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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:12 am 
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Insurance against Wilson missing October only, for example.

Hawks got a freebie this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:18 am 
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This team was good enough to win half the games where Wilson was handcuffed by playcalling more conservative than a Saudi girl's dress. I think if forced to, we can do the same with quite a variety of backups.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:24 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
This team was good enough to win half the games where Wilson was handcuffed by playcalling more conservative than a Saudi girl's dress. I think if forced to, we can do the same with quite a variety of backups.


Agreed.

But trading Flynn now, gains this team nothing. It risks quite a bit, but gains it zero. Yes, alot of teams have bad backup QB's, but thats because they have to. Seattle doesn't have to.

Thats why I beleive the move is all about giving Flynn a chance, nothing else. It's just a move you dont make otherwise; as I said no gain and all risk (this year).


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:30 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
This team was good enough to win half the games where Wilson was handcuffed by playcalling more conservative than a Saudi girl's dress. I think if forced to, we can do the same with quite a variety of backups.


Agreed.

But trading Flynn now, gains this team nothing. It risks quite a bit, but gains it zero. Yes, alot of teams have bad backup QB's, but thats because they have to. Seattle doesn't have to.

Thats why I beleive the move is all about giving Flynn a chance, nothing else. It's just a move you dont make otherwise; as I said no gain and all risk (this year).

Well, if they need a spare million or two to extend Kam or another player, it does free that up. It is also possible that by the time their third date with Flynn came around, they had discovered they just didn't like him as much as they had at first.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:36 am 
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Maybe JS and PC don't think the dropoff from Flynn to the guy they'd like to bring in is that great or that there's a dropoff at all. Flynn's allure is that we don't know how good he really is, not that he's some proven quality starter in this league that we happen to be lucky enough to roster as our #2. I also think draft choices and making room to extend a guy now that will also give you more room to focus on extending other guys later, etc. is worth plenty. Or if that means we can sign another guy as quality depth, the type of depth that actually sees the field, that's good, too. The idea of there being a huge risk is based off the assumption that Matt Flynn is a high quality quarterback, and perhaps the reason that 'risk' is acceptable to Pete and John is that he just plain isn't one. Maybe he makes for a decent back-up, but maybe they like some other guys for that role just as much but the slight bit of hope and mystery surrounding Flynn means he nets you draft picks. That won't be the case next year when they almost undoubtedly would be just cutting him.

I still feel like that somewhere in all of the noise, hoopla, and excitement of Russell Wilson breaking out, what some hoped Flynn would be transformed into what people believed he definitely was.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:41 am 
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I dont think Flynn is a quality QB, by any means. He's Kitna, McCoy, Grossman (trolling....). He is however an average QB who goes 3-1 on a strong team. I'm pretty confident in that.

I just dont believe the Hawks would entertain it unless they were giving Flynn a Valentine. Hell, the deal with the Raiders is so screwy how can you not deduce it's a simple gesture to Flynn?


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:06 am 
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Maybe the Hawks are wanting to be shed of this backup's enthusiasm?
http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/Week-13---Carroll-Postgame-Locker-Room-Speech/5df7881d-aadf-45b5-ad7a-ba5043ef1426

That was after the best win of the year to date, on the road in Chicago. We all knew Wilson was special, but that was the game where the rest of the nation really figured out how awesome Wilson is. Flynn looked like somebody pooped in his mouth.

Cardinal sin in Seattle is not buying in. Cap hit be damned, hit the road Houshmanzadeh style. Does Flynn look bought in? From the phantom elbow injury in pre-season to stuff like this, there was a disenfranchised vibe from Flynn lots of times last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:08 am 
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Agreed, Scott(e). I did get the pouty vibe at times too. Be careful though, it makes you an easy target around here.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:09 am 
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As Pinskeets noted, the chances are they feel like there are other backups they believe can also go 3-1 but at a much lower cost for a guy who may never see the field. Plus they can also generate further picks from moving Flynn.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Flynn looked like somebody pooped in his mouth.

