCAA is the problem, not Johnny football.

    RW didn't take money in college. In fact, he gave back his baseball signing bonus, the entire thing. So, if Manziel is smart for exposing the NCAA, is Wilson stupid for not taking money in college?

    Stop being a knob slobberer.
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  • A lot of people keep defending the Rules. But the rules are written to take advantage of "Cheap" and "Free" labor.
    When these rules are written, who is sitting on the other side of the table to make sure the interests of the kids are taken into consideration? NOBODY.
    On one side of the table is the NCAA (Colleges looking to make $$$, Coaches who look to make $$$) and on the other side the TV Networks (ESPN, Fox, ... ).
    How can anyone imagine that the interests of the players are ever even considered? Their only argument is "But we are giving you scholarship" ... seriously? Does Johny M. need a scholarship? His parents can afford to pay for his whole school years. Do players who can afford to pay their way out of college get exempt from these rule?
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  • joeseahawks wrote:A lot of people keep defending the Rules. But the rules are written to take advantage of "Cheap" and "Free" labor.
    When these rules are written, who is sitting on the other side of the table to make sure the interests of the kids are taken into consideration? NOBODY.
    On one side of the table is the NCAA (Colleges looking to make $$$, Coaches who look to make $$$) and on the other side the TV Networks (ESPN, Fox, ... ).
    How can anyone imagine that the interests of the players are ever even considered? Their only argument is "But we are giving you scholarship" ... seriously? Does Johny M. need a scholarship? His parents can afford to pay for his whole school years. Do players who can afford to pay their way out of college get exempt from these rule?
    Joe

    Stop being thick. ALL of us are subject to unfair rules we have to put up with. Taxes can be unfair as hell, try not paying them and see what happens.
    Johnny wanted a scholarship. He wanted the opportunity to play college ball. He signed up and in doing so took on the rules, unfair or no. And that scholarship came with exposure to the NFL, so pretending an internship in college ball is cheap labor is bullshit.
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  • Just an opinion, but I think he's done which is a sad thing.

    JM misses out on a season, he drops in the draft, A&M fans miss a season of an outstanding college player to cheer for, college football misses an outstanding player, SEC loses an asset and marketing opportunity, and the NCAA goes on without missing a beat.
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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  • No, an internship in college ball IS cheap labor, and that's no BS.

    These schools and the NCAA make billions off of these students and what do students get? A bunch of BS restrictions on who they can sell their own damn autograph to and a worthless-ass college degree, as most of them are now that we have artificially inflated the value of college degrees to such a ridiculous point that just going out and becoming a welder can make you more money than a large amount of college degrees can.

    I mean, I enjoy college football, but let's be honest: These guys, for the eyeballs they pull in, should be making millions already (or at least hundreds of thousands) in a nationally-televised NFL D-League for players between 18 and 22.

    This NCAA rule is stupid, but what NCAA rule isn't? It's a sham of an organization. Still, I do have to agree that if the sham of an organization is your only shot at making real Eff You money, you have to know all the stupid, moronic rules that they have since they have you by the balls.
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  • What's funny is that people say ... "But, they get an education" ... how many of them graduate? Does "getting an education without graduating" count? How many get degrees, that allows them to get a J.O.B. ?
    Many leave school after 2, 3 years. Without a degree.
    Those who graduate do so in "African American History " or something like that. NO. I'm not trying to downplay "African American History", I'm AA myself and understand the value of history.
    Many are even asked to take classes, that will "keep the eligible without having to work hard" (there are plenty of examples at UNC like Julius Peppers).
    Colleges get tax payer money to educate Students, regardless ... I do pay taxes, so that students in my state, country get educated. In other countries in the world, Kids get an education without having be NFL Athletes.
    I think the NCAA, the TV Networks, the millionaire coaches and the Colleges need to sit down and think through again how they run college athletics. This is a travesty. And someone needs to say it.
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  • Dude has some legit talent, but this is becoming a ridiculous media circus. Every day some other Manziel story is floating around, and it's a shame what fame has done to this guy. He has made some dumb mistakes himself, I'm just sick of hearing about this him right now though.
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  • Smelly McUgly wrote:No, an internship in college ball IS cheap labor, and that's no BS.

    These schools and the NCAA make billions off of these students and what do students get? A bunch of BS restrictions on who they can sell their own damn autograph to and a worthless-ass college degree, as most of them are now that we have artificially inflated the value of college degrees to such a ridiculous point that just going out and becoming a welder can make you more money than a large amount of college degrees can.

    I mean, I enjoy college football, but let's be honest: These guys, for the eyeballs they pull in, should be making millions already (or at least hundreds of thousands) in a nationally-televised NFL D-League for players between 18 and 22.

