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 Post subject: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:23 pm 
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http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/130794/matt-barkley

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NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes USC QB Matt Barkley is a fourth-round talent.
"Number one, he has average arm strength by NFL standards. Number two, his feet are not particularly quick, he has slower feet. And three, he's a little shorter," Cosell said. "So then I go beyond that and think, 'OK, how can he be successful in the NFL when you got certain limitations?' And I think those limitations are the things I notice immediately and it's very difficult for me to look at him as a first- or second-round pick given those limitations and given what I know works effectively in the NFL."


I never really bought into the Cosell love. Though technically versed and someone who understands the game better than most, he just doesn't have any talent or vision as an evaluator. He's okay at breaking down a game and telling you what happened, but not so great at seeing the forest for the trees in the draft process.

I wonder if he is saying this about Barkley after 2011?

Also, Cosell said that EJ Manuel was the only read option QB in this draft. Didn't think Geno Smith was one, and didn't mention Matt Scott. So there's that too. Though to be fair, Mayock made that mistake too.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:28 pm 
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Week 4 this year.

Colin Cowherd: What does the tape say about Russell Wilson.
Greg Cosell: Russell's height is definitely a problem...

You go Greg...keep dropping that knowledge on us...


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Cosell has developed a cult-like following that I've never 'got'.

Several notable things happen at this time of year:

- Twitter breaks out into endless mock drafts that nobody cares about apart from the individuals taking part. To them, it's the world. To us, it's a clogged up timeline.

- The NFL network invites people like Brian Baldinger and Jamie Dukes to pass comment on the draft.

- Greg Cosell starts talking about the draft, and everyone must bow down and kiss the soles of his feet.

I've nothing personal against the guy, but it seems like every year he's built up as some draft 'sage'. Last year he published a mock with Janoris Jenkins in the top ten and everyone praised how edgy he was. The fact is, Jenkins was never ever in a million years going to go in the top ten. The justification was -- this was a 'different type of mock'... Greg was doing things differently... and his talent was worthy of the grade. Well, yeah. We all know that. He was sensational for Florida. But the reason he's not in the first round was never about talent. It was about being kicked off the Gators team and having to play for North Alabama because he was a complete nightmare in terms of character. Cosell's mock wasn't edgy. It was just wrong.

Now Barkley is a 4th round pick, which makes him a round worse than Nick Foles, three rounds worse than Christian Ponder and only a round superior to John Skelton. Right. And the reasons are average (not bad) arm strength, the lack of quick feet (Brady?) and the best of the bunch, he's supposedly 'a little shorter' (Barkley's nearly 6-3, so basically around 3-4 inches taller than Russell Wilson).

Those three things determine a fourth round grade according to Cosell.

Sorry, but that is tossed off nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:44 pm 
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That cracked me up! Dude must have industrial disease! Those are the kind of things I expect out of NFP. :)

Janoris also has multiple kids by different mothers which will cause him off-field issues and just give him 1 successful year when he gets close to a new contract, and all hell will break loose! He will want tons of money, his baby mamas will want tons of that money, and the chit will hit the fan.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:54 pm 
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I've never been a Cosell fan.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:18 pm 
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I read this and groaned. How quickly they forget. The year after Mr intangible made them look like dipshits, they say nearly the exact same things about the guy in the draft with the best intangibles.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:28 pm 
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So, he's short and slow.

Hey wait a sec, I've heard that about Barkley on her before...

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Why does everyone on here like Barkley so much? I wouldn't touch him in the draft no matter what, he is a career backup at best that is being pushed into the top 10, mark Sanchez 2.0


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:15 pm 
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I kind of like Brian Baldinger for some reason. He physically looks like a stupid person, but I rarely hear him saying anything flagrantly stupid and he seems very likable. He also has busted fingers from his playing days. I can't help but stare at them. So he's got that going for him too.

seahawks875 wrote:
Why does everyone on here like Barkley so much? I wouldn't touch him in the draft no matter what, he is a career backup at best that is being pushed into the top 10, mark Sanchez 2.0


I liked Sanchez and was very slow to give up on him, so I have no room to debate. That said, I think they are very different prospects. Most especially in the experience and intangibles area.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:22 pm 
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I think that I agree with kearly. Cosell is very good at evaluating plays, but sometimes I find myself not agreeing with his evaluation of players.