It must've been Russell 'The separation is in the defecation' Wilson.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:18 am 
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If (big "IF" IMHO) we are planning or willing to move Flynn, his value will peak at two times. Right now, leading up to the draft and during draft week, when teams start wanting more and better picks, and August as teams account for training camp injuries and such. Thus the increased chatter about him.

I disagree that the idea of trading Flynn will net us "nothing." I do think that it is far from a necessity. For the right deal, he'll be gone.

I also think that the FO is trying to allow Flynn to get to a better personal situation with a shot at a starting gig, but without hurting the team. They're classy, but not stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:43 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:

But it's going to be hilarious in here if Wilson does get hurt and all the "we should have kept Flynn!" madness begins.


That stuff will only come from the people who thought Flynn was starting material in the first place. I think that if we kept Flynn and Wilson went down for an extended stretch, that we're just as screwed in that scenario as we would be with Tyler Thigpen or Terrell Pryor or some other journeyman as our backup.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:48 am 
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Ill reserve judgement until the compensation is released. If its picks next year, then its a situation where the Hawks are truly getting nothing out of it, now. And their moves are about winning it all in 2013 (to start).


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:48 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Agreed, Scott(e). I did get the pouty vibe at times too. Be careful though, it makes you an easy target around here.


Whatevs. How bout that pony keg Flynn is packing in that video? 13 games into the season and our backup looks like he has been working only on getting his handicap down to single digits.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Damn you guys act like he's smalls (a sandlot reference) or somebody getting picked last he can play and i think if he needed to play with the weapons around him our team could win he knows the system and i take our talent over GB's he did ok with them. I don't know anything about his affect on the locker room dynamic but if he has'nt checked out he pushes Wilson with some in house competition more than a rookie QB would. He's also in the NFL record books so i think he is more valuable than a 6th or 7th.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 am 
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He's not in the NFL record books, he is in the Green Bay record books in a tie with Aaron Rodgers for a six-TD game.

I really, really, really wish he'd never had that game. It's clouded a lot of judgement on him.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:45 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
FlyingGreg wrote:

But it's going to be hilarious in here if Wilson does get hurt and all the "we should have kept Flynn!" madness begins.


That stuff will only come from the people who thought Flynn was starting material in the first place. I think that if we kept Flynn and Wilson went down for an extended stretch, that we're just as screwed in that scenario as we would be with Tyler Thigpen or Terrell Pryor or some other journeyman as our backup.


I'm with you. I would not be any more confident with Flynn out there than any other backup, unless they bring in Ryan Lindley.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:00 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
He's not in the NFL record books, he is in the Green Bay record books in a tie with Aaron Rodgers for a six-TD game.

I really, really, really wish he'd never had that game. It's clouded a lot of judgement on him.


There's no arguing that Flynn didn't get the job done in that game but his stats were certainly helped by an extraordinary performance by Jordy Nelson and a woeful Lions secondary. There was nothing that stood out about Flynn's game in terms of excitement or unusual talent but he did show poise and the ability to carry out the plan efficiently and effectively.

If the Seahawks weren't needing to lock up some important starters to long term contracts I think Flynn has shown the skills that make him a solid back up and someone who would be worth keeping around. However, that's not the situation so we need someone with no cap hit.

And at risk of being the kiss of death, I trust Wilson to avoid injury from contact more than I would any other starter in the league. He just doesn't take that many big hits either in the pocket or down the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:33 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
He's not in the NFL record books, he is in the Green Bay record books in a tie with Aaron Rodgers for a six-TD game.

I really, really, really wish he'd never had that game. It's clouded a lot of judgement on him.