    This NCAA rule is stupid, but what NCAA rule isn't? It's a sham of an organization. Still, I do have to agree that if the sham of an organization is your only shot at making real Eff You money, you have to know all the stupid, moronic rules that they have since they have you by the balls.



    I don't think anyone with a brain (or who gets nothing monetarily out of them playing) is disputing the fact the kids should get paid something more than they get. But that said, you have to figure if they get paid now you have to pay woman's sports, who are a drain on money, and men's sports who break even or are a drain like baseball and rowing. In fact outside of Football and basketball, pretty much every sport uses more money than they make. Is it fair? No, but when you sign on the dotted line you know this is the way it will be.

    When I was 18 I signed up to go and get shot at and get a chance to fight for my country, I got paid crap for a job that ensures our country's protection. Maybe instead of worrying about our entertainers, we should pay those who keep the US free.
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  • CPHawk: Though I do thank you for your service to our country, your last few lines were a non-sequitur. We are talking about football players, not the military. If you want to start a thread about how we need to fund our VA services at triple the amount that we do now and how we need to improve in mental health outreach and treatment for our vets, we can talk about that in the appropriate place (and I will be more than happy to bang the drum for your cause).

    Back to my original point: In a perfect world, the NFL would have their own D-League where we could divorce big-money athletics from the university system. Again, I love my Sun Devils, but the drain that the football team places on the university in some ways does not seem worth it. When you have coaches bullying TAs into giving their players passing grades for doing no work and college coaches making millions on the dimes of state universities, something wrong has happened. It's not that the coaches don't deserve it based on the highly-pressurized work that they are doing in a business that generates billions of dollars; it's that business is in many ways overtaking the original business of a university.

    Of course, the NFL has a farm league for free on the NCAA's behalf, so they won't move to do anything about this situation.

    Anyway, I hope Manziel isn't punished too badly. If it all comes to the worst, he should just see what a CFL team will give him to play a year for them. No, I wasn't being serious with that last part (though if I were a star basketball player, I would see about bypassing college and going to play in Europe for a year ala Brandon Jennings).
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  • If every College Sport loses money, how much money does my Chemistry department lose? How much money does my Computer Science department lose? How about the Medical Faculty?

    Seriously, aren't schools there to Educate the students?
    Why are they compared to publicly traded businesses Quarterly reports?
    Basically the K-10 Form of the Security and Exchange Commission, that publicly traded companies are required to issue, where only profits and losses are what matters?

    Joe
    Joe
    joeseahawks
    *The Prophet*
     
    Posts: 892
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  • CPHawk wrote:

    I don't think anyone with a brain (or who gets nothing monetarily out of them playing) is disputing the fact the kids should get paid something more than they get. But that said, you have to figure if they get paid now you have to pay woman's sports, who are a drain on money, and men's sports who break even or are a drain like baseball and rowing. In fact outside of Football and basketball, pretty much every sport uses more money than they make. Is it fair? No, but when you sign on the dotted line you know this is the way it will be.

    When I was 18 I signed up to go and get shot at and get a chance to fight for my country, I got paid crap for a job that ensures our country's protection. Maybe instead of worrying about our entertainers, we should pay those who keep the US free.


    I don't think the NCAA should have to pay those players. Like you said, then they would have to pay women's sports and other sports that don't make money. IMO, there are much easier and better answers.

    I just think there should be a free market, where individual players can make money off their talent outside of the NCAA. A guy like Manziel should be able to sell autographs and other things to make money. The ability to sell autographs and other things should have nothing to do with the NCAA.

    There should be a free market, where boosters can pay players and allow the players to make as much money as possible. What's wrong with that? Let the players have bidding for their services in recruiting if possible. If the NCAA weren't a fraud, they wouldn't have a problem with it.

    Since the NCAA is a big money business, the players should have the right to profit from their talent in a free market system. That's the best way to deal with it. The NCAA isn't a "non profit" like they want you to believe.

    The NCAA wouldn't have to pay players and players would make as much money as their talent would dictate. A scholarship system sucks, because a third string guy is getting the same deal as the Heisman winner. That is unfair.

    The best answer is an NFL like system where better players make money. The better players would get paid more. What's wrong with that?

    BTW, your last line is laughable. I have as much respect as possible for the military, but acting like athletes and soldiers are the same is delusional. Athletes are entertainers. Just like singers, actors, etc. That's why they need to get paid. People want to watch them perform.

    People are willing to PAY to watch them perform. Who pays to watch the military perform? When people start paying to watch the military perform, then we can start comparing them to entertainers. Since the athletes are the ones performing, then they need to get paid like any other entertainer.
    Dawgs0
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