I think that Cosell has great insights on what players need to do in their positions to be NFL-level players (for example, his discussion of a QB needing to make "stick throws"), but then I'm not sure that he applies those insights to the actual tape very consistently well.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:50 pm 
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seahawks875 wrote:
Why does everyone on here like Barkley so much? I wouldn't touch him in the draft no matter what, he is a career backup at best that is being pushed into the top 10, mark Sanchez 2.0

I have no idea whether Matt will succeed or not, but in my opinion claiming he's Sanchez 2.0 is lazy analysis.

One of Mark's biggest issues is that he's too emotional, so when he throws a pick or something else goes wrong, he has a tough time letting it go and moving on to the next play. Matt is much more even keeled.

Another difference is experience as a starter. Matt has been the starter for the last eight years of his life, going back to his freshman year of high school. Mark started for two or three years in high school and only sixteen games at USC.

Finally, while Mark didn't have the quality of wide receivers to throw to that Matt has had, overall he played on much better teams and wasn't relied on to carry the team nearly as much.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:59 pm 
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I tried to tell you man!!!

I do think Cosell is selling him short though. I think he'll be a fine QB, and i'd take him low first or high 2nd. Don't think he's going to be as good as Luck, Griffin or Wilson though. We shall see.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:16 pm 
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I think that Matt is going to be a success. I really don't want to see him in Arizona. I like the way he carries himself in interviews that I've seen. The height thing is ridiculous. I rolled my eyes when I read that.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:19 pm 
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I think Barkley deserves to be a top 5 pick. That said, he's an enabler at QB, not a superstar. RG3 and Cam Newton can carry an offense, but guys like Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan need weapons and pass protection to be their best. I think Matt Barkley is in that second category- put him in a good situation on offense and he will thrive more than most, put him in a bad situation and he'll struggle. Almost like Shaun Alexander the QB.

Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford were top 5 picks themselves, and their teams are hardly second guessing those decisions. I think Barkley is screwed in Arizona. It's too bad that KC doesn't want him, probably since Andy Reid has typically valued mobility (though not always- see Kolb and Foles).


Last edited by kearly on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:25 pm 
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kearly wrote:
I think Barkley deserves to be a top 5 pick. That said, he's an enabler at QB, not a superstar. RG3 and Cam Newton can carry an offense, but guys like Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan need weapons and pass protection to be their best. I think Matt Barkley is in that second category- put him in a good situation on offense and he will thrive more than most, put him in a bad situation and he'll struggle. Almost like Shaun Alexander the QB.


I can agree with that. Although personally i think his ceiling is just a skosh lower then Ryan or Stafford. My prediction is that he'll be in the Matt Schaub/Andy Dalton/Sam Bradford area where he's good enough to be a starter but not necessarily a star.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:28 pm 
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kearly wrote:

Just curious J, if Barkley had come out last year, what would you have said about his draft stock then? I seem to remember you being extremely high on him.


I always thought Luck was "The one". To me he was the best product to come along in a decade. Wilson and Griffin were a toss up for my 2nd favorite. I knew Griffin was an amazing athlete but didnt think he would be the quarterback that he is. I knew Wilson would be great if he was given a chance, scared the hell out of me facing him in the Rose Bowl. I was higher on Barkley last year then I am this year, but even then I didnt think he was going to be a superstar, but after last yaer i probably would have said top 10 pick.

I do think he regressed a little bit this past year. Lots of bonehead interceptions and poor decisions, although some of that may have been just trying to force the ball to Marquise Lee as I believe Kiffin's main goal this past year became trying to win a Heisman for Lee more then it was to win games.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:28 pm 
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(I always forget how quickly you reply.)

I think Barkley will be better than Luck if he goes to a decent franchise. I've always thought Barkley was the better QB of the two. I've already compared him to two Matt's, but I'll compare him to two more, Matt Hasselbeck and Matt Flynn. I think those QBs are what Barkley's downside looks like, and both are "winners" with an excellent grasp on the little things that get overlooked.

In fact, if I had to say there is one QB comp that really nails it- it's Hasselbeck. Great leader, fun personality, smart, technically very impressive, similar size and athleticism, very good in the right situation but might struggle with a weaker supporting cast, and both make the occasional "wtf!" decisions. Both are pure WCO QBs. Both have similar arm strength.