Well the Packers are an NFL team it is'nt a Div.2 record or somthing he did it against an NFL team but i bet that game helped get a lil more out of the deal. I would hope sense their taking future picks that the raiders would give up a 3rd or 4th next year plus a future pick in 2014 and next year the Raiders could be picking 1st overall so i don't think its bad better than a late rounder this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:22 am 
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Lynch Mob wrote:
Well the Packers are an NFL team it is'nt a Div.2 record or somthing he did it against an NFL team but i bet that game helped get a lil more out of the deal. I would hope sense their taking future picks that the raiders would give up a 3rd or 4th next year plus a future pick in 2014 and next year the Raiders could be picking 1st overall so i don't think its bad better than a late rounder this year.



It's a 5th in 2014 and a conditional pick in 2015.

He was a free agent last year and his market was ice cold. And the best he generated this year was a 5th rounder.

Speaks volumes about his upside and what the league thinks of that game against Detroit in the context of a backup's career.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:25 am 
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Could you imagine English's feelings on Kitna?


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:24 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Could you imagine English's feelings on Kitna?


Or Dave Kreig or Jim Zorn for that matter, Zorn hidden in the depth Chart at Dallas, Kreig from Milton college, of and Hass from BC at I think a low level pick. So given that we would never had had any QB's that did anything in the history of this franchise for any length of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:14 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
I really, really, really wish he'd never had that game. It's clouded a lot of judgement on him.


Look on the bright side: after today, we don't have to rehash or pick that game apart any longer.

In fact, maybe today would be the perfect day to just hit the pub and unplug for 24 hours. Just get away from the ever important back up QB debate for just a little while.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:19 am 
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chris98251 wrote:
pehawk wrote:
Could you imagine English's feelings on Kitna?


Or Dave Kreig or Jim Zorn for that matter, Zorn hidden in the depth Chart at Dallas, Kreig from Milton college, of and Hass from BC at I think a low level pick. So given that we would never had had any QB's that did anything in the history of this franchise for any length of time.


Yes because that's how it works isn't it?

I don't rate Flynn, so therefore would automatically share the same opinion about three other completely unrelated quarterbacks.

Derrrrrr.........


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:12 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
pehawk wrote:
Could you imagine English's feelings on Kitna?


Or Dave Kreig or Jim Zorn for that matter, Zorn hidden in the depth Chart at Dallas, Kreig from Milton college, of and Hass from BC at I think a low level pick. So given that we would never had had any QB's that did anything in the history of this franchise for any length of time.


Yes because that's how it works isn't it?

I don't rate Flynn, so therefore would automatically share the same opinion about three other completely unrelated quarterbacks.

Derrrrrr.........


Quite being a girl. It's fair...beyond fair really.

Kreig played for a bankrupt school, UDFA. Zorn, a Hoops school. Kitna, a place 2 hours out of Seattle where I would occasionally drive becuase I could sleep with any woman there due to my supplies(pathetice lil school) . The first and last we're below average size and armed.

You may've liked Zorn. He's Josh Johnson...but with way more smarts.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:17 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Flushing a season if your starter gets injured is a defeatist attitude, there is a reason GB had guys behind the starters that could play the game, Brunell, Hass, Brooks, to name a couple, they don't have to be elite but they need to have the respect of a defense.



Do you know what Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks and Hass all have in common?

They were all traded away for draft picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Better make it count
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Just to help clear up some financial misconceptions a few people have, trading Flynn saved Seattle $5.25 million total cap space compared to keeping him for one more year ($3.25 million this year plus $2 million next year). We also got two draft picks, which IMO matters just as much as the money. And also, those savings will roll over into future seasons, so it's hardly a meaningless transaction. Far from it.

I'm more bullish on Flynn than many other trade supporters, but I still feel this is an acceptable risk with a good reward. Seattle badly needs to gain cap space for next season and they are always looking for ways to add future picks. The odds of actually needing Flynn to save our 2013 season are remote. And even if Flynn were to make a difference in 2013, who's to say his replacement might not be so capable? If we get Tyler Wilson in the 4th round for example, I'd consider the position upgraded.


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