Obviously I think Wilson is FAR better, but in an alternate universe where Seattle is trading up and drafting Matt Barkley this year, I could see us winning Superbowls with him. Really, what Barkley needs is to go to a team just like Seattle.


Last edited by kearly on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:32 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
kearly wrote:
Just curious J, if Barkley had come out last year, what would you have said about his draft stock then? I seem to remember you being extremely high on him.


I always thought Luck was "The one". To me he was the best product to come along in a decade. Wilson and Griffin were a toss up for my 2nd favorite. I knew Griffin was an amazing athlete but didnt think he would be the quarterback that he is. I knew Wilson would be great if he was given a chance. I was higher on Barkley last year then I am this year, but even then I didnt think he was going to be a superstar.


I thought Wilson was clearly the best on tape of the three. Not even remotely close. I thought Luck was deserving to go #1 based on how safe of a pick he was, but I always thought his hype and upside were overblown. He reminded me of Big Ben. Big Ben is a very good QB, but hardly a generational talent.

RG3 was a QB I really liked for his intangibles. Smart, hard working, outstanding trajectory. He was still very undeveloped, had a body type that screamed injury magnet and had an alarming injury history in college. He also had a Jake Locker type draft vault from not being an NFL QB to being one of the best prospects ever in a 12 month period, and that always makes me suspicious. I had a top 10 grade on him, but was cautiously pessimistic. I guess I should have banked on his intangibles and intelligence more.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:18 am 
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kearly wrote:
I kind of like Brian Baldinger for some reason.


I was due to interview him before the season started as part of the day job, and there'd been 'an issue' getting him from the hotel to the studio. I imagined at the time he was still in bed, having mashed the alarm clock at 10am for an extra couple of hours sleep.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:54 am 
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Trending: Disliking Greg Cosell.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:05 am 
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Wait - 6'3" is now SHORT?

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:49 am 
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Matt Barkley looks like Matt Hasselbeck

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:59 am 
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It seems like some games Barkley looks pretty bad but then he has monster games from time to time (Last season against Oregon) that make me think he could be a great QB. I think he is much better than a 4th round QB, not sure where he is getting picked but from 1st to early 2nd round pick wouldn't surprise me. Him falling to the late 3rd or 4th round would surprise me.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Apparently Matt first hurt his shoulder earlier in the season (I think in the Stanford game, when he sometimes had less than a second or two before a guy was in his face), which probably accounts for some of his inconsistency last year.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:48 pm 
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I looked back at last year... Cosell said Ryan Lindley was "the most intriguing" quarterback in the 2012 draft and made more "wow" throws than any other player (including Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Tannehill etc).

Cosell's comparison for Wilson going into the draft was Seneca Wallace.

And this year despite giving Barkley a fourth round grade, he's praised Zac Dysert and Matt Scott. In fact he compared Scott to Wilson. Which is kind of funny given how much he didn't seem to like Wilson last year.

If you want to see the video where the Barkley quotes come from, this is it: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap ... -overrated

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:24 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
In fact he compared Scott to Wilson. Which is kind of funny given how much he didn't seem to like Wilson last year.


Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. Although really, I think Matt Scott actually reminds me of a more injury prone, less developed Aaron Rodgers. Very similar talent for extending plays with his feet, keeping his eyes downfield, and taking the cheap yards with his feet when they are presented.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:30 am 
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I actually think Scott has a really good skill set. He needs to bulk up though.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:34 am 
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sc85sis wrote:
I actually think Scott has a really good skill set. He needs to bulk up though.

He did. He rportedly is 20 pounds heavier than he played last season.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:37 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
sc85sis wrote:
I actually think Scott has a really good skill set. He needs to bulk up though.

He did. He rportedly is 20 pounds heavier than he played last season.

That's good because he was rather twiggy. If those 20 pounds are muscle and he keeps them on, he'll have a much better chance of staying healthy.

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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
sc85sis wrote:
I actually think Scott has a really good skill set. He needs to bulk up though.

He did. He rportedly is 20 pounds heavier than he played last season.


Man, Keith Price needs to find out who Scott's trainer was and hire him immediately. Marcus Mariota too.


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 Post subject: Re: and... there goes my respect for Greg Cosell
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:37 pm 
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SeahawksFanForever wrote:
Matt Barkley looks like Matt Hasselbeck


He looks like jimmy clausen.